View Full Version : help needed,well advise really.........
its bit complicated but il try & keep it simple lol
a friend of mine has just had her 1st baby,yayyyyy.her bloke who aint the brightest in the world thought it would be a good idea to buy a bike & get rid of their 2nd car to save on insurance,tax & petrol & in principal i see his point,so anyway he went out & bought a 2006 aprillia rs125 on finance (without telling my mate until he had done the deal) main problem being he hasnt actually past his test lol,it gets worse.....he now realises it wasnt such a great idea !!!! so now they are stuck wiv it & paying for it & its not gona get used sooooooooo anyway they wana sell it for as near as much as he paid for it £3200 but obviously realise they gona have to take less for it so does any1 know any1 who wants to buy 1 ????? (im seeing her wednesday so can get pictures of the bike & full details but belive its got only delivery mileage on it ?)
now here comes the slight hitch i really need your help with before they can sell it coz its complicated & i dont understand.the bike shop he bought it from says he cant have the log book even though he has bought it because he hasnt insured it yet ???? aparently they say he has to ???? is this right ??? i dont remember anything like that when i bought my bike new ??? they are struggling abit financially & wana avoid the extra expense of insurance if possible,the DVLA has told my mate to take it up with the bike shop & wernt very helpfull,so can any1 offer any assistance with the log book problem & any1 interseted in a 2006 rs125 ?
thanks in advance for ant help offered
jay (essex lounge)
fraser01
17-07-06, 11:59 PM
Problem being is that it is still on finance...your friend still owes the finance company and whatever your friend sells it at is going to be a loss, he/she is still gonna have to provide the difference to settle the outstanding amount...legally you need the log book/V5 to sell it also, the only time they would keep the logbook V5 is if the finance is on the bike...they own it until you pay the outstanding finance..
For all the hassles, the potential new buyer would want it at bargin price and i expect your friend does not have the finances to settle it. Its a hard lesson to learn, but he is more than likely gonna have to try and get the garage to buy it back...if he has only just got it surely there must be something written into the finance.??
...sorry fella.
tigersaw
18-07-06, 12:02 AM
I believe thats the case, I've bought a couple of new bikes in the last year and I had to show insurance for both before I took them away.
Could he not just explain all to the shop, ask them to take it back - he'd have to take a loss, but it may be no different to selling the bike.
No matter how you look at it, he will be selling a second hand bike, but if the shop havn't issued the logbook yet, they could maybe sell it as a pre registered.
21QUEST
18-07-06, 01:48 AM
I'm sure someone that knows better will be along in a moment but don't you have a cooling off period(?) with finance deals. Normally 14 days or so.
That being the case then he needs write(rigistered post) to the finace company before the cooling off period is over stating that he no longer wishes to carry on. At worst he loses his deposit :smt102 .
I know not the ethical thing to do(if comes to that) but there is the baby to think about .
Cheers
Ben
EDIT: Just read it again. A bit confused as to how/why they have the bike at their house and the dealer still has the log book :? .
It's normal practice to have relevant papers such as insurance with you before the bike is released(and maybe to even complete the finance :?: ). If that wasn't available in this case why did the dealer release he bike then.
Sorry not much help but just tossing stuff into the mix before someone in the know arrives :lol:
Just read it again. A bit confused as to how/why they have the bike at their house and the dealer still has the log book :? .
It's normal practice to have relevant papers such as insurance with you before the bike is released(and maybe to even complete the finance :?: ). If that wasn't available in this case why did the dealer release he bike then.
I bought the K6 SV650S on finance before I'd actually passed my DAS test (spent a long time riding around with a CBT, so I was pretty confident - and did pass 1st time as it happens). When I bought it I told the dealership I didn't have a licence to ride it & said that I didn't care if they kept the bike at the shop until I'd passed. They umm'd and arr'd (technical term) a little, and said they would release the bike to me, but wouldn't put the tax disc holder or number plate on, and wouldn't release paperwork to me. None of this really bothered me (living in an area with VERY quiet back roads...less said the better :D ).
If I remember rightly from my time in retail, the FSA (Financial Standards Authority) have guidelines (not legislation) which state that you have a cooling off period of 14 days from receipt of goods. I think the dealer knew this as well, which is why he released the bike to me. Well, that and so he could squeeze one more bike into his already packed out shop (understandable). That way, the 14 days started ticking away & I wasn't actually riding (legally anyway).
The good news though is that in my case, he didn't do the warranty paperwork until I'd passed my test & showed him insurance documents either. So whilst I was loosing my cooling off period, I wasn't actually using my warranty period.
I know this probably doesn't help much jaymz, but I was in a similar(ish) situation & figured I'd share my experience.
(I did actually have an issue with the bike while I was out on it, told a little white lie & he picked the bike up, sorted it under warranty - which wasn't active - and charged me £40 for dropping the bike back at my house. The ECU can't lie though, so he knew exactly what I'd been up to)
21QUEST
18-07-06, 10:45 AM
Just read it again. A bit confused as to how/why they have the bike at their house and the dealer still has the log book :? .
It's normal practice to have relevant papers such as insurance with you before the bike is released(and maybe to even complete the finance :?: ). If that wasn't available in this case why did the dealer release he bike then.
I bought the K6 SV650S on finance before I'd actually passed my DAS test (spent a long time riding around with a CBT, so I was pretty confident - and did pass 1st time as it happens). When I bought it I told the dealership I didn't have a licence to ride it & said that I didn't care if they kept the bike at the shop until I'd passed. They umm'd and arr'd (technical term) a little, and said they would release the bike to me, but wouldn't put the tax disc holder or number plate on, and wouldn't release paperwork to me. None of this really bothered me (living in an area with VERY quiet back roads...less said the better :D ).
If I remember rightly from my time in retail, the FSA (Financial Standards Authority) have guidelines (not legislation) which state that you have a cooling off period of 14 days from receipt of goods. I think the dealer knew this as well, which is why he released the bike to me. Well, that and so he could squeeze one more bike into his already packed out shop (understandable). That way, the 14 days started ticking away & I wasn't actually riding (legally anyway).
The good news though is that in my case, he didn't do the warranty paperwork until I'd passed my test & showed him insurance documents either. So whilst I was loosing my cooling off period, I wasn't actually using my warranty period.
I know this probably doesn't help much jaymz, but I was in a similar(ish) situation & figured I'd share my experience.
(I did actually have an issue with the bike while I was out on it, told a little white lie & he picked the bike up, sorted it under warranty - which wasn't active - and charged me £40 for dropping the bike back at my house. The ECU can't lie though, so he knew exactly what I'd been up to)
Thanks for clearing that up Baph :thumbsup: .
Cheers
Ben
Just adding that when I got SV the other week they wouldnt release the bike without insurance due to no tax... if i had bothered them they may off but there was no point.
I just joined the legions of ppl taking advantage of the 0% finance on SV's. Im fairly inquisitive, and read all the paperwork relating to the finance etc. And a number of relevant points spring to mind. Most finance firms wont provide finance for a road bike unless it's insured at the time of purchase. So without insuring the bike, you couldnt ever have entered into a credit agreement with them, so it would almost be a non-issue.
Along the same lines, this implies the dealer let the bike leave the showroom without having recieved money from the finance company to cover it.
Regarding cooling off, yes you almost certainly have 14 days to cancel the CREDIT agreement, but that doesnt in itself cancel the BIKE purchase, so he'll still have to buy the bike, just without finance. Im assuming the bike came from a showroom and he's signed the relvanct handover documents, so isnt protected by distance selling or anything similar.
I think to offer advice we probably need more info, but regarding the logbook, if they've issued the bike and registered it, they have no business holding the logbook, but i think they shouldnt have ever let you take the bike/finance without insurance and are (possibly) trying to cover themselves by holding the logbook. Speak to the Citizens Advice Beaureau, and read every bit of small print on the fincnace contract and any paperwork he has from the dealer.
The finance company used with me (I was figuring it was all the same for the Suzuki deal) was Black Horse & I have a habit of reading small print before I sign. I made the dealer sit there in his office a good 30mins.
My finance deal doesn't say anything about insurance to own the vehicle. However, it does state something along the lines of "it's the operators responsibility to ensure all applicable laws are complied with" (which implies I can own it, but not ride it without insurance).
The point about cancelling the credit agreement. That's true enough, but when applied to the real world has some consequences. If you cancel a credit agreement, the dealership basically has their money taken away. Taken to an extreme, the dealer could demand you pay the value, but then, you could equally refuse, and offer for them to take the bike back (obviously suffering any negotiated losses). Worst case, they wouldn't take the bike back (for whatever stated reason) and would pursue court action. I've not been to court much, but all I think would happen is the bike would be handed back to the dealer, and the purchasor would have to suffer depreciation value (original sale value minus what the dealer can still sell the bike for - you'd be liable for) plus any legal costs.
Out of interest whilst we're talking about paperwork. Has anyone read the warranty documents closely for the K6? I know mine certainly doesn't go anywhere near "if you do/dont do [whatever] then your warranty is void" (with the exception of using genuine suzuki parts). I would assume this means I can let any spanner monkey 'feck' my bike up (that'd be me then!) and so long as he uses genuine suzuki parts (and I keep the receipts), I can still get work done under the warranty. I kind of like the thought of that.
Hmm, your documents must ahve been very different from mine then Baph, im at work now but ill dig them out when im home, because mine were very specific about the bike being insuired for the agreement to go through, and to remain insured for the duration of the contract. And yeah, was black horse finance, and like you i read these things several times before signing.
Regarding the courts, as you say it could go a number of ways but if i was the dealer and had my money "taken away" as you put it, i would be taking the customer to small claims court for the full value of the motorbike he signed to buy, any deal on returning the motorbike would fall outside of that. Buying something then realising you dont want it gives you no legal rights whatsoever, and if the dealer says "i dont want YOUR bike, instead of my money", its not exaclty within the scope of the courts powers to force the dealer to accept the bike instead of cash. Best-case the customer might be able to plead that they genuinely cant afford it, and the dealer has to settle for weekly/monthly payments, and the court demand the bike be sold privately (possibly to the dealer?) to cover some of the cost.
The warranty as you say is pretty encouraging, only disclaimers about "normal wear and tear" etc, spanner monkeys seem to be covered.
Taken to an extreme, the dealer could demand you pay the value, but then, you could equally refuse...
On what grounds?
Taken to an extreme, the dealer could demand you pay the value, but then, you could equally refuse...
On what grounds?
On the grounds you can't afford it, obviously. They don't have the right (without a court order) to force you to pay after a canceled credit agreement. So long obviously as you've also stated you're not prepared to pay them for the bike, but you are willing to give the bike back.
If you want justification of this, a friend of mine was told several years ago that she'd been overpaid Tax Credits to the tune of approx £3k, and that she had to pay it back. She was on benefits at the time, and a single parent. She refused (who would have a spare 3k in that situation?), and they threatened her with court etc. She kept refusing, and eventually, they stopped asking, without taking her to court (granted, in her case, the tax payers would of bared the legal costs etc because she was on benefit). Incidentally, at no point in all of this did her income go down, Tax Credits ceased obviously, but benefit's increased to make up for the short fall.
End of the day, I reckon most businesses (not just bike dealers) would welcome the bike back & a couple of hundred reddies, for the sake of not having to go to court over an issue.
Anyway, all this is starting to get a little :offtopic:
Are you sure its the V5 log book thats missing? Easy option is to sign up for insurance on the basis you can cancel it the next day - check it out. You maybe charged an admin fee. They may even get away with a cover note on it. No doubt they will loose a few hundred pounds off it but they are every teenagers wet dream so it should sell easily.
Are you sure its the V5 log book thats missing? Easy option is to sign up for insurance on the basis you can cancel it the next day - check it out. You maybe charged an admin fee. They may even get away with a cover note on it. No doubt they will loose a few hundred pounds off it but they are every teenagers wet dream so it should sell easily.
Devitt are worderful for doing this. A while back I started a policy on a lemon (err, I mean CG125) I bought. Two days of running it & the thing decided it wanted to cease up (unusual for a CG I know). Devitt hold the FSA guidelines as their bible. When I called to cancel, their response was "You're within the 14day cooling off period, so that's no problem, I'll cancel it now, but you might have to pay administration charges. Just send us a written notice of cancelation & we'll send a cheque back." I was more happy about that than I was the CG, put it that way.
They sent me a letter to confirm what had been said on the phone, and a few days later the cheque arrived. 100% of the premium had been returned to me. Bonus.
If Devitt could offer a competative quote for the SV insurance, I'd be with them for their service.
hey lots of info there,cheers every1 :D
will be speaking to my mate & her dippy bloke today (wednesday) & i think the idea of asking the bike shop to take it back is probably the best idea ? they will obviously say its worth less even though it hasnt been ridden since they delivered it but i guess having to find a few hundread pounds to settle the finance is better than paying for the whole bike.
still sounds strange that it wasnt taxed & insured & the bike shop released the bike knowing this & then withheld the V5 log book ??
thanks once again for everyones input & if i need anymore help on the subject il be bak to pick ur brains :lol:
jay
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