View Full Version : Long story but should I be worried?
Long story- be patient. There’s a serious question at the end…
Went for a rideout today with some new riding buddies – 10 of us heading down to the Kent coast. The sun was shining and all were happy and keen. It was a mixed bunch of ages, bikes and riding experience and skill but we had all happily agreed a pace and a vague route.
It takes a bit of patience and consideration to keep 10 bikes together on a long ride but we were doing rather well until we somehow got separated somewhere towards Hastings. (yeah I know, not on the Kent coast!). Well 4 of us went one way and the other six went somewhere else.
This group of four included 3 young males who really enjoy the thrill of speed, knees down round the bends and generally being a little bit outside the letter of the Highway Code …. and me. For those that don’t know me I’m 43 years old (shouldn’t that be in another thread?) and, although I have my brain free moments, generally I have my “I don’t want to die” switch set to high (ask Ape, he rides with me so that he has to calm down his antics). But that ‘red mist’ descended and I decided to go for it and keep up. And I did, and it was great. I haven’t ridden like that or had so much fun for a long time.
Anyhow riding into Eastbourne, the back two of us spotted a police bike on a roundabout, then the cop car in the lay-by to the right. To cut a long story short 3 of us stopped and one got away by hiding behind a white van ( they have their uses). Three very different conversations then ensue
1. Male bike cop and young lad on CBR600. Cop says that speed gun on previous bridge had clocked him at 143, but there’s no evidence, so warns against speeding. Also advises about back tyre size and other bike related stuff. Fills in a stop/search form but says there’s nothing more young lad has to do. Lad on a restricted license but nothing is checked.
2. Female police officer and young lad (who looks about 14) on a CBR400. Lad says he doesn’t know the area and was just trying to keep up with his mates. Female cop asks about restricted license and wonders why he hasn’t got L plates on. Lad given a stop/search form and told to produce documents at a later date etc.
3. Middle aged male cop in a car and me on my GSXR750. Cop gives 5 minute lecture about scraping bits of biker of the floor, trauma of informing relatives, license is a privilege etc and asks whether I’ve ever been stopped before. On answering negative (very politely and apologetically, of course) he replied that he is going to give me a formal warning and that if I am caught ‘careless riding again I will have my bike confiscated :? . Said I would’ve been done for 120 but the gun wasn’t quite set up yet. Got a stop/search form but no producer.
So questions – serious one - all 3 of us have got one of the bits of paper recording the stop/search – could we all lose our bikes if we offend again or was the cop just cow pooing me?
And what have I learned from this?
was the cop just cow pooing me?
Yes.
IMHO, of course :wink:
Ok
But question 2 ...
What have I learned?
Spiderman
03-06-06, 07:07 PM
I hope youve learnt that speed can be fun and exhilarating but you need to look over your shoulder every now and then.
Maybe you also learnt the correct order of the digits in the wpc's phone number? ;)
Mmmm, not sure about that Spidey
Hindsight suggests I should have burst into tears at the grumpy copper - usually gets them :)
Biker Biggles
03-06-06, 07:15 PM
I would expect the incident has been logged on the police computer and if you are stopped again or "come to police notice"this will flash up.How it will affect you formally I don't know.
What have you learned?Don't get caught.
Spiderman
03-06-06, 07:21 PM
Mmmm, not sure about that Spidey
Hindsight suggests I should have burst into tears at the grumpy copper - usually gets them :)
Ok, maybe that was just me and my fetish for a woman in cops uniform, but i'll save that story for another day.
And look, you didnt turn on the waterworks but still got away relatively easy. So lesson learnt... sometimes a sad puppy look is as good as the waterworks?
Agreed 'shouldn't get caught' but
there's something more profound than that.......
But my eight legged friend, I'm not sure if I have got away with it.
I reported a kid in a car driving dangerously on our school property. The chap I gave the statement to said that he would get a formal warning for it and if he ever did it again they would have his car.
Is this was grumpy cop did to me?
Spiderman
03-06-06, 07:37 PM
But my eight legged friend, I'm not sure if I have got away with it.
I reported a kid in a car driving dangerously on our school property. The chap I gave the statement to said that he would get a formal warning for it and if he ever did it again they would have his car.
Is this was grumpy cop did to me?
I dont think they have the right to confiscate your car/bike/van just cos you were caught driving it like a tw@ a few times.
If that was the case then london would be half empty cos most people drive like tw@s most of the time.
And they would never have need to bother with a congestion charge in that case. they could have made their money from second hand car sales and scrap metal values.
I think he was trying to frighten you with an empty threat.
http://www.together.gov.uk/article.asp?aid=1613
That's all I could find about confiscation doing a quick search. Don't think it would apply in your case though.
Lissa thanks for that search - on the stop/search from the copper has put 'careless riding'. Could this be the first warning mentioned
On the othet hand, I would say I was riding very carefully. At that speed you have to!!
I dont think they have the right to confiscate your car/bike/van just cos you were caught driving it like a tw@ a few times.
If that was the case then london would be half empty cos most people drive like tw@s most of the time....
I think he was trying to frighten you with an empty threat.
For the record, they CAN confiscate your bike, it really isnt an empty threat.
However, I believe from Sussex polices info you have to be up on a second charge of dangerous driving or a careless driving charge following a previous conviction for them to be able to consider it. It came across as no conviction, no seizure when I read their leaflet.
Spiderman
03-06-06, 07:58 PM
http://www.together.gov.uk/article.asp?aid=1613
That's all I could find about confiscation doing a quick search. Don't think it would apply in your case though.
Good link Lissa, somne good info there. Like this
The seizure power applies where the offender is both breaking the law either by driving on road without due care and attention or inconsiderately, or driving off-road without lawful authority and in doing so is causing or is likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public.
Way i see it this law could be used to seize the cars & vans of those who drive while on the phone. Its illegal and by definition is without due care etc, its highly inconsiderate to all road users and pedestrians alike and it causes annoyance to memebers of the public.
I'm a member of the public and it annoys the hell out of me.
Seems like another of those "catch all" laws that is so open to interpretation its silly.
So de we start a campaign asking the cops to seize the vehicles of mobile users? its not like they are exactly enforcing that law are they?
Personally I'd challenge it (in writing, and preferably with a solicitor's letter) - maybe Ed (the forum's legal angel) will have something concrete and illuminating to say.
Glad you enjoyed your ride-out, and nil illegitimis carborundum ;).
.
Lyn - that's sort of a relief. Apart from this lapse (and I hold my hands up to it btw) Clean license, full NCB, paid my taxes and they've even given me a certificate to show I'm OK to work with children and vulnerable people.
There's hope!!!
Biker Biggles
03-06-06, 08:03 PM
These kind of laws let the cops pick on easy targets(like bikers)and not real criminals.An excuse for lazy policeing really.I'd challenge it in writing too and ask what specific offense you commited and when they are going to charge you with it.
Jonboy - I don't want things to get official unnecessarily. I might leave letters for a while!
But my latin is rusty - don't be ground down by the law?
Lyn - that's sort of a relief. Apart from this lapse (and I hold my hands up to it btw) Clean license, full NCB, paid my taxes and they've even given me a certificate to show I'm OK to work with children and vulnerable people.
There's hope!!!
Seizure without conviction would put them on extremely dodgy legal grounds imho. Despite Bliars attempts our system is still innocent til proven guilty in a court. Any decent lawyer would rip them to shreds if they attempted to seize property with no conviction.
However updated from sussex police indicates they may be doing this:
Withyam – S59 Warning
Following complaints from residents of Balls Green, Withyam, about the antisocial use of a motorcycle in that area, Crowborough PCSO's attended and issued a Section 59 warning to the 17 year rider of a Suzuki motorcycle. A Section 59 warning means that if the bike is seen being used again in a similar manner it will be taken away from the owner by officers. Quote from Sergeant Dave PRICE, "A car owner from Heathfield had his car taken away recently for similar behaviour. We would have no hesitation in doing the same thing again if the vehicle is being used irresponsibly."
from http://www.sussex.police.uk/npt/wealden/district_news.asp?uniqueid=16882
:?
I go up - I go down.
The form says stopped under section 60, not 59. Don't know what that means. But he didn't threaten to prosecute me for anything. I don't think he could. What would be his evidence? He didn't see me and he admitted that the speed gun on the bridge wasn't set up yet
Jonboy - I don't want things to get official unnecessarily. I might leave letters for a while!
But my latin is rusty - don't be ground down by the law?
Don't let the barstewards :wink: grind you down!!
'law' = 'barstewards' ------- possible mistranslation
OK, seems like they could have me on a technicality, although I will be really good from now on (promise!)
but what about the other guys? They got the same form, different misdemeanor but no warning. Could their bikes be under the same threat?
ArtyLady
03-06-06, 09:48 PM
Hi Messie I dont know it this would help? http://www.pepipoo.com/ worth a look see where you might stand?
Sorry.
Don't believe a word this woman says. She doesn't ride fast unless it's in a straight line. Well she rides a gixxer, what do you expect :?:
She must have been dreaming all this. Thought you would have realised this Messie when you woke up and the milk was dripping off your nose.
As for the police and your predicament. Haven't got a clue.
cheek!!!
I may not be able to beat you roud the twisties yet young man but wait until I've done the track day. I'll get you then :lol:
Oh and in case anyone was wondering. What I learned was that I just love riding my bike ..
the fast bits, the slow bits, the scary bits and the hot bits! The bits when I forget all the worries and responsibilities and even when I act irresponsibly and get caught.
I bl***y love riding my bike
I bl***y love riding my bike
Good innit :lol:
2. Female police officer and young lad (who looks about 14) on a CBR400. Lad says he doesn’t know the area and was just trying to keep up with his mates. Female cop asks about restricted license and wonders why he hasn’t got L plates on. Lad given a stop/search form and told to produce documents at a later date etc.
Anyone else wonder about this? That implies to me the police haven't got a clue.
But my latin is rusty - don't be ground down by the law?
More like "don't let the *******s grind you down" :wink:
mysteryjimbo
12-06-06, 08:20 AM
2. Female police officer and young lad (who looks about 14) on a CBR400. Lad says he doesn’t know the area and was just trying to keep up with his mates. Female cop asks about restricted license and wonders why he hasn’t got L plates on. Lad given a stop/search form and told to produce documents at a later date etc.
Anyone else wonder about this? That implies to me the police haven't got a clue.
Yes true, a lot of officers dont know the ins and out of motorcycle law. They cant know absoloutly everything and biking is in the minority.
I'm under the impression that a CBR400 is over the 33bhp limit of a restricted licence. He may be a naughty boy and not have a restriction (if he needs it) anyway so they're well within their rights to ask questions.
2. Female police officer and young lad (who looks about 14) on a CBR400. Lad says he doesn’t know the area and was just trying to keep up with his mates. Female cop asks about restricted license and wonders why he hasn’t got L plates on. Lad given a stop/search form and told to produce documents at a later date etc.
Anyone else wonder about this? That implies to me the police haven't got a clue.
Yes true, a lot of officers dont know the ins and out of motorcycle law. They cant know absoloutly everything and biking is in the minority.
I'm under the impression that a CBR400 is over the 33bhp limit of a restricted licence. He may be a naughty boy and not have a restriction (if he needs it) anyway so they're well within their rights to ask questions.
These were presumably traffic police, therefore IMO they should know the different type of licences surely?
mysteryjimbo
12-06-06, 08:52 AM
You'd think that. But there are a lot of bikers who dont understand the ins and outs of licence law.
We get enough questions on here about it.
creamerybutter
12-06-06, 09:12 AM
1. Male bike cop and young lad on CBR600. Cop says that speed gun on previous bridge had clocked him at 143, but there’s no evidence, so warns against speeding. Also advises about back tyre size and other bike related stuff. Fills in a stop/search form but says there’s nothing more young lad has to do. Lad on a restricted license but nothing is checked.
When you say restricted license do you mean 33bhp? Is the CBR restricted to 33bhp? and would a 33bhp restricted CBR even manage 143? Or was the copper talking ****?
Creamery Butter - of course his bike was properly restricted :wink: and anyway this was the 600. And they may have been just a little bit of bragging there.... possibly.
creamerybutter
12-06-06, 09:41 AM
Ohh I see :lol:
Scooby Drew
12-06-06, 11:37 AM
This sounds like the ASBO law - if there are enough complaints about a person they can confiscate property (MCN had a thing about this to do with minimotos), and if I remember correctly, with the ASBO laws you are guilty until proven innocent...
We had some trouble with neighbors a couple years ago. When we called the police they couldn't do anything as we had no proof and it was our word against the neighbors. They said to lodge a complaint with them everytime something happened: when they had enough complaints they could slap them with an ASBO.
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