Loud cans save lives?

[Peter Henry]

I am a little curious as to the thinking behind the above comment. Spidey has used it today on another thread which has prompted me.

My thinking is as follows:

An audible exhaust could in some situations prevent a pedestrian from stepping out on to the road. It could be said that if a car driver has his window down in traffic,then a loud can could perhaps be heard.

But when so many drivers today have very good hi-fi systems fitted and are highly likely to be blasting their fave tunes as they travel along, how relevant is the above argument for loud exhausts?

I throw the question to the peeps....... :-k

[lynw]

Some days down the A2 its like Moses parting the waves when cars move out of the way. :D

A huge and noticeable difference from when I had the stock can on or the baffle in.

More importantly though other bikers that havent been using their mirrors suddenly start to when they can hear you. :wink: :D

[Peter Henry]

lynw.....Just like the fellow bikers though,can you actually be sure it is the louder can creating this driver awareness or the fact that,(although we bikers like to think they don't!) the drivers are actually observing you in their mirrors? :wink:

[kwak zzr]

you can see cage drivers checking there centre mirror so they know your there.

[lynw]

lynw.....Just like the fellow bikers though,can you actually be sure it is the louder can creating this driver awareness or the fact that,(although we bikers like to think they don't!) the drivers are actually observing you in their mirrors? :wink:

Ok. I did a rideout with a guy on a Bandit with stock can. When he led no-one moved over. When I did we had the parting of the waves effect.

If it were down to drivers looking it should have happened with him just as much as with me - ok different drivers make it hard to quantify and say for certain. But he was without doubt sure it was my can that made the difference.

[DanDare]

What about the Dopler effect?

How many times have you heard sirens and panic looking around for them that you make a mistake because you think your in the way.??????

[DanDare]

What about the Dopler effect?

How many times have you heard sirens and panic looking around for them that you make a mistake because you think your in the way.??????

Never.

Pull the other one! :D

[Viney]

My car sound system is louder than my exhaust :twisted:

[DanDare]

What about the Dopler effect?

How many times have you heard sirens and panic looking around for them that you make a mistake because you think your in the way.??????

Never.

Pull the other one! :D

No, seriously. I've never made a mistake due to a siren etc.

I might have made a mistake or two that have resulted in a siren, but that's another story.. :lol:

I come from a family of Firemen and one of their gripes is people not moving out the way. Suppose its rubbed off on me.

One time my old man was answering a shout in Croydon and a couple of old farts
sat at the lights and didn't move an inch even when they went green. ( The lights not the old fogeys ) :roll:

[Jelster]

My car sound system is louder than my exhaust :twisted:

"Chavtastic" strikes again... :lol:

.

[lynw]

I come from a family of Firemen and one of their gripes is people not moving out the way. Suppose its rubbed off on me.

One time my old man was answering a shout in Croydon and a couple of old f*rts
sat at the lights and didn't move an inch even when they went green. ( The lights not the old fogeys ) :roll:

I got beeped by a bus for not moving out the way yesterday as a police car with sirens was approaching. Clearly not everyone is aware you aren't supposed to go through red lights for them - its their job to drive round you. This is the red lights at old street roundabout where going through = running a pedestrian over. Most of whom have headphones on and are oblivious to the sirens and impending police car.

Im not prepared to get points on my license - as has been the case recently - for this. The moment the lights went green, left indicator on to pull over in front of the bus and away they went - a delay of 10 seconds tbh.

But not going when theyre green is a different matter though.

And no Ive not been confused by sirens either. :D

[DanDare]

Dan, that might be typical of a lot of car drivers but I'd say the number of bikers who behave like that is probably significantly less because in my experience we tend to:

a) pay more attention to what's going on around us
b) see the lights further back down the road because we actually use our mirrors
c) tend to show more courtesy for others

and finally:

d) appreciate that it might be us that the next ambulance is off to help..

Lee.

Fair comment :D

Lynw, I see your point. :D
Suppose its different for the driver of the appliance.
Trouble is firemen will always tell you every second counts.

Have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. :D

Right, I'm off home now, take it easy y'all! :wink: :D

[Spiderman]

I certainly noticed the "moses effect" when i got rid of the standard can and put the g-force one on.
I agree that those with loud ICE probably dont hear me anyway, and neihter do the fool who ride bicycles with their Ipods in both ears (even when i had music on i never had it in both ears at once).

Same reason why i ride with my lights on during the day. Anything i can do to make me more noticeable to the ignorant proportion of cagers is a good thing, imo.

But i still ride as tho they havnt seen or heard me, its just safer that way for me.

And PeteH, i think its far more usefull in busy city commuting than out on open roads.

[fizzwheel]

My car sound system is louder than my exhaust :twisted:

I'm not surprised your Stereo is FFing loud.

I followed Liz along the A303 one day and I could hear the exhaust on my old Golf over the can on the SV :shock:

I dont think loud cans save lifes. I think a loud can helps make people aware of your presence. What I think saves lives is being aware and watching what other road users and pedestrians do IMHO.

[cyphertheory]

i drive thru camden weekly, and as anyone knows that area by the station, people never look before crossing. before i got the new exhaust on there, i had a few near misses with some dopy goits walking out on a green light. how i have my loud (and it is :D) can on there you can see them look up as you go past.

so it has really helped awareness i would say.

[fizzwheel]

I dont think loud cans save lifes.

Would you agree that:

- Being louder often helps to make people aware of your presence?

- And also, that if people are more aware of your presence that generally you are less likely to be involved in an accident with that person?

- And thirdly, that if you are less likely to be involved in an accident, that you are less likely to lose your life.. ?

Lee.

Lee I do agree.

What I think I was trying to say was that. I dont rely on the fact that I have a loud can on my bike to make people aware of my presence on the road. The way I'm reading this thread and it might be wrong is.

"If you have a loud can pedestrians or car drivers will hear you before they see you and wont step out in front of you or pull out on you whilst you're filtering"

IMHO you shouldnt rely on the your can to make people aware of you on the road, ( but as others have said it does help ). What you should be doing is paying proper attention to the way you ride and whats going on around you. I've lost count of how many times people have pulled out in front of me or stepped off the pavement in front of me when I'm on the SV and those of you who've been on a rideout with me will know how loud the blue flame on my bike is with both the baffles out.

[GC-SV]

A loud can will help as you've described PH but if the driver is not paying attention and has the music up he will not have a clue you are there.

We all like a bit of loud music at times in the car and you would not even hear a siren when its up. What gives you the signal of something around you is your alertness and observations whilst on the road.

Put simply:

Be Alert your country needs Lerts

[Peter Henry]

I have met a few "sirens" in my time that left me a little confused! :lol:

However that is of course all another story........... :P

[lynw]

Lynw, I see your point. :D
Suppose its different for the driver of the appliance.
Trouble is firemen will always tell you every second counts.

Have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. :D

Right, I'm off home now, take it easy y'all! :wink: :D

Fair enough. But I fail to see why I should get 3 points when the firecrews, police and ambulance drivers are taught how to deal with this situation.

Plus I fail to see why I should go through at the risk of injuring crossing pedestrians and thereby creating, possibly, another accident which requires an emergency vehicle.

I appreciate seconds count, but Id lose my license rapidly if I did this every time sirens go off in London and I went through red lights. And the guy in Doncaster that also got a £60 fine for it means Id be broke too. :(

[Peter Henry]

Spidey...Fortunately I am the opposite of yourself. I very rarely get snarled up in traffic when out on the bike.(However getting away from Jerez was a nightmare...yet the biggest danger there were knobs on bikes who were diving out from between stationary cars etc!)

I hope the theory about the noisey exhaust does prove accurate as I continue to strum my fingers on my desk impatiently waiting for my new one to arrive from Italy! :lol:

[fizzwheel]

Another point. So following this train of though does putting a loud exhaust on your 1.2 Corsa Chav Mobile make that any safer ?

Personally from my point of view, I put the can on my bike because I wanted it to sound better for my own personal enjoyment.

[Peter Henry]

Fizz...(Sorry about this! :P )

I am 100% with you on that. I am seeking a different sound,not particularly a louder sound. It is something that is pretty important I think. :wink:

[Ceri JC]

Blue flashing LED valve caps also makes cars move out of your way. I can only begin to imagine the results swapping your indicator covers for blue ones and putting your hazards on, a la Ghostrider 4 can achieve. :oops:

"I only did it the once yer honour and I realised how very lucky I was that the police I passed on that road were involved in a serious accident and didn't pull me and I took them out and threw them in my "spares" box as soon as I got home and haven't used them since." <- True Story.

[Mr Toad]

IMHO having a loud can can't be relied upon to make car drivers aware of your presence, but it does have an effect on 90% of the dopey pedestrians who are busy squeezing between the cars in London

The other 10% have their iPods plugged in and are going to get squashed sooner or later :twisted:

[northwind]

I've definately seen people hear my bike and make stupid mistakes... Mind you, it used to be horrifically loud... But then, the evidence of people noticing me because of it wouldn't be so noticable.

But i'm in the camp that you should never put yourself in the position where the sound of your exhaust can save you from being run over.

[lynw]

IMHO having a loud can can't be relied upon to make car drivers aware of your presence, but it does have an effect on 90% of the dopey pedestrians who are busy squeezing between the cars in London

The other 10% have their iPods plugged in and are going to get squashed sooner or later :twisted:

While it makes a difference, does anyone actually rely on it? I doubt it tbh.

I certainly dont. Its helpful in advertising my presence but I never assume its a failsafe. Theres always a deaf person out there, a half asleep person whos looking elsewhere for the noise or those in the land of oblivion that arent going to know youre there unless you backfire next to their door. Done that once accidentally but she certainly stopped daydreaming after that :twisted:

[Well Oiled]

Do loud cans save lives? Yes - there are probably a few people who are alive today who wouldn't be if the can was quiet.

Should they be legal - no, and that's from someone with a loud can on. If you do then you've gotta apply the same principle to all vehicles. There are loads of kids who've been killed after running out in front of a car who'd be alive if the car that hit them was really noisy, but we don't want loud car exhausts as that would make the roads a nightmare of noise, so why should we expect others to tolerate loud bike exhausts?

[mburnstead]

Do loud cans save lives? Yes - there are probably a few people who are alive today who wouldn't be if the can was quiet.

Should they be legal - no, and that's from someone with a loud can on. If you do then you've gotta apply the same principle to all vehicles. There are loads of kids who've been killed after running out in front of a car who'd be alive if the car that hit them was really noisy, but we don't want loud car exhausts as that would make the roads a nightmare of noise, so why should we expect others to tolerate loud bike exhausts?

Hear hear. I did have an Art can on my SV, and it was kind of fun, but to be honest it was just damned anti-social. I like to get up early some Sundays and go for a blast, but waking up my whole street as I left is, quite simply, not on. So I put the original back, and that meant I got more overall enjoyment out of the bike, as I could now use it early on weekend mornings when the roads are nice and quiet. I've got no intention of changing the original can on the R6 for the same reason. Noise IS a form of pollution, after all!

I also think that one reason people notice you more is because they are relatively rare - those who don't live here in London may not appreciate that going up towards the centre in the morning, you'll arrive at the head of queue at traffic lights amongst 10 other bikes. At every set of lights... With that number on the roads, noisy exhausts would soon make life pretty unpleasant for local residents, and car drivers might think the bike they can hear is the one they can see ahead, and not you coming alongside!

[SVTONYB]

I have a CCC can and I also have a blue LED at the front and I believe they have made a big difference to pedestrian awareness of my approach.

I got stopped by police and they gave my bike a good once over and they stated that the bike was obviously well looked after but they werent happy about the exhaust and blue led. I explained that I fitted them because I was fed up with peds walking out in front of me and I wanted to raise awareness of my presence and they agreed because they heard me then the blue light caught their eye. They then let me carry on my way wishing me good luck for a dry day

[SVTONYB]

http://shutter02.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/05/00A/7A/F8/B5/D4/IrqyPDew6Gn4Lw6zuSXVe0D1MX7XLyMd0060.jpg

This is what the led looks like and it comes in handy when commuting IE the moses effect.

[northwind]

Tony, you absolute hooligan. It's a CCC race can you have isn't it? Shakes the foundations of the world IIRC :)

you might run into a copper who takes a dimmer view of the blue light... I put a set of not-especially-blue lamps into a colleague's Golf, less than a week later she got a producer :roll: I'd told her they were a bit dodgy, but they did look good...

[instigator]

In town, they do indeed prevent accidents and I know that from experience as I've clipped a few pedestrians who didn't know I was coming down the road. :roll:

out in the country side, no they are indeed pointless and I have to say I don't agree with the use of them in national parks etc. However, I use my race can wherever I go and thats everywhere.

Also, as another point tonight., Coming home from a friends, I came down to a roundabout and it was absolutely pouring down with rain. The sv isn't fitted with a fender extender so the wet front cylinder might have caused this. Doing maybe 5mph and I change down into first and blip the throttle and let the clutch out as I ALWAYS do. If I had my race can on, I would have known the engine had died and I wouldn't have let the clutch out, almost causing a minor highside. As I was at a slight angle at the time, as you do. A race can would have meant I wouldn't have let the clutch out!! :evil:

If they could fit a bike with an exhaust that had control over its db output on the handlebars, that would be ideal for me. Loud in town and WHISPER quiet in the country.

[SVTONYB]

I agree with what you are saying Andy but I have had the blue led in for about 2 or 3 years and havent had a horti yet. When i got stopped on that one occassion I pointed out that the emergency services obviously use blue lights for a reason and if they save one ped then they are worth the risk of getting a producer.... as I say they agreed and so did the traffic cops on the bikesafe day I went on 2 yrs ago

[northwind]

yep, i pretty much agree with you Tony, but I don't make the rules. Yet.

[SVTONYB]

but I don't make the rules. Yet.


Yes you do

Is that not how its meant to work ie we voice our opinions and the government passes them as rules for all to abide by :wink:

[northwind]

OK they, I make 1 60 millionth of the rules :)

[SVTONYB]

:lol: :lol:

[Saint Matt]

I have a lot less people pulling out on me when I commute through town since I put a race can on. A race can also helps when you're next to someone in traffic on their phone.

[Gazza77]

How often though will a loud can make someone panic when they dont realise you are there and suddenly jump? Swerve out of the way is one option, but swerve into you is the other, especially when filtering. And yes, my can is loud....

[Well Oiled]

I agree with what you are saying Andy but I have had the blue led in for about 2 or 3 years and havent had a horti yet. When i got stopped on that one occassion I pointed out that the emergency services obviously use blue lights for a reason and if they save one ped then they are worth the risk of getting a producer.... as I say they agreed and so did the traffic cops on the bikesafe day I went on 2 yrs ago

Fair point, but the reason you're noticed is that only you and the emergency services have a blue light. If they legalise them and loads of people have them they'll be ignored. Then emergency vehicles on the way to an urgent calls won't get the 'moses effect' and people will die because of it.

[Balky001]

This old chestnut. People buy loud cans for cars and bikes cos they like the sound. It's nice if you can justify this self-indulgance using a rational arguement about the benefits of having one for other peoples and your safety. Ahem, yeah, OK. I'm sure there's time a can may help, just like if you wore stippy trousers and it caught someones eye.

I say its a self indulgance as if everyone had loud cans (all vehicles) then in traffic, where the 'life saving' benefits of the can are believed to be, wouldn't exisit as there would be so much noise no-one could hear anything. SO to be affective you'll want all other vehicles to be quiter than yours.

I travel the A13 and there's no way anyone can here my Remus race can unless I am next to them (or less than 10-mph) - and that would all too often be too late. The can faces the wrong way to be effective in warning traffic ahead (although it can make people jump when filtering and they haven't seen you when you go past) and if a car is moving at reasonable speed you'll have road noise and wind noise on top of the stereo.

I suppose if you ride around 10mph everywhere you may find traffic ahead hear you, but then you'll probably get rammed from behind by some un-observant driver so just ride safe and use the correct bike position if you want the cars to part for you - but some never will, ever.

In regard to lids - they save your life during an accident, they wont avoid one which I think this discussion is about.

[Peter Henry]

Balky.....I have to admit that my thinking up to know would align much more closely to your own than to that of peeps that have previously posted on this thread. :wink:

[SVTONYB]

Did I fit my end can for my own pleasure......Yes :oops:

Did I fit the blue led for my own pleasure......Yes :oops:

Have they put a stop to peds walking out in front of me.....Yes :shock:

Do I rely on them when riding....No of course not :lol:

Have they saved lives......Dont know how can you measure :?:

Have I blue leds or end can on my car.....of course not that would be silly :wink: