Engine cut out when warm

[JediGoat]

Had a bit of a twitchy-bottom moment yesterday on the way home from work.

My bike (K4) occasionally cuts out when completely cold and increasing the revs to pull away. In my book, that's kind of acceptable, and maybe even normal.

However, after riding for 20-25 minutes last night, I was between two cars at the front of a queue of traffic on the Euston Road. Lights go green, I go to pull away.....and puertwuuuwnik - the engine cuts out (that's the noise my brain understands it as :? ).

I immediately hit the start switch....and nothing. Try again...nothing. Add some throttle...nothing. Now cars are passing my (very closely) on both sides at increasing speed. It won't respond to just hitting the starter (same thing as when it cuts out cold), I get a veritable cornicopia of warning lights flashing on and off, and it almost sounds like there is no electrical power.

So I give it just a little throttle, and it kicks in....then dies. So I'm there with my hazards on....praying that no-one coming up behind is texting while driving! :shock:

After about 8-10 tries and half a minute of muscle-tensed panic (felt more like 20) I got it started and pulled away, and it was no bother after that.

So, to get to the point, does anyone else get this? Is it 'normal', or is there perhaps something foul afoot :evil:

The only other possibly relevant thing that springs to mind is that I was warming my left hand on the engine casing while waiting at the lights. I noticed (during the panic period) theat the engine temp was reading 100, but as I commute through central London, my bike can often get upto 104 without problems.

Any advice appreciated. If there's something I can do to sort this out, I would rather pay the money than gamble my life on London drivers paying attention. :(

Jo
P.s. On a positive note, I guess that contributed to the 'one scare a day' necessary to keep your heart healthy :D

[Blue_SV650S]

I was going to suggest carb icing, but as I read on I realised this is unlikely. The bike shouldn’t really be getting to 100deg anyway, especially this time of year, is the fan working properly?

I’d be more concerned about that right now rather than the weird cutting out bit!! If the engine is getting that hot, it isn’t going too be too happy!!!

Check the coolant level in the rad, if you have gone to 100+deg before then you have probably spewed out some of the coolant into the expansion bottle, now theoretically it should suck it back when things cool, but to be honest, this doesn’t always happen (cap shuts, no return allowed). Obviously with less fluid in the system overheating is more likely etc etc …

If the fluid level has dropped, top it up with coolant mix. I have a curvy that doesn’t have a temp gauge, so I can’t say exactly what temp the fan kicks in, but most of my other bikes have kicked in around the 90deg mark. It might even say in the handbook what temp the fan is supposed to activate.

If the coolant is full and the fan is working properly then the temp (especially this time of year) should never go over say 95 deg. I’d say investigating this is your primary course of action!!

If fan and a levels check out then you might have a sticky thermostat?

[kwak zzr]

my car (ford focus) did the very same thing the other morning, the engine was warm but every time i had to stop it just died on me :? after a few times and the car spending aday on the work carpark it was fine and has never done it since.
i just put it down to electrical gremlins.

[JediGoat]

Thanks for the advice Blue.

I'll check the coolant in the morning, after I've read the manual to see where the window is :oops:

I'm going to keep an eye of the temp reading next week. If it keeps reaching 100, then I'll call Rob at Berrington-Smith Motorbikes and get him to take a look.

It's possible that the problem is related to the fact that I binned the bike down the road about 4 months ago. It was a 15-20mph drop on the left hand side, but the lower fairing bashed the rediator a bit. The mechanic that did the repairs said the rad was dented, but still functioning fine.

I'll keep an eye on it. It may be was Kwak said - electronic gremlins having some fun!

Jo

[jonboy]

What's your idle speed?


.

[JediGoat]

It was around 1500, until I had it serviced, then I've noticed it's nearer 1000

[kwak zzr]

mines 1000rpm but i did my 4k service today and it says in the hand book adjust the idle to between 1200 & 1400rpm with the engine warm, had to turn mine up a tad.

[Scoobs]

I found 1400 rpm to be about optimal on the SV. 1200 was a bit lumpy. 1000 is just ridiculous. I reckon that's your problem right there.

[KayDee]

I'm not sure if this will help but you could try the TPS adustment - http://www.sv650.org/sv_faq.htm Scroll down untill you get to the TPS for the K3.

[jonboy]

It was around 1500, until I had it serviced, then I've noticed it's nearer 1000

That's the problem (I would venture to suggest). When I had my SV serviced (haven't taken it back since) the numpty that did it brought the idle speed down to 1000 rpm and it kept cutting out on a closed throttle and made life pretty dangerous.

Just raise it to 1500 and you'll have solved the problem.


.

[kwak zzr]

my k3 runs ok at 1000rpm i adjusted it because i want it right. :thumbsup:

[Blue_SV650S]

Thanks for the advice Blue.

I'll check the coolant in the morning, after I've read the manual to see where the window is :oops:

Jo

The 'window' you describe will be the expansion bottle?? we are interested in the water in the rad, not the overflow bottle … although where the fluid should have gone, won’t tell us for sure the level in the rad. What you want to do is to pop the radiator cap off. The radiator should be full to the brim (or as near as damn it), if it is not then it needs topping up with coolant. Make a not of approximately how much it takes and report back :)

Sitting in London traffic with a wonky rad doesn’t sound ideal. :D But again, one thing you need to check is if/when the fan is cutting in.

[JediGoat]

Well, I'm getting very confused about what could be wrong (that's not hard, mind), so I called Rob (mechanic) and told him what was happening.

He reckons that the fan shouldn't cut in until 104 degrees (which is what it used to do) and an engine temp in the high 90s is nothing to worry about. Funnily, the temp got to 103 on the way home tonight and the fan did come on. However, this was after it cut out 3 times on the way home last night, once this morning, and 5 five times coming home tonight :shock:

There seems to be no pattern to it - tonight it cut out 4 times when the temp was below 50, and once when it was in the nineties. Sometimes it cut out as I went to pull away (just raising the revs a touch before letting the clutch out), sometimes when I rolled off the throttle with the clutch in, and once when I didn't even touch anything! At one point when the bike was idling, there was also a noticeable knocking in the engine, which I could feel through the tank.

Added to this I was mentioning to a friend at work (who's an experienced rider) about the problems of restarting after it cuts. Sometimes when I hit the start button (often as I'm rolling scarily across a junction trying to pull away) there's nothing, almost as if there's no power from the battery. I'd also noticed that the bike sounds like it's struggling to get enough electrical power when starting up of a morning (v.dim lights and the engine turning over very slowly). I'd also noticed that my alarm had been bleeping when it shouldn't. He suggested that maybe my battery is on the way out (or has a loose connection), and that is causing the alarm warning bleeps and the restart problems.

This may be a different problem to whatever is causing the bike to cut out (that may be the idle speed, as it normally cuts when I come on or off the throttle), or it could be a short somewhere?

Anyway, as my commute now feels like a game of Russian Roulette (and seeing as I've been wiped out once on the Euston Road, and don't want that to happen again), I'm taking it to Rob in the morning for him to investigate what the problem is (although I'm not looking forward to cutting out on the A40 at 9am :shock: ). I'll let you know what he finds.

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions guys. :thumbsup:

Jo -> fed up of being to scared to filter in case I get stuck between to lanes of fast moving traffice again!

p.s. A big thanks to whoever is was who (Steve I think) recommended Rob to me. He seems like a top bloke.

[Blue_SV650S]

Right, id suggest it could be a few things then. (in no particular order)

1: you have a coil breaking down
2: your alarm/immobiliser is causing you grief
3: the battery does sound suspect, this could be causing you problems.
4: the side stand cut-out switch is playing up
5: the ecu/cdi is playing up.
6: the ignition switch contacts are corroded
7: the earth strap ‘earthing point’ is corroded.
8: if it is injected it might be the injectors

I’d start off by fitting a new battery, if it is suspect it will only let you down in a big way soon anyway!!

Unbolt and examine the earth lead.

Eliminate the side stand switch (hardwire it).

Then you are into test/replacement of mentioned components.

If it is happening at different temperatures we will ignore the cooling system at this point.

If all else fails I’d be happy to take it out for a good spanking for you to see if that sorts it!! :D

[JediGoat]

Oh good. Not too much that could be wrong then :lol:

I'm going to print this thread out and take it with me tomorrow to give to Rob. There's so many random things going on, that he might need the info to get him started.

Ta very much
Jo -> already waving goodbye to her annual bonus :(

[The Basket]

When I was in the Spain...my new K5 would go over 100'C in heavy traffic a lot...but would quickly go down once on the move. It was Northern Spain so not to hot. So even a box new bike with supposedly everything working will hit the 100's with no problems. Didn't have any cutting out moments.

No bike should ever cut out if its OK. Need a meddle me thinks.

[JediGoat]

When I was in the Spain...my new K5 would go over 100'C in heavy traffic a lot...but would quickly go down once on the move. It was Northern Spain so not to hot. So even a box new bike with supposedly everything working will hit the 100's with no problems. Didn't have any cutting out moments.

No bike should ever cut out if its OK. Need a meddle me thinks.

My goes down to 70s-80s when I get moving (not often in central london, mind).

I will advise Rob that meddling is required :D

Ta
Jo

[Blue_SV650S]

Oh please let me take it out for a good spanking!!! :twisted:

[JediGoat]

Steady now :shock:

[Blue_SV650S]

Steady now :shock:

I was talking about the bike ... :-k but ..... :twisted: ... :lol:

[JediGoat]

Like toothache that vanishes the day you go to the dentist, my bike hasn't cut out once today. :roll:

Rob had a look at it, and seems to have identified the cause of the electrical problems - the regulator. Instead of my battery being 30+ volts, it's at 12 :shock: It'll cost £100 for a new one.

As for the cutting out - no idea (unless it's related to the undercharged battery). All the sensors are working fiine.

I'm going to take it out for a pootle on Sunday morning, and if it cuts out, then I'm getting the tube to work and taking my bike back to Rob for him to test ride it when cold.

Jo

[Blue_SV650S]

Eh? The battery should be at 12v (well between 12 and 14 when running). A blown regulator is what would make it 30+volts … I guess what he/you means is that the battery isn’t getting enough charge hence struggling to even keep 12v?? Which can be down to a faulty regulator too, or a coil gone in the generator. To be honest when regulators go, they tend to go such that they don’t regulate (the 30v+ scenario), I am sure he will test it, but if you are struggling with the 12v, it is perhaps more probable that the regulator is fine and you have lost a phase on the generator?

I’d get him to check this before you splash out 100 notes on a new reg/rec unit!!

Oh and by the way, you can get aftermarket regulators for about £60 and they are generally ‘stronger’ than OEM jobbies.

[JediGoat]

The most likely explanation for the 12v confusion is me not understanding what he was talking about, and typing what I think he said! :oops:

Yes, you're right, he said that the regulator isn't charging the battery enough, or at least not consistently, which would explain why sometimes it starts like a bike with a new battery, and other times like an asthmatic 70 year old smoker.

To be fair to Rob, he did have other jobs on and offered to look at it straight away, plus I was trying to hurry him up a bit because I had another appointment to get to.

I'm going to have to take it back to him so he can test it cold and take the time to investigate it properly - and to find what's causing the cutting out.

Why do bikes/cars/houses/jobs always co-ordinate their problems just when you have no spare time available :evil:

Thanks again for the advice, I'll let you know when the gremlin is found, hung, drawn and quartered.

Ta
Jo -> not to be beaten by a badly behaving bike, I'm going to force it to take me to work and back on Monday....as a punishment