Hughes vs. Gracie (UFC)

[rubberduckofdeath]

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[DanDare]

If I can.

Tito Ortez is King IMHO.

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Is it on Bravo?

TBH I think this will be a white wash by Hughes. He has been training properly and fighting in ufc for ages now. After seeing him on Ultimate Fighter 2 he definately proved himself, still a **** but a good trainer.
Royce has been out for a long time, and from what I understand he hasn't fought MMA for a while. He's getting old. He's a legend, but I think Hughes will take this one.

Have you been watching Ultimate Fighter season 3?

[DanDare]

Is it on Bravo?

Have you been watching Ultimate Fighter season 3?

Is that with the Brit Michael Bisping? He's pretty funny and very good at MMA.

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Is it on Bravo?

Have you been watching Ultimate Fighter season 3?

Is that with the Brit Michael Bisping? He's pretty funny and very good at MMA.

Yep that's the one. When I heard that the trainers were gonna be Tito and Ken I thought it was gonna be cool. I also thought that you'd really want to be trained by Ken. His lions den is legendary for turning out great fighters, and Tito is an arogant bloke.
How wrong was I!!!!! Tito's training is superb and he is such a great bloke. He can play great mind games and really knows how to motivate and get in peoples heads. Kens training style is awful, and he just walks out when people disagree with him. He talks too much and he got a body builder in as a nutritionist! So when you need to cut weight you eat.....steak. hmmm
Tito is the man and my opinion on him has changed greatly!

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Damn right, Tito's the man. Ken's a fool!

Ken's a fighter not a teacher, his 'brother' Frank was a much better teacher.

Tito has time for his team, whereas Ken talks too much and has no respect for his team.
Love watching Tito wind Ken up :lol:

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Well I stayed up last night to watch it and I gotta say there were some good fights. The flying knee was a great finish in one fight!
Swick was better than I thought and ended with a nice guillotine, and Diego's fight was definately different. He seems to have grown up to which is a good thing. He was always a great fighter, but he seems a lot more mature about it all now.

Hughes vs Gracie went pretty much as I expected. Although Gracie did try a few more stand up attacks before being taken to the ground. I was surprised how poor his ground defence was, but then Hughes is overly strong, and Gracie is a beanpole. Gotta say I'm glad Hughes pulled out of the armbar cos Gracie was not gonna tap, that would have been a nasty break for sure.
Hughes Dominated, but lets hope Royce is back soon.

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Yeah, really good evening of fights, top!

Looking forward to Tito vs. Shamrock now! 8)


Tito all the way!

[akbarhussain]

but lets hope Royce is back soon.

Royce was there only for the $$$$$$$$$$$ - GJJ may have formed the basis of the early UFCs, but times have changed - i doubt very much that Royce will be abck any time soon.

But on the subject of TUF3..... hoping to see mike bisping take that UFC contract. Don't think there are any others in TUF that can match him.

[Shinsei Jutsu]

but lets hope Royce is back soon.

Royce was there only for the $$$$$$$$$$$ - GJJ may have formed the basis of the early UFCs, but times have changed - i doubt very much that Royce will be abck any time soon.

But on the subject of TUF3..... hoping to see mike bisping take that UFC contract. Don't think there are any others in TUF that can match him.

I don't think Royce did it for the money. He is huge in Japan and has plenty of schools in the US so I don't think money is an issue. GJJ is still great but you need more nowadays. I reckon he'll be back, but he needs to work on his body more than his fighting. The difference between him and Hughes was masive, I think that was his major downfall.

As for Mike Bisping, he's one of the better fighters in his weight class but I still think Matt Hamill has a lot to offer. He is an amazing wrestler who can dominate most, including Mike, as he showed by not using his hands at times in training. Hopefully it's those two in the final, but we will see.

[akbarhussain]

don't think Royce did it for the money. He is huge in Japan and has plenty of schools in the US so I don't think money is an issue.

You're right, I don't think money is an issue for Royce..... but $1.5 million for a few minutes work is never gonna do anyone any harm. And he was the one making the big damands in negotiations.

At 43, i'm pretty sure he'll not be back, not at least at the top level. The guy is a family man nowadays and barely even competes in BJJ comps anymore, only K-1 keep feeding him the odd clown for the ppv benefits - I get the feeling that this one was simply a swan-song for Royce and a great PR coup for Zuffa.

I reckon he'll be back, but he needs to work on his body more than his fighting.

If you mean in terms of strength/size, again, i don't think we'll ever see Royce do this. GJJ was meant to be (and was always billed as during the early UFCs) the art that didn't rely on physical strength to overcome an opponent. Royce concentrating on his strength would be like admitting that GJJ is not good enough..... which it quite plainly is not when compared to modern day MMA fighters.

Got a funny feeling that MB will make it to the live finals :wink: You're quite right, Hamill does have a great wrestling base, would make a very interesting final.

[philipMac]

There was some russian lad, sort of a bit of a fat bloke, with jail tats all over the place, and always looked distinctly bored with the whole thing who used to batter people on a regular basis in that UFC thing.

One match in particular I saw on youtube, starts with some 7 foot blonde lean looking guy, punching and pyscheing the crap out of himself, and the russian lad, in the corner, yawning.

Suffice to say the fight lasted about 40 seconds. And the Russian lad didnt lose.

[akbarhussain]

lol, the fight you mention I think was in Pride FC (japanese kinda equivalent I spose) - a russian called Aleksander Emelianenko (brother of Fedor, the current HW Pride champ) fighting against a Brit called James Thompson.

As you say, Thompson came out punching himself in the head and giving it the psycho act whilst Emalianenko just stood there yawning and looking a little bored. Suffice to say, Thompson got bashed.

Crazy Russians

:lol:

[DanAbnormal]

I watched one fight and thought it was a little boring. They should have called it a hugging contest. It was Royce Gracie versus Dan somethingor other. He was a wrestler and rather large too. Just wrestled him and would not let go. That's not fighting in my book. But then my idea of fighting invloves swords! Eek.

[Shinsei Jutsu]

ROyce Gracie is 39 and I think he'll go for one more fight in UFC.
I think he needs to work on his body and conditioning, but he won't. As you said GJJ isn't meant like that so he won't do it. Can't see him beating any of the big names in UFC any more.

I think you are talking about Gracie vs Dan Severn. A GJJ vs early wrestler (no strikes) That was early ufc when they didn't have rounds and Dan didn't strike at all. He just didn't know how to. The refereeing was a bit poor then, that fight should have been stood up many times.

If you want action you wanna check out UFC ultimate knockouts! Great dvd, but I prefer the ultimate submissions. evil stuff :twisted:

[akbarhussain]

Gracie is still contracted to K1 and struck only a one fight deal with Zuffa for his UFC appearance.... so i'd say unlikely to see any more of him in the Octogan.

Interesting website Shinsei Jutsu, while we're on the subject of MMA......

"Most others are called mixed martial arts. These train the students in many different styles and then they select which parts they use. This means that a lot is thrown away and unnecessarily taught."

Is this not the same as your own system is attempting to achieve?

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Not really. Most MMA will learn many martial arts fully or partially and use what they, the student thinks is necessary. With what I am doing I have already stripped down a lot of what there is and teach what I think is necessary.
Both ways have there advantages, but I have already taken out a lot of what wouldn't work in a fight, and I monitor students to constantly rework their progress (if a student finds kicks hard then they would be cut down to a minimum and only learn the basics. Concentrate on how to close the distance to a clinch etc).

I'll stop there as I can go on a bit.

If you wanna chat more then pm me mate, we don't wanna bore every one else eh :wink:

[akbarhussain]

So how do you think your art would stand up against modern mma under modern mma rules?

[akbarhussain]

ttt

[Shinsei Jutsu]

sorry missed this thread as I haven't visited for ages.

btw what does ttt mean?

Back to the actual question, my art against mma? I truely think it depends more on the fighter than it does on the art. I have seen many fights between different styles where going on styles and stats one fighter should easily win, but it's not always the case.
If a fighter has very good stamina, then his strength will last the whole fight. Even if he is a bad striker or grappler, if he can defend and hold out then he should win with his stamina.
If both fighters are of equal Stamina then personally I think a good defence is necessary. If you can learn to defend, againsts strikes and submissions then you have a huge advantage. Many a good submission fighter has a poor defence against strikes and some grappling.
I know this has strayed slightly from the question but what I am trying to get across is that I don't think you can compare two styles, ever, you have to compare two fighters.

Hope that sufficiently answers your question

[akbarhussain]

ttt=to the top

Most MMA will learn many martial arts fully or partially and use what they, the student thinks is necessary. With what I am doing I have already stripped down a lot of what there is and teach what I think is necessary.

I fully agree with what you say about two fighters being comparable rather than two arts..... but the reaosn I asked his that in the quote above you make a comparison between what your art equips a fighter with compared to mma.

In my experience, most mma schools nowadays complete the integration of different arts for their students.... rather than the student taking what they feel is right. Ok, so different arts may be practiced at seperate sessions (e.g. Thai for conditioning/clinch/knees, boxing for footwork/punches, wrestling for takedowns/takedown defence/ground control, some kind of submission training for subs/sub defence)....... but there then tends to be training on how to integrate the chosen skillsets into mma. For example, boxing needs to be heavily modified for use within modern mma, as the angles etc are far different.

So are you interested in testing your skills at all in mma competition?

[Shinsei Jutsu]

ttt=to the top

Most MMA will learn many martial arts fully or partially and use what they, the student thinks is necessary. With what I am doing I have already stripped down a lot of what there is and teach what I think is necessary.

I fully agree with what you say about two fighters being comparable rather than two arts..... but the reaosn I asked his that in the quote above you make a comparison between what your art equips a fighter with compared to mma.

In my experience, most mma schools nowadays complete the integration of different arts for their students.... rather than the student taking what they feel is right. Ok, so different arts may be practiced at seperate sessions (e.g. Thai for conditioning/clinch/knees, boxing for footwork/punches, wrestling for takedowns/takedown defence/ground control, some kind of submission training for subs/sub defence)....... but there then tends to be training on how to integrate the chosen skillsets into mma. For example, boxing needs to be heavily modified for use within modern mma, as the angles etc are far different.

So are you interested in testing your skills at all in mma competition?

Not wanting to be too picky, but how many mma schools have you attended to come up with this conclusion?

As for myself, no. I have had my fair few fights in similar tournements, and caused a fair few injuries, one major one that stopped me from training for a long time as I felt fairly sick after it happened. But no I now train and teach for self defence. If one of my students ever wanted to go in for mma then I would happily train them up.
Saying that, if I had more time to train and concentrate on myself (rather than teach), and a good training partner(s) then I would consider it. It's been a while since I fought anyone at my level. I would like to be pushed more, but teaching now is a higher priority to me than fighting.

[akbarhussain]

Not wanting to be too picky, but how many mma schools have you attended to come up with this conclusion?

I have trained at React crosstraining in Notts (BBJ based submission wrestling for mma), Roughouse in Notts (modern mma striking/sub wrestling), Leicester shootfighters. And once funnily enough down your neck of the woods at Ashford Vale Tudo.

Not wanting to be picky either, but how many mma schools have you attended to come up with your conclusion?

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Not wanting to be too picky, but how many mma schools have you attended to come up with this conclusion?

I have trained at React crosstraining in Notts (BBJ based submission wrestling for mma), Roughouse in Notts (modern mma striking/sub wrestling), Leicester shootfighters. And once funnily enough down your neck of the woods at Ashford Vale Tudo.

Not wanting to be picky either, but how many mma schools have you attended to come up with your conclusion?

um, Ashford isn't really that close to me.

As for me and mma schools, I've now visited about 45 in total. I make it a part of my way of improving my teaching to go to as many different arts as possible. The latest being a place just opened called Keddles Gym. Haven't been for any training yet, but have spoken to one of the teachers. Seems to know his stuff.

I have now been training since I was 8, and moved from specific fighting styles to mma when I was about 20. I'm sure classes have changed since then, and more are moving to a similar way I teach (or should that be I am teaching a similar way to them). Which ever way it is, all training is down to a matter of preference. After watching all the ultimate fighter series' so far I have to say the teachings of the Matt Hughes and Tito Ortiz are the ways I prefer, and if I think I could keep students by pushing them harder and getting them to fight harder I would, but my students come for self defence reasons, and this is not the way most of them want to learn.
I have one student at the moment who really is pushing for mma training. I have no idea if he wants to fight in any tourneys but he is progressing well, but it is hard for him to practice as no one else at the club goes as hard as he does.

All this talk is making me wanna train more, and I am stuck here working(ish) :cry: . Well tonights gonna be a good lesson :twisted:

[akbarhussain]

As for me and mma schools, I've now visited about 45 in total. I make it a part of my way of improving my teaching to go to as many different arts as possible. The latest being a place just opened called Keddles Gym. Haven't been for any training yet, but have spoken to one of the teachers. Seems to know his stuff.

Cool, i'd be interested to hear which gyms/fighters you have trained with...... i'm a very big fan of UK mma and the scene so am familiar with alot of places.

I know of Keddles gym... a v good Thai gym. They are using Lee Johnstone for their mma training, seems to be all the rage nowadays to jump on the bandwagon.

[Shinsei Jutsu]

As for me and mma schools, I've now visited about 45 in total. I make it a part of my way of improving my teaching to go to as many different arts as possible. The latest being a place just opened called Keddles Gym. Haven't been for any training yet, but have spoken to one of the teachers. Seems to know his stuff.

Cool, i'd be interested to hear which gyms/fighters you have trained with...... i'm a very big fan of UK mma and the scene so am familiar with alot of places.

I know of Keddles gym... a v good Thai gym. They are using Lee Johnstone for their mma training, seems to be all the rage nowadays to jump on the bandwagon.

How do you know Keddles gym? I mean apart from it being a big name in Muay Thai, have you trained with Alan? It's just down the road (2 minute walk from my front door) and if it has rave reviews I will definately check it out sooner than is planned.

As for my training in mma, it started with Katsudo Kempo Karate, based mainly on Kempo, but was as close to mma as any Karate class has got. That got me really into mixing styles and my teacher Darren was a top bloke. Unfortunately I didn't get on with his teach who took over after Darren done his back in.
From there I trained at the Black Dragon gym in Croydon, which I think now has closed down. It was above inshops, but was very good as on a Sunday the gym was £5 and you trained as long as you wanted. I met plenty of fighters there and we all helped train each other in different styles.
I trained with Yoshin Ryu BJJ classes for a while, and Kamon wing chun/BJJ too.
Kevin Chan is a genius, but it's a shame most of his classes aren't taught by him and are far too big.
I also found that Frank Shamrocks courses when he came over here were superb and worth every penny.

Do you still train?

[Shinsei Jutsu]

btw, shall we move this conversation to pm as I'm sure no one else is too interested in this and we are bumping a topic for just us.

[akbarhussain]

I used to compete in kickboxing and had a handful of amateur thai bouts also..... Am more familiar with Keiron Keddle (through results etc) than Alan as he is the current fighter form the family.

[DanDare]

Take this thread up in an e-mail/s. :)

Remember what Bruce Lee once said: "The Art of Fighting without Fighting" :D

[Shinsei Jutsu]

Take this thread up in an e-mail/s. :)

Remember what Bruce Lee once said: "The Art of Fighting without Fighting" :D

Thanks Dan, I said that a while ago. I like a good discussion, but this seems a silly place to be continuing this.

Don't quite get the Bruce Lee comment though :?

[DanDare]

Sent you a PM but its stuck in my Outbox.