View Full Version : Any advice over apealing parking tickets? I GOT LET OFF!
Ok, so I ran out of petrol on the Mall. :( I've got a dicky stomach at the moment so I didn't want to push it to a bike bay and so I parked it on the pavement and got a taxi to the nearest petrol station. When I got back, I found a Metropolitan Police Parking Offense ticket :( Nice huh?
It says I can request a court hearing instead of paying. Do I stand a chance of getting off the ticket by pleading for leniancy? I have the petrol station receipt to show that I bought fuel at the time the ticket was issued.
Thanks in advance...
It depends entirely upon whether you want to go through the trauma and intense aggravation of the appeal process. Spiderman is the guy you want as regards advice as he (thankfully) fights the system left, right, and centre - but he's in Italy for a couple of weeks.
I'd grind your teeth and simply pay it.
.
furrybean
14-03-06, 09:44 AM
Sorry to say, 99% of the time you have to roll over and take it. Makes me furious though. I got one the other day!!!
If this helps
http://upload4.postimage.org/2890/ky_jelly.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/2890/photo_hosting.html)
northwind
14-03-06, 10:10 AM
If you want a purely pragmatic way of looking at it... It'll cost you more in lost time to fight it, even if you're succesful, than you'll save. If you need to take a morning off work to sit in court, there's really no point.
But you never know, if you applied in writing you might have a chance of avoiding it without spending so much time on it. Not sure about that.
I got a parking ticket on my car. It was an honest oversight from me. I met friends in the car park, got chatting and forgot to pay. Got back to the car and it had a ticket on it.
Appealed against the ticket with a letter, but enclosed a cheque to cover the fine as well. They let me off and returned the cheque.
Flamin_Squirrel
14-03-06, 11:46 AM
I got a parking ticket on my car. It was an honest oversight from me. I met friends in the car park, got chatting and forgot to pay. Got back to the car and it had a ticket on it.
Appealed against the ticket with a letter, but enclosed a cheque to cover the fine as well. They let me off and returned the cheque.
Ah, for a bit of human decency. None of that with London parking wardens, I fear.
I got away with this one
http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=24916&highlight=yokel
Bit of tippex and photocopier action to *ahem* amend the service schedule and remove the time stamp (which was before the ticket was issued.)
Give them your excuse, and send in a copy of the garage petrol receipt to prove it really had run out, you'll probably get away with it.
Press release 15 March 2006, for immediate release.
B R I T I S H W E I G H T S & M E A S U R E S ASSOCIATION
British Weights & Measures Association uncovers a legal defect that
could render all parking penalty charges illegal.
A recent survey conducted by the British Weights & Measures Association
into the legality of the metrication law revels that local authorities
were applying one principle of the law for traders selling in imperial
measures and a different but wrong principle for enforcing parking
fines.
This means either all parking fines must be refunded, or the Metric
Martyrs must be pardoned. The survey shows that Local Authorities
rejected the basis of the metrication law. Of course, this is wholly
understandable because £1billion-worth of parking fines annually are
under threat of being refunded.
Following Lord Justice Laws' 2002 Divisional Court judgement, which
found the Metric Martyrs guilty, no "ordinary" laws could be used to
impose fines without a court conviction. The 1689 Bill of Rights is
still in force and it says: 'That all grants and promises of fines and
forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and
void'. It nullifies the Road Traffic Act 1991 which gives local
authorities power to impose fines without trial.
The Local Authorities have been forced to make a choice and decided
against Lord Justice Laws' 2002 Divisional Court judgement.
The BWMA is writing to all 200 local trading standards authorities,
calling for them to cease enforcement of metric regulations. This is
because, by their own evidence, they could no longer legally enforce
metric measures.
Traders will once again be able to sell bananas by the pound!
NOTES TO EDITORS
Before the Metric Martyr's trial (where shopkeepers were found guilty of
the criminal offence of selling in pounds and ounces) it was a principle
of British law that where two Acts conflict then the more recent Act
prevails. Under this rule they would have won their case and continued
to sell their fish and fruit by the pound and ounce.
A Hierarchy of Acts was created by Lord Justice Laws in the Divisional
Court in 2002 and consists of "constitutional" Acts which take
precedence over later but "ordinary" Acts. The Divisional Court ruled
that, since metric regulations flow from the prior "constitutional"
European Communities Act 1972, they now take precedence over the later
but "ordinary" Weights and Measures Act 1985 that allows pounds and
ounces, feet and inches, etc.
Constitutional expert Mr Robin de Crittenden observed that Lord Justice
Laws also identified the Bill of Rights 1689 as a "constitutional"
statute. This Act forbids the imposition of fines or forfeits without a
conviction in a court of law. So, the Bill of Rights 1689 takes
precedence over the later but "ordinary" Road Traffic Act 1991 that was
intended to allow parking fines to be imposed without the need for a
conviction by a court of law.
Thus, the "Hierarchy of Acts" that makes pounds and ounces unlawful also
makes the issuing of automatic parking fines unlawful.
Motorists have been challenging their parking fines by invoking the
"constitutional" Bill of Rights 1689 i.e. to declare their parking fines
"illegal and void". Local Authorities, however, rejected the
'Hierarchy of Acts'. None agreed to apply the "constitutional" Bill of
Rights 1689 over the later but "ordinary" Road Traffic Act 1991.
BWMA believes that this response makes the enforcement of metric
regulations untenable, since how can trading standards officers apply
metric regulations dependent on a 'Hierarchy of Acts' that their own
legal departments dismiss?
BWMA has therefore written to all trading standards authorities calling
on them to cease metric enforcement. As long as authorities regard the
Road Traffic Act 1991 as lawful, then so too must be the Weights and
Measures Act 1985, meaning lb/oz, our customary measures, are also
lawful.
Full details of the BWMA analysis of Local Authority responses to the
survey are on the web site at: http://www.bwmaonline.com
<http://www.bwmaonline.com/> Click on :
Local Authorities' doubts over Lord Justice Laws' ruling on Hierarchy of
Acts. <http://www.bwmaonline.com/Legal%20-%20BWMA%20Analysis.htm>
Information on the Metric Martyrs at: www.metricmartyrs.com
Further information contact Mr. John Gardner, BWMA Director, 98 Eastney
Road, Croydon CR0 3TE, Tel. 07986 007994, e-mail JohnGardner@Email.com
Also: Mr Vivian Linacre, President BWMA,Tel/FAX: 01738 783936, e-mail
vtlinacre@yahoo.co.uk
Press release issued by David Delaney, BWMA PRO, tel; 01544 267197
British Weights & Measures Association, 11 Greensleeves Avenue,
Broadstone, Dorset BH18 8BJ, Tel: 020 8922 0089 (24 hr answering m/c)
northwind
16-03-06, 12:39 AM
Interesting. Legally biased, since fines without conviction are offered as an alternative to legal proceedings, not as a replacement- in other words, you can't be forced to pay a fine without a criminal conviction, but if you refuse to pay the fine you'll be taken to court. A definate distinction IMO.
DanAbnormal
17-03-06, 11:42 AM
Last year for me was 'year of the parking fine'. I had a total of 8 parking fines for parking at my office without displaying a valid parking permit. We had allocated bays but had to display a permit. I did have a permit and then 2 got stolen from my bike (how can you really secure a parking permit on a bike? already tried tax disck holder). They charge £50 for a replacement permit too. Either way they were getting money out of me. Finally though they gave us a motorcycle bay so we could park for free. But they designated the bike bay with the permit holders area so they still gave me tickets claiming that I was still in a permit holders bay!!! I fought tooth and nail and it went to the parking appeals service last Novemeber. I still have not heard anything back. The bike bay was clearly marked as a free bike bay and the notice board clearly stated that bikes were free when parked in baike bays. So it's obvious to me why they put the bike bay in the permit holders area, so they could try it on. Still, makes me wonder why they persisited with a £40 fine for over 8 months. Hounslow parking wardens!!!! Gah!
In your case mate I would fight it all the way. Don't give in to the f*ckers.
I sent them a letter arguing that the bike was there due to circumstances beyond my control. We'll see what they say!
Incidentally, my father got a ticket on Edgeware Road, whilst parked next to a car that had arabic number plates. You can guess that it didn't have a ticket on it! He paid, but eventually got his cheque back.
Anyway, my ticket was issued by the police rather than the council, so it may not be possible for them to just drop it. Fingers crossed though.
DanAbnormal
17-03-06, 11:54 AM
I think you may have a better case against the police. Tell them your tale of woe and you might be alright.
Good luck mate.
northwind
17-03-06, 07:02 PM
Incidentally, my father got a ticket on Edgeware Road, whilst parked next to a car that had arabic number plates. You can guess that it didn't have a ticket on it!
Diplomatic plates? Or just a UK prvate plate in, somehow, arabic? Just curious. They don't ticket diplomatic plates because there's realyl no point- plus, if we did it here, then we'd have to start paying our parking fines in other countries, which would probably start a war ;)
tomjones2
18-03-06, 01:40 PM
Incidentally, my father got a ticket on Edgeware Road, whilst parked next to a car that had arabic number plates. You can guess that it didn't have a ticket on it! He paid, but eventually got his cheque back.
Some chinesse guys a work never used to get small speeding fines because the plods couldn't copy their names off the chinesse driving licences.
Incidentally, my father got a ticket on Edgeware Road, whilst parked next to a car that had arabic number plates. You can guess that it didn't have a ticket on it!
Diplomatic plates? Or just a UK prvate plate in, somehow, arabic? Just curious. They don't ticket diplomatic plates because there's realyl no point- plus, if we did it here, then we'd have to start paying our parking fines in other countries, which would probably start a war ;)
Neither. An arabic car, flown over from Saudia Arabia (or wherever). There are a lot of rich Arabs who come over to London for the summer to play around, and drive their Ferrari's up and down edgeware road. Therefore, there are quite a few cars with arabic script number plates parked illegally in that area.
21QUEST
20-03-06, 10:02 AM
Incidentally, my father got a ticket on Edgeware Road, whilst parked next to a car that had arabic number plates. You can guess that it didn't have a ticket on it!
Diplomatic plates? Or just a UK prvate plate in, somehow, arabic? Just curious. They don't ticket diplomatic plates because there's realyl no point- plus, if we did it here, then we'd have to start paying our parking fines in other countries, which would probably start a war ;)
Neither. An arabic car, flown over from Saudia Arabia (or wherever). There are a lot of rich Arabs who come over to London for the summer to play around, and drive their Ferrari's up and down edgeware road. Therefore, there are quite a few cars with arabic script number plates parked illegally in that area.
Maybe the driver has a Slate :? :) .
The chances of you getting off is at best 50/50. Had actually had a mechanical fault then that would be a different matter(then the ticket would be squashed). Running out of petrol would not normally be seen as a vehicle fault.
The good news is that you don't have to pay the fine straight away but make sure you write in within 14 days of the ticket issue date explaining the situation. if you luck is in , then you would be laughing. On the other hand they might not accept your argument (and there is a good chance) then you would be advised to pay the fine(£50) as once you write in within 14 days the fine is pegged at the reduced rate till a decision is made.
Cheers
Ben
DanAbnormal
20-03-06, 01:30 PM
Have you checked the highway code? I had a look through over the weekend and it contradicts itself. One one hand it sayd that it is illegal to 'drive' onto the pavement (so you can push a vehicle onto it?) but on the other hand if you breakdown it says 'get the vehicle off the road as soon as possible'. I take it you did not drive onto the kerb as you had broken down and also you had got your vehicle off the road as soona s possible (hence it was on teh pavement). Get the highway code and look it up and then use it. It's saved me from a parking fine.
Dan
I've already sent them a letter. I'm hoping that some friendly copper will let me off, if they can. Not heard anything yet, but I have 28 days to pay.
Ceri JC
20-03-06, 04:55 PM
If you want a purely pragmatic way of looking at it... It'll cost you more in lost time to fight it, even if you're succesful, than you'll save. If you need to take a morning off work to sit in court, there's really no point.
But you never know, if you applied in writing you might have a chance of avoiding it without spending so much time on it. Not sure about that.
A mate fought it in writing and never had to go to court. In that situation, we had quite a clear case though; the "permit holders only" sign (which photographs we sent in showed) was not just obscured by, but actually "inside" a scaffolding and boards structure on the end of a building that was being demolished. :roll:
We (and presumably the other 10-15 cars parked there) had no chance of seeing it. What makes me angry is that at least 10 of those people probably didn't appeal. :(
northwind
20-03-06, 07:29 PM
Neither. An arabic car, flown over from Saudia Arabia (or wherever). There are a lot of rich Arabs who come over to London for the summer to play around, and drive their Ferrari's up and down edgeware road. Therefore, there are quite a few cars with arabic script number plates parked illegally in that area.
So cars without UK registration? Happens everywhere, you could take your bike to many european states and they'll not ticket you since it's not worth the hassle.
kwak zzr
20-03-06, 08:03 PM
I've already sent them a letter. I'm hoping that some friendly copper will let me off, if they can. Not heard anything yet, but I have 28 days to pay.
you will prob get away with it, i had the same prob with car tax a few years ago, traffic warded had me for no tax and i evan showed the **** a recipit for the car which i'd only just purchased! i was on my way to get the tax! i had a fine come for £65 + the cost of road tax but when i sent a photo copy of my tax disk in they let me off.
21QUEST
20-03-06, 09:54 PM
Not trying to be funny or anything(Hope he gets lucky) but peeps don't forget bike did not breakdown. He ran out of petrol.
Cheers
Ben
kwak zzr
20-03-06, 09:56 PM
then lie :twisted:
21QUEST
20-03-06, 10:02 PM
then lie :twisted:
:lol: :lol:
yep that would be the way but you would need some sort of paper work from a breakdown service/garage for that to work.
A friend :-dd did that once years ago when he got a parking fine. He had the time to kill so turned the petrol tap to reserve , ran the bike till it clonked out and disconnected a spark plug :twisted: :P
Cheers
Ben
Note that the BWMA defense WON'T work in this case, you bike was ticketed by the police rather than the parking attendants so it is a criminal offence. You can either pay or go to court. The BWMA related to the decriminalised parking offences, where there is no option to go to court, which is still against the law (probably) due to the Bill of Rights 1680something or other.
Best of luck
MT
SVTONYB
21-03-06, 12:36 PM
One one hand it sayd that it is illegal to 'drive' onto the pavement (so you can push a vehicle onto it?) but on the other hand if you breakdown it says 'get the vehicle off the road as soon as possible'. I take it you did not drive onto the kerb as you had broken down and also you had got your vehicle off the road as soona s possible (hence it was on teh pavement). Get the highway code and look it up and then use it. It's saved me from a parking fine.
Dan
Technically to DRIVE a vehicle means that you are in control of the speed and direction
so pushing is driving
DanAbnormal
21-03-06, 01:08 PM
The engine hs to be running for it to be considered 'driving'. Just checked with my instructor and policeman. You shou'd be alright.
northwind
21-03-06, 09:05 PM
You can be done for being drunk in charge while sitting in a parked car, so this might be the same. Instructors aren't lawyers ;)
Technically to DRIVE a vehicle means that you are in control of the speed and direction
so pushing is driving
This is correct.
The engine hs to be running for it to be considered 'driving'. Just checked with my instructor and policeman. You shou'd be alright.
This is incorrect.
Also, if your bike breaks down for whatever reason. You are not allowed to push it on the pavement, you have to push it on the road. Also, by law, you are required to wear your helmet (with strap done up) whilst pushing it. As law states whilst the vehicle is moving on the road, you are driving / riding it and therefore you should be wearing your helmet.
DanAbnormal
22-03-06, 10:27 AM
So in other words the highway code is a load of ******** then. Makes you wonder who makes up these stupid rules. This also means that some plicemen also have no clue of what they are talking about. Not that that is anything new! :wink:
Spiderman
23-03-06, 06:11 PM
Thor.... PM me what the actual offence is will you. This is a real grey area in my experience but there are always ways and means.
So in other words the highway code is a load of ******** then. Makes you wonder who makes up these stupid rules. This also means that some plicemen also have no clue of what they are talking about. Not that that is anything new! :wink:
Yup, the highway code is only a set of guidlines and very little of it is based on law. There are a few parts that say "according to the road traffic act..." but the rest, including letting busses out, is only guidlines to make the roads easier for us all to use.
philipMac
24-03-06, 03:00 AM
In the US they seem to have an interesting system.
I got a ticket, $65 which I felt was BS. So, I plead not guilty. ( I was parked adjacent to a metered spot, not on it, locked to the meter. I had asked a cop could I park there, and she said it was totally fine.)
There was no response for about 2 months.
Then I got a fine for the original amount, plus 10 dollars, with a nasty letter.
So, I sort of thought, bugger. The whole time, there was no details at all about how to contact and ask anyone about the ticket.
So, I left it for a couple of days.
Then, I got a letter, sort of nice almost in tone, saying, would you mind paying 43 bucks, and we will just put all this stuff behind us, and call it a day, and make a fresh start and smoke a few spliffs or something.
There was a big stick too, a nasty court appearance, with all sorts of long words and charges.
I paid the 43 bucks. :lol:
Ok. They sent me letter, saying that the action is suspended (not dropped) while they may make further investigations. They've not let me off, but they haven't said definately no either.
Fingers crossed!
DanAbnormal
27-03-06, 12:25 PM
At least they are looking into it. Really hope you get off this one. Best of luck.
Ok. They sent me letter, saying that the action is suspended (not dropped) while they may make further investigations. They've not let me off, but they haven't said definately no either.
Fingers crossed!
They are obliged to suspend the fine whilst the "look into it". I wouldn't get your hopes to high though.
WOOOO! THEY LET ME OFF!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D
21QUEST
28-04-06, 09:17 AM
WOOOO! THEY LET ME OFF!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D
Good for Ya.
I bet you won't run out there again or ride with the 'runs' :? :P :wink:
Cheers
Ben
quikstu
28-04-06, 10:23 AM
Brilliant news. Common sense prevails again!
Spiderman
28-04-06, 12:56 PM
Very pleased to hear it Thor.
What did they say to your appeal? Was it just a simple "we looked into it and withdraw the ticket" type of thing?
Just curios is all.
Essentially:
"Having looked at the circumstances around the ticket issue, I have decided not to press enforcement of the ticket."
No real details given. Should I write to say thank you do you think?
GSXR Carlos
28-04-06, 08:03 PM
Neither. An arabic car, flown over from Saudia Arabia (or wherever). There are a lot of rich Arabs who come over to London for the summer to play around, and drive their Ferrari's up and down edgeware road. Therefore, there are quite a few cars with arabic script number plates parked illegally in that area.
So cars without UK registration? Happens everywhere, you could take your bike to many european states and they'll not ticket you since it's not worth the hassle.
would it not be tempting to have a false, foreign plate on your bike, which could be covered up by your real one when you're riding? maybe something that sticks over the top?
just wondering is all :twisted:
Essentially:
"Having looked at the circumstances around the ticket issue, I have decided not to press enforcement of the ticket."
No real details given. Should I write to say thank you do you think?
No, they might turn around and go 'hang on, did I write that? oops, will actually enforce it...' :lol:
Neither. An arabic car, flown over from Saudia Arabia (or wherever). There are a lot of rich Arabs who come over to London for the summer to play around, and drive their Ferrari's up and down edgeware road. Therefore, there are quite a few cars with arabic script number plates parked illegally in that area.
So cars without UK registration? Happens everywhere, you could take your bike to many european states and they'll not ticket you since it's not worth the hassle.
would it not be tempting to have a false, foreign plate on your bike, which could be covered up by your real one when you're riding? maybe something that sticks over the top?
just wondering is all :twisted:
yes, very tempting :twisted:
Spiderman
29-04-06, 05:51 PM
Essentially:
"Having looked at the circumstances around the ticket issue, I have decided not to press enforcement of the ticket."
No real details given. Should I write to say thank you do you think?
:lol: I'm laughing cos i had excatly the same thought recently.
The inland revenue sent me a fine of £100 for failing to make my tax return on time. Since i've been paying thru PAYE for the last 18 months i didnt need to make a tazx return and i'd already told them i was no longer self employed back then.
So when i got the letter saying the had withdrawn the fine i too felt like writing and saying thanks.
But then my paranoia got the better of me
Me: Thank God for that, one letter to them and they sorted it, Makes a change. Maybe i'll write and say thanks for being so efficient (sp).
My Para: Dont be so stupid! How many people do you think write to say thanks? You're such a dummy!!
Me: Yeh but maybe thats why i should, let them know there are some who appreciate when a good job is done.
My Para: Yeh and maybe they'll look at it and go "no one ever writes to say thanks, what this guy hiding? I know lets look into him with a fine toothed comb. See what he's trying to hide."
Me: hmmmm. Maybe you're right. I love you.
Paranoia can be a good thing sometimes :lol:
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.