View Full Version : AR06 - rideout etiquette
Sorry about this, and maybe I'm being a bit of a wuss, but I'm not alone in thinking that there were some very dodgy ovetakes and generally poor/inconsiderate riding on display on the rideout.
The vast majority of peeps were fine, and I'm not complaining about being overtaken at all, it's just that one or two were cutting it a bit fine at times and seemed to have forgotten that there were a few newbie riders with us.
Discuss or tell me to feck off, I don't mind :roll:
It's gonna happen Jabs. Sometimes it's testosterone, sometimes it is just inexperience itself that leads to dodgy overtakes.
Live (hopefully) and learn.
It's gonna happen Jabs. Sometimes it's testosterone, sometimes it is just inexperience itself that leads to dodgy overtakes.
Live (hopefully) and learn.
my thoughts too scoobs its gonna happen
I wasnt on the rideout so couldnt tell but I did hear about some dodgy overtaking, overtaking on the straights is generally a safe way of doing it, on the bends or just before is a no-no.
All I hope is that everyone learned and hopefully next time there on a rideout the will know better.
Jelster
10-07-06, 10:39 AM
Sorry about this, and maybe I'm being a bit of a wuss, but I'm not alone in thinking that there were some very dodgy ovetakes and generally poor/inconsiderate riding on display on the rideout.
The vast majority of peeps were fine, and I'm not complaining about being overtaken at all, it's just that one or two were cutting it a bit fine at times and seemed to have forgotten that there were a few newbie riders with us.
Discuss or tell me to feck off, I don't mind :roll:
There were a few that I witnessed, and one of which caused me to brake harder than I wanted too. Personally I think that Sportsbikes were seen by some as a "target" to get passed, which is fine in a small group with riders you know, but definately out of order in a large group with "unpredictable" riders......
One of the reasons we bugged out early.
.
Yeah - I know it's gonna happen on any rideout and with that number of bikes, but some of this was plain stupid........crossing double white lines on blind crests and bends, overtaking without checking first that there was somewhere safe to tuck back in again thereby causing other riders to brake (sometimes heavily), etc.
I saw one person (who shall be nameless) nearly killed overtaking a learner driver; those of us behind braked thinking the rider was gonner.
Anyone who was actually on the rideout care to comment?
Unfortunately I couldn't make it this year, but there was some dubious riding last year, as a group we should not tolerate it. It's bad enough that the cages want to take us out, but by "friendlies", No Thank You.
fizzwheel
10-07-06, 10:49 AM
First of all, this is not a critiscm of John, Ed, Daryl or anybody else that was involved in organising the route or the stop points. AR06 was possibly the best organised rideout I have been on. Marking the junctions etc was superbly done.
However I think there were a small minority of riders who for me pulled of some dubious moves. I'm not going to name names, but some of you need to have a serious think about the way you ride, you put others and yourselves at risk.
Remember its not a fricken race. Leave some space between yourself and the bike in front and don't overtake if theres no gap for you to pull back into. All you do is make the rider behind brake hard. Also remember that those of us with pillions needed a bit more room to stop in.
I think the trouble is, that with such a big mix of riders, riding ability and bikes with different characteristic's and a group of riders who's riding you don't know sometimes stuff like this is going to happen.
We're here to have fun. 8)
I think a lot of the dodgy overtakes were because no one was willing to leave a safe gap in front of themselve to allow people to pull in. It was as if they had got that far to the front and they weren't going to let anyone push them back.
Unfortunately I couldn't make it this year, but there was some dubious riding last year, as a group we should not tolerate it. It's bad enough that the cages want to take us out, but by "friendlies", No Thank You.
Thats precisely why this year I made a point of being at the back. Bearing in mind at last years rideout Id very little confidence following 4 accidents in the space of 6 months there were times I felt pressured and with some dubious overtakes I was not happy.
This is why this year I made a point of being last out and at the back knowing Ed was the only bike behind me and I didnt have to worry about a repeat, other than non-AR06 bikes coming past.
Have to say, I really enjoyed it this year without having to worry about someone elses riding or holding people up for long. Huge thanks to Ed for his patience :D
I think a lot of the dodgy overtakes were because no one was willing to leave a safe gap in front of themselve to allow people to pull in.
If there isn't a safe gap to pull into then then don't ****ing overtake :evil: ](*,)
It was as if they had got that far to the front and they weren't going to let anyone push them back.
As Fizz says, it was a rideout not a race and I know that he was particularly angry at the stop at Clee Hill when someone had carved him up. Worse still was that he had a pillion at the time.
If you felt the need to be at the front and got there by carving others up then you are one of those who seriously need to take along, hard look at the way you ride in group, particularly when you're not used to riding with those around you.
I'm not having a go at you personally, as I don't think you were one of those who carved me up.
creamerybutter
10-07-06, 11:06 AM
I had a few times when I was overtaken on right hand bends which I wasn't too happy about. I rarely overtook other bikes (slow and steady me) but when I did it was on straights with plenty of room for me to get back in in front of them (as I see it as being up to me to make sure there is room to get back in before I start the overtake). I also don't over take anything on solid whites I feel they are generally there for a reason.
Generally I tried to move over if I could.
There weren't many incidents (for me) and they didn't spoil an otherwise great day.
fizzwheel
10-07-06, 11:12 AM
I think a lot of the dodgy overtakes were because no one was willing to leave a safe gap in front of themselve to allow people to pull in. It was as if they had got that far to the front and they weren't going to let anyone push them back.
Like I said to you on Saturday night. I left the gap there so if the bike in front of me stopped I had room to stop without walloping the back of them. The gap isnt there for somebody to overtake me at nearly 3 figure speed and then shove in in front of me 3 bikes behind the front of the only rider who actually knows where they are going.
If theres no gap to pull back into once you have completed your overtake don't overtake.
If you want to race go and do a track day.
kwak zzr
10-07-06, 11:40 AM
people seem to like diceing with on coming cars personly i think they would hurt if you hit one :roll: i did a few over takings but would like to think they were safe, i usually only go quickly on the nice twisty lanes(cuz i love the bends :D ) and anyway whats the rush? :D
didnt we have this last year???
Its always gonna happen in large groups. Everyone wants to show off.
But Scoobs put it simply enough.
Sorry about this, and maybe I'm being a bit of a wuss
No, you are absolutely right. Best annual ride-out yet, but also more idiots than I've seen before, one of which I had a word with but it made no difference whatsoever. Next year we shall make it far clearer that it's not a road race and if there are persistent offenders they should be asked to leave and go home.
The priority should be a smooth, safe, flow of bikes getting to point B unscathed. Although I know not everyone holds this point of view, if we scaled down the overall pace by 10% I feel this would be advantageous, as there were plenty of folk that seemed to feel the need to catch up with the bike in front, even though they would never have been left behind because of the excellent marker system we had in place.
Personally I'm glad this has been voiced in public, as a little adult discussion on the matter might help any "offenders" get the picture.
.
Peter Henry
10-07-06, 12:14 PM
Maybe the problem lies more in the fact that an event such as the AR06 is a celebration and getting together of like minded people to enjoy both a pleasant ride and good company.
The mind set should be a lot different than your usual weekend blat with a few mates on roads you know etc. :?
The priority should be a smooth, safe, flow of bikes getting to point B unscathed.
That's my main concern - one "off", even a single bike/rider far from home, would have been a major inconvenience for others as well as the rider involved and spoiled the day for everyone else.
Thankfully, this didn't happen but I thought it bad that the standard of riding was a main topic of conversation at the breaks. This wasn't the case last year.
didnt we have this last year???
Its always gonna happen in large groups. Everyone wants to show off.
But Scoobs put it simply enough.
Agreed. With that many bikes on the ride it's always going to happen. This year there were, as far as I am aware, only two repeat offenders. Now out of nearly 70 bikes I would say that was a good result.
I would suggest that the others that were seen were nothing more than a lack of correct judgement on their part at the time of the incident. Something that happens, especially when riding with so many other bikes.
Sid Squid
10-07-06, 12:37 PM
...I thought it bad that the standard of riding was a main topic of conversation at the breaks...
Possibly, but then again in the main only a very few names were mentioned, as such it's likely, I think, that we're getting it out of proportion. This is not to suggest that it didn't happen, or even to talk it down, but it was a very very small fraction of the riders involved. I'm sure of this as I passed through the ride several times and could clearly observe that most riders preserved adquate distances and practised aware and considerate riding, I had no significant problems on most of those occasions, noting only that some people don't look in their mirrors as much as I think should be expected.
I think we ought to make this clear - most participants, by an enormous margin, rode in a manner that gave no-one else cause for complaint. I wouldn't like to think that this discussion would turn anyone away from participating in future events, it simply wasn't a worry for most riders at all, and for the rest not for most of the time - I'm sure about this.
AR05 was so much fun that I wanted to go again, it just didn't work out. It wont put me off going next year (fingers crossed). Comments on riding need to be voiced, if it is to remain a fun and safe event.
I think we ought to make this clear - most participants, by an enormous margin, rode in a manner that gave no-one else cause for complaint. I wouldn't like to think that this discussion would turn anyone away from participating in future events, it simply wasn't a worry for most riders at all, and for the rest not for most of the time - I'm sure about this.
Absolutely :thumbsup:
_Stretchie_
10-07-06, 01:05 PM
I'll hold my hands up. There were two overtakes that I did that were less than perfect and I remember them both because when it happened I was in my helmet berating myself and knew what the problem/issue was with both overtakes. As far as I know I only upset one person which I have apologised for (Sorry again Mac99 :oops: )
I did work my way from the back to the front on the last two instalments of the day but each time I overtook I checked mirrors, indicated and then looked behind me before pulling out to overtake so I know for a fact that I never pulled out infront of anyone (which I did see happen a couple of times). If I pulled in too close for comfort infront of anyone then I apologise, I always saw what gap I was going to pull into before overtaking and thought it was acceptable each time.
:)
fizzwheel
10-07-06, 01:08 PM
I think we ought to make this clear - most participants, by an enormous margin, rode in a manner that gave no-one else cause for complaint. I wouldn't like to think that this discussion would turn anyone away from participating in future events, it simply wasn't a worry for most riders at all, and for the rest not for most of the time - I'm sure about this.
Absolutely :thumbsup:
Agreed
Quiff Wichard
10-07-06, 01:37 PM
I know my place .
rictus01
10-07-06, 01:54 PM
Indeed as Ian (Squid) said, I too peculated though the group a few times and found just by waiting a few moments most picked me up in their mirrors before I went passed, the standard on the whole was very good, and better than I’d expected, most had a smooth pleasurable rideout, and all made it back in one piece, I think that says a lot.
it's always evolving so next years should be even better :thumbsup:
Cheers Mark.
I gotta say that my mirrors are crappy crap crap. I couldn't see anyone in my mirrors until they were just about passed. :roll:
Need new ones any way so Busters here I come. :thumbsup:
rictus01
10-07-06, 02:04 PM
I gotta say that my mirrors are crappy crap crap. I couldn't see anyone in my mirrors until they were just about passed. :roll:
Need new ones any way so Busters here I come. :thumbsup:
yeah but don't you need panoramic ones turned through 90% :wink:
Cheers Mark.
dirtydog
10-07-06, 02:13 PM
There were a few dodgy overtakes and speed issues going through towns (30 limit) but on the whole everyone rode with impeccable manners, most moving over to let a faster rider through etc. But as already it was just a couple of people that i thought were persistant offenders.
there were a lot of people and all had varying degrees of ability and may have just been some errors of judgement
Anyway everyone had fun twas a great weekend
Spiderman
10-07-06, 02:35 PM
The ride, as Squid said, was 99% brilliant and i had a great time.
There was a point where i was about 3 or 4 behind John (leader) and looking forward to dropping off to mark the route so i could also get some pics and video of all the bikes comming past.
i was suprised to get overtaken that close to the front of the pack tbh, but i did think either these peeps wanna be markers really badly or they just haven't realised just how close to the front they are.
Quiff Wichard
10-07-06, 03:03 PM
i wanted to mark to get a good video of everyone !... coming past- but with kim on and the cam etc we wudnt have got back on quick enuff wen Ed came past.. as it was we stopped in a layby on a straight so I knew there was enought time to get up to 30mph to catch Ed up..
BUT--
some thght this was a turn.. my apologies for that.. ... Kim was supposed to be giving you all the finger
Sorry about this, and maybe I'm being a bit of a wuss, but I'm not alone in thinking that there were some very dodgy ovetakes and generally poor/inconsiderate riding on display on the rideout.
I think we can all be happy that there were no accidents and everyone got through safely. Personally me like most new riders would welcome any feedback on my riding style and skills. It is in everyone's interest to mention it during or after if it can assist to avoid incidents in the future or improve road etiquite and skills. Some people are inconsiderate - others just dont know any better and once advised modify their riding to improve.
BTW ...it was you overtook me before those twisty roads on the second section - I like to keep to the left on straights and left hand bends - and leave a little room in front but you both just jammed on through - not sure who was in front of you. Then i was stuck behind you for miles on those twisties :? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry dont know you personally Jabba - but i know that bandit :wink:
creamerybutter
10-07-06, 03:39 PM
right hand bends :?
:? Is that from what I said? If so I was overtaken in the same lane on a right hand bend, I had to compleatly change my line, no idea by who though.
I like to keep to the left on straights
You're honestly compromizing your view ahead by keeping to the left on straights, by keeping just right of the centre of the lane (as a general rule of thumb) you'll be giving yourself a much more advantageous view of the road ahead ;).
Sorry dont know you personally Jabba - but i know that bandit :wink:
Um, Jabba rides a Hornet :lol: :wink: .
.
right hand bends :?
:? Is that from what I said? If so I was overtaken in the same lane on a right hand bend, I had to compleatly change my line, no idea by who though.
no no - i like to stay on the left on straights and right hand bends...
I like to keep to the left on straights
You're honestly compromizing your view ahead by keeping to the left on straights, by keeping just right of the centre of the lane (as a general rule of thumb) you'll be giving yourself a much more advantageous view of the road ahead ;).
Sorry dont know you personally Jabba - but i know that bandit :wink:
Um, Jabba rides a Hornet :lol: :wink: .
. Sorry Jabba meant Hornet - wasnt paying attention. All Hornet and Bandits are out to get me now :reaper:
Spiderman
10-07-06, 04:07 PM
GMonsta.... for what its worth i was saying how much i liked your riding when i was directly behind you on overtakes n things. You, unlike lots of people ive ridden with, think of the rider behind you as well and postion yourself accordingly to allow safer overtaking etc.
Pleasure to ride with you and hear you bikes cans on the go. I said it before and i'll say it again.. Beautiful bike mate :thumright:
GMonsta.... for what its worth i was saying how much i liked your riding when i was directly behind you on overtakes n things. You, unlike lots of people ive ridden with, think of the rider behind you as well and postion yourself accordingly to allow safer overtaking etc.
Pleasure to ride with you and hear you bikes cans on the go. I said it before and i'll say it again.. Beautiful bike mate :thumright:
it sure is a gorgeous bike
...it was you overtook me before those twisty roads on the second section - I like to keep to the left on straights.......
Sorry fella, but I took that as an invitation to go past :-k
Sorry dont know you personally Jabba.......
Be grateful for small mercies :wink:
...but i know that bandit :wink:
[-(
:wink:
Jabba you upgraded the then bike matey :wink:
Jabba you upgraded the then bike matey :wink:
[-(
:wink:
Actually, I'm rather jealous of that black Bandit's downpipes:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/twoponds/sv650/AR06/downpipes.jpg
CoolGirl
10-07-06, 05:20 PM
Interesting thread. As a partial observer and apartial participant, I saw some responsible and considerate riding (and I hope I let you all overtake me when it was safe to do so :oops: ). For such a large group who didn't know each others' styles, it was commendable.
There was one point when I was with Fizz when I had to move and brace on the tank as someone chopped in front of us making him brake hard. Fortunately, I'm experienced enough to have anticipated it and taken action, but it could have been worse if I hadn't (Fizz would probably be talking in a very squeaky voice :shock: )
When I was riding I saw an inexperienced rider in front of me beign overtaken on the approach to a corner, then be DOUBLE overtaken by a sportsbike that cut in front of the both of them. Needless to say, the novice was a little shaken and I had to deal with slamming the anchors on an unfamiliar bike.
Those are the only two incidents I witnessed, but both were avoidable, and the second was and act of pure bravado.
Squid never spoke atruer word at the briefing,when he said "space is your insurance". =D>
Jabba you upgraded the then bike matey :wink:
[-(
:wink:
Actually, I'm rather jealous of that black Bandit's downpipes:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/twoponds/sv650/AR06/downpipes.jpg
they were superb
kwak zzr
10-07-06, 05:25 PM
them downpipes have had hours of love and care :D their my cousins :D
i do love AUTOSOL.
Saint Matt
10-07-06, 05:38 PM
I think there were some nutters, I admit I liked playing cath up but I don't think I took any risks really. If anyone saw that I did anything wrong could they mention it? I was on a T plate blue curvy with a pillion who had a grey helmet, if you don't know who I was :) Cheers mates.
Jelster
10-07-06, 05:45 PM
right hand bends :?
Just a point to note here, and I'm talking in "general" not about Saturday. If the road is wide enough, the view is good enough, and you have the power, I can't see a problem of sticking it up the inside on a right hander, as long as all is safe AND you allow the bike on the left plenty of room.
Maybe that's just me......
.
A traffic cop told me it's pretty common for internet "friends" to cause each other to crash.
kwak zzr
10-07-06, 06:06 PM
why would that be then :?
why would that be then :?
Because they are not used to each other's riding style but their "online familiarity" might create a false sense of security :?:
Saint Matt
10-07-06, 06:10 PM
Thats a very good reason jabba. Another reason I have found is that if you've told "fisherman's stories" then people think they have to live up to them, and push it too far.
A traffic cop told me it's pretty common for internet "friends" to cause each other to crash.
No, that's just Windows.
.
CoolGirl
10-07-06, 06:21 PM
A traffic cop told me it's pretty common for internet "friends" to cause each other to crash.
No, that's just Windows.
.
Get your coat! (and no, you haven't pulled :P )
I think it's a matter of courtesy all round - inexperienced riders need to remember to leave space and the more experienced need to not spook the newbies/slowpokes. Although if you're really experienced you won't do that anyway.....
fizzwheel
10-07-06, 06:40 PM
right hand bends :?
Just a point to note here, and I'm talking in "general" not about Saturday. If the road is wide enough, the view is good enough, and you have the power, I can't see a problem of sticking it up the inside on a right hander, as long as all is safe AND you allow the bike on the left plenty of room.
Maybe that's just me......
.
I can see where you are coming from, I might just add that both riders outta know each others riding. I'd be happy for Liz to make that kinda of move on me as I know and trust her riding. I'm not to sure how impressed I'd be if it was somebody I didnt know.
I think there were some nutters, I admit I liked playing cath up but I don't think I took any risks really. If anyone saw that I did anything wrong could they mention it? I was on a T plate blue curvy with a pillion who had a grey helmet, if you don't know who I was :) Cheers mates.
Yes there were but I dont think they were with us. I know there were 2 sports bikes that came past me like I was standing still [I was pootling along at a sedate 50-60ish] and then went round a left hander on the double whites and narrowly missed an oncoming vehicle.
They definitely werent on the rideout. But glad I was at the back and could do my own thing at my own pace. So Im booking my spot with Ed at the back for AR07 now... :P :wink: :lol: :lol:
And I agree with Fizzs comments above. Someone did that to me coming away from Bats in Biggin Hill a week after my DAS. I was NOT happy.
Jelster, you may think its acceptable but you need to consider the person youre about to do it to. Fine if its someone who knows you, trusts you and you them, but if you dont, then it may well be a new rider you scare the living daylights out of. Which is not very considerate riding imho.
If you cant get past them without cutting round them, then perhaps a bit of patience and consideration until you can overtake cleanly would be better if you dont know them?
FWIW I felt much safer this year compared to last. Last year there was a lot of bunching and slow spead overtaking. I think we were more spread out this year and that made me feel safer.
There was some faster overtaking at times but not very often. I encountered much more politeness this year I think. On the first leg I was in the front few bikes and, rather than wanting to get to the front to be a marker, actually felt quite a lot of pressure to keep up. I was much more comfortable when I found my place somewhere in the middle for the rest of the ride.
But there is another little point - one person did get lost - me! A car pulled out of the turning to the first stop place a little too close for my comfort (not dangerous, I just don't like it) As a result I managed to completely miss the markers. I carried on for a couple more miles before I realised that I was all alone and I'd lost the one bike that was close behing me.
Thoroughly enjoyed the ride and personally thought that the riding standard was pretty good and that the majority of people kept a safe distance when riding and overtaking.
Saw a couple of overtakes that i thought were dodgy, especially one concerning a bus and a cement mixer!, but it also has to be remembered that you cannot see what the overtaking rider can, and it may seem perfectly safe to them while it looks horrendous to someone else a bit further behind.
No one caused me any concern and i hope that i did likewise.
Thanks for the ride and i look forward to the next one!
...it was you overtook me before those twisty roads on the second section - I like to keep to the left on straights.......
Sorry fella, but I took that as an invitation to go past :-k
What I meant earlier was I will stick to the far left hand side of the road on a straight and coming into a right hander - to stay safe and to give me a better view around the bend. I will also drop back from the car in front and accelerate towards it coming into the corner so i can give it some on the straight ahead (if its on) just to get past fast. It was my own fault Jabba et al. I also saw how you took this as an invitation to scoot past - My riding was a little more defensive afterthat - I just sat close to the middle like everyone else 8) (fast learner).
fast learner
No choice on a Tuono as there's only two speeds...........fast and balls-out :lol:
Jealous of your bike - I want one =P~
Anonymous
10-07-06, 07:24 PM
really enjoyed my weekend. was on a new bike and trying to learn how to ride all over again it seemed. was very nervous on first part, more relaxed on second leg and was starting to really get into it on third leg of journey.
had a few moments with silly overtakes (all blue bikes i have to say???!!!) not every blue bike i might add. overtaking on brows of hill, blind bends it was as if one went the 4 bikes behind had to go to. cars approacing having to brake, move over and flash lights. this then made me have to brake before corner, i was concentrating enough on getting my line right, gear right and speed right without having to worry about braking as most of the numpties (squirt and go) were then slamming on brakes.
i just slowed down and stay away from them. but out of 70 bikes only a few silly boys
dirtydog
10-07-06, 07:29 PM
right so we've established that were a few dodgy overtakes on the run, it happens for lots of reasons it could be lack of experience, a misjudgement, inconsideration etc etc blah blah
as they say sh*t happens
do we really want people to remember the weekend for people b*tching about some overtakes or for the otherwise great weekend?
so lets just drop it shall we?
Pleasure to ride with you ...
Ahhh warm and fuzzy - Cheers Spidey - that certainly was a great ride home... !!!
I even managed an overtake on 2 bikes and truck on the outside of a blind left hand bend. TBF it was double lanes going up the viaduct on the A44 somewhere in the Cotswalds - oh and the bikes were taking it real easy :lol:
why would that be then :?
Because they are not used to each other's riding style but their "online familiarity" might create a false sense of security :?:
This could be true.
May be have more designated markers riding at the front wearing hi viz then if they need to play catch up you know to move over foer some one in hi viz.
Apologies for my incident just an example of how a simple overtaking manoeuvre can go nearly wrong.
Sid Squid
10-07-06, 07:41 PM
Squid never spoke a truer word at the briefing,when he said "space is your insurance". =D>
Thank you for that vote of confidence, it is possibly the best piece of advice I ever got - it's so, so true.
Any pressure that any one feels is of their own making, it was made abundantly clear at the outset that there is no need whatsoever to 'keep up', the route is marked, you will not get lost, (well, you can, we can't make you see the markers :lol: ), and no-one need do anything or ride in any manner that they are not entirely comfortable with in order to complete the ride route. If you don't like the pace or the road manners of those around you then drop back, this is no different to your ride to work or anywhere else for that matter, if you don't like the situation then don't be in it
...but it also has to be remembered that you cannot see what the overtaking rider can, and it may seem perfectly safe to them while it looks horrendous to someone else a bit further behind
This is perfectly true.
.
Anonymous
10-07-06, 07:45 PM
right so we've established that were a few dodgy overtakes on the run, it happens for lots of reasons it could be lack of experience, a misjudgement, inconsideration etc etc blah blah
as they say sh*t happens
do we really want people to remember the weekend for people b*tching about some overtakes or for the otherwise great weekend?
so lets just drop it shall we?
well ok :lol:
CoolGirl
10-07-06, 07:50 PM
Squid never spoke a truer word at the briefing,when he said "space is your insurance". =D>
Thank you for that vote of confidence, it is possibly the best piece of advice I ever got - it's so, so true.
Words of Squidsdom indeed. I just trotted it out again - belatedly, unfortunately - to my mate with the 999s, who rode it into the back of a merc at the weekend. #-o (and he agreed)
See, I do listen to you sometimes!
do we really want people to remember the weekend for people b*tching about some overtakes or for the otherwise great weekend?
Nope, that's why there are so many other positive threads. But it's not a bad thing to discuss this particular issue, particularly if it means that next year we can make the ride even better and safer. After all, if there was a serious incident I'm sure none of us would wish to be tarred with the brush of complacency. So I see this thread as having positive intentions.
.
So I see this thread as having positive intentions
That was the intention, whilst it is fresh in the minds of those that were there.
But DD is right, this is just a small blip on the very enjoyable landscape that was AR06. I for one am happy to let it rest at this.
kwak zzr
10-07-06, 08:02 PM
Jabba you upgraded the then bike matey :wink:
[-(
:wink:
Actually, I'm rather jealous of that black Bandit's downpipes:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/twoponds/sv650/AR06/downpipes.jpg
they were superb
me cousin is pleased someone noticed his mega clean downpipes :D
creamerybutter
10-07-06, 08:06 PM
right hand bends :?
Just a point to note here, and I'm talking in "general" not about Saturday. If the road is wide enough, the view is good enough, and you have the power, I can't see a problem of sticking it up the inside on a right hander, as long as all is safe AND you allow the bike on the left plenty of room.
Maybe that's just me......
.
That's fine except when the rider in front has to quickly change their line mid corner so as not to hit the other bike like I had to.
In general I did move over on the straights when quicker riders came through but I didn't like having to do it mid corner while banked over.
northwind
10-07-06, 08:10 PM
I hardly overtook anything :) I've become a little overcautious. Still saw some rubbish ones, but not as many as I'd have expected from many of the other rides I've been on. Just one that sticks in the mind as particularily stupid, and I'm not naming names because I don't know who it was.
I reckon that if you're taking your time and not determined to push on, like I generally was, you can help a little... Just making a little more room, riding to the left when there's someone behind who seems impatient to pass or even (like I did a few times) giving a wee indicate to the left and moving over to get a mirror-filler past you. Nothign excessive or unsafe, don't lose your visibility or hit the gutter, but it's as much in your interest to get an impatient rider past as it is theirs.
Likewise, it's definately a good idea to make space when overtaking just in case someone else follows you into the gap. I saw a few people riding presumably as they usually do- nail an overtake and rein it right back in. Nothing wrong with that at all, but not-my-fault doesn't uncrash bikes- you never know when someone will get rideout disease and follow you into an overtake without planning it out, and find themselves with nowhere to go. It's their mistake but it could be your problem.
I know myself, it's all too easy to get into a follower's mindset on a ride. Ever been lulled into just following the guy in front, then suddenl;y they're gone and your brain's switched off? I have a couple of times, on the road and on track. Never fallen for the "He's going to overtake so I have to as well" thing, but I've seen it so many times.
Anyway... I reckon both DD and Jabba make their points well. But as long as it's on this tone, I think only good can come of it- these are things that can make next year, or in fact any rideout, better. Call it constructive criticism.
Peter Henry
10-07-06, 08:15 PM
Jeńster wrote:
I can't see a problem of sticking it up the inside on a right hander
Sorry Steve but that in my opinion is the most unsafe comment I have read on this forum,like ever. Totally ridiculous to even suggest such a thing is "game on".
If someone has left a reasonable amount of space on entering a bend, it might just be that he plans to reduce that space mid corner by dropping it back in or straight lining. The last thing thay want is someone carving up the inside of them. The thought is just too ridiculous for words.
If you have to overtake on a bend...(and I really do not see why anyone really should?) This should be done on the outside and you better make sure you have the riding ability to take the very different bend that you have created for yourself.
FFS only the best track riders should ever consider an under take in a bend.
Sorry but that is many years experience talking there, as opposed perhaps to many miles experience. :?
General question to those that attended the ride out......
I dont understand why it would not have been possible for someone wishing to over take to just simply ease on by the side of a slower rider whilst still remaining on their own side of the road? Am I to assume that everyone was riding in the middle of the side of the road they were riding on? Or were many of the roads very narrow?
If people were not sticking steadfastly to the centre of the lane they were riding on it should be easy enough for people to move by and perhaps stay alongside until a reasonable gap opens for them to ease back in to file? :?
Also was there a tendency to follow "trunk to tail" on the ride? Even when on fsater ride outs, our practise is to be staggered which automatically creates more space to brake without hindering the bike immediately ahead of you on the road?
Top rider Northwind - def. noted the space you left when in front and behind me - to your right and your front :thumbsup: - I followed you out at the start.
northwind
10-07-06, 08:25 PM
When you're slow, you've got to be slow properly :)
fizzwheel
10-07-06, 08:25 PM
If people were not sticking steadfastly to the centre of the lane they were riding on it should be easy enough for people to move by and perhaps stay alongside until a reasonable gap opens for them to ease back in to file? :?
Also was there a tendency to follow "trunk to tail" on the ride? Even when on fsater ride outs, our practise is to be staggered which automatically creates more space to brake without hindering the bike immediately ahead of you on the road?
Nail on the head Peter this is exactly the trouble. To many people sat right on the white line in the middle of the road and not riding in staggered formation.
I too was guilty of sitting on the white line at one point in the afternoon, mainly because I was getting annoyed with being overtaken and chopped in front of. So at one point I took an attitude of "you'll overtake when I want you to and not damn well before"
I know it was very arrogant of me to do that, But I was getting annoyed and I wanted some space around me so I used the power at my disposal to do so.
valleyboy
10-07-06, 08:52 PM
I generaly ride in staggered formation in a group anyway.. Ive ridden with the Bristol lot so many times, it becomes second nature to stagger ourselves....
I had a few people overtake me.. scared the hell out of me.. my bike wasnt behaving that weekend, so didnt have the confidence to do mad overtakes at all.. I was pushing my luck on the straights....
so if you saw a green B1 Ninja being ridden slowly.. that one was me! :lol: though I generaly stayed near the back most of the time.. less hassle back there... :lol:
caz650s
10-07-06, 08:54 PM
right so we've established that were a few dodgy overtakes on the run, it happens for lots of reasons it could be lack of experience, a misjudgement, inconsideration etc etc blah blah
as they say sh*t happens
do we really want people to remember the weekend for people b*tching about some overtakes or for the otherwise great weekend?
so lets just drop it shall we?
I agree ! ...Hopefully some lessons have been learnt but lets savour all the good bits that were 99.9% of the weekend :D
right so we've established that were a few dodgy overtakes on the run, it happens for lots of reasons it could be lack of experience, a misjudgement, inconsideration etc etc blah blah
as they say sh*t happens
do we really want people to remember the weekend for people b*tching about some overtakes or for the otherwise great weekend?
so lets just drop it shall we?
I agree ! ...Hopefully some lessons have been learnt,but lets savour all the good bits that were 99.9% of the weekend :D
Ditto above.
When you're slow, you've got to be slow properly :)
Youre not that slow, I never overtook you :wink: :P :lol:
I'm glad this has come up so soon after the rideout, as John had taken the time at the beginning of the ride to ask peeps to ride sensibly and considerably to other road users and bikes on the rideout, we also kept the legs fairly reasonable in distance so that people wouldn't get too split up, on the whole people rode well but i was cut up two or three times and witnessed some dodgy overtakes as well, ones which could have been made safely only a few moments later. Bev, as pillion also commented on a few occasions as we were overtaken right into corners. It's very difficult for the organisers if people are riding dangerously to tell them to leave the ride and fortunately it didn't come to that but the safety of people is paramount and having taken the time to plan everything it would be terrible if there had been an accident. i hope this thread does not have to be repeated after the next ride out in 2007. To close i will say again that the vast majority rode very well and Bev and i had a wonderful day.
Daryl :D
Balky001
10-07-06, 09:18 PM
I know it was very arrogant of me to do that, But I was getting annoyed and I wanted some space around me so I used the power at my disposal to do so.
Now now, do you think you should have carried on riding in this state of mind, epsecially with a pillion? A nice cuppa (not on the move) would have sorted that out :wink: :lol:
Well it all sounds pretty good to me - a few dodgy overtakes, a couple of apologies for said overtakes a lots of room being made (except when Fizz was getting annoyed - remember - wing man, not track cycling!) - I wish the A13 motorcyclists could be that well behaved!
Riding in a group is particularly difficult if its not with people you ride with regularly and you'll always get a difference of opinion on what's safe etc, but it sounds like you generallt all had a good time. :thumbsup: So who was racing rhe sports bikes - hands up??? [-X
northwind
10-07-06, 09:36 PM
When you're slow, you've got to be slow properly :)
Youre not that slow, I never overtook you :wink: :P :lol:
I rode with you and The Man From Visordown Whose Name I Forget ( :oops: ) for a bit, I like your pace. I tend to ride like that when out by myself, it was good to find it on that leg of the run- great road for it. (rode it again yesterday at about twice the speed, it was less good!)
Quiff Wichard
10-07-06, 10:06 PM
dont think north was sayin he is slow..
jsut when u go slow.. go slow properly ..
myself>
I tried to stagger and always tried to use my mirros and let folk past with an indication to the left at times.. I recall
fizz popping past me and Sid and jelster but I know they knew I had seen them and i have no bravado to beat them- they are better riders than me.. so give htem their legs.. ...
I learned fromlast year TBH when I was sat behind Lynne a little close and peed her off cos I didnt commit to going past or leave enuff room which i now see is worrying.. we sorted it out on a Pm last year after AR05 and i took it with me this year along with another years riding experience..
I think in geberal.. a high % - a majority was perfect and fun and it all felt like teamwork.. which I love... in fact (but i am an emotional sod) at times ina group ride when everyone is staggered .. then everyone bunny hopes through the cars like a well oiled machine it makes u swallow hard and goose pimples cos you are part of it!!.. I get this often with my regular lads I ride with.. i get it at footy when i just know benny will be htere for the pass to space... but - put 60 riders together or eleven footballers together who are strangers ,,, and well it aint gonna gel the same..
There's no substitute for experience and you only get experience with time.
overall it was safe , well organised and fun.. just think the adrenalin flowed a bit too fast in some cases and others got sucked into a situation where their ambition exceeded their ability .... I can walk but I cant climb Everest- I can run but will never beat Linford Christie and I can ride a bike but that wont make me valentino..
good discussion- good thread.. and PLEASE anyone reading who wasnt there- dont let it put you off attending next year.. !...
these really are minor incidents and I saw none - cos like Lynne said- and messy said.. I found my place.. and sat with like riders.. I think the main hooo haa and speediness and risks were with the big boys and Kim doesnt like me playing with big boys...
Jelster
10-07-06, 10:10 PM
Jeńster wrote:
I can't see a problem of sticking it up the inside on a right hander
Sorry Steve but that in my opinion is the most unsafe comment I have read on this forum,like ever. Totally ridiculous to even suggest such a thing is "game on".
If someone has left a reasonable amount of space on entering a bend, it might just be that he plans to reduce that space mid corner by dropping it back in or straight lining. The last thing thay want is someone carving up the inside of them. The thought is just too ridiculous for words.
If you have to overtake on a bend...(and I really do not see why anyone really should?) This should be done on the outside and you better make sure you have the riding ability to take the very different bend that you have created for yourself.
FFS only the best track riders should ever consider an under take in a bend.
Sorry but that is many years experience talking there, as opposed perhaps to many miles experience. :?
See, I knew my comment would get this type of response. If the road is wide and open (so you can see through the bend) and the guy on the left knows you are there, what's the problem ?? I'm not talking about tight 90 degree bends here, I'm talking "sweepers".
I could name a couple of people on here that have taken me on the inside a few years ago when I was not as confident (or as fast) as I am now, and these are "respected" riders.....
And, for what it's worth, I went to go round Topcat on the way home, around the outside on a 2 lane road and was worried because I didn't think he's seen me and backed off, even though I was in the "faster" lane. It's all about observation, and being able to predict what the other bike will do. I wouldn't attempt it with somebody I haven't done many miles with.
And Fizz, in response to your earlier comment about the ride up in the lakes, yes, the pace was much quicker, but the group was smaller (sometimes just 3 or 4 bikes once we split up) and GENERALLY, the riders were more experienced.
There is a time and a place for "rapid" riding, and Saturday was neither.
.
northwind
10-07-06, 10:20 PM
(Thanks Quiff, but I'm pretty slow on the roads... I can be fast, but I usually don't see much point if I'm honest.)
See, I knew my comment would get this type of response. If the road is wide and open (so you can see through the bend) and the guy on the left knows you are there, what's the problem ?? I'm not talking about tight 90 degree bends here, I'm talking "sweepers".
I could name a couple of people on here that have taken me on the inside a few years ago when I was not as confident (or as fast) as I am now, and these are "respected" riders.....
Exactly.... How delighted were you to have someone pop up the inside when you weren't expecting it? I've seen people get so shocked by an overtake they're not expecting that they stand it right up, mid-corner. Not good. Just because you know they're there, it doesn't mean they know you're coming by- and if you don't know the rider in question, who knows how much of the road they're going to use up?
I'm not saying it's always wrong, I totally agree with you there, but in a ride like saturdays I think it usually would be, unless you're leaving a huge amount of space. In lefts, it was made clear at the start to do no undertakes at all, and in rights I'd have said it'd only be totally safe on the other side of the road. And visibility doesn't often offer that in rights.
dont think north was sayin he is slow..
jsut when u go slow.. go slow properly ..
I know, I was just messing with him :wink: :P :lol:
I learned fromlast year TBH when I was sat behind Lynne a little close and peed her off cos I didnt commit to going past or leave enuff room which i now see is worrying.. we sorted it out on a Pm last year after AR05 and i took it with me this year along with another years riding experience..
I think what I probably didnt say last year was that was my first big trip on the SV after 4 accidents in 5 months. My confidence was shot to bits and I found people sitting in my blind spot very un-nerving probably more so than I would usually have done, wasnt so much the closeness but I just couldnt see what you were doing.
But nice to see you have taken that on board. :D
I'm glad this has come up so soon after the rideout, as John had taken the time at the beginning of the ride to ask peeps to ride sensibly and considerably to other road users and bikes on the rideout, we also kept the legs fairly reasonable in distance so that people wouldn't get too split up, on the whole people rode well but i was cut up two or three times and witnessed some dodgy overtakes as well, ones which could have been made safely only a few moments later. Bev, as pillion also commented on a few occasions as we were overtaken right into corners. It's very difficult for the organisers if people are riding dangerously to tell them to leave the ride and fortunately it didn't come to that but the safety of people is paramount and having taken the time to plan everything it would be terrible if there had been an accident. i hope this thread does not have to be repeated after the next ride out in 2007. To close i will say again that the vast majority rode very well and Bev and i had a wonderful day.
Daryl :D
Can someone please remember to bump this thread just BEFORE AR07 so the Newbies and others can have a better idea of what is expected of them.
At least none of the AR06 attendees were guilty of wheelying into the back of a Mercedes like the guy on the Kawasaki at the final stop (Quatford?) nearly did. Now that was silly :shock:
Quiff Wichard
10-07-06, 11:22 PM
dont think north was sayin he is slow..
jsut when u go slow.. go slow properly ..
I know, I was just messing with him :wink: :P :lol:
I learned fromlast year TBH when I was sat behind Lynne a little close and peed her off cos I didnt commit to going past or leave enuff room which i now see is worrying.. we sorted it out on a Pm last year after AR05 and i took it with me this year along with another years riding experience..
I think what I probably didnt say last year was that was my first big trip on the SV after 4 accidents in 5 months. My confidence was shot to bits and I found people sitting in my blind spot very un-nerving probably more so than I would usually have done, wasnt so much the closeness but I just couldnt see what you were doing.
But nice to see you have taken that on board. :D
take evryhting you say on board Lynn .... just wish I was northwind though and you were messing with me..
>> back to thread.
Jelster
11-07-06, 07:40 AM
I'm not saying it's always wrong, I totally agree with you there, but in a ride like saturdays I think it usually would be, unless you're leaving a huge amount of space. In lefts, it was made clear at the start to do no undertakes at all, and in rights I'd have said it'd only be totally safe on the other side of the road. And visibility doesn't often offer that in rights.
Yep, exactly. Like I said, time & place....
And I wouldn't contemplate doing it on the same side of the road !!! (unless it was multiple lanes). This in effect overtaking, not undertaking BTW, as you're on the right of the rider.....
.
Anonymous
11-07-06, 08:12 AM
At least none of the AR06 attendees were guilty of wheelying into the back of a Mercedes like the guy on the Kawasaki at the final stop (Quatford?) nearly did. Now that was silly :shock:
saw that, it was a bit of a close thing lol
creamerybutter
11-07-06, 08:22 AM
At least none of the AR06 attendees were guilty of wheelying into the back of a Mercedes like the guy on the Kawasaki at the final stop (Quatford?) nearly did. Now that was silly :shock:
saw that, it was a bit of a close thing lol
Aye I thought he was after a lift.
I dislike riding in large groups, always have always will, unless im leading. Last year i got lost(Marker went walkabout) and ended up on the most glorious route around the 'wolds on my own until i found scoobs...now you dont need that :D
fizzwheel
11-07-06, 09:04 AM
I tried to stagger and always tried to use my mirros and let folk past with an indication to the left at times.. I recall
fizz popping past me and Sid and jelster but I know they knew I had seen them and i have no bravado to beat them- they are better riders than me.. so give htem their legs.. ...
Quiff and also Lynw I really thought that was a nice touch that you did that, flick the indicator on so I knew that you had seen me and then I was able to nip by leaving you plenty of room.
And Quiff you under estimate your riding Sir. Fast and smooth IMHO. I was quite happy to sit behind you and Kim when I had Northy on the back I know what you mean about the camaraderie of riding together.
Spot on.
8)
kwak zzr
11-07-06, 02:14 PM
when faster bikes aproach (jelster,bloke on yellow blade,tuono) i usually pull to the left and wave them on, pointless getting in the way and making overtaking difficult and dangerous.
I tried to stagger and always tried to use my mirros and let folk past with an indication to the left at times.. I recall
fizz popping past me and Sid and jelster but I know they knew I had seen them and i have no bravado to beat them- they are better riders than me.. so give htem their legs.. ...
Quiff and also Lynw I really thought that was a nice touch that you did that, flick the indicator on so I knew that you had seen me and then I was able to nip by leaving you plenty of room.
And Quiff you under estimate your riding Sir. Fast and smooth IMHO. I was quite happy to sit behind you and Kim when I had Northy on the back I know what you mean about the camaraderie of riding together.
Spot on.
I like that tip will use it myself in future!
8)
Quiff Wichard
11-07-06, 06:52 PM
anna you ride well and you are fine as ur.. see the vid clip.. we passed you easy-- and WE are a wide load !!
cheers Fizz.. :oops:
...but it also has to be remembered that you cannot see what the overtaking rider can, and it may seem perfectly safe to them while it looks horrendous to someone else a bit further behind
This is perfectly true.
.
OK already :roll: Jeez, talk about dragging it out. :roll:
:wink: :lol:
Just been catching up with the forums after my time away from the office. As some of you folks know I wasn't able to make the AR, and if I had of made it, I'd of been a serious novice on a large bike (having only spent a while riding a CG before buying the SV). The bad overtaking worries me a little to say the least, but as has been said many times, I know it happens in large rides.
From what I've read, it seems like the minority spoilt the riding for the majority. I know it's been said that if offenders are behaving too badly they'll be asked to leave the ride. Worst case (note: worst case) scenario, it's a public road, they could 'choose' to ride the same direction.
With this in mind, perhaps borrowing from my kids school policy would help. Their school says that if you park on the yellow zig-zag and are seen by staff, they'll write your number plate down. If you get 3 strikes in a term, they pass your details to the local Plod. The police have been forwarned about the school's policy & back them up 100%.
Maybe something like X people complain over Y legs, and you're asked to leave the ride. Refuse, or tag along, and your 3 strikes are considered served. This could be especially beneficial for the AR. Firstly, bad behaviour would be discouraged. Secondly (especially because I live under Bronstrums' rule), the police would be aware of the AR, it's route, expected numbers, and most importantly, the fact that the community as a whole want to police themselves. How many times have we read about bike meets being closed because they're too big, or causing a disturbance to locals etc? Surely self-policing could only been seen as a good thing.
Oh yea, and (so long as I don't get flamed to death for the idea) I'll hopefully see you all on AR07 :)
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