Remembering the Dead

[tricky]

Yesterday was the 8th aniversary of my Dads death, I was suposed to be taking my Mum to the Garden of Rememberence at the Cremetorium where his ashes are interned. She changed her mind at the last moment as it was too upsetting, I was greatly relived at this as I really hate that place, and find it tremendously upsetting also. Instead we had a family meal and remembered my Dad that way, not that I could ever forget him.

This led me to think about the way that we think about life and death, when I go to the Cremetoreum, all I can think about is him being ill, dying and his funeral. These are aspects of his life that I don't want to be reminded of, I want to remember his life not his death.

So why do we visit graves or "gardens of rememberence" as the people we love, if we are really honest, are not there ?

Sorry for a such a depressing post

[mysteryjimbo]

To me, the final resting place of someones physical remains are irrelevant.

Theres no better way to remember loved ones than to spend a happy evening with people talking about the good times. Can't beat a good Wake.

[Anonymous]

Good thread. Certainly something i ponder over on a few occasions.

The most recent occasion being last september which was the 1 year anniversary of my mate Colins death. We'd all arranged to go back to the scene and lay some flowers to remember him. By the time the anniverasary had come, i'd completely gotten over the horrors of that night (i still miss colin massively, but the hurt and anger and flashbacks had stopped). Getting out of the car and walking back to the scene however was incredibly hard.

It was as if i was there again, on the night. When i got back home i broke down. Even the next day, i was a mess - had to leave work as i was just staring into space, having constant flash backs to what i'd seen over 12 months prior.

I decided then that i would not be going back this year, as it seems that everytime you get over it, going back to the scene is like taking a step backwards. I dont want to forget, and im sure to god i never will. But i cant keep putting myself through the pain and angish.

Its certainly the one issue which changes me. Im a very confident, self assured person, dont take prisoners and dont suffer fools lightly - however when dealing with death, especially when its anniversaries, it changes me into a sentimental wreck.

Even though im not religious, and i know that Colin's body isnt at the scene (he was cremated so there is no head stone to lay flowers at) it still feels as though i should go there and lay flowers or to spend a few mins with "him". Why do i feel this way? I think it provides a certain closeness with the person who is no longer with us. But at the same time it is often a terribly heart wrenching occasion.

Death, for sure is one issue in life which has the most strange effects on people. You never really know how you're going to react around it, until you are exposed to it.

Sorry to hear of your dads death Tricky. I've got that to come yet, im dreading it as i finally get on so well with him after years of constant arguing. When i think of the years we wasted locked in bitter feuding... i wish i could go back and do things completely differently. :cry:

[cuffy]

Can't beat a good Wake.Totally agree, we got wasted at our uncles funeral,it was our cousins wishes that nobody got upset but we celebrated his life the way he wouldve wanted us too, so we did...we got pi$$ed as handcarts :D

I told the missus if i go early i want my funeral to be fancy dress, anyone whos not dressed up wont be allowed in the crematorium :thumbsup:

Sorry too hear about your loss tricky...just remember the good times you had together :wink: chin up my friend

[Jelster]

I still have severe problems dealing with the loss of my Mum, almost 20 years ago now. I don't know why, but it left me an emotional wreck for a few years, and even now I can get very emotional over some of the silliest of things.

When my Dad died we had him cremated at the same place and they have a small plot next to each other. I haven't been to the crematorium for some years, I feel guilty but I find it hard to deal with. It's not a nice feeling at all.....

.

[mysteryjimbo]

I still have severe problems dealing with the loss of my Mum, almost 20 years ago now. I don't know why, but it left me an emotional wreck for a few years, and even now I can get very emotional over some of the silliest of things.
.

I have had a similar time of it when it comes to my dads death. I never really knew him as well as i should because of my parents divorce and think thats part of the problem. Not having the chance to get to know him now that i'm older.

So, partially in tribute i've started to learn the guitar as music was his life and he was an accomplished bass player in many bands. I try to remember him now in that way.

[tricky]

I haven't been to the crematorium for some years, I feel guilty but I find it hard to deal with. It's not a nice feeling at all.....

I wouldn't feel guilty about this at all, all of the crematoriums I have ever been to have been pretty grim places. Although your parents ashes are physicaly there, they themselves are not.

I feel more a sense of my Dad "being there" at my Mums house when I look at the beautiful brick fireplace he built, or when I use his old woodworking tools.

I know this sounds completely wet but he still in my memories and my heart.

I still dream about him quite often and talk to him. It sounds wierd and spooky but when I talk to him in my dreams he's aware that he's no longer with us.
The first time this happened it freaked me out but now I'm ok with it because in some very strange way he's still with me.

[Anonymous]

I haven't been to the crematorium for some years, I feel guilty but I find it hard to deal with. It's not a nice feeling at all.....

I wouldn't feel guilty about this at all, all of the crematoriums I have ever been to have been pretty grim places. Although your parents ashes are physicaly there, they themselves are not.

I feel more a sense of my Dad "being there" at my Mums house when I look at the beautiful brick fireplace he built, or when I use his old woodworking tools.

I know this sounds completely wet but he still in my memories and my heart.

I still dream about him quite often and talk to him. It sounds wierd and spooky but when I talk to him in my dreams he's aware that he's no longer with us.
The first time this happened it freaked me out but now I'm ok with it because in some very strange way he's still with me.

At the risk of putting the cat amongst the pigeons, this last sentance ties in with what our Finance Officer was saying on friday in the Pub. We were talking about religon, and he was saying that "heaven" is anywhere you want it to be, its all around you. He also said about death, that when people die and go to "heaven" they are where ever you want them to be, in trick's case, its in his dreams and heart.

Suddenly im beginning to doubt my previous stance on death and the "after life".

[fizzwheel]

When my friend got knocked over recently we all went to his local and had a few OK several drinks. We all knew him well and we know each other well, we were sad and people cried, but after a while it turned into a storytelling session after a while we were all crying with laughter remembering all the good times and adventures we'd had together as a group fof friends.

We put flowers down at the accident site, but after the funeral his parents asked if they could be cleared away as they didnt want the site becoming a shrine. Pete was cremated, but his ashes were Scattered at a place called "Barrow Mump" near Bridgewater which is somewhere he liked to go walking and was fascinated by what it means.

On the way back from the pub on Friday I stoped for a few minutes at the accident site just to say hello. Also the night afer he died I will swear I felt his presence in the pub, he was going round each corner of the pub that he used to sit in and I felt like he was saying goodbye to all of us.

I had another friend that died when I was younger he lost control of his motorbike on a series of bends near where I live, every time I ride through there I say hello, When I got the SV I rode through there to show it to him and I'll do the same with the Gixxer, I also swear I felt Toby sat in the car with me one day soon after he passed away, I was upset as I had been thinking about him and I felt his hand on my shoulder telling me he was OK and everyting was alright. It was a comforting presence.

I dont know why I stopped on Friday night or why I say hello to Toby, but I do. To me thats the last places I know where they were alive. I feel like a part of their spirit is still there. I dont associate that feeling with a grave.

[Ed]

My dad died nearly 20 years ago now. He's buried in a cemetery in south London. When I lived nearby I used to put flowers on it, more if I'm honest cos I thought it was the right thing to do. TBH when I think of my childhood I think more now of the wasted opportunities - my dad was not one of life's more adventurous people, his favourite word was 'no'. He was, I think, a victim of his own repressed childhood. The fact that he was 47 when I was born meant that we were so far apart - he hated anything to do with the 1960s and 1970s, like long hair, football culture, and jeans.

It hurts me to say - but the truth is that while I can remember him fondly, I find it hard to remember him with any great degree of affection :(

[madmal]

This led me to think about the way that we think about life and death, when I go to the Cremetoreum, all I can think about is him being ill, dying and his funeral. These are aspects of his life that I don't want to be reminded of, I want to remember his life not his death.
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Tricky, like you say mate, you want to remember his life not his death. no one will ever think of you any less for not going to the crematorium and you shouldn't feel troubled for not going.

everybody deals with the death of someone in their own personal way. heaven is where the heart is. keep those good memories and build on that.

my daughter lost a school friend last year in a car crash and the only way she has been coping is by remebering all the good times they had together.

talking about it helps. like you say, if it hurts to visit the crem/grave, leave it until you feel you can go there with an open mind and heart. if you never visit the place, you have your memories, they are much more precious.

[cuffy]

I know this sounds completely wet but he still in my memories and my heart.
That's all that matters, no one but no one can take that away from you, and if they ever try too then there no friend of yours

[Supervox]

To me, the plot where my parents ashes are interred is a focal point for rememberance. Yes, of course I remember them & talk to them at other times & in other places too - but when I go there it's a more 'physical' link.

However, we all deal with the loss of loved ones in different ways, so there can be no rights & wrongs or absolutes with regard to this issue.

[northwind]

When we started to clear out my grandad's place it was really hard to deal with... Literally everything was a memory, even some of the rubbish in the garage or the attic. Few things sadder than an empty home...

[Jelster]

I wouldn't feel guilty about this at all, all of the crematoriums I have ever been to have been pretty grim places. Although your parents ashes are physicaly there, they themselves are not.

OK, some of my "guilt" stems from the day my Mum died. She was in hospital and my wife and I (weren't married then) planned to see her in the morning. We put it off, went shopping and decided to go in the afternoon. She died at lunchtime. If I'm honest I'd say that I put it off because I hate hospitals. Mum had been quite ill from the time I was 8, so she was in hospital quite often.

As for my Dad, he loved steam trains, and worked as a volunteer at the Bluebell Railway. After his death the railway put on a special coach for the family and his ashes were put into the fire of the train, to be spread at the place he loved most. I like to visit the railway and try to do it about once a year. Although my parents came from a totally different era (they were in their 40's when I was born) I still have some fond memories.

However, they both died from smoking related illnesses and its a fact that we have just 2 smokers in the following 2 generations of the family.

.

[the_runt69]

Personally I like to go to the Crem to be alone and talk to my wife's parents, mine are not in the area so will talk to them at home. Its a peaceful place and I dont find it depressing.

H

[Rog]

Reading this brings back memories of when my grandad died. Some not so nice members of my family where round his place straight after the wake carving things up for who gets what and when. It always amazes me how people can change over a death or a long serious ilness in the family. Anyway, everyone had been and gutted his gaff. I stood there and saw that they had left the one thing that he treasured most. It was a box of old wood work tools that he had bought or made himself. I suppose that becuase they were not worth anything nobody bothered but I remembered spending hours in his shed watching him make all soughts of models while he occasionally told me stories of the second world war. Knowing they would be dumped I decided to take them with me. I still have them all and whenever I use them I always think about those happy times in the shed.

To me a person is kept alive by the continuing impact they have your life or little things that you do and you remember doing it with them. I personally find it hard to get any feeling from the cemetary as it seems to have little bearing on the person your trying to remember.

[cosmiccharlie]

I Still find it hard coping with my Mum and Dads bereavement, Still find it hard attending there plots but am glad I do,

I know everyone is different but for me when times are hard and life just seems so messed up, I go the crem and tidy the plots up, take time out, walk about even tidying any bottle and bags into the bin, and when walking home after a couple of hours of thoughts/memories and reminisincing there everything seems so much better and problems seem small in comparison, and feel in myself alot better, kind of therapeutic

[cosmiccharlie]

To me a person is kept alive by the continuing impact they have your life or little things that you do and you remember doing it with them. I personally find it hard to get any feeling from the cemetary as it seems to have little bearing on the person your trying to remember.

I get that feeling with my Gran and Grandad, still have some of her cooking bowls and tools that I use and his tools all battered and worn, but they come out for a clean every now and again,

Sometimes makes we wish I followed his footsteps working with his hands than sitting at a desk

[Amanda M]

I still feel sad when I think of my gran and grandad. I don't visit the crematorium but I don't need to do that to remember them because they'll always be close to me in my heart. I spent some fantastic time with them when they were alive and know they would be proud of what I've done with my life. They were brilliant people and I'll always remember them :)