New Licensing Laws

[bobit69]

After reading the article in MCN regarding the new licensing laws, I thought I would see what other peoples opinions were?

see here:
Click me, I am nice short sentence that doesn't screw up the page layout, unlike that great long link that was here before. (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page=motorcyclenews.articles.articleCategory.a rticle&resourceId=4594804&articleCategory=NEWS_OTHER-NEWS)

Truthfully I think it is a good idea, at least when you do get the license for a bigger bike you would have the necessary experience..... runs for cover!

Cheers,

[Ceri JC]

I really would like to see an equivalent tiered system for car drivers.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Wont make a dent in accident figures. More government medling :evil:

Revolution!

[bobit69]

Ceri JC, good point. Seems ridiculous that you can past your test and go and buy a enormous motor, capable of killing many people if it is crashed. Where as a bike you are more likely to hurt only yourself.

[Grinch]

maybe they should be doing the same with cars...

[timwilky]

Personally I would like to see the removal of a riders ability to ride unaccompanied as a learner.

Most accidents with bikes are surely stupid kids on their twist & go, no proper protection beyond a cheap ill fitting lid.

At least if accompanied, by a qualified rider not neccasarily an approved instructor, they have the benifit of riding critic, instruction and example. I would ideally like to see the CBT become a test and of increased duration.

Sorry if this sounds like I am having a downer on learners, I am not. I would like to see more people on bikes. But as qualified riders not as learners. I personally see things like the restricted license as unhelpful. As there is little that can be done to easily establish at the side of the road whether a bike is in fact restricted.

I started my riding career on 250s as a learner in the 70s and regard the 125 as an unsuitable learner bike. Give them more power, but at the same time ensure that they are instructed/trained in its use.

[Ceri JC]

Personally I would like to see the removal of a riders ability to ride unaccompanied as a learner.

Most accidents with bikes are surely stupid kids on their twist & go, no proper protection beyond a cheap ill fitting lid.

At least if accompanied, by a qualified rider not neccasarily an approved instructor, they have the benifit of riding critic, instruction and example. I would ideally like to see the CBT become a test and of increased duration.

Sorry if this sounds like I am having a downer on learners, I am not. I would like to see more people on bikes. But as qualified riders not as learners. I personally see things like the restricted license as unhelpful. As there is little that can be done to easily establish at the side of the road whether a bike is in fact restricted.

I started my riding career on 250s as a learner in the 70s and regard the 125 as an unsuitable learner bike. Give them more power, but at the same time ensure that they are instructed/trained in its use.

Have to say I agree with this. I'm amazed at how many bikers are vehemently anti-DAS, given how much more relevant the experience is to riding a proper bike, rather than just messing about on your own on a 125. I've often seen 125 riders on L plates hesitating, or even completely stopped when confronted with an unusal hazard or junction/whatever, but when I overtake them, they happily follow (well, before I accelerate :wink: )and seen reasonably safe doing so. I think them just going out with a mate who has passed (so long as the mate isn't riding like a knob) is a good way of getting experience. I know a lot of my "post test" learning was done by following better/more experienced riders and watching what they do.

[Ward8124]

Personally I would like to see the removal of a riders ability to ride unaccompanied as a learner.

Most accidents with bikes are surely stupid kids on their twist & go, no proper protection beyond a cheap ill fitting lid.

At least if accompanied, by a qualified rider not neccasarily an approved instructor, they have the benifit of riding critic, instruction and example. I would ideally like to see the CBT become a test and of increased duration.

Sorry if this sounds like I am having a downer on learners, I am not. I would like to see more people on bikes. But as qualified riders not as learners. I personally see things like the restricted license as unhelpful. As there is little that can be done to easily establish at the side of the road whether a bike is in fact restricted.

I started my riding career on 250s as a learner in the 70s and regard the 125 as an unsuitable learner bike. Give them more power, but at the same time ensure that they are instructed/trained in its use.

Have to say I agree with this. I'm amazed at how many bikers are vehemently anti-DAS, given how much more relevant the experience is to riding a proper bike, rather than just messing about on your own on a 125. I've often seen 125 riders on L plates hesitating, or even completely stopped when confronted with an unusal hazard or junction/whatever, but when I overtake them, they happily follow (well, before I accelerate :wink: )and seen reasonably safe doing so. I think them just going out with a mate who has passed (so long as the mate isn't riding like a knob) is a good way of getting experience. I know a lot of my "post test" learning was done by following better/more experienced riders and watching what they do.

I agree and I'm still learning now as I've only passed my test for 6 months now and there are still things i am learning. Having done the DAS and experienced other riders riding like maniacs on high powered machines you do start to wonder about the sanity of letting people get on the big stuff straight after passing their test. So in short im all in favour of the new laws as it may save some of our beretherans lives.

[PBx]

I started my riding career on 250s as a learner in the 70s Not a lot of structured tutoring then though. :wink:


I think them just going out with a mate who has passed (so long as the mate isn't riding like a knob) is a good way of getting experience. You have just pointed out the main problem with all this. Knobs are like magnets - they attract each other. All that will happen is that one will pass then they are all off again, just like before.

What you need is make good safe riding socially attractive, and that is mainly done by peer pressure.

[goonrider]

Some people Young or old will driver dangerously in whatever they drive, to be honest no one can afford to insure or run a high powered Bike or Car anyway until they are 30 + now. ....unless they have Thousands of pounds for Insurance.

It seems they are affraid of the scooter-hooligan generation getting hold of big bikes at some point, but they are missing the point that they won't be able to afford these until they are years older (and more mature, hopefully).

It does feel like full on victimisation to be honest, as mentioned above

....What about cars ???
:x :x :x

I used to hoon around my TZ/RD as a teenager, but then I had mates who drove XR2/3, GTI's who were much worse offenders!

[Mutley]

so long as the mate isn't riding like a knob

Therein lies the problem. It isn't the bike, it is the attitude of the person riding it.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

So in short im all in favour of the new laws as it may save some of our beretherans lives.

It wont. At least not to any appreciable degree. Newly qualified riders killing themselves on outrageously powerful bikes dont make up a (or the most, anyway) significant portion of the casualty figures.

Make no mistake, this yet another ugly result of the eurocrats interfering just for the sake of it.

[Ward8124]

So in short im all in favour of the new laws as it may save some of our beretherans lives.

It wont. At least not to any appreciable degree. Newly qualified riders killing themselves on outrageously powerful bikes dont make up a (or the most, anyway) significant portion of the casualty figures.

Make no mistake, this yet another ugly result of the eurocrats interfering just for the sake of it.

Ok agreed up till a point fella but if it saves even one life its worth it surely? Mind you saying that most bikes go up to 70mph so it easy to get killed on a moped as a high powered bike so i can live with this either way.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Ok agreed up till a point fella but if it saves even one life its worth it surely?

Absolutely not. It's not the governments responsibility to save you from yourself. Anyway, with that thinking they could ban bikes all together and save 1,000 lives, would it be worth it? Hell no.

I've one life to live and be it long or short, I want to live it not exist it. The tossers who come up with this kind of over the top safety legislation have probably never lived a day in their life.

[lynw]

I posted my opinion here:

http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=35705

:P :D

Jordan as much as you like a good rant against our government, this one you cant levy against them. Tis the Germans and Austrian government imposing a consensus law forcing all EU governments to adopt it if passed.

Edit: oh just got to reading your post above. :oops:

[Warren]

isnt the majority of biker casualties the born again bikers ?

[GSXR Carlos]

while the new laws don't bother me anymore, i remember when they would have, changing the rules only benefits cage drivers more

NO FAIR

give us a fair cop :(

[Ceri JC]

I've one life to live and be it long or short, I want to live it not exist it. The tossers who come up with this kind of over the top safety legislation have probably never lived a day in their life.

Yep. Whilst I certainly don't think "life is cheap", the notion that it's some sort of holy grail that must be preserved whatever the cost is ludicrous. We all die anyway; I'd rather have a short fun one, than a long turgid one and one person alone has the right to make that decision: me.

[Warren]

I've one life to live and be it long or short, I want to live it not exist it. The tossers who come up with this kind of over the top safety legislation have probably never lived a day in their life.

Yep. Whilst I certainly don't think "life is cheap", the notion that it's some sort of holy grail that must be preserved whatever the cost is ludicrous. We all die anyway; I'd rather have a short fun one, than a long turgid one and one person alone has the right to make that decision: me.

agreed.

[Gnan]

franklin put it best

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[lynw]

isnt the majority of biker casualties the born again bikers ?

You obviously havent been reading SS on visordown recently have you? :P :lol:

Youngsters are the highest two wheeled casualties, followed by the born agains.

Everyone says how unfair it is. But just stop for one moment and think. Even if they impose the same rules on car drivers it doesnt make anyone less vulnerable.

What makes us less vulnerable is OUR experience and developing OUR skills. Even if the driving standards were improved, we need to address some of the stupidity that a number of bikers display.

Soho is being disrupted by some antisocial individuals, the police are probably going to clamp down at the ace because of the bimbo on the R1. We as a group do not help ourselves or show that we can be trusted to ride sensibly and safely when the minority who are accident statistics waiting to happen is what the governments care about.

At the end of the day I really cant see why people oppose this given we really need to stop the stupidity of putting a 170bhp bike capable of 200mph [or near enough] in the hands of a 21 year old after a 3 day DAS.

[Warren]

isnt the majority of biker casualties the born again bikers ?

You obviously havent been reading SS on visordown recently have you? :P :lol:

Youngsters are the highest two wheeled casualties, followed by the born agains.

Everyone says how unfair it is. But just stop for one moment and think. Even if they impose the same rules on car drivers it doesnt make anyone less vulnerable.

What makes us less vulnerable is OUR experience and developing OUR skills. Even if the driving standards were improved, we need to address some of the stupidity that a number of bikers display.

Soho is being disrupted by some antisocial individuals, the police are probably going to clamp down at the ace because of the bimbo on the R1. We as a group do not help ourselves or show that we can be trusted to ride sensibly and safely when the minority who are accident statistics waiting to happen is what the governments care about.

At the end of the day I really cant see why people oppose this given we really need to stop the stupidity of putting a 170bhp bike capable of 200mph [or near enough] in the hands of a 21 year old after a 3 day DAS.

to be honest, i havent been reading it :)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

At the end of the day I really cant see why people oppose this given we really need to stop the stupidity of putting a 170bhp bike capable of 200mph [or near enough] in the hands of a 21 year old after a 3 day DAS.

We dont really need to stop the stupidity of stopping 21 year olds getting busas and the like. Even if we assume that it's the governments business to interfere, which it isnt, 21 year olds on busas dont make up a significant proportion of casualties. 21 year olds may, but not on powerful bikes. You only need to look at scoot riders who are quite capable of getting themselves killed on machines with 5bhp for evidence of that.

Gnan: Good quote. Although Franklin was right, there is a fundamental difference between his time and the present. People live far longer now, and are far less likely to take the slightest risk that may result in their dull lives being shortened.

[Warren]

the motorcycle isnt dangerous,

it can be kept in a garage for years and not hurt anyone.

put it in the wrong hands, and it will.


like a gun, doesnt matter if you got a small one, or a big one, given to the wrong person, they will do damage.

[lukemillar]

I don't think it will make a big difference to accident figures. As someone pointed out, most bikes/scooters are capable of 70 mph and out accelerating most cars. It is the person sitting on it who is dangerous and that comes down to a lack of training and attitude.

The DAS course (despite being short) actually gives you more hours of training than most people probably do in single hour lessons for learning to drive a car (for me anyway) I had a lot of respect for my instructors and listened to everything they said. I think initiatives like Bikesafe are a much better way of educating people and reducing casulties than restricting licences.

I'm sure a lot of you will agree with this; I think the biggest 2 wheeled hazard on the road is any scooter/ bike with L plates. One day of training (mainly off the road) and away they go.

At the end of the day you will always get the bimbo on the R1 (I would love to hear the whole story on that one!) and the chav on his scooter with no licence, and unfortunately these are the people everyone notices, not the 1000s of bikers who rarely put a wheel wrong.

[Ceri JC]

Soho is being disrupted by some antisocial individuals, the police are probably going to clamp down at the ace because of the bimbo on the R1. We as a group do not help ourselves or show that we can be trusted to ride sensibly and safely when the minority who are accident statistics waiting to happen is what the governments care about.



I think part of the problem is the way that bikers (probably because we're a minority) are lumped together, and what one does reflects badly on the whole lot of us. You get idiots in cars doing just as dangerous things, but because most people drive, they don't see those sort of people as anything to do with them, or other car drivers. Unfortunately, whilst we are quick to distance ourselves from uninsured/unlicenced chavs on scooters, people on supermotos wheelieing past schools and people on hyperbikes doing 180 on the motorway, most non-bikers cannot, or rather will not, make that distinction. They don't see the person as "a bad apple", they just see them as another biker.

It's hardly suprisingly really. Careful, considerate riders are barely registered (even if the cager sees them, there's no reason to make a mental note of their presence and they're soon past). People who wheelie past on the inside at a ton, with a full race can with the baffles out, understandably stick in their memories for longer.

[DanAbnormal]

I think it's total ********. They have acted on totally misused statistics. They say that bikes make up only 1% of the traffic on UK road yet make up 18% of casualties. What they don't then go onto explain is that nearly 70% of those motorcycle casualties were killed by other road users. So the answer to them is to remove bikes therefore remove the probelm even though bikes are not the problwm to begin with. Bloody ridiculous. It will have an impact as there will be less riders and then they will go on to claim that the scheme has worked but all those dangerous car/lorry drivers will still be out there. The only consolation is that these dangerous drviers will carry on killing each other ridding society of there incompetence. I'm all for making biking safer but the goverment are only out to persecute us as we are a minority. But then this is nothing new either. If it becomes too bad I think I will emigrate to a country where the government don't plan to screw you over at every turn.

[Nick762]

Reminds me a bit of the similar row about the number of 16-19 y/o car drivers who are killing themselves rising while the number of licence holders in that age group has actually fallen...

Hang on, maybe there's a clue there somewhere