View Full Version : Standard suspension settings.
DanAbnormal
07-07-06, 03:54 PM
Hi chaps,
Before I go mucking about with the suspension on the bike can I just ask what changes can be made to the standard front end on a K5 Sv650S? Preload, damping, rebound etc, etc.
I find that sometimes the front end bottoms out when going over a small bump or hole. I don't really notice much front end diving but I do notice that when giving it some round bends it does feel a little loose and wobbly. Can this be improved upon by tweaking the standard settings. Also which way to I turn it and what effect will it have.
Cheers,
Dan
andyaikido
07-07-06, 04:58 PM
Just preload at both ends i'm afraid so not much scope for adjustment. Sure someone more knowledgable will be along soon.
21QUEST
07-07-06, 05:50 PM
Not saying you don't know but are you sure it's actually bottoming out. Sometimes what feels like bottoming out might actually be too much high speed damping.
That said there is nothing necessarily wrong with suspension bottoming out occasionally. If you suspension never bottoms out even on the heaviest of braking OR biggest bump then that's no good as well.
Adjustment wise you only have preload to adjust. My opinion if you want to muck about with them is to set the bike sag at
Front 25mm
Rear 10mm or even
Won't harm to check the rider sag to see what it is.
Ps: you can put a cable tie around the fork stanchions to see where it ends up after going over a small bump or hole.
DanAbnormal
07-07-06, 10:46 PM
Thanks. I think you're right in that it is not bottoming out, I just get a bit of a clunk when going over a loweed drain cover.
Will check the with the cable ties.
Dan
Dan, the stock suspension isn't really much chop on the 650.
How much do you weigh? if you're over 70kg then the springs are too light for you and the damping can be improved by replacing the fork oil with a lower viscosity oil such as 15wt. The Rolls Royce solution is to fit emulators as well but the cost goes up.
First thing is to get the correct springs for your weight. Go to racetech.com and follow the menus to see what rate spring you need.
From the bike sitting there under it's own weight to you being on it, both feet on the pegs, the suspension should settle 25-30mm for general road use. Obviously it is very handy to have at least one other person available to help with all this.
Once you decide to change springs, do the oil at the same time. Have fun and ride safe!
21QUEST
08-07-06, 09:29 AM
Dan, the stock suspension isn't really much chop on the 650.
How much do you weigh? if you're over 70kg then the springs are too light for you and the damping can be improved by replacing the fork oil with a lower viscosity oil such as 15wt. The Rolls Royce solution is to fit emulators as well but the cost goes up.
First thing is to get the correct springs for your weight. Go to racetech.com and follow the menus to see what rate spring you need.
From the bike sitting there under it's own weight to you being on it, both feet on the pegs, the suspension should settle 25-30mm for general road use. Obviously it is very handy to have at least one other person available to help with all this.
Once you decide to change springs, do the oil at the same time. Have fun and ride safe!
Again(fro the second rtime) , the highlighted bit above is wrong.
Anyways I think the suspension on the SV is that that bad (JMO).
PeterM , no offense but please may I respectfully ask you stop giving out wrong information.
Cheers
Ben
And why do you believe this information to be wrong? More to the point, what do you believe to be the correct information and what leads you to the conclusion that you are correct?
Make sure you read carefully what I have written too. 25-30mm rider sag I belive you refer to it as.
The SV has about 140mm of suspension travel available at the front (from memory). This obviously has to cope with movement both up and down through the stroke.
Therefore, have a look at the forces that need to be dealt with during suspension operation. Is there more force generated under braking, combined with the odd bump? I'll tell you right now that you do not want your suspension bottoming out, you are quite likely to throw it down the road or at least get a very nasty surprise if you do. I know this first hand, funnily enough it happened While the suspension was still stock. It makes sense to have more compression stroke available than rebound.
If you have insuficient rebound stroke available then the suspension will top out and you are in mid-air.
I do agree that Dan should get some zip ties to see what is happening with his suspension travel though.
check this out.
its a really usefull bit of information
http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm#SET%20UP%20BIKE%20TO%20YOUR%20WEIGHT
21QUEST
09-07-06, 01:50 AM
And why do you believe this information to be wrong?
Read my reply to the other thread on suspension.
More to the point, what do you believe to be the correct information and what leads you to the conclusion that you are correct?
I never said I MY way was the correct way. When it comes to suspension I give my opinion based on experiences. These I may add is based on other people having worked on my bouncy bits , working on them myself and experimenting and and still learning.
I more often than not employ folks to try and learn more about if possible as they can then work towards getting what works best for themselves even if their suspension has been set up initially by a pro ie not me :wink: .
Make sure you read carefully what I have written too. 25-30mm rider sag I belive you refer to it as.
You say rider sag but your describtion of how to measure rider sag is completely wrong. I gave you the benefit of doubt that it was a typo but you have repeated the same thing thrice. My reply to Dan by the way was for him to measure the bike free sag(so there is no confusion that is sag without out rider)
The SV has about 140mm of suspension travel available at the front (from memory).
I believe it's more like 130mm
I'll tell you right now that you do not want your suspension bottoming out, you are quite likely to throw it down the road or at least get a very nasty surprise if you do.
You don't want your suspension bottoming out Willy Nilly but the goal is to be able to use as much suspension available witout ideally bottoming out. That is the balance you are trying to achieve. That doesn't mean that if you do occasionally bottom out you suspension is automatically crap or not set up right.
I know this first hand, funnily enough it happened While the suspension was still stock. It makes sense to have more compression stroke available than rebound.
I'm trying to follow you but how do you intend to achieve 'more suspension stroke available'? Via spring or damping?
If you have insuficient rebound stroke available then the suspension will top out and you are in mid-air.
Are you saying that is a good thing. Sorry just trying to be sure. Again that is the beauty of suspension , all the balancing act. So you crack the throttle coming out of a corner and suspension is topped out , can't see how that is any good. That could cause a crash as well don't you agree?
Cheers
Ben
PS: One more thing , you wrote 'and the damping can be improved by replacing the fork oil with a lower viscosity oil such as 15wt.'
How is that then? OK you got the stated different WT bit right but you see how you get your self all muddled up ? ie a lower viscosity has less resistance to flow.
And why do you believe this information to be wrong?
Read my reply to the other thread on suspension.
Yeah, we established that I thought a certain degree of common sense would have already been applied and that the article bikeageboy posted clarified terminology and supported what I was saying.
Make sure you read carefully what I have written too. 25-30mm rider sag I belive you refer to it as.
You say rider sag but your describtion of how to measure rider sag is completely wrong. I gave you the benefit of doubt that it was a typo but you have repeated the same thing thrice. My reply to Dan by the way was for him to measure the bike free sag(so there is no confusion that is sag without out rider)
Again this has been determined as differences in terminology, and thanks once again to bikeageboy for that link. Rather than being argumentative it would have been much better if you clarified terminology from the start before launching into anything else. The fact that I simply used the term 'sag' to start with should have given you a hint there.
The SV has about 140mm of suspension travel available at the front (from memory).
I believe it's more like 130mm
Well whoopdie-doo. That's a war stopper isn't it. Being a whole 10mm out trying to recall something off the top of my head isn't a bad effort. Especially as it was being used for illustrative purposes.
I'll tell you right now that you do not want your suspension bottoming out, you are quite likely to throw it down the road or at least get a very nasty surprise if you do.
You don't want your suspension bottoming out Willy Nilly but the goal is to be able to use as much suspension available witout ideally bottoming out. That is the balance you are trying to achieve. That doesn't mean that if you do occasionally bottom out you suspension is automatically crap or not set up right.
Reading bikeageboys link confirms what I said. You want to have that 10mm or so safety margin for the unexpected. That means it's a reserve that you don't want to encountering often. It is there for the emergencies and if you are using that reserve in other than real emergencies then things are not right. We are basically in agreement here.
I know this first hand, funnily enough it happened While the suspension was still stock. It makes sense to have more compression stroke available than rebound.
I'm trying to follow you but how do you intend to achieve 'more suspension stroke available'? Via spring or damping?
Don't be a fool. If you're going to quote do it correctly at least. You require more compression than rebound movement available in your suspension travel. This is achieved through correct spring selection. Read that link to understand why.
If you have insuficient rebound stroke available then the suspension will top out and you are in mid-air.
Are you saying that is a good thing. Sorry just trying to be sure. Again that is the beauty of suspension , all the balancing act. So you crack the throttle coming out of a corner and suspension is topped out , can't see how that is any good. That could cause a crash as well don't you agree?
Again, stop being a smart ****. The point of that was to illustrate that it is a balancing act to get as correct as you can. Ever had a close look at the front wheel of race bikes hard on it out of a corner? You will frequently see the front wheel in the air while they are still leaned slightly exiting the corner. The gyroscopic effect of the rear wheel keeps the bike at that angle so they can achieve the last little bit of the turn while applying optimum power. Not a good thing when the front is weighted during steering effort but accepteble (not necessarily desirable) when throttling out of a turn.
PS: One more thing , you wrote 'and the damping can be improved by replacing the fork oil with a lower viscosity oil such as 15wt.'
How is that then? OK you got the stated different WT bit right but you see how you get your self all muddled up ? ie a lower viscosity has less resistance to flow.
No that was an out and out mistake. Correct with the reference to the different wt oil but wrong with the reference to viscosity, simple as that, and yes, I do know better.
BTW the stock fork springs on the SV650 are designed for someone who weighs 130lbs, 9.3 stone or 59kg.
21QUEST
09-07-06, 01:18 PM
And why do you believe this information to be wrong?
Read my reply to the other thread on suspension.
Yeah, we established that I thought a certain degree of common sense would have already been applied and that the article bikeageboy posted clarified terminology and supported what I was saying.
The article did not supp port whatever it was that you wrote :roll:. Again go read RingDing's reply on the other post :roll:
Make sure you read carefully what I have written too. 25-30mm rider sag I belive you refer to it as.
You say rider sag but your describtion of how to measure rider sag is completely wrong. I gave you the benefit of doubt that it was a typo but you have repeated the same thing thrice. My reply to Dan by the way was for him to measure the bike free sag(so there is no confusion that is sag without out rider)
Again this has been determined as differences in terminology, and thanks once again to bikeageboy for that link. Rather than being argumentative it would have been much better if you clarified terminology from the start before launching into anything else. The fact that I simply used the term 'sag' to start with should have given you a hint there.
I don't know why you keep harping on about terminology. Where you are mistaken is believing that I'm on about terminology you use. For clarification what I'm on about is you not knowing how to measure what ever SAG FIGURES(use any terms you like) you are trying to achieve
The SV has about 140mm of suspension travel available at the front (from memory).
I believe it's more like 130mm
Well whoopdie-doo. That's a war stopper isn't it. Being a whole 10mm out trying to recall something off the top of my head isn't a bad effort. Especially as it was being used for illustrative purposes.
:roll: Lol. I think you'll find I don't waste my time normally doing battle on the interfeck ring so you are wrong there. Internet ****ing contests don't interest me :P but sometimes one must comment on outrageously bad postings :wink:
I'll tell you right now that you do not want your suspension bottoming out, you are quite likely to throw it down the road or at least get a very nasty surprise if you do.
You don't want your suspension bottoming out Willy Nilly but the goal is to be able to use as much suspension available witout ideally bottoming out. That is the balance you are trying to achieve. That doesn't mean that if you do occasionally bottom out you suspension is automatically crap or not set up right.
Reading bikeageboys link confirms what I said. You want to have that 10mm or so safety margin for the unexpected. That means it's a reserve that you don't want to encountering often. It is there for the emergencies and if you are using that reserve in other than real emergencies then things are not right. We are basically in agreement here.
Are we :shock: . SO what's a real emergency to you? Anyways your earlier reply was 'you don't want your suspension bottoming out.
:?: for YOU :?: What is the function of bottoming out devices be it hydraulic or mechanical :wink:
I know this first hand, funnily enough it happened While the suspension was still stock. It makes sense to have more compression stroke available than rebound.
I'm trying to follow you but how do you intend to achieve 'more suspension stroke available'? Via spring or damping?
Don't be a fool. If you're going to quote do it correctly at least. You require more compression than rebound movement available in your suspension travel. This is achieved through correct spring selection. Read that link to understand why.
I do apologise for quoting incorrectly :( . You know what your problem is?. You are reading too much and NOT understanding for that matter .
If you have insuficient rebound stroke available then the suspension will top out and you are in mid-air.
Are you saying that is a good thing. Sorry just trying to be sure. Again that is the beauty of suspension , all the balancing act. So you crack the throttle coming out of a corner and suspension is topped out , can't see how that is any good. That could cause a crash as well don't you agree?
Again, stop being a smart @rse. The point of that was to illustrate that it is a balancing act to get as correct as you can. Ever had a close look at the front wheel of race bikes hard on it out of a corner? You will frequently see the front wheel in the air while they are still leaned slightly exiting the corner. The gyroscopic effect of the rear wheel keeps the bike at that angle so they can achieve the last little bit of the turn while applying optimum power. Not a good thing when the front is weighted during steering effort but accepteble (not necessarily desirable) when throttling out of a turn.
ME smart ****? Gosh , thank you :oops: . No, I don't spend ages watching vids of race bikes coming out of a corner to see if the front wheel gets airtime.
BTW the stock fork springs on the SV650 are designed for someone who weighs 130lbs, 9.3 stone or 59kg.
LOL. My Lordy me , you are joking :roll: .
That's all :wink:
Cheers
Ben
PS: Go easy on the name calling eh...... Makes you sound like a desperate person clutching at straws :-dd
Now boys, lets put the toys back in the pram, eh?
:D
Name calling? Not even close sunshine, that is the beginnings of me starting to get frustrated with someone being obtuse.
Go to www.racetech.com Follow the prompts for bike type etc and bring up the sv650. Go to the spring weight calculator and enter the weights I listed, lbs or kg. Have a look at the recommended spring weight mate. You'll see it spits out the stock one. So, no. I'm not joking.
Right then. Do the maths for the differences in the figures quoted for static and rider sag. Lo and behold it comes pretty close to the 25-30mm difference I gave in the first place. Still with me? Understanding are we?
The reference I made to 'sag' was to refer to the difference between static and rider sag. If you wish I'll go and add a lexicon of terms used if that helps.
BTW, along with understanding is a little thing called observation. Perhaps if you took in more information when watching a telecast you may notice these things.
DanAbnormal
11-07-06, 10:19 AM
Crikey, what have I started here! Now I don't know who to believe! :?
Think I'll check out ractech though so thanks for the link.
Also I weight just over 13 stone so I guess the suspension needs work! :D
21QUEST
11-07-06, 10:40 AM
Name calling? Not even close sunshine, that is the beginnings of me starting to get frustrated with someone being obtuse.
But previuosly you wrote this
Are you for real? The "right way". Get stuffed you sanctimonious wind bag
Dang :-dd :lol:
Yes, softer than what some may recommend works for him, great. Bully for him. We are talking about people riding on the street with not the same skill level and we have no idea on their level of expertise or skill. Therefore it is logical to use the path of best fit for general advice.
Maybe then it's best to stop fraffing around with the SV suspensuion and just ride the darn thing eh..
Ok buddy , you got it. Some people will call someone like you a 'Gob****e'(but I won't). Don't forget to knock yourself out.
Peace
Ben
Name calling? Not even close sunshine, that is the beginnings of me starting to get frustrated with someone being obtuse.
But previuosly you wrote this
Are you for real? The "right way". Get stuffed you sanctimonious wind bag
Dang :-dd :lol:
Check out the time stamps on the posts. I made the other reference after first one.
Yes, softer than what some may recommend works for him, great. Bully for him. We are talking about people riding on the street with not the same skill level and we have no idea on their level of expertise or skill. Therefore it is logical to use the path of best fit for general advice.
Maybe then it's best to stop fraffing around with the SV suspensuion and just ride the darn thing eh..
Ok buddy , you got it. Some people will call someone like you a 'Gob****e'(but I won't). Don't forget to knock yourself out.
Peace
Ben
I couldn't care less what people may call me. A saying comes to mind..... something about casting pearls before swine and wasting ones time.
Robw#70
15-07-06, 12:21 PM
The only downfall with Peterm's way of setting sag is that preload adjustment will have little effect on the measurements as it is the spring weight that would control/effect this measurement.
You need to take all the measurements or not at all, start with the static sag,
then measure the rider sag.
The rider sag will indicate that the correct spring rate is fitted, but with none or too much static sag then any measurements are pointless.
There needs to be a baseline to measure from, with laden and unladen measurements you'll only get a difference between the two points, but it can be anywhere in its travel, hence static sag needs to be set :P
Fair point mate. I just hope SV Dan hasn't run for cover and adopted the foetal position after all this! :lol:
BTW Dan, how are you going with the bike? Any decisions etc?
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