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andy
03-04-06, 06:48 PM
Opinions please.

I have just bought a helmet online and it is exactly what I wanted and fits perfectly.

I am thinking of returning it because I am slightly worried for 2 reasons.

1. There is a tiny 10mm scratch on it - implying it has been handled clumsily. I am not so bothered about this as there is no way the scratch itself is any indication of damage likely to be dangerous.

2. The helmet arrived at mine inside its own flimsy bag, indside its own flimsy box inside another perfectly fitting slightly less flimsy box - eg no foam or impact protection at all.

How do they normally post helmets? Should I be worried? There is no sign whatsoever of damage to the helmet (apart from the scratch - no way caused while the helmet was in the box), would there be?

Any opinions greatly received.

Thanks

PS - has anyone bought a helmet mail order? If so, how was it packaged?

kwak zzr
03-04-06, 06:52 PM
i would accept a helmet that wasnt packed in foam but its the scratch i wouldnt be happy with, i bought a helmet from infinity motorcycles mail order but it was packed really well.

kwak zzr
03-04-06, 06:53 PM
the first one i recived was too small so i sent it back for a replacement, it cost me £10 to post it back tho.

Steve W
03-04-06, 07:17 PM
I bought one from Designer Helmets - not packed in foam but carefully packed clean as a (red) whistle...

GC-SV
03-04-06, 07:19 PM
Always a problem when you go the mail order route.

I too would not be too happy about the scratch and would give them a call to see if they can replace it.
Postage is usually sorted by through the courier. That is what happened when I received a full race can instead of a road legal one. They told me to repack it and the courier would pick it up, then they sent me the replacement.

If you can accept the scratch you could always ask for a bit of discount.

jonboy
03-04-06, 08:12 PM
I really wouldn't worry about it, it's highly unlikely it's been dropped from a great height, and tests by Bike magazine showed that only a three metre drop on to concrete made a helmet unsafe, so if it's been slightly manhandled I don't think it'd be great cause for concern.

As for the scratch, well that's one of the reasons I'd never buy anything like that mail order. The return postage would likely be more than it's worth I suggest.

Stick it on your head and go ride your bike ;).

.

Ceri JC
04-04-06, 09:01 AM
I really wouldn't worry about it, it's highly inlikely it's been dropped from a great height, and tests by Bike magazine showed that only a three metre drop on to concrete made a helmet unsafe, so if it's been slightly manhandled I don't think it'd be great cause for concern.

As for the scratch, well that's one of the reasons I'd never buy anything like that mail order. The return postage would likely be more than it's worth I suggest.

Stick it on your head and go ride your bike ;).

.

^ My POV too.

andy
04-04-06, 02:05 PM
I thought you may be interested in my correspondance with the importer.

***** My initial email *****

Dear Sales,

I have just purchased my 3rd xxxxx helmet, this time an xxxxx. I am equally as pleased with this one as my others.

However, because I know my size so well and because I wanted the Matt black one which is hard to get in this country I had to purchase it online and get it specially delivered from Europe via courier.

The helmet arrived not packaged to the standards I consider acceptable for such an important item and would appreciate your opinion on the matter before I decide whether or not to return it.

The packaging was as follows. The helmet was inside its xxxxx bag, inside its xxxxx box, inside another similar well fitting box. No foam or anything.

My concern is if the helmet had been subject to a drop during transit there would be below adequate protection and any damage may not be visible.

Also, the helmet has a thin 10mm long scratch on it which must have been done with the helmet out of its box – would you consider this kind of damage acceptable?

What do xxxxx advise their online suppliers with regard to packaging?

Your help will be appreciated.

Thanks

Andy

***** Their reply *****

Hi Andy

Thankyou for your email.

Our packaging recommendations are for each helmet to be place in 1 xxxxx helmet bag which is then placed in 1 xxxxx helmet box and then 1 outer box for transporting.

We have found this method over the years of sending 1000's of helmets has been sufficient.

One of the reasons for not sending Matt Black helmets in the UK is due to the helmet itself not having a coat of protective lacquer as the Gloss Black helmets do. The Matt Black has no protective coat like the Gloss and is therefore prone to marking easily, specially in transit.

Please check the outer box for damage to indicate any serious impact, as safety is everything.

If you would like a second opinion then feel free to email us an image.

Hope this helps

Best regards

Andrew Thompson

***** My response *****

Hi Andrew,

The outer box appears undamaged, however the inner box has obviously been dropped onto its corner as it is crumpled. The outer box only had my name on it so I assume it must have had a different outer box at some point during its journey.

I am not bothered by the small scratch from a safety point of view – not ideal cosmetically but as I cannot get another matt one easily I will have to live with it.

I understand about the lack of lacquer – thanks for explaining that to me.

My biggest concern is, if the box had been dropped during transit onto one of its flat faces, then due to the fact that there is very little padding, the helmet would take the majority of the impact, possibly resulting in a dangerous helmet with no way of telling (no scratches due to the box?) – I am very surprised that you consider this an acceptable way of transporting a helmet, when most items posted these days are largely overpacked and overprotected.

Can you guarantee that this helmet did not receive such an impact, or if it did, the protection it offers to my head in the event of an accident will not be compromised in any way?

Thanks

Andy

***** *****

I await a reply. I cannot beleive that their only form of dangerous impact protection is to "check the box for signs of damage" - dont really sound thorough enough to me, especially as the box can be changed.....

I have removed the company name, I will name and shame if they do not do what I consider fair, so far the customer service has been excellent.

Ceri JC
04-04-06, 02:56 PM
It's true what he says about matt black lids marking easily. A few stores I've spoken to have cited that as a reason for not stocking them. I've got a matt black caberg v2.

Spiderman
04-04-06, 04:50 PM
I only ever got one helmet in the post and it was packaged just as you describe.

However mine was a freebie for subscribing to TWO magazine so i really wasnt bother about how a FREE lid was packaged.

TBH, i wouldnt worry too much about it and i sure as hell would not pay to return it for a 10mm scratch, unless the scratch was all the way to the base of the lid and therefor stood out a lot.

Just mho :)

Filipe M.
04-04-06, 04:54 PM
It's true what he says about matt black lids marking easily. A few stores I've spoken to have cited that as a reason for not stocking them. I've got a matt black caberg v2.

Hmm... I can understand the lack of the protective lacquer layer, but I'd say it greatly depends on the helmet (make) itself; I've got two matt black helmets, a Caberg Brutus (which is more of a matt dark gray with go faster stripes) and a Roof Boxer, between them they have about a year of daily riding and they both look mint (except for a little scratch on the Boxer's visor - close encounter with a not so smoothly finished wall :evil: ).

andy
04-04-06, 06:23 PM
Thanks for the replies guys, I really want to keep it and I am not bothered about the scratch - I just cannot forget about the unknown journeys in backs of vans with ****ed off couriers inside a flimsy box! Sods law says is will be one of them who makes me test out the helmets integrity :-)

I have looked and looked at the top of the helmet (the only place it is really likely to have had a hit) and I cannot see a mark or ripple or anything on it - but, if the safety was compromised, would I see anything?

I suppose I am really surprised that it seems the norm to post them without much protection - maybe they just dont need it?

At least it fits well and looks good (in my opinion anyway!)

mynameis
04-04-06, 06:31 PM
How do you think the one's in the shops are delivered, whats to say they have n't been dropped on route?

andy
05-04-06, 07:40 AM
How do you think the one's in the shops are delivered, whats to say they have n't been dropped on route?

Never really thought, but I would assume a lot would be delivered at once and therefore the courier would at least know to be careful - mine did not even have fragile on the box.

If manufacturers are so insistant on replacing the helmet in the event of an impact surely they should be far better protected in transit as an impact may never even be known about.

Maybe it is just me........

andy
06-04-06, 12:44 PM
No, it is official, it is not me!

After a number of non commital emails from the importer, I finally got to talk to them on the phone.

Very interesting.

He admitted that I had uncovered an important safety issue in their transport procedures and were taking immediate action with the manufacturer to rectify (basically better padded boxes and bags).

I am not sure if I believe him about the better packaging in the future, but you never know.........

He also has arranged for mine to be independently X-ray'd and certified at their expense with an ACU approved testing house.

I also cannot believe that nobody else working in the importers or manufacturers have had this concern - it seems so obvious to me (and anyone else with a brain?)

First and last time I buy a helmet online.........

jonboy
06-04-06, 01:16 PM
TBH I thnk that's a bit of a result, them paying for an X-ray and all, good for you.


.

andy
06-04-06, 01:18 PM
Only what is needed - they are the negligent ones.

Wouldnt it be interesting if it failed.........

SV650Racer
07-04-06, 09:11 AM
The Shoei Raid 2 in Matt black doesnt mark easily.

When we post out helmets i always stuff the helmet box full of bubble wrap and then place it inside another box with a layer of plastic bags around it.

TBH it is always best when you can to purchase from a shop although in this case you couldnt.


Reasons being you can check the helmet prior to purchase for any defects.
You can ensure the fit is correct as not all helmets fit the same.
You are then assured that it hasnt been bounced around the back of a transit van..BUT as helmets are delivered to shops by courier you can always be assured that this hasnt happened.

JakeRS
07-04-06, 09:13 AM
I would say dont do it, the helmet I bought off the internet (takachi TK100) was absolute sh*te in my accident, when the strap actually managed to loosen meaning the lid came off my head leaving me to smash my head on the floor and do biiiiig damage...

I wouldnt do it...

SV650Racer
07-04-06, 09:41 AM
I suspect your strap loosening has nothing to do with how Andy's lid will fair.

Why did the strap come loose?. Was it a double D strap or seat belt buckle type. Not hooked in properly on the adjustment strap?.

TBH any helmet made in China isnt worth it. Takachi to name one of them.

In some cases your better off spending that little bit more.

I race and wouldnt put my head in a Takachi for racing. IMHO of course :wink:

andy
07-04-06, 09:52 AM
TBH any helmet made in China isnt worth it. Takachi to name one of them.

During my discussion with the importer, they told me that my helmet is now made in China - it used to be made in Europe.

Mine is a mid range helmet, not a cheapy, and I expressed concern that it was now made in China, I was told it is only the plastic ones that are a problem - no idea how true that is.

I am going to write a letter to MCN highlighting this issue (that of poor packing and transport procedures) as I think it is pretty important - not becuase of my case but because of the hundereds or thousands of other unsuspecting helmet users.

I used to work at PIRA (The Packaging Industry Research Assoc) who do package testing and design for many multinationals and small companies. Gillette took far more care over the packaging of their disposable razors to ensure they arrive in top condition than it seems most helmet manufacturers do with an item that should not be subjected to impacts by their own rules - that is simply wrong.

I am uncertain whether to name and shame - I cannot make my mind up if it is fair or not as I doubt they are the only ones.

SV650Racer
07-04-06, 10:13 AM
naming and shaming wont do much good i am afraid.

The problem with items being made in china is due to the fact that they are now made there because costs are lower. Quality control is also less.

When it comes to your head its a very important decision when it comes to buying a helmet.

You need to know that its been made by a company that dedicates itself to continuos testing, strict quality control measures and doesnt scrimp on costs to make a bigger profit. Id always suggest to buy the best you can and always advise my customers of that alongside Fit being the most important criteria.

Obviously some people cant afford £300 plus but remember it should last you a good few years and miles, be comfy, fit well, last well and have a good back up to come with it.

I have hit my head hard in a fair few crashes now so understand how important this all is.

You only have one head so look after it. :wink:

Moo
07-04-06, 10:22 AM
No would never buy a helmet online.

jkchops
07-04-06, 11:20 PM
I only ever got one helmet in the post and it was packaged just as you describe.

However mine was a freebie for subscribing to TWO magazine so i really wasnt bother about how a FREE lid was packaged.

TBH, i wouldnt worry too much about it and i sure as hell would not pay to return it for a 10mm scratch, unless the scratch was all the way to the base of the lid and therefor stood out a lot.

Just mho :)

I did the same thing with getting the free TWO helmet and agree exactly with what you are saying about returning the helmet with a relatively small scratch.

I would do what you are doing though in that i would complain to see what they say and what they would do. If they dont sort it out as what you see fair then i would shame then, not order from them again and make sure they know you will be tellling others about this 'bad' incident with your helmet.

Stig
07-04-06, 11:43 PM
No would never buy a helmet online.

Same here. 99% of the helmet retailers state that once the helmet has left their premises it can not be exchanged due to the fact they do not know what has happened to that helmet.

Peter Henry
08-04-06, 07:08 AM
I have to go with the general consensus of buying a helmet in a shop rather than online. The internet is a usefull tool for many purchases but not to my mind for something as vital as a crash helmet.

Mark my words that there will come a day when people will be saying..."Why is there no place that I can walk in to and look at the products I want to buy.Maybe ask an assistant for their advice etc?" All of that will be too late as retail outlets may well have given up the ghost of competing with online sellers that carry minimal over heads. :?

Just my personal opinion of course.

mburnstead
08-04-06, 08:36 PM
I have to go with the general consensus of buying a helmet in a shop rather than online. The internet is a usefull tool for many purchases but not to my mind for something as vital as a crash helmet.


I bought mine online (in fact, from an eBay store!) after trying a few on whilst at a bike show without my wallet (dumbass! :oops: )

But I know my head is a perfect fit for a Shoei size M helmet, and having tried on at the show the XR-1000 I ended up getting from eBay, I did at least know the fit wasn't going to be an issue.

People's experiences may vary of course, but my lid turned up in perfect condition and well packed, and at £209 delivered, was about £100 cheaper than a shop price. So since I knew it was going to fit perfectly, the saving was well worth it.

andy
23-05-06, 06:15 PM
I thought I would post the final outcome to this, I will keep it short.

Basically they picked up the helmet to xray it and promised it will be done in 2 weeks. After 3 weeks I phoned them and asked where it was. They said it was just on its way back to me (coincidental - yeh right). So I asked if it has passed and had its certificate, yes was the reply. The next day I got an email telling me that they had even better news and that was that they had managed to source me another helmet. The other helmet arrived and it definately was not the one I sent them (remember this is a difficult to get in this country colour). So I wonder what happened to the original (possibly unsafe) helmet and I wonder if they even did xray it?

Bloody dodgy liars, and the worst thing is that they are possibly playing with peoples lives......

Biker Biggles
23-05-06, 07:54 PM
They probably dropped it while doing the Xray. :lol:
I've just bought a lid online and it arrived today.Went to the BMF on Sunday and my boy was looking for a lid.He wanted a Shoei X spirit but struggles with the £480 RRP,so we tried to get one of last year's paint schemes but I thought prices were high.Having bought mine for £300 at the NEC we decided to use the same shop (Helmet City) via the net.£300 +£10 P&P.It arrived by courier today and is perfect.Packaging was like yours,with lid in own box and bag all in an outer cardboard box.

BigDog
23-05-06, 09:23 PM
If it is new why has it been taken out of the box ?

I also have a matt black caberg V2 and also a silver one, the silver one was bought on-line and it was packaged with polystyrene wedges it was also unopened as it should be.

Quiff Wichard
23-05-06, 10:04 PM
can you cover the scratch with black insulation tape?

andy
24-05-06, 06:50 AM
can you cover the scratch with black insulation tape?

p!ss off :-)