View Full Version : Jensen Button, part 7: "The final, final showdown"
Anonymous
16-07-06, 08:56 AM
Although I follow all sports to some extent, I've pretty much given up on F1 these days - it is so artificial! Even so, I am getting quite excited at the prospects of yet another Jensen Button battle.
First we had: "I don't want to stay at Honda, I want to join Williams", followed a year later by "I don't want to join Williams, I want to stay at Honda". It's getting like the Rambo movies :lol:. I wonder what he wants now (espec as Rosberg and Webber blow him away)?
What he NEEDS is a smack in the face with a six pound haddock. The man - correction: child - is an overpaid moaning tosser who can't race....the Max Biaggi of F1.
Peter Henry
16-07-06, 11:40 AM
Mr.Willy I think you do Max very badly with this comparison. :?
Interesting that perhaps the only driver with a little personality and cojones to speek his mind has had enough of F1. Yeah Montoya is away to play in Nascar.
Button for me is a joke, :wink:
Although I follow all sports to some extent, I've pretty much given up on F1 these days - it is so artificial!
I haven't watched F1 for a while, but I happened to catch most of today's race. I just have one question......................Why do people pay good money to go and watch a boring procession of cars round a track? Very little over-taking..............if any..................and often the race decided on who has the best fuel strategy. What a load of cr*p.
Compare that to the fabulous, nail-biting, down to the wire MotoGP which was on just before, and it's like comparing a ten course banquet to a slice of dry bread!
Peter Henry
16-07-06, 06:20 PM
F1 just have no idea how to create a spectacle to be honest. I cannot understand how the droves of fans turn up week after week when most action takes place in the pit lane and the majority of track side fans would miss that!
They really should encourage some way of making the sport more competitive. Then it would really be a matter of the top drivers coming out on top and not those with the best technology available to them.
Technology plays it's part of course in Moto GP but not I suggest to the detriment of the sport. This season for example has been the most competitive for some years. :wink:
trickywoos
16-07-06, 08:30 PM
F1 just have no idea how to create a spectacle to be honest. I cannot understand how the droves of fans turn up week after week when most action takes place in the pit lane and the majority of track side fans would miss that!
Same as the world cup- sponsors free tickets. You wouldn't believe how many of us filled up one of the grandstands at Silverstone!!!
But I love F1, yup it's dull as watching paint dry at the moment, but just to hear them is amazing.....would still recommend going to Goodwood to see them tho!!
Compare that to the fabulous, nail-biting, down to the wire MotoGP which was on just before, and it's like comparing a ten course banquet to a slice of dry bread!
I think there was a snide remark on Eurosport...something like "Beat that Magny Cours" :lol:
Peter Henry
16-07-06, 09:32 PM
Ah yes I can agree they do have sexy sounds. But I would rather pay for a CD than go along to watch a race. :P
rpwoodman
17-07-06, 11:33 AM
Years ago I went to see a F! race, but it was rubbish! YOu had no idea of who was winning, and you only realised someone had crashed when you realised you'd not seen them for 20 mins.
I think most tracks are better now, in that they have big screens etc, but it's turned into a very dull sport.
I don't see how anyone other than Bernie Ecclestone makes any money out of it.
I went car racing this weekend(The shame of it) But i did get to see the original Mario Andretti '78 championship winning Lotus 79 (no 3 of 5) yep the best looking F1 car ever! it was amazing to see how basic it was just 1 switch on the steering wheel on and off!! at least then it was usually the most talented driver that won, not the best car/ race strategy/fuel load.
Al through having the genius that was Colin Chapman in your pit helped a bit
chris
I went car racing this weekend(The shame of it) But i did get to see the original Mario Andretti '78 championship winning Lotus 79 (no 3 of 5) yep the best looking F1 car ever! it was amazing to see how basic it was just 1 switch on the steering wheel on and off!! at least then it was usually the most talented driver that won, not the best car/ race strategy/fuel load.
Nice sentiments, but seriously bad example!
As big a fan of Mario as I was, it has to be said that the 79 was the first successful ground effect F1 car which took aerodynamics to a whole new level. Added to that, restrictive practices in No. 2 driver contracts weren't invented by Ferrari in recent years - Ronnie Peterson, probably the fastest driver of his generation, was grateful for the work and happy to follow team orders before paying the ultimate price in that same season and never achieving the championship he was more than capable of.
carelesschucca
17-07-06, 11:14 PM
Best thing they could go to F1 would be ban the wings, less need to stay back cause the airflow gets disrupted, and make the race shorter with no pitstops...
No actually the best thing they could do with F1 would be put Bernie Ecclstone in front of the grid and let the drivers run him over, I'd pay to watch that little cretin get splattered all over the track...
Back in the 80s/90s I watched about 10 British GPs on the circuit in a row plus everytthing on the TV. That was back in the days of proper racers Mansell(the winger), Senna(genius) and Prost(er French)
Now, I probably struggle to see 30 mins through the complete year
ITS BORING!!!!!
It would be nice if ther spent some of Bernies Billions to redsign the tracks specifically to encourage overtaking. PLUS random oil/water sprays on some of the key bends, might just make it a bit more interesting
Rant Over :oops:
How about every now and again, in a random fashion, they made the grid line up in reverse qualifying order......slowest at the front?
Not every race of course, to keep the drivers/teams honest, but just a few races per season and don't tell the drivers until after the qualifying.
The Basket
18-07-06, 12:12 PM
The man - correction: child - is an overpaid moaning t*sser who can't race....the Max Biaggi of F1.
Mr Biaggi is not Jenson Button.
He was a world champion and also a contender in the toughest class in all track racing.
He may have been overpaid or moaned or a t*sser but on his day, the man could race.
What is a Jenson Button anyway? Sounds rude.
TVR_Tracy
18-07-06, 12:14 PM
How about every now and again, in a random fashion, they made the grid line up in reverse qualifying order......slowest at the front?
Genius :lol: ...
F1 is soooo *yawn*...
Tbh, I'd rather watch milk float racing...
F1, been getting worse and worse... Dipped and now is back on the up I think.
Everyone hated F1 due to the dominance of MS, but now its a bit more open, its closer (most lead cars are still on the same lap). THe only interesting parts is the start - 1st/2nd set of pit stops, and the last few laps (unless the leader is already obvious).
Funny thing is, i've got a quite well of guy at work. No interest in motorsport but he enjoys watching the GP.....
He's not long ago started here, and already is hooked on MotoGP. His first race to watch was the one with Melandri doign acrobatics a few weeks back. He's hooked. He couldn't believe the skill of Rossi...
MotoGP is SO much better to watch than F1. Its closer, you can see who's catching who (opposed to being 20+ seconds apart), and you know that by the end of the race, the results are 90% sure to be totally different :lol:
I went car racing this weekend(The shame of it) But i did get to see the original Mario Andretti '78 championship winning Lotus 79 (no 3 of 5) yep the best looking F1 car ever! it was amazing to see how basic it was just 1 switch on the steering wheel on and off!! at least then it was usually the most talented driver that won, not the best car/ race strategy/fuel load.
Nice sentiments, but seriously bad example!
As big a fan of Mario as I was, it has to be said that the 79 was the first successful ground effect F1 car which took aerodynamics to a whole new level. Added to that, restrictive practices in No. 2 driver contracts weren't invented by Ferrari in recent years - Ronnie Peterson, probably the fastest driver of his generation, was grateful for the work and happy to follow team orders before paying the ultimate price in that same season and never achieving the championship he was more than capable of.
Yes, that probabily wasn't the best year to quote. It was a shame that Ronnie didn't get the no1 drive he deserved. IIRC he was due to be no1 at Mclaren the next year.
chris
Keep your eye out for the other British Driver due into F1 next year, possibly with McLaren (as they've sponsered him since he was young)... He drives in the F2 series.
Can't remember his name, but currently opening serious whoop ass cans on the other F2 drivers... Been watching him every so often and his driving skills seem up there (i.e knowledge on how to race).
wheelnut
19-07-06, 10:02 AM
Jenson Button is a was been, like a has been but never was :P
F1 is Booooring, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :D
Marshall
19-07-06, 10:07 AM
Keep your eye out for the other British Driver due into F1 next year, possibly with McLaren (as they've sponsered him since he was young)... He drives in the F2 series.
Can't remember his name, but currently opening serious whoop ass cans on the other F2 drivers... Been watching him every so often and his driving skills seem up there (i.e knowledge on how to race).
LOL i think you mean GP2
and the kick ass British driver who is leading the series is called Lewis Hamilton
i belive he is 14 points ahead with 4 races to go
HTH
A1, F1 GP2, so many classes ha ha.,... He's still a good driver, one to watch.... Cheers 8)
fizzwheel
19-07-06, 04:18 PM
Al through having the genius that was Colin Chapman in your pit helped a bit
Erh just a tad.
Lotus 25 - First Monoque F1 car
Lotus 49 - First car to use the engine as a stressed chassis member ( Ford DFV )
Lotus 79 - First car to fully exploit ground effect properly.
BRM developed ground effect in the 60's IIRC but they fired their designed Peter Warr IIRC who went to lotus.
Lotus also developed Active ride.
Filipe M.
19-07-06, 04:21 PM
Lotus also developed Active ride.
And what might that be? A system that actually has an active driver? :lol:
fizzwheel
19-07-06, 04:25 PM
Best thing they could go to F1 would be ban the wings, less need to stay back cause the airflow gets disrupted, and make the race shorter with no pitstops...
Dont quite agree about the pitstops. They should ban refuelling but allow tyre changes.
Agreed but its not enough. Also they need to
Ban Electronic Driver Aids. everything all of it.
Bring back big slick tyres.
Allow the engine to produce more power than the chassis can take. Also have the equivalency what no so you could run a turbo and bring back the flame spitting spectacle of the turbo era.
Manual Gear change.
Maybe ban carbon brakes to.
However I still reckon that Schumacher, Alonso, Raikonen would be at the front. Personally I think they are still the best drivers.
I dont care if it means we dont get new technology on our roads cars. Or that F1 is supposed to be the pinncale of Motorsport technology wise.
I want to see close racing and cars sliding around on the limit and driver skill being the most important thing.
I think its sad that so much electronics is coming into Moto GP. I can see it going the way of F1 if they dont do something about it.
carelesschucca
19-07-06, 04:33 PM
I think its sad that so much electronics is coming into Moto GP. I can see it going the way of F1 if they dont do something about it.
Sad to say its the way with everything, its too hard to police...
Prime example of electrical trickery in bikes that couldn't be proved in recent years was Troy bayliss' Ducati at Silverstone in the wet (WSB). The bikes were supposed to cut out when they landed on their sides (for safety reasons) and he crashed twice, and the bike kept going...
Honda put a complaint in and when they checked the bike in the pit lane it strangely cut out every time they put it on its side... But not when he was racing HMMMMMMMMM!!!
duffbattye
19-07-06, 05:10 PM
I saw a grand prix a while back - silverstone. It was awful - I saw no overtaking in the whole race. I didn't have a clue who was winning or not. The crowd was pretty unfriendly and sooo quiet - none of the warmth of a bike meet.
It's also so overpriced
Even club bike racing is a better day out and far more exciting to watch
duff
Anonymous
19-07-06, 05:32 PM
BRM developed ground effect in the 60's IIRC but they fired their designed Peter Warr IIRC who went to lotus.
Err....I think Tony Rudd was the Chief Engineer who left BRM to go to Lotus. Peter Warr might have come from BRM but was never (AFAIR) Lotus's Design Chief - he was Chunky's Team Manager - more so after said owner took less and less direct interest following the Lotus 88 affair. The real quiet design genius at Lotus was Maurice Phillippe who took Chunky's concepts and made them real. A clever guy.
But then, I've probably got that all wrong!!!
fizzwheel
19-07-06, 05:34 PM
But then, I've probably got that all wrong!!!
I suspect its probaly me thats wrong. I always get those two mixed up.
fizzwheel
19-07-06, 05:39 PM
had a quick google. Turned up this.
http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-11720.html
Gazza77
19-07-06, 08:30 PM
Best idea to encourage overtaking would be to make all pitstops a compulsory 30 seconds long (stationary). That would mean no advantage gained trying to be clever on fuel strategy and consequently mean the only way to get past the car in front would be to drive faster!
fizzwheel
19-07-06, 08:35 PM
Best idea to encourage overtaking would be to make all pitstops a compulsory 30 seconds long (stationary). That would mean no advantage gained trying to be clever on fuel strategy and consequently mean the only way to get past the car in front would be to drive faster!
I like the pitstops I like the drama of dashing in watching the mechanics f*ck something up as the occasionally do and then watching the utter chaos as they try and sort it out.
IMHO it would be better to make the cars start with a full tank of fuel that must last them till the end of the race without refueling. That way it would remove all the rubbish about fuel strategy completely. But still allow pit stops for tyres. How dull was last year watching them refuel and fiddle with tyre pressures.
Anonymous
19-07-06, 08:57 PM
I fear MotoGP will go the same way....
The budgets are now so huge - with sponsors tossing in zillions - that designers can get cleverer and cleverer, spending more and more, all to make cars (and bikes too) do almost impossible things. Then the rule makers step in and impose restriction upon restriction which means cars look more and more the same, with no-one having a clear advantage technically. Going back to the "good old days" of F1, you had sucker cars, gas turbines, front biplane wings, hydraulic ride height, six-wheelers, disposable water ballast......but it's all gone now. And to try to get some drama back, they place restrictions on how many tyres can be used, make engines last two race meetings.....big deal!
For me, F1 needs to allow innovation to burst forth - so IMHO it's 1600cc diesel engines, blown or unblown, five speeds only, but any fuel, any aero aids, any tyres, any weight..... any number of wheels.....(we've had six-wheelers but it would be nice to see a three wheel F1!!)
And for bikes, it's 650cc, any cycle (ie 2 or 4), any fuel, turbo/supercharged, but five speeds only....and that's it!
carelesschucca
19-07-06, 10:30 PM
1600cc diesel engines, but any fuel
Would the fuel not be Diesel???
Anonymous
20-07-06, 07:53 AM
What we call "diesel" is just one type of fractionated oil. There are loads of other fuels and aromatics that will self ignite if you squeeze them hard enough - that was Mr Diesel's big idea. Similarly you don't need petrol to run a spark ignition engine - you can run them on methanol, ethanol, propane, butane, cow fart.....
I think Indy cars are now running a methanol-ethanol mix rather than we call petrol.
Indycars, ahhhhh beasts!!!!!!
Went to see them the 1st year they went to Rockingham from the USA........ Now i've seen most motor racing (bar MotoGP dammit :evil:
), F1, trucks, carts, the lot, but indycars are something else.......
Watching them take a corner at 200mph and peaking at about 240 down the straights, WITH overtaking as they can draft, well, it wasn't massivly exciting, and earplugs were needed, but man did they shift......
Old man went to F1 a few years back at Silverstone, just like the other comment, it was like watching a procession of cars go round and round and round and round.... Nothing exciting, just noisy....
I'd go see Indycars over F1 still..........
greshaki
21-07-06, 03:23 AM
Here is what I think about F1. The FIA has been taking wing off the cars, because this will slow them down (less downforce). But the more wing gets taken off, the more the teams are making dowforce by shaping the body into curvy, wavy winglets and diffusers. This is why F1 has become really boring this year, the cars are way too dependent on still air going across the body. They cannot overtake
I have two model cars on my desk in front of me here. Kimi's car from last year and Mika's car from 2000. Mika's car looks like a flat plank compared to Kimi's. GIVE THEM BACK THEIR FRONT AND REAR WINGS. They'll be able to get a decent tow, like they could a few years back. Figure out other exciting ways to slow the cars down, and switch to a control tyre (we're kind of getting that next year..sorta)
I kind of get that everyones frustrated about jensen this year but you cannot say he's a bad driver, none of us know that. All we can say is the car he has right now is slow. When was he quick? 04? That year he had a good car, and Id say he used it really well, he's got a great race head on. All I can say is, watching the cool brake/throttle info that itv has at the bottom of the screen sometime is that he really finesses those peddals compared to some of the other drivers. And what about Rubens' comments at the beginning of the year? "Ive come from a car that really is point and floor it, to the honda that requires a lot of finesse and left foot braking". I'd say Jensen's an excellent driver, and we'll see for sure when he's in a good car
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