View Full Version : 2 near misses in 2 days - partly my blame ?
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 06:34 AM
OK first one yesterday on the way home from Work
A Road traffic is moving @20 mph
long stretch of road, no oncoming traffic so I overtake @70mph.
Suddenly a car pulls out in front of me to turn right. I didn't see any indicators but even if they where on isn't he supposed to look into his mirror ?????!!
Slammed the brakes - that slowed me down just enough to wave around his car.
2nd one this morning.
I join the A12 off the Slip road I'm stuck behind a lorry doing 65mph.
I indicate look into my mirror, turn my head. OK a car is there but its far away. I pull out & overtake the lorry, keep an eye on my mirror - the car gets bigger & bigger :shock: :shock: :shock: So I pulled as close as possible to the left side next to the lorry - the car overtakes me on the right.
After the shock I gunned it to catch up - no chance this guy must have been doing approx 150mph. Eventually I caught up at slow moving traffic. He is staring straight ahead and ignores me. Young boy racer type.
Judging on Speed & Angle of Impact:
On the first one If I hit the car I would have broken some bones but still be around :D :roll:
Second one would have been a fatality, no doubt.
Anyway I avoided both accidents. But if I didn't would any of those 2 be partly my fault ?
I'[m finding myself riding alot slower again.
Thanks
Carsick
14-07-06, 06:40 AM
1st one almsot certainly, they should check mirrors but with that difference in speed you could easily appear after they have looked but before they turn.
2nd one, you should have judged speed better, but he was a prat for not slowing down when he saw a lorry and you. His fault in reality.
454697819
14-07-06, 06:43 AM
1st one almsot certainly, they should check mirrors but with that difference in speed you could easily appear after they have looked but before they turn.
2nd one, you should have judged speed better, but he was a prat for not slowing down when he saw a lorry and you. His fault in reality.
your not the first to miss judge speed like that, i did that on the a14 one day, scared the drap outa me,
again guy in a corsa over took on right hand side, must have been doing 90mph and sum..
First one difficult to say but you must take a considerable share of the blame IMHO. You were speeding, for a start!!
A 50mph speed differential is too much for filtering IMHO, which as Carsick says might explain to some extent why the guy either didn't see you or misjudged your speed.
Plus, you were overtaking at a junction, which is normally either a "no no" or should be done very carefully at a speed where you can see everything and stop if you have to. With a long queue of traffic moving that slowly it's odd-on that someone will try to beat the queue by rat-running through side streets.
2nd one you might be criticised for poor obervation but the guy was speeding and excessively so. Perhaps you might have stayed behind the lorry a little longer to take a more complete picture of the speeds of those around you, but that's hard to say as I wasn't there.
Carsick
14-07-06, 06:58 AM
On the plus side, they were misses, so you get the benefit of wisdom with none of the associated damage/injury/insurance issues.
If it makes you feel any better, I've done both in the past.
If it makes you feel any better, I've done both in the past.
Aye.....me too :oops:
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Learn from the experiences and you'll be fine :D
Bluepete
14-07-06, 07:14 AM
The first one is the same as the second one. The driver in the first one probably didn't judge your difference in speed properly, neither did you with the second one. Luckily, you lived and will hopefully learn :D
The driver in the first one probably didn't judge your difference in speed properly, neither did you with the second one.
An elegant summary :thumbsup:
Victim and perpetrator :lol:
I won't pass judgement.
The car from behind the best way to judge speed is to look, look away and then look again. It only takes micro seconds and you can make better decisions based on these 2 mental pictures.
As for the boy racer I'd have just knocked on his window and then told him I was reporting him for dangerous driving. No aggro from me, if your bike is right at his driver's door he can't get out and attack you either. It would be best to let him drive off first tho...
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 07:39 AM
I'm sure I should have judged the speed better, but to be honest I'd have never expect a car overtaking that fast & not slowing down :shock:
...but to be honest I'd have never expect a car overtaking that fast & not slowing down :shock:
Always expect the unexpected :thumbsup:
The Basket
14-07-06, 07:58 AM
When I ride me bike, I am seemingly in close shaves that are not my fault. Even riding within my own abilities. Make ya realise how exposed I am.
Went to a Bike Safe thingy to listen to some expert. He said that all motorcycle crashes are the fault of the motorcyclist. Even if a car pulls out on you, it's your fault.
What utter rubbish. I didn't bother staying for the rest.
Flamin_Squirrel
14-07-06, 08:03 AM
When I ride me bike, I am seemingly in close shaves that are not my fault. Even riding within my own abilities. Make ya realise how exposed I am.
Went to a Bike Safe thingy to listen to some expert. He said that all motorcycle crashes are the fault of the motorcyclist. Even if a car pulls out on you, it's your fault.
What utter rubbish. I didn't bother staying for the rest.
Agree with it or not, the fact is there's no point being right if you're dead.
Riding around safe in the knowledge your it'll never be your fault doesnt mean there isnt anything you can do to avoid accidents.
The Basket
14-07-06, 08:18 AM
A local rider on a Beemer who is a good,safe rider by any standard was taken out in a slow speed crash by a car turning in front of him. The female driver was going the doctors 'in a very emotional state'. The rider was unhurt but the BMW was scrap.
Can't do anything in this situ but pull the brakes and hope.
Can't do anything in this situ but pull the brakes and hope.
Perhaps a "what if that car ahead unexpectedly turns right in front of me?" might have helped?
Maybe he did have the thought, which is why he was unhurt? Who knows?
johnnyrod
14-07-06, 08:42 AM
Patrick, second incident wasn't your fault, if the guy was really that far away then you can't expect a car to go that fast very often - maybe a judgement problem but doens't really sound like it.
First one - at which point did you not spot the right-hand turn? Talk about a classic way to get killed. If you saw the junction there's no way you should have been overtaking. I'm not you and wasn't there so I don't know if it was a plain ****-up or you just didn't see it.
Someone knocked me off my bike twice while stationary - so was it my fault they're blind? Cobblers, innit. Someone nearly pulled out of a T junction in front of me on Wednesday night because they couldn't be arsed to stop and look properly, guess that would have been my fault too. Think I will make reference to the thread about alternative energy sources and reprise the suggestion of shoving cars into incinerators.
rictus01
14-07-06, 08:43 AM
although obviously not being there, on the face of it, two coments and one thought spring to mind.
cars don't always signal their intent, however they do give other signs they are moving out of lane, be it drivers head moving,whell turning, that sort of thing
secondly, any vehicle behind you should have observed more than once so should be able to gauge it's speed.
and the thought, I've said it before, Observational speed, if you're going faster than that, it's to fast.
Cheers Mark.
northum
14-07-06, 08:48 AM
Am I the only one who wnats to know what car the "Young boy racer type" was driving? I've never seen a corsa/saxo do 150mph! :lol: :shock:
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 08:51 AM
I didn't look to be honest as I was still a bit in shock.
But I was doing 130mph trying to catch up with him and didn't have a chance.
OK first one yesterday on the way home from Work
A Road traffic is moving @20 mph
long stretch of road, no oncoming traffic so I overtake @70mph.
Suddenly a car pulls out in front of me to turn right. I didn't see any indicators but even if they where on isn't he supposed to look into his mirror ?????!!
Slammed the brakes - that slowed me down just enough to wave around his car.
Sounds like my accident. Except traffic was doing 5mph, and I was doing less than 20. Bike is written off, and I have a broken collar bone.
I'[m finding myself riding alot slower again.
Good idea.
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 09:03 AM
Oh and I forgot on the first one
the car turned right into a farm road which I didn't see
Warthog
14-07-06, 09:10 AM
My tuppence:
1st) I would never go at 70 mph overtaking 20mph traffic, especially at a junction. Your fault in my opinion.
2nd) I'd say pretty much the other guys fault. If you look in your mirrors, see a car miles back, and pull out, you are subconciously judging whether he can make it to your position at a reasonable speed by the time you have overtaken. Him doing 150 mph throws this out completely. But what I wanna know, is if you saw him getting larger and larger whilst you were overtaking, why didn't you blip it and overtake and pull in after the lorry rather than pull left beside the lorry?
timwilky
14-07-06, 09:10 AM
Sorry to say it but in both cases you broke the basic rule. Ride like your invisible.
Expect all traffic in front to manoeuvre without indication, if there is a junction expect traffic will use it irrespective of right of way, priority etc.
also don't just do rear observation before you manoeuvre, do it all the time. know what is behind you and the distance.
Red ones
14-07-06, 09:18 AM
Does it matter who is technically to blame?
Observation, observation, observation.
1. Slow moving line of traffic. Turning to the right (whether it be a road, a lay-by a farm track ...) Risk of someone turning. Speed differential. RISK!
2. Slower traffic ahead, car behind, wrong side of the carriageway. RISK! Car behind driven by nutter (RISK! - albeit unknown at the time!)
Further to 2. RISK! - Chasing to keep up. The man is a nutter, don't go following him, let him affect someone elses day!
Whether or not you are to blame - look at the situation and work out how to avoid it in the future, is there an escape route, could you have made yourself more visible. Speed, Lights, Position, Observation - could these have been any better and removed the near misses? Once you start analysing each every ride and near miss like this as a routine review of your ride you will find a) they don't happen so often, b) you tend to get to places quicker.
I am a great fan of the Police way of riding - they not look quick sitting upright and riding defensively, but you try following them!
Sorry to say it but in both cases you broke the basic rule. Ride like your invisible.
Expect all traffic in front to manoeuvre without indication, if there is a junction expect traffic will use it irrespective of right of way, priority etc.
also don't just do rear observation before you manoeuvre, do it all the time. know what is behind you and the distance.
I like what you are saying and agree with you and the all accidents are (partly) Motorcylist fault above (nobody asked you to leave your home). But how do you cope with e.g. Dual carriageway 60mph limit cars crossing from your right. If they are going to pull out because SMIDSY, how slow would you reasonably approach them in case they do pull out?
Red ones
14-07-06, 09:39 AM
But how do you cope with e.g. Dual carriageway 60mph limit cars crossing from your right. If they are going to pull out because SMIDSY, how slow would you reasonably approach them in case the do pull out?
Would you be appraching them at 50+mph above their speed?
Went to a Bike Safe thingy to listen to some expert. He said that all motorcycle crashes are the fault of the motorcyclist. Even if a car pulls out on you, it's your fault.
What utter rubbish. I didn't bother staying for the rest.
I wouldn't call that rubbish, I agree with him from a certain point of view. Namely that, on a bike, you are in an inferior position of vulnerability - so you need to place yourself in a superior position of mentality.
And being superior makes everything your fault because there should have been something you could have done to avoid the situation - no matter how stupid the driver.
It's an extreme viewpoint I agree, and not entirely practical as there are situations that you simply couldn't avoid - except perhaps by not setting foot outside your bed anyway. But for the most part there is much that can be avoided by a clever, observant biker.
What's really sad is that we have to turn ourselves into these mentally arrogant, superior thinking guardians of safety because the current state of driving and roads is against us. But it's not alawys the case. Every now and then you have a perfect, unsullied ride - and those are the days we live for. :twisted:
timwilky
14-07-06, 09:59 AM
Sorry to say it but in both cases you broke the basic rule. Ride like your invisible.
Expect all traffic in front to manoeuvre without indication, if there is a junction expect traffic will use it irrespective of right of way, priority etc.
also don't just do rear observation before you manoeuvre, do it all the time. know what is behind you and the distance.
I like what you are saying and agree with you and the all accidents are (partly) Motorcylist fault above (nobody asked you to leave your home). But how do you cope with e.g. Dual carriageway 60mph limit cars crossing from your right. If they are going to pull out because SMIDSY, how slow would you reasonably approach them in case they do pull out?
Of course you are not going to slow down approaching every junction. But at the end of the day you should be doing a simple risk analysis.
Is there a vehicle on or approaching the junction, have they seen me, does it appear that they are going to pull out, what is my route out of this if they do etc. By riding defensively knowing what you are going to do when and why you can also ride quicker than the riders who are constantly grabbing their brakes because they are forced into panicing.
So it is not just observation, it is having a plan. even a small one is better than none at all. ooh err missus! I can't believe I just said that.
Red ones
14-07-06, 10:01 AM
Went to a Bike Safe thingy to listen to some expert. He said that all motorcycle crashes are the fault of the motorcyclist. Even if a car pulls out on you, it's your fault.
What utter rubbish. I didn't bother staying for the rest.
I wouldn't call that rubbish, I agree with him from a certain point of view. Namely that, on a bike, you are in an inferior position of vulnerability - so you need to place yourself in a superior position of mentality.
:smt023
When I ride me bike, I am seemingly in close shaves that are not my fault. Even riding within my own abilities. Make ya realise how exposed I am.
Some of the best feedback to the most critical. Take it on the chin and take it in. There is little merit in walking out of a course like Bike Safe because the instructor is a **** and feeling right when you are lying in a hospital bed working out how to upload the images of your injuries to 650.org and looking for sympathy
Do you still have these close shaves, even after walking out of Bike Safe? There is a really nice book I thoroughly recommend to you. "Roadcraft: The Police Rider's handbook to better motorcycling"
The Basket
14-07-06, 10:27 AM
This actually happened on my IAM test ride.
I was doing below the speed limit and smack bang in the middle of the road for perfect visibility.
A car...a red Suzuki 4-wheeler just pulled out clean in front of me! He made no attempt to stop at the junction. Fortunately he turned left so was in front of me rather than pull out because I would have had no where to go.
I was being Mr IAM and still this happens! The actions of a driver cannot be my fault.
Jools'SV Now
14-07-06, 10:30 AM
RE SMIDSY
Article a while back stated it was to do with a phenom' called 'lurking'
'Lurking' is you becoming invisible by appearing stationery in your background, despite moving at speed - insects use it to stalk their prey.
To break the lurking effect you should weave about a bit on approaches to junctions, not just go dead ahead.
If you think they've not seen you. USE THE HORN & SLOW DOWN
If you think they've seen you. USE THE HORN & SLOW DOWN
If in ANY doubt. USE THE HORN & SLOW DOWN
(Must get a louder horn :roll: )
Re your near misses.
1, def your fault - you were overtaking where it wasn't safe to do so (junction) at an unsafe speed differential
2, your fault, you were overtaking when it wasn't safe to so having misjudged someone else's speed.
However, don't beat yourself up over it, we all make mistakes every time we ride.
I call myself a **** at least twice everytime I go out.
whether it's cocking up a corner, blocking myself in behind a bus, not spotting a junction, gravel, drain cover, looking at the speedo and realising I'm in ban territory etc etc.
Flamin_Squirrel
14-07-06, 10:34 AM
This actually happened on my IAM test ride.
I was doing below the speed limit and smack bang in the middle of the road for perfect visibility.
A car...a red Suzuki 4-wheeler just pulled out clean in front of me! He made no attempt to stop at the junction. Fortunately he turned left so was in front of me rather than pull out because I would have had no where to go.
I was being Mr IAM and still this happens! The actions of a driver cannot be my fault.
Somehow I think you're missing the point.
The Basket
14-07-06, 10:47 AM
Somehow I think you're missing the point.
Probably. :?
21QUEST
14-07-06, 10:54 AM
Somehow I think you're missing the point.
Probably. :?
..and I'm not being sarcastic but that is a good start :wink:
Cheers
Ben
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 11:12 AM
I don't agree with you :lol:
1st one. If it comes down to insurance claim - The guy didn't look in his mirror
I have a remus - it's pretty loud. He must have heard me. Other cars pulled to the side.
2nd one - The guy was doing 150mph!!!!!!! How am I to blame ? As far as I remember Speed limit is 70mph or has it suddenly changed overnight ?
But what I wanna know, is if you saw him getting larger and larger whilst you were overtaking, why didn't you blip it and overtake and pull in after the lorry rather than pull left beside the lorry?
I did, but the guy was doing approx 150mph.
Carsick
14-07-06, 11:30 AM
Dude, you can't claim he was going too fast if you won't admit to going too fast yourself.
Maybe he did look and you weren't there, maybe he didn't.
It's not really relevent which it is cos either way it can and will happen if you're passing queues of traffic.
Insurance wise, I believe you're wrong, since in this case you were demonstrably making a fast overtake in an inappropriate place.
Flamin_Squirrel
14-07-06, 11:32 AM
I don't agree with you :lol:
1st one. If it comes down to insurance claim - The guy didn't look in his mirror
I have a remus - it's pretty loud. He must have heard me. Other cars pulled to the side.
2nd one - The guy was doing 150mph!!!!!!! How am I to blame ? As far as I remember Speed limit is 70mph or has it suddenly changed overnight ?
But what I wanna know, is if you saw him getting larger and larger whilst you were overtaking, why didn't you blip it and overtake and pull in after the lorry rather than pull left beside the lorry?
I did, but the guy was doing approx 150mph.
So it's ok for your speed to cause an accident but not someone elses?
pegasus
14-07-06, 11:36 AM
2 incidents and your still alive to tell the tale....i would class that as a good day.
now look forward to tomorrow
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 11:48 AM
So it's ok for your speed to cause an accident but not someone elses?
I was within the speed limit....
Carsick
14-07-06, 11:53 AM
I was within the speed limit....
A 70 limit where there is a chance of oncoming traffic? They don't exist in Britain, to the best of my knowledge.
Only 70 limits are dual carriageways and motorways, your description matches neither.
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 11:58 AM
Ok I didn't know that.
What's the Speed limit on an A road then single carriage way ?
60mph ?
There is a difference if you go +10mph speed limit or +80mph speed limit
Carsick
14-07-06, 12:01 PM
Unclassified roads are 60.
Yes, there's a difference, but the point is that your speed and his speed were both major contributing factors to the situation becoming dangerous.
I'm not preaching against speeding, btw, I think that might qualify as a little hypocrital. Just hoping you see what the real cause of the situation was, whether he looked or not.
1st one. If it comes down to insurance claim - The guy didn't look in his mirror
I have a remus - it's pretty loud. He must have heard me. Other cars pulled to the side.
:roll:
Spot the accident waiting to happen because you presume someone MUST have heard you because everyone else has. What us the likelihood you get hit by a deaf person or a chav with full volume on the stereo. Bit like presuming youre invincible because youre doing IAM - like the rest of things in life, there are quite simply no guarantees and it will be fatal to presume otherwise. Bit difficult to claim on insurance if youre dead.
And as for looking in mirrors just stop and consider the physics involved here. Guy does a mirror check and youre some way back. He turns and nearly takes you out because when he checks theres plenty of time to do the manouver. However you also have to consider at 70 you are travelling at about 100 ft/second. Thats a big distance in a very short time and can change things immensely.
In this instance I wouldnt advocate it being the drivers fault if it had caused an accident. The bike was speeding and not considering the possibility of this happening. For all we know the driver may have checked his mirrors when the bike was 100 ft away and that would have been enough time had the bike been going slower.
As for 70 past 20mph traffic - bad move end of story. Precisely because people get impatient in queues and look for alternative routes and u turns. Glad lesson has been learnt the less painful way.
2nd one - The guy was doing 150mph!!!!!!! How am I to blame ? As far as I remember Speed limit is 70mph or has it suddenly changed overnight ?
But what I wanna know, is if you saw him getting larger and larger whilst you were overtaking, why didn't you blip it and overtake and pull in after the lorry rather than pull left beside the lorry?
I did, but the guy was doing approx 150mph.
So what if he was? It was far more dangerous imho to do 70 past slow traffic than a car doing 100 on a clearish road.
And I reckon you are way overstating his speed - everyone does. I leave cars behind doing 70 when theyre doing 50 and I reckon if you asked the driver they would reckon I was doing a ton.
But you simply can not ride presuming people are going to obey the limits or have seen you. But why didnt you just gun it past the lorry?
In future consider the following: mirror, signal, mirror, shoulder check, manouver. And if you do pull out on something, gun it past what youre ovetaking and pull back in rather than get too close to a lorry. It WILL hurt if you get too close.
As for The Baskets comments, have you actually considered that you may not be assessing things properly to find yourself in these situations so frequently? Not being funny, but I found changing how I rode and my attitude changed the frequency of how often they happened.
Jools'SV Now the proper term for it is called motion camoflauge btw. Ive posted links on it before on here - its why drivers can look but not see you.
SpankyHam
14-07-06, 12:32 PM
But why didnt you just gun it past the lorry?
In future consider the following: mirror, signal, mirror, shoulder check, manouver. And if you do pull out on something, gun it past what youre ovetaking and pull back in rather than get too close to a lorry. It WILL hurt if you get too close.
I did mirror, signal, mirror, shoulder check, manouver as he was so far away it seemed very safe.
I had no other chance than go close to the lorry otherwise the car would have taken me out.
It doesn't matter now anyway I'm just glad I'm ok.
OK first one yesterday on the way home from Work
A Road traffic is moving @20 mph
long stretch of road, no oncoming traffic so I overtake @70mph.
Suddenly a car pulls out in front of me to turn right. I didn't see any indicators but even if they where on isn't he supposed to look into his mirror ?????!!
Slammed the brakes - that slowed me down just enough to wave around his car.
I have a video of my mate doing exactly the same. I was following on the bike.
I did mirror, signal, mirror, shoulder check, manouver as he was so far away it seemed very safe.
I had no other chance than go close to the lorry otherwise the car would have taken me out.
It doesn't matter now anyway I'm just glad I'm ok.
If he hadnt slowed down or spotted you fair enough, glad youre still here and learning from the experience. :D
But how do you cope with e.g. Dual carriageway 60mph limit cars crossing from your right. If they are going to pull out because SMIDSY, how slow would you reasonably approach them in case the do pull out?
Would you be appraching them at 50+mph above their speed?
Yes why not approach them at 60mph above their speed of 0mph? It's a fast moving Dual Carriageway with no slip road on the right hand side.
Of course you are not going to slow down approaching every junction. But at the end of the day you should be doing a simple risk analysis.
Is there a vehicle on or approaching the junction, have they seen me, does it appear that they are going to pull out, what is my route out of this if they do etc. By riding defensively knowing what you are going to do when and why you can also ride quicker than the riders who are constantly grabbing their brakes because they are forced into panicing.
So it is not just observation, it is having a plan. even a small one is better than none at all. ooh err missus! I can't believe I just said that.
Thanks - V helpful
But how do you cope with e.g. Dual carriageway 60mph limit cars crossing from your right. If they are going to pull out because SMIDSY, how slow would you reasonably approach them in case the do pull out?
Would you be appraching them at 50+mph above their speed?
Yes why not approach them at 60mph above their speed of 0mph? It's a fast moving Dual Carriageway with no slip road on the right hand side.
If you are doing 60mph and they are doing 0mph then a simple risk assessment, as Tim rightly suggests, ought to tell you that your aren't going to travel very far before someone pulls out on you.
Also, if they are doing 0mph then it simply isn't a fast-moving dual carriageway - all you are doing is gunning it past a line of potential hazards.
This actually happened on my IAM test ride.
How did the test go?
Carsick
14-07-06, 01:28 PM
If you are doing 60mph and they are doing 0mph then a simple risk assessment, as Tim rightly suggests, ought to tell you that your aren't going to travel very far before someone pulls out on you.
Also, if they are doing 0mph then it simply isn't a fast-moving dual carriageway - all you are doing is gunning it past a line of potential hazards.
I think he means a dual curriageway with a turning that comes across the central reservation, so somebody is on your right waiting to pull out.
I would suggest treating it like any other person waiting to pull out. Get yourself at a speed where you can deal with what they do, either by avoiding action or by braking more.
Give yourself the best chance you can.
What's the Speed limit on an A road then single carriage way ?
Unless posted otherwise, the National Speed Limit is 60mph.
Motorways and Dual Carriageways with a central reservation are 70mph unless otherwise posted lower.
This is basic stuff. Get a copy of the Highway Code and read it before you get caught doing something you shouldn't.
And, as someone else suggested (Red Ones perhaps?), get a copy of Roadcraft and read it. Then read it again. Ride your bike and then read it again. It will make you both quicker and safer......a real win:win situation :thumbsup:
I think he means a dual curriageway with a turning that comes across the central reservation, so somebody is on your right waiting to pull out.
Ah... my bad.
Treat it like any other junction and expect the vehicle to pull out. Ask yourself what you will do if it does and ask yourself if you have an "out"
philipMac
14-07-06, 03:06 PM
Ok.
First off, I did the same thing. Got hit, rolled down the Rock Road (busy dublin road) into oncoming traffic.
Then I did it again, barely missed a bus this time. Would have probably bought it if I actually connected.
So, I cant say anything, or judge or whatever.
But, having seen a biker plowed into the back of a car recently, (that wasnt me), having seen the whole incident, from a cage point of view,I have seriously taken stock of speeding and this sort of stuff.
I still speed, but, its on empty country roads.
When I do those over take manouvores you were talking about, I take things much more handily. As a cage its incredablly difficult to pick bikers who are doing 50+ mph faster than you are. It really is.
I know the speed feels normal, and safe, but, for everyone else, it makes you really hard to see.
rpwoodman
14-07-06, 03:09 PM
I had 3 near misses on the way to work yesterday (which is more than I've had in total over the the last 5 years), and I'd consider none of them to be my fault.
I didn't really feel like riding in today because of it.
Sometimes a near miss could be considered a good thing I guess - makes you consider things a lot more carefully. Good to hear that you had a near miss than reporting that you had an off tho, look at it like that.
Rgds
It was Ben Elton who more correctly described them as "near hits" :lol:
Yeah - you do learn from them, which is why it tends to be the younger biker watching his/her P & J sliding down the road.......
.....sometimes I'm glad I'm old :wink:
philipMac
14-07-06, 03:17 PM
^^^Exactly... this is the thing.
After that incident I mentioned above, I have ridden the bike twice.
It really really freaked me out.
Also, who cares whose fault it is, when you are all splattered on some *******s SUV and the road. Because, who evers fault it is, you are paying a very heavy price.
Ride like everyone is out to get you. And are stupid.
Bluepete
14-07-06, 03:42 PM
Ride like everyone is out to get you. And are stupid.
:thumright:
This is the only way. It's called defensive driving. May have been mentioned before, but basically, make NO assumptions about anyone and their skill level or attention span. Read roadcraft, it can't make you a worse rider, you won't have to admit to having read it and it just may save you one day.
Read roadcraft, it can't make you a worse rider, you won't have to admit to having read it........
I've read and am proud to admit it.
Keep it on the bedside table and dip into it occasionally :thumbsup:
....... and it just may save you one day.
Already has done.
It's a good investment at about £12 or so. Mine was given to me on a Bikesafe weekend as part of the deal.
Red ones
14-07-06, 05:10 PM
OK first one yesterday on the way home from Work
There I am passing a slow moving line of traffic at a speed considerably higher than theirs (about 50 mph faster in fact) when some twassock pulls out of the line right in front of me. How on earth did I miss that car?
2nd one this morning.
I join the A12 off the Slip road I'm stuck behind a lorry doing 65mph. So I pull out round him when some twassock who is passing the line of traffic at a speed considerably higher than that of the line damn near hits me.
Second one could have been a fatality, no doubt!
Fortunatley I managed to prevent both accidents by my immense skill.
OK it's not quite what was written, but it looks similar to me!
philipMac
14-07-06, 05:27 PM
harsh... I mean, we all do stupid things. Me especially whenＩｗas younger. I was lucky. and hopfully will stay being lucky.
We just have to try to stop doing stupic things.
Seeing some biker driving along grand, and then splattered all over the shop a secong later is good as a wake up call. Very very very memorable images and noises.
harsh... I mean, we all do stupid things. Me especially whenＩｗas younger. I was lucky. and hopfully will stay being lucky.
We just have to try to stop doing stupic things.
Seeing some biker driving along grand, and then splattered all over the shop a secong later is good as a wake up call. Very very very memorable images and noises.
Yep we do. Though imho its better some bluntness from those of us whove learnt the hard way and been lucky to perhaps instil a question in someones mind of whether its a good idea to be 50mph+ above surrounding traffic or to perhaps stop and think if they have really anticipated just about every possibly stupid manouver surrounding vehicles can do, or every possible hazzard.
If it slows someone down and that buys them time to avoid hazzards then great.
Ive said it before but to put it in ultrablunt terms:
70 mph is 100 ft per second roughly. In that split second you have travelled 100 ft. Thats a very long way in a short time to spot any junctions and approaching hazzards and be able to react quick enough and then be able to stop. [what is the stopping distance for a bike at 70?? Is it the same as a car??] Bearing in mind a driver could look for a split second when you could be 110 feet away and go to manouver when suddenly you are 10 feet away.
Personally, I always ride with several things in mind.
1. Can I stop if something happens. If no, then Im too close or too fast and I adjust riding accordingly.
2. Can I see far enough ahead to anticipate things. If no, then I slow down.
3. Have I anticipated everything that can possibly go wrong? I then run through scenarios, are there junctions, are there hazzards I cant see, etc etc
4. If Ive anticipated most things, do I have an escape route if it happens. eg if a car veers out to the right, do I go round it or to the left of it. And when youre planning decide in advance - that will help in those split seconds when you have to take evasive action.
5. Have I got complacent? Riding the same roads frequently can make you forget to add things into your risk assessment. If I feel I am, I slow down before something happens. This is the one I frequently fail on though - roads you know well it does happen.
6. Is my speed appropriate? If not, I slow down.
The above goes someway to why I was at the back with Ed on AR06. I simply enjoy being on the bike and dont really feel the need for speed. I speed where I am comfortable with it now - open roads which I know very very well and have a pretty shrewd idea of hazzards on the road [with a check on number 5 going on as thats my main failing on roads I know very well :oops: ]
philipMac
14-07-06, 06:29 PM
... thing is, essentially, my point is I dont want people plowing into cars.
Red ones had posted up the bad cop post.
I attempted to post the good cop post up after.
Me posting up "harsh", followed by saying the exact same thing as everyone else says, ie, slow down a bit, might work.
Might not.
Having washed person and bits of bike of the back of a car makes me not picky about how the message gets across, as long as it dos.
For reflection. This guy was not hanging about but equally he wasnt really anticipating everything that could happen especially that he could be in someones blind spot. If you look at the video, the car was indicating and was pulling out as he was committed to going past but going too fast to react to it.
Probably not dial up friendly though.
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=video&file=wipeout.wmv
fizzwheel
14-07-06, 07:58 PM
Lots and lots of good advice in this thread. 8)
Where does one purchae a copy of "Road Craft" sounds like its worth reading.
Carsick
14-07-06, 08:04 PM
I found a copy in waterstones but it was cheaper on amazon.
here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/011341143X/202-1234806-2073412?v=glance&n=266239&s=gateway&v=glance)
fizzwheel
14-07-06, 08:06 PM
OK cool thank you.
i got mine off amazon, read it before my test but gonna read it again soon, keep getting tense while riding for some reason :?
Red ones
14-07-06, 09:15 PM
I found a copy in waterstones but it was cheaper on amazon.
here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/011341143X/202-1234806-2073412?v=glance&n=266239&s=gateway&v=glance)
It is the same price from WHSmith (http://www.whsmith.co.uk/WHS/Go.asp?isbn=011341143X&DB=220&Menu=Books), only if you order it on line for delivery to your local store you do not pay postage!
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