View Full Version : speeding ticket! no way!
socommk23
01-05-06, 12:18 PM
out for a run with friend yesturday... down fav road...ok going a little quick but nothing stupid...infact be hard to say ever went more than 60 cos of traffic....got pulled over and copper said.."i was doing 80 to 85mph to catch up with you"
and then put "80 to 85mph" on the ticket!
just one copper on a bike...no cammera or evidence shown! just read off his speedo!
im taking this one to court!
(80 to 85mph to catch up...if i was doing that he wouldnt have caught up! and no way anyone could do 100 on that road which he would have had to to catch us if we were doing that speed!)
graphikill
01-05-06, 12:43 PM
80 to 85mph to catch up with you"
im taking this one to court!
let us know the outcome....
if he had to be doing 80-85 miles an hour to catch you that doesnt mean thats the speed you where going.....
that slike saying if you satrt at point A... and he starts at point B 200 yards away and you both go the same speed he will arrive at teh same time at point c.... well those 5-0 aint teh brightest bulbs in the box
Was he all resplendant in white, reflective yellow and blue or was he 'plain clothes'?
Flamin_Squirrel
01-05-06, 12:46 PM
I believe that the copper does indeed have the power to give you a ticket based on his word and that alone.
Don't worry, irritations like 'evidence' and 'due proccess' are expensive and stop the government acheiving their targets, and allow them to waste money elsewhere.
After all, only the guilty have anything to fear :roll:
amarko5
01-05-06, 01:12 PM
i have had the same lecture but i was in the car and it was a woman in a van .
she said " i was doing 45 to catch you up" I said But i turned out of the turning 2 cars in front of you so by the time you had got out of the turning and raced after me overtaken 2 cars , then yes you would have to do 45.
i then asked why she had chased me and the reply was your brakelight on the drivers side flickered from on to off WTF .
anyway i replied well thank you for informing me about the light i will fix it when i get home as i have a spare bulb.
her reply your going nowhere until i issue you a ticket for speeding :shock:
my reply by what method did you determine i was speeding :?:
her reply I had to do 45 to catch you .
here we go round and round again i explain the laws of physics , she checks with a colleague over radio, i listen in :lol: colleague says you stupid woman the guys right now stop being a tart and come and collect me.
she parts with a nice " Ill be watching for you" :lol:
don't think you will have much of a problem if you get a decent brief when u take it to court.
:x Obviously the copper missed his 'Coffee and Doughnut(s)' break!!
Take it to court,They have to PROVE you were speeding,and has been stated,you would have been going slower than 85mph for him to catch you! Tit!
Similar thing happened to me,accused of being parked on 'white zig-zag lines on entrane to zebra crossing' (that's how Entrance was spelt on the Fixed penalty ticket I was issued with,literacy is obviously not a requirement in the police),which I wasn't,I was in a traffic-jam!
Anyway,went to court,defended myself,and won! I even got to cross-examine the police officer,which was great,he ended up looking like a complete incompetent idiot. Especially when I asked him to clarify whether I was parked on zig-zags or not,as his statement said I was parked on a zebra-crossing and ticket said zig-zags.
He subsequently couldn't remember.
The officer said to me after that if everyone was to appeal against the tickets and fines etc,most of them would be thrown out of court,due to lack of evidence,and the time taken to gather evidence to prosecute for a £30.00 fine and 3 points.
So go for it mate!
Warthog
01-05-06, 01:53 PM
that sounds totally unfair, hope you sort it out quickly and painlessly!
I guess you failed the attitude test then :wink: :P :lol:
Certainly if he had to do 80-85 to catch you up that means you cant have been going that fast.
Basic physics isnt it? If he matched your speed he wouldnt have caught you up. :roll: :?
Get a good brief and you should be sorted. Or try getting advice from that website whos name escapes me but a more knowledgeable person will no doubt post the link. :oops:
Or try getting advice from that website whos name escapes me but a more knowledgeable person will no doubt post the link. :oops:
http://www.pepipoo.com/
I'm a person, but not knowledgeable. The first thing I remembered it as was PloppyPoo. Anyway, there it is...
Good luck - sounds incredibly unfair. And wrong.
454697819
01-05-06, 07:08 PM
out for a run with friend yesturday... down fav road...ok going a little quick but nothing stupid...infact be hard to say ever went more than 60 cos of traffic....got pulled over and copper said.."i was doing 80 to 85mph to catch up with you"
and then put "80 to 85mph" on the ticket!
just one copper on a bike...no cammera or evidence shown! just read off his speedo!
im taking this one to court!
(80 to 85mph to catch up...if i was doing that he wouldnt have caught up! and no way anyone could do 100 on that road which he would have had to to catch us if we were doing that speed!)
Just thought id add, that if they give you a ticket off there speedo, they forst have to track you, there has to be two of them in the car to agree that you are speeding, and additionally they have to then have the tacho checked asap to prove its callibrated, i do then belive if none of thoses things have been done, they cannot charge you.
Hope that helps,
Alex
Spiderman
01-05-06, 07:25 PM
Ah, dont you just love :plod: some days.
I wonder if he'd had to do a stoppie to stop next to you... would he have said you did one too? :lol:
Jelster
01-05-06, 08:29 PM
What was the speed limit on the road you were on, and how long was he doing 80-85 to catch you up ? If you know the answer to these 2 questions you can assertain if you were speeding.
Did he just nick you for speeding, or was there anything else, were you on your own ? and can you honestly say you were riding responsibly at the time ?
.
GSXR Carlos
01-05-06, 11:29 PM
i had a traffic cop come after me one time and they were in a car, i'd set off from some lights, he said he was doing 80 to catch me, i pleaded ignorant to my spped, and he told me to take it easy as there wasn't much they could do
sounds like he was just ****ed off for some reason, maybe cos you were out playing and he was working
good luck, defo fight it
Sid Squid
02-05-06, 07:16 AM
Just thought id add, that if they give you a ticket off there speedo, they forst have to track you, there has to be two of them in the car to agree that you are speeding, and additionally they have to then have the tacho checked asap to prove its callibrated, i do then belive if none of thoses things have been done, they cannot charge you.Not so, if the officer suspects you of excess speed, the speedo is the corroboration, no other officers needed. The cailbration of the speedo will only be checked if you ask for it - not the accuracy of the instrument, they check only when it was last calibrated such that it's within a certain period.
I believe that the copper does indeed have the power to give you a ticket based on his word and that alone.Correct.
After all, only the guilty have anything to fear :roll:Also entirely true, the 'Bill never screw up 'cos they're utterly infallible, and they never apply 'attitude tests' to see if you ought to be prosecuted, nevereverevereverever no-how.
Warlock
02-05-06, 07:26 AM
Thought this might help
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/how.htm
socommk23
02-05-06, 11:09 AM
What was the speed limit on the road you were on, and how long was he doing 80-85 to catch you up ? If you know the answer to these 2 questions you can assertain if you were speeding.
Did he just nick you for speeding, or was there anything else, were you on your own ? and can you honestly say you were riding responsibly at the time ?
.
speed limit on the road is 60!
and enough traffic to slow a slow person down..there is honestly no way that on that road could either me or my friend have broken the limit on that road on that day in that traffic! his words were "i had to do 80-85 to catch up with you"
this road is very windy and at no point could you reach such speeds and slow down for every corner safely with that amount of traffic.
we did overtake a few very slow vehicles at points on the road we deemed safe to do so, and he threatened to do my friend for driving without due care and attention if he argued it there and then as a responce to him asking what we were being done for!
if we were doing 80 to 85 and he caught us he must have been doing in the region of 100mph! and that is deffinatly not possible! no part of the road is long enough let alone safe enough!
so to court it will go!
Ceri JC
02-05-06, 11:19 AM
As others have said, sadly for speeding, the normal "rules" of the law regarding evidence etc. seem to go out of the window. The situation you described is fairly common (have a look on pepipoo). Essentially, a copper sees you going what they deem "a bit quick", nails it to catch up with you, then cites their own top speed during the catching up as somehow something to do with your speed. Irrespective of the fact that of course, as others have pointed out, you couldn't have been doing that speed, or else he'd not catch you. :roll:
I've even heard of people mistaking the fastly approaching unmarked car/bike in the distance in their mirrors as just an aggressive driver and have sped up to get out of their way (IE complete their overtake sooner and get back to the inside lane quicker, to get out of the way) and for this to not wash in court either.
Hope you come out okay. Best of luck fighting it, if that's what you choose to do.
socommk23
02-05-06, 11:23 AM
What road was that on?
back of ports down hill! boarhunt road is where i was stopped!
Thought this might help
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/how.htm
wow that is interesting!
the :plod:
u got sounds like he was having a lazy day, saw bikes and thought oh there goin too fast cos thats what they do...I'll ave em!
yeah fight the system cos it sux!!! (sometimes)
good luck
C@ xx
In my younger driving days I used to get pulled all the time (also before joining the police) I got pulled for a similar thing I pulled away from the chippy in my Ford Orion 1.6i Ghia chav mobile and booted it looked in my mirror as I did so and saw a police avn so kept the speed between 30 and 35, he folloewd me to just down the road from my house and pulled me, got out of his van all moody and me with a big grin onmy face to try and wind him up as I knew he could not do me for anything I was a mechanic at the time so knew my car was fine! he asked me what speed I was doing so told him and he said I was lying so I laughed at him, which annoyed him! he said he was doing 50 to catch me up to which I replied so? he said I must have been doin 45 more laughter came hisway, I said to him have you got anything in your van that tells you my speed or are you just guesing mine? he told me to watch my speed in future had a quick look round my car and went off in a huff saying we'll have to agree to disagree, so yes some cops are a**holes!! had police threaten me with alsorts when I was younger but I had an interest in any law that could affect me when driving and being a mechanic and boy racer I wantd to know how to stay on the right side of the law. :D I'm less cocky now though. :twisted: Cleveland police seem to have an attitude problem, only came accross one nice one twice so far! :roll:
younger days? I'm only 26 now! :lol: old in the head!
Red ones
02-05-06, 03:05 PM
I had this once. I was doing "well over 100" I clocked the fact that the PC had to catch up with me and I had backed off when I first saw him. Fortunately I was wide awake even though it was 4am.
"Do you know why I pulled you?"
"Speeding?"
"Yes"
"You were doing well over 100,"
"How fast was I going?"
"Very"
I said "Are you sure?"
His reply? "What type of car is this?"
ready for this?? "It's a diesel Austin Maestro"
(google for the performance figures!)
I had this once. I was doing "well over 100" I clocked the fact that the PC had to catch up with me and I had backed off when I first saw him. Fortunately I was wide awake even though it was 4am.
"Do you know why I pulled you?"
"Speeding?"
"Yes"
"You were doing well over 100,"
"How fast was I going?"
"Very"
I said "Are you sure?"
His reply? "What type of car is this?"
ready for this?? "It's a diesel Austin Maestro"
(google for the performance figures!)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
My first car was a petrol austin maestro (1.6)... Felt like it was going to fall apart at 90mph... :lol:
lukemillar
02-05-06, 03:30 PM
Since we are on speeding stories...
I was driving back from work on a saturday evening and my mate Dan, who lived round the corner from me, was following. We crossed a roundabout into the village I lived in and I noticed a police car crossing on the other side. My rear windscreen was caked in crap and I could only make out headlights. I notice 2 headlights pull out and then pull back in again. I think "Dan you idiot, you are never going to overtake me from back there". Actually, it was the police who had come the whole way round the roundabout pulling in between us.
Now on the last road before Dan and I go our separate ways, we often liked to have a bit of a tussle. As soon as we turn, the cars' headlights start to flash. I assume it is Dan up for a race and floor it. It was a 30mph residential area and the car behind me keeps up, continuing to flash his headlights. I get up to about 75 when he sticks his blue lights on. :shock:
I pull over and for some reason they pull over Dan as well (even though he hadn't done anything wrong)One policeman lays into Dan big time, shouting at him etc whereas the one talking to me says:
"Do you know how fast you were going?"
"about 30mph!"
"I think you were going a bit faster than that"
Then their radio goes and they have to leg it back to the car and drive off. Didn't even have a chance to give me a warning!
:D
(I was only 17 and a bit of an idiot!)
ryancor
02-05-06, 03:33 PM
There is no way you will have to fork out for that ticket. When the ticket is issued the Police Officer should give you the choice of accepting the ticket or reporting you on the spot. If the ticket is issued you then have 28 days to pay the fine and 7 days to take your licence to the Police Station (if the PC didn't seize it at the side of the road?). Within that 28 day period you need to contact your local courts (address at the bottom of the ticket) and tell them you intend to dispute the speed. A court date will then be set. IMO it won't even get to court. The local Police's ticket office will gather the evidence, in the form of a statement from the officer, and decide if there is enough evidence to proceed. In this case there is a distinct lack of it. If you do happen to end up in court though then make sure you ask how the officer judged your speed and ask when the last time his speedo was calibrated. I bet it hasn't been done since new, unless it's a traffic car in which case it would have a vascar system and you wouldn't be in this situation. Good luck and let us know how you get on. :D
Flamin_Squirrel
02-05-06, 03:36 PM
I had this once. I was doing "well over 100" I clocked the fact that the PC had to catch up with me and I had backed off when I first saw him. Fortunately I was wide awake even though it was 4am.
"Do you know why I pulled you?"
"Speeding?"
"Yes"
"You were doing well over 100,"
"How fast was I going?"
"Very"
I said "Are you sure?"
His reply? "What type of car is this?"
ready for this?? "It's a diesel Austin Maestro"
(google for the performance figures!)
I vagely remember a story like this. Man arrested for some truely outrageous speed (140mph or something) in a clapped out car clearly incapable of reaching that of which he was accused. Knowing the police were talking ********, he faught it. However the police didn't take it lying down, and before exhonerating himself, he'd had to pay for tests to prove the car couldn't manage the alleged speed, and lost his job in the proccess of defending himself.
Another speeding story,
Was heading home on the A40 back to Wales. It was getting dusk, I had my tinted visor on and had forgot to carry with me the clear one, so wanted to make speed and get home before it got completely dark. I came up to a roundabout at a fair lick ended up directly behind a car. The car went round the roundabout rather slowly and unlucky for me turned onto the same road that I needed.
This road was a 50MPH limit, the road was empty, but this car stuck at exactly 45MPH. I couldn't overtake as there were double white lines and these lines went on for quite a while. Eventually the white lines changed from solid to broken. Dropped a gear and shot off into the distance.
With a glance into my mirror I notice that the car's headlights are still in view. Typical I think, he holds me up for god knows how long and now he wants a race. Not a problem, there are some twisty bits ahead.
Head down into the twisties, check mirror and no sign of headlights. Hah too easy. I ease off as a village is coming up. As I enter the village the headlights of the car reappeared in my mirrors.
Only this time the headlights are flashing alternately and they are accompanied blue flashing lights in the grill. BUGGER!!!
I pulled over in a bus stop and take my helmet off, feeling rather pee'd off. He comes up and says "Are you really trying to tell me that all the time that you were stuck behind me that you did not twig that this was an unmarked car? Did the tell tail signs such as the twin aerials, the two rear view mirrors, not to mention the fluorescent jacket with blue tabs on, really not give you any idea?"
Well they didn't, remember it's getting dusk, I have my tinted visor on and all I'm thinking about is getting home before it gets proper dark and I get pulled for having a dark visor at night.
We discussed (he lectured, I listened) my driving speeds. He was impressed that I had waited until the double white lines had ended before I over took, even though (and we both agreeded) there would have been opportunities that I could have done so safely. Also that even though I was not hanging around in the twisties that I slowed down to the 30MPH limit for the village.
In the end I got 3 points for doing 70MPH in a 50 zone and a £30 fine. We both knew that I was exceeding that speed by considerably more than that. So although I was kicking myself for being so dumb, I was thankful that it was not worse.
argatxa
02-05-06, 08:55 PM
bugger!!! I was stopped a few months ago in the M4..... and today the summoning for the court appearance got into my post....
"103.7 average for a period of 0.3 miles.. ", ](*,) ](*,)
and I was planning to go on a two weeks trip to Spain/Portugal with the bike... should I continue with the plan and risking having a ban in the last minute or just throw the trip plan over my shoulder?
bu***r!!
soo.... do I need a lawyer to lessen the inevitable slap on my wrist/license/bank account or am I stuffed straight away?
:(
What road was that on?
back of ports down hill! boarhunt road is where i was stopped!
Know it well - used to live in Fareham - would appear as though PC chap didn't get his leg over this weekend!! Not a chance of getting near a ton on that road...in traffic!
SVeeedy Gonzales
03-05-06, 09:37 AM
I'm pretty sure a lone copper does not have the power to do a speeding ticket on just their say-so. It has to be two coppers or one and some other evidence such as a camera or radar, or video+a certified accurate speedo record on their vehicle. If he doesn't have the extra evidence (and by the sound of it, even if he had the equipment it won't prove you were doing anything wrong) then you should be in the clear.
fraser01
03-05-06, 10:10 AM
What road was that on?
back of ports down hill! boarhunt road is where i was stopped!
Let me know who the officer was and i will go speak to them, not promising anything but it wont do any harm to find out whats going on.
Regards
Rich
What road was that on?
back of ports down hill! boarhunt road is where i was stopped!
Let me know who the officer was and i will go speak to them, not promising anything but it wont do any harm to find out whats going on.
Regards
Rich
Hows that for a offer... :D
What road was that on?
back of ports down hill! boarhunt road is where i was stopped!
Let me know who the officer was and i will go speak to them, not promising anything but it wont do any harm to find out whats going on.
Regards
Rich
Hows that for a offer... :D
Pretty decent.
.
Ceri JC
03-05-06, 12:35 PM
:thumbsup: to fraser01.
socommk23
03-05-06, 08:10 PM
cheers for all your help and encouragement and the stories!
cheers again guys!
will keep you informed.
Just thought id add, that if they give you a ticket off there speedo, they forst have to track you, there has to be two of them in the car to agree that you are speeding, and additionally they have to then have the tacho checked asap to prove its callibrated, i do then belive if none of thoses things have been done, they cannot charge you.Not so, if the officer suspects you of excess speed, the speedo is the corroboration, no other officers needed. The cailbration of the speedo will only be checked if you ask for it - not the accuracy of the instrument, they check only when it was last calibrated such that it's within a certain period.
I believe that the copper does indeed have the power to give you a ticket based on his word and that alone.Correct.
That can't be right can it?
How can it be that a lone police officer, with no instrument for measuring the speed of your vehicle can be allowed to 'estimate' your speed where it might lead to a conviction?
I can't believe that it's a legal position that Police officers are considered capable of inferring merely by LOOKING the relative speed of two moving vehicles at varying distances.
fraser01
06-05-06, 09:05 AM
Just thought id add, that if they give you a ticket off there speedo, they forst have to track you, there has to be two of them in the car to agree that you are speeding, and additionally they have to then have the tacho checked asap to prove its callibrated, i do then belive if none of thoses things have been done, they cannot charge you.Not so, if the officer suspects you of excess speed, the speedo is the corroboration, no other officers needed. The cailbration of the speedo will only be checked if you ask for it - not the accuracy of the instrument, they check only when it was last calibrated such that it's within a certain period.
I believe that the copper does indeed have the power to give you a ticket based on his word and that alone.Correct.
That can't be right can it?
How can it be that a lone police officer, with no instrument for measuring the speed of your vehicle can be allowed to 'estimate' your speed where it might lead to a conviction?
I can't believe that it's a legal position that Police officers are considered capable of inferring merely by LOOKING the relative speed of two moving vehicles at varying distances.
Certain police vehicles have calibrated speedos, so if i am following behind you then it will be easy to see if your breaking the speed limit. Remember 1mph over the limit is an offence. What socommk23 is saying is that the police officer wrote down what speed he was doing to catch the two motorcyclists.
Hmm, I understand the principle - but unless they maintain a constant relative position while judging your speed the speed of their vehicle in comparison to yours has to be variable. As here, if they have to do 85 to catch you it doesn't enable them to be sure whether you were doing 61-80, but it will make a significant difference to what happens to you. Fair enough 1 mile an hour over the limit is still speeding but the pursuing officers 'interpretation' of where you were on the scale between 1 mile an hour over and 20 miles an hour over could have serious implications for your punishment.
Obviously you know the law! But I'm surprised there's not a need for a greater burden of proof in order to convict against the offense.
wheelnut
19-07-06, 12:40 PM
I have less and less faith in plod, plastic policemen and community support plod doing the right thing. The roads are being terrorised by these new highway agency patrols pretending to be plod.
I was stopped by a very damp behind the ears kid in a panda car. He was driving the car, his colleague was slighly older.
I was driving my 44tonne truck and he came past me just after I had left a roundabout on a dual carriageway.
"You were going a bit fast around that roundabout" said He. I looked at him to see if he was being sarcastic, no, he was serious. In my opinion he explained you were driving in a dangerous manner.
And in your opinion, how long have you held a class one HGV licence? I havent got one he said, but I am a police driver.
His mate then told him not to be such a stupid pillock and stop wasting my time.
I bet he had been bullied at play school
Flamin_Squirrel
19-07-06, 01:22 PM
I've had a couple of... 'meetings' with the police in the last couple of months. Won't go into details, but both times I was extremely impressed at how professional and reasonable they were on both occasions.
They're not all bad.
I'm pretty sure a lone copper does not have the power to do a speeding ticket on just their say-so.
No offence, but you are wrong.
A ticket is just a ticket. nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't mean that the recipient is guity, neither does it mean that it will go to Court. Based on the evidence, the police and/or CPS my decide not to prosecute.
I've only read the first two pages of this thread but it seems to me that there's an assumption that it will result in prosection. The copper may have issued the ticket as a warning.
My advice to the recipient is "bide your time and let things develop".
I've had a couple of... 'meetings' with the police in the last couple of months. Won't go into the gory and painful details, but both times I was extremely impressed at how professional and reasonable they were as they threw me into a cell and beat the living daylights out of me with a rubber truncheon on both occasions. Apparently I should make a full recovery eventually.
See, you're too damned reasonable, Squirrel. :lol:
.
Oh, and =D> to Frazer01, but don't put your head on the block and make yourself unpopular with your colleagues, mate :thumbsup:
I assume this thread has been resurrected because he is being prosecuted
http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=42005&highlight=
Sooo confusing with 2 threads.
Looks like Fraser01's intervention didn't happen or didn't work.
I assume this thread has been resurrected because he is being prosecuted
http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=42005&highlight=
Sooo confusing with 2 threads.
Looks like Fraser01's intervention didn't happen or didn't work.
I don't think Fraser01 had any intention of 'intervening', I think it was more an offer of finding out what the score was.
I was giving Fraser01 credit for helping out a fellow SV rider if it was due, rather than being a nosy busy body sticking his nose in because he was able to. Is that what you are suggesting?
Spiderman
19-07-06, 02:41 PM
I was giving Fraser01 credit for helping out a fellow SV rider if it was due, rather than being a nosy busy body sticking his nose in because he was able to. Is that what you are suggesting?
Fraser01, for what i know of him is a very decent chap. I would say that anything he was/ did do was a helpful act and not one that would jeapordise his proffesional capacity.
I was giving Fraser01 credit for helping out a fellow SV rider if it was due, rather than being a nosy busy body sticking his nose in because he was able to. Is that what you are suggesting?
Stu -Perhaps I just read too much into your posting :lol:
I didn't want anyone to think that Fraser01 was trying to do anything 'dodgy' by 'intervening' - I agree that the fact that he offered to help is great.
Flamin_Squirrel
19-07-06, 03:27 PM
I've had a couple of... 'meetings' with the police in the last couple of months. Won't go into the gory and painful details, but both times I was extremely impressed at how professional and reasonable they were as they threw me into a cell and beat the living daylights out of me with a rubber truncheon on both occasions. Apparently I should make a full recovery eventually.
See, you're too damned reasonable, Squirrel. :lol:
.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Must have taken a knock to the head, cos I don't remember all that :lol:
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