Calling minitwin racers - suspension

[Blue_SV650S]

Hi my bike is a curvy SVS, it is a road bike but the previous owner used it as a trackbike (but in road trim).

The previous owner got the forks modified, according to the receipts (looked at them for the first time tonight!! :D) it has the following fitted:-
Race Tech FEGV-S3801 emulators.
HPX20 fork oil. I presume that is 20w?
Racetech springs (85kg rider).

I am using it primarily as a road bike and to be honest feel the front is far too hard for the road (bounces horribly over bumps where the suspension isn’t ‘tracking’ the road), I am thinking of putting 15w oil in it, perhaps even 10w. Is that ok with the emulators? What weight oil do you racers run with the above Racetech emulators? (I hear 20w is common?).

The rear shock looks to still be standard. What race shock is recommended? And does any other bike shock fit? (widening my chances of finding a 2nd hand example). Personally I am an Ohlins man, but according to the Ohlins website the curvy svs doesn’t list a shock .. strangely the naked SV does, go figure!!! The pic shows it with eyelets top and bottom, I think my bike is eyelet top, fork bottom? Naff pic, or is the naked running a different shock to the SVS?

p.s. I am asking racers as I intend to take it along to a trackday soon and want to get the ‘spension sorted prior.

[Robw#70]

What weight springs are fitted? or are they .85 Racetech, if so they'll be FRSP-S353485.
Who did the forks?
I ran .80 springs and 15w oil (Putoline HPX) for 11.5st rider, a little soft for some but suited my riding.
The weight of oil is dependant on the spring and emulator setting

The emulators can be a little harsh for road use at lower speeds they tend to be a bit 'clunky' which is more an irretance the a problem as they work very well at higher speeds.

As for rear shock, there is only one Ohlins that fits all curvy models and is a good unit, easy to setup and fairly hassle free, Hyperpro's work well and do two models £300 and £500, the cheaper is an emulsion unit with less adjustment but works well for its price, the dearer is a high and low speed race unit which can be ordered with various options like ti nitrided shaft etc (at a cost).
Penske are v good but a bit tricky to setup fully without tracktime and more expensive

[Blue_SV650S]

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Hi (again ;) ).

The documentation doesn’t say the exact springs, just that they were race tech for a 85kg rider . Looking at racetech website 3485s look likely.

The forks seem too solid at slow yeah, but even at fast (talking road still here, so not fast fast ;)!!) they are still too solid and have the front all over the shot on bumpy roads, most disconcerting and limiting. It is cold out and with 20w oil and road riding I doubt I am getting the oil that hot to thin it? So at 20w it will be like trickle!! I need to replace the seals (hooking too many mingers no doubt, my bad??! :D) so a good opportunity to change the oil too. I’ll go for 15w if that is what you recommend.

The receipt for the fork work is from RPM R.A.W performance motorsport. Personally I have never heard of them, but not that that makes much difference!?!?!

What model number is the ohlins rear shock for the curvy SVS? Ohlins say 46 HRCL for the naked, but like I said it ‘looks’ wrong.

[johnnyrod]

I don't know which emulators I've got but they're the ones that go with the standard damper rods (not the Traxxion kit). You need to check the setting of them, they may be wound in too far. I weigh a mere 65kg/10 stone and have them set at 3 turns in, 20W oil, standard air gap, Progressive springs, sag set right. I don't find any problems - they are a load better than standard at any speed, I'm surprised Rob's had trouble. Check all the settings, that may be all that's wrong.

I have an Ohlins rear (curvy), ring Harris or one of the dealers. I think Steve Jordan are doing a special price on these at the moment. The standard spring is good for up to 15 stone/90kg-ish, above that you'll need to ask for the right spring for your weight.

[Mike1234]

The receipt for the fork work is from RPM R.A.W performance motorsport. Personally I have never heard of them, but not that that makes much difference!?!?!

That'll be Robw#70 who built them then :D

[Blue_SV650S]

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Hiya, I am about 80-82kg (depending on pies consumed :D ) … Bearing in mind the emulators are at the bottom of the forks, you have to take the forks apart to see what the setting is right? A bit of a pain, but like I said, I need new seals, so will be in there soon anyway :) What static sag do you use then? Also someone said that the emulators only effect compression damping, the rebound is oil viscosity. Bearing in mind I want to soften the compression damping, surely I would need to do a setting AND oil viscosity change to avoid ‘pump down’?! What is the ratio of oil viscosity and adjustment?! i.e. presumably if 3 clicks is 20w, would going one click in (harder) mean I would need say 25w or 22.5w oil etc etc??

I was wanting to find a 2nd hand shock really, any idea what model number your shock is?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

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Hiya, I am about 80-82kg (depending on pies consumed :D ) … Bearing in mind the emulators are at the bottom of the forks, you have to take the forks apart to see what the setting is right? A bit of a pain, but like I said, I need new seals, so will be in there soon anyway :) What static sag do you use then? Also someone said that the emulators only effect compression damping, the rebound is oil viscosity. Bearing in mind I want to soften the compression damping, surely I would need to do a setting AND oil viscosity change to avoid ‘pump down’?! What is the ratio of oil viscosity and adjustment?! i.e. presumably if 3 clicks is 20w, would going one click in (harder) mean I would need say 25w or 22.5w oil etc etc??

I was wanting to find a 2nd hand shock really, any idea what model number your shock is?

It's true that the adjustability you get with emulators only affects compression damping. However, if you speak to the right people they'll advise you on what settings to choose including emulator settings, oil weight and air gap.

Rider sag remains the same, for which you want to aim for around a 3rd of available suspension travel used when you're sitting on the bike in your gear.

Remember, even though you cant easily make adjustments when fitted, correctly setup emulators wont simply allowed you to adjust the suspension more finely, they will improve the quality of the ride full stop :thumbsup:

[chunkytfg]

The receipt for the fork work is from RPM R.A.W performance motorsport. Personally I have never heard of them, but not that that makes much difference!?!?!

That'll be Robw#70 who built them then :D

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Robw#70]

That'll be me then :lol:

They'll be Racetech springs and a bit stiff for road/track use.

You have PM

[Robw#70]

I weigh a mere 65kg/10 stone and have them set at 3 turns in, 20W oil, standard air gap, Progressive springs, sag set right. I don't find any problems - they are a load better than standard at any speed.
I dont like running progressive springs with adjustable valving, Ideal when damping is inefficient as the variable spring rate makes up where the damping lacks.
But with adjustable valving you cannot match the damping to the spring rate

I'm surprised Rob's had trouble. Trouble with what??I have an Ohlins rear (curvy), ring Harris or one of the dealers. I think Steve Jordan are doing a special price on these at the moment. The standard spring is good for up to 15 stone/90kg-ish, above that you'll need to ask for the right spring for your weight.

[Blue_SV650S]

That'll be me then :lol:

They'll be Racetech springs and a bit stiff for road/track use.

You have PM

Reply sent :) and to reiterate what I said in the PM:-

I don’t think there is anything ‘wrong’ I just need to set them up to my preference. Which bearing in mind it is predominately a road bike (for me) is much softer than what they are now! Even on track I prefer to run a softer setting than most, so even when I do a trackday softer is likely to be where I want it.

[johnnyrod]

In no particular order...

Rob - got the springs from JHS, now have learned that linear ones would have been better, not yet done anything about it. "Trouble" - you said you found the emulators harsh for road use, not what I found, just giving my opinion. I thought the comp damping was a load better than stock on lumpy roads.

Yes you have to pull the emulators out to adjust them, get one of those long reach tools for things dropped down the back of the fridge (like in Total Recall) and you can get them out just by removing the fork tops and springs. Comp damping depends on oil thickness and emulator setting together (no idea of ratio), rebound damping by oil thickness only. I'd say use 20W oil and try 2 turns on the emulators, especially if you like it on the soft side. Set the preload right, this alone can make it feel too hard even if the damping is set right. Set preload to 20-25mm at the front (sag from fully extended) with the rider on the bike. I was told to set it without the rider (by Ohlins) but I can't remember the amount of sag, and this seems to be a contentious point as well. Doesn't matter, 20-25mm with rider is close enough for a start. A third of travel would be about 42mm which is too much.

Don't know what part number is of the shock I'm afraid, I just went to Harris and handed the cash over. Type is 46HRCL I think but this doesn't tell you anything specific to the SV.

[northwind]

The Ohlins for the SV does the job rather nicely, but as you say not exactly common used. I bagged mine for £200 ;) If you can find a competetively priced Penske they're regarded with awe and religious fervour by most of teh US guys ;) But they're not so common over here so they tend to be expensive.

[Blue_SV650S]

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Cool, so I can get the emulators out with a long rod and magnet?? that woluld save a lot of hassle!!!

Bearing in mind there is no official preload adjustment on a curvy, how do I go about setting the static sag? Do you insert/remove washers or cut a bit of pipe to size and place under the caps or something?

[Blue_SV650S]

The Ohlins for the SV does the job rather nicely, but as you say not exactly common used. I bagged mine for £200 ;) If you can find a competetively priced Penske they're regarded with awe and religious fervour by most of teh US guys ;) But they're not so common over here so they tend to be expensive.

Do you know what Pensake model number I am looking for??

Do shocks from other bikes fit? Seen ones for bandits, GSXRs etc.

[northwind]

There's more to it than physically fitting, you might find differences in valving and spring rate too. Though you might not ;) I don'tknow part numbers etc tbh, I stopped looking after I got my own sorted.

[Robw#70]

Rob - got the springs from JHS, now have learned that linear ones would have been better, not yet done anything about it. "Trouble" - you said you found the emulators harsh for road use, not what I found, just giving my opinion. I thought the comp damping was a load better than stock on lumpy roads.


Just found that to get a good setup for fast road/trackday(not just sv's) it looses the plush ride a bit at around 50mph and below, especially with emulators as the spring preload on the emulator only adjusts the 'start' rate of the compression damping, over 2 1/2 turns this is noticeable at low speed (your progressive springs help to reduce this btw), the compression damping itself is dictated by the weight of the spring (on the emulator) and the weight of oil used.

:P

[johnnyrod]

Could be why I've not noticed any probs then - also I like it fairly soft so maybe this has helped out there too. To go much further I think it would be worth going the cartridge way of Northwind/SVRacer using GSXR bits.

For pulling out the emulators - not tried a magnet, the grabber I have has claws, operates a bit like a camera cable release.

You can retrofit the adjuster fork tops from the 2000 (?) onwards curvy, these can be bought from JHS or other people too. You need the adjuster tops, and a shim (big washer) to go between the adjuster and spacer tube. The spacer tube will need cutting down by an appropriate amount as the adjuster caps are longer. You can set preload by cutting the spacer tube only but this is a bit crude, particularly if like me you have progressive springs where you need to twiddle a lot to get it right.