View Full Version : What is this country coming too??
Alton towers being hired out for a Muslim only day, Surely if this was done by "whites only" it'd be classed as racism?
Discuss.
And no i'm not racist i just think its political correctness gone stupid.
I agree with you.
Would love to know what Akbar thinks about it :roll:
Dont even get me started on this one.... :smt093 :smt013
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 12:43 PM
Cuffy...chill bro! For all you know there might be a Protestants only day in the pipeline or even a Roman Catholic one? Jews could have their own but weekends would be out! :wink:
Aw come on it doesn't matter that much surely? :?
TVR_Tracy
20-07-06, 12:45 PM
Dont even get me started on this one.... :smt093 :smt013
Ditto...
Its the one thing that will REALLY get me on my soap box and I wont come off it until Im dragged off! God it winds me up.
Now, about this whipping malarky...... :wink:
Oh FFS people, put your pitchforks away. :roll:
Alton Towers is run by a private company and hires out to various groups throughout the year. Yet you dont get riled by those events, only by the fact that on this occasion it happens to be a Muslim organised thing.
Take your discrimanatory views elsewhere please. :evil:
TVR_Tracy
20-07-06, 12:47 PM
Its the one thing that will REALLY get me on my soap box and I wont come off it until Im dragged off! God it winds me up.
Speaker's corner for you Mr Mark. (It's in hyde park for those that aren't familiar LOL)...
Oh FFS people, put your pitchforks away. :roll:
Alton Towers is run by a private company and hires out to various groups throughout the year. Yet you dont get riled by those events, only by the fact that it happens to be a Muslim organised thing.
Take your discrimanatory views elsewhere please. :evil:
Just out of interest and for my own education, what other groups hire Alton Towers, be they religious or not?
Anonymous
20-07-06, 12:49 PM
Could be a sight tho, all the women in their ninja outfits...
Kewl! Kawaski riders eh? Like that captin Nemmo prhaps. Is he a muslin?
Oh FFS people, put your pitchforks away. :roll:
Alton Towers is run by a private company and hires out to various groups throughout the year. Yet you dont get riled by those events, only by the fact that it happens to be a Muslim organised thing.
Take your discrimanatory views elsewhere please. :evil:
Just out of interest and for my own education, what other groups hire Alton Towers, be they religious or not?
Just digging it out of the 20 page thread on this from visordown. :D
Start with their corporate page:
http://www.alton-towers.co.uk/corporate/parkevents.asp effectively meaning that the park is for hire by any corporation.
Ive been informed by someone whos been they have gay only days - trying to find that on the site now. But no doubt that would be wrong too with you lot. :roll:
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 12:52 PM
For Muslim ladies is there not certain issues regarding their faces being seen by those not of their faith? Perhaps then a Muslim only day allows the ladies to do away with veils and enjoy themselves just like the rest of us would when enjoying the rides etc?
I have no idea if my comments are correct or not though. :?
Its the one thing that will REALLY get me on my soap box and I wont come off it until Im dragged off! God it winds me up.
Speaker's corner for you Mr Mark. (It's in hyde park for those that aren't familiar LOL)...
Probably best if I pass - my health insurance simply wouldnt cover me! :shock:
TVR_Tracy
20-07-06, 12:58 PM
Ive been informed by someone whos been they have gay only days - trying to find that on the site now. But no doubt that would be wrong too with you lot. :roll:
mmm I'd like to be a fly on the wall on that day :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
TAXI!!!
http://www.ultimateevents.org.uk/altontowers.aspx
Funny how there was no uproar over the Christian event held here. :roll:
Oh and while its ok for BT or any other corporation to book it [on their corporate site you will find Suzuki have done this, so is that discriminatory against all non-Suzuki owners too? ] its not ok for Islamic Leisure to do so.
All it means is if you want to go on that day is you buy through IL. Its not restricted to muslims only, only they have booked the place for that day.
So can we put the torches down now? :roll:
If it is a private event for private hire then there is no argument as it will be invitees only, if however it is something instigated by AT then you can rightfully get on your boxes.
For thoses of you that don't Know Tussuad's is owned by an Arab Company, one of the Shieks from Dubai bought it a year or two ago, not that I'm suggesting this has anything to do with this event.
sharriso74
20-07-06, 12:59 PM
“We’re trying to get Muslims to go to this day because they wouldn’t normally go somewhere like Alton Towers. We’re trying to integrate Muslims into the wider community. People can come down and see the way we live. It will be a peaceful family environment
So having a single faith day is intergration?
I don't believe that Alton Towers should hire the park out to ANY minority group be it Christian, Great British Bird Watching Society, Alcoholics Anonomous or Gay - I think if Alton Towers do hire the park out they should at least have the decency to do it in the closed Season.
TVR_Tracy
20-07-06, 01:02 PM
Perhaps it's cos they have special halal food on that day?
I have to agree with Cuffy, and others in saying this is ridiculous and PC gone mad. I too am not racist in any way,(I come from a multicultural family) and I think it is fair to say that it is the organisers of the day who are being disciminatory in this case. Why do they have to organise a separate event for Muslims? Or gays? Or old people or whoever? The rest of the time the park is open there is surely a complete mix of all these 'groups' of people in there anyway so why have this 'special day'? It is the organisers of things like this that highlight differences and cause divides, by implying it is necessary to have a 'X only' day for the people involved to be able to enjoy themselves.
/end rant!
BTW I haven't been to Alton Towers for years, last new ride I went on was 'Air' - anyone been on any newer rides than this and recommend going again?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/12/nwedd12.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/12/ixuknews.html
So because this so called minority group have hired the park for the day this couple have got to abide by there rules...
Complete bollox if you ask me :evil:
Also theres no music allowed, no alcohol, no gambling.
Instead there will be prayer areas, Muslim stalls and all food served will be HALAL.
Taking things a little too far to compensate thier needs imho
Ahem, as I was typing a few posts were added including the one saying that just a group of muslims was going, not a muslim exclusive day as was implied by the first post.
“We’re trying to get Muslims to go to this day because they wouldn’t normally go somewhere like Alton Towers. We’re trying to integrate Muslims into the wider community. People can come down and see the way we live. It will be a peaceful family environment
So having a single faith day is intergration?
I don't believe that Alton Towers should hire the park out to ANY minority group be it Christian, Great British Bird Watching Society, Alcoholics Anonomous or Gay - I think if Alton Towers do hire the park out they should at least have the decency to do it in the closed Season.
Well perhaps they want a muslim only day so they dont have to tolerate the kind of attitudes normally displayed to them as demonstrated in this thread.
.
I imagine they've paid out an awful lot of cash to have the park to themselves - just as someone would fork out a fortune to have exclusive use of the place for a wedding or something.
So maybe it's just capitalism! :D
That reminds me - I think I read somewhere that the place was double booked with a wedding - maybe that's caused the furore.
sharriso74
20-07-06, 01:11 PM
That would be a cool place to get married.
Imagine doing your vows on one of the rides " I doooooooooooo aaarrrgghhhhhhh"
northwind
20-07-06, 01:12 PM
Alton towers being hired out for a Muslim only day, Surely if this was done by "whites only" it'd be classed as racism?
Yes, but "muslims" doesn't equal "non white". How about if it was hired out for a Christian only event?
Oh, wait, I see Lynw's already said that. Never mind :)
Lyn, perhaps you should go with them just to show them how liberal you are.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/12/nwedd12.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/12/ixuknews.html
So because this so called minority group have hired the park for the day this couple have got to abide by there rules...
Complete bollox if you ask me :evil:
Also theres no music allowed, no alcohol, no gambling.
Instead there will be prayer areas, Muslim stalls and all food served will be HALAL.
Taking things a little too far to compensate thier needs imho
If HMRC hired the park out for its staff and you went on that day, then you would have to abide by their rules ie no dope [if you were into that sort of thing], no bootlegged ciggies or alcohol [if you had any]. Not the best example but just to make a point, that if someone hires it out and they have done so for their staff then you have to abide by their rules. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that for everyone else, but because its muslims it gives you all a chance to do a bit of muslim bashing.
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 01:19 PM
From the little I know about it, Halal food does not entirely appear to be unappetising to me? :?
From the little I know about it, Halal food does not entirely appear to be unappetising to me? :?
Nor me buddy :thumbsup:
sharriso74
20-07-06, 01:24 PM
From the little I know about it, Halal food does not entirely appear to be unappetising to me? :?
Both the Jewish and Muslim religions demand that slaughter is carried out with a single cut to the throat, rather than the more widespread method of stunning with a bolt into the head before slaughter.
Sorry if you're going to kill something to eat it, do it as quickly and as painlesly as possible
From the little I know about it, Halal food does not entirely appear to be unappetising to me? :?
Do you know how they kill the animals? It sounds like cruelty to me! I have eaten Halal before, the takeaways round Birmingham are often Halal only meat. It tastes exactly the same as normal meat though, (hang on, it is normal meat!). A muslim guy lived with my GF at uni and in their flat they used to cook for each other, whenever someone else was cooking meat he might be eating (happened quite often!) he insisted on going to get it himself, I think he thought someone else would cut a corner and get it from Tesco's!
I dont think its correct, why should non-muslims HAVE to cover up etc and follow the muslim rules if they are not muslim?
Worlds gone mad. :roll:
Im NOT racist etc BUT this is Great Britain/England, why should we have to follow their rules?? i could understand if it was the other way round but this is stupid!
How is it supposed to help different races/cultures mix and accept other cultures/beliefs? it doesnt, it just gets peoples back up!
From the little I know about it, Halal food does not entirely appear to be unappetising to me? :?
A bit on halal: http://www.aboutfood.co.uk/spotlight/halal.html
I can understand the pork restriction though - having seen pigs in India eating the contents of the toilets. :shock:
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 01:32 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/12/nwedd12.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/12/ixuknews.html
So because this so called minority group have hired the park for the day this couple have got to abide by there rules...
Complete bollox if you ask me :evil:
Also theres no music allowed, no alcohol, no gambling.
Instead there will be prayer areas, Muslim stalls and all food served will be HALAL.
Taking things a little too far to compensate thier needs imho
If HMRC hired the park out for its staff and you went on that day, then you would have to abide by their rules ie no dope , no bootlegged ciggies or alcohol [if you had any]. Not the best example but just to make a point, that if someone hires it out and they have done so for their staff then you have to abide by their rules. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that for everyone else, but because its muslims it gives you all a chance to do a bit of muslim bashing.
You've just pointed out a subtlety that makes the difference here: [i]If HMRC hired the park out for its staff
As in, it's not a public event.
From what I understand what's happening here though, it's a public event (albeit not organised by the park its self, but that isn't important) open only to a select group. That, however you dress it up, is descrimination.
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 01:35 PM
I did not pass comment as to how the animals were killed I merely passed comment on the food itself. There are those that might equally frown upon the stun gun method,I don't know?
For someone to imagine that a piece of Halal meat would magically taste different than the same cut by another name just shows ignorance of the topic in general I am afraid.
Apart from the method of executing the animals, it is more to do with the foods and other elements that are NOT used in Halal food that are perhaps more important. Plus how Halal food is not in any way allowed to come in to any kind of contact with frowned upon substances.
As mentioned I am definitely no expert on this topic but am checking a few things out before posting. :wink:
Spiderman
20-07-06, 01:44 PM
If it was booked by a Gay group and the had pink foods on sale and insisted that peeps "dress up" for the occasion i think a lot of people would find that a little amusing, wouldnt they.
no one would be saying "but why should i have to eat pink ice cream that day!" would they?
A Leisure Company has hired it out, just happens they specialise in Muslim days out and attract that type of crowd. So what? Why all the hooha?
Even the girl who had the wedding booked says "The people with Islamic Leisure want their day as much as we do. I don't blame them at all. But Alton Towers shouldn't have done this. They should at least have rung us to discuss it."
To tell other users of the park that they have to dress a certain way because of the other users is a bit much tho, imho .
snackbar
20-07-06, 01:44 PM
I agree with you.
Would love to know what Akbar thinks about it :roll:
Well, he asked me to post his thoughts for him. He thinks that anyone that is 'outraged' by the actions of having a muslim only day at a theme park really should take a long look at themselves. As has rightly been pointed out, nobody seemed to care anything when AT have done similar in the past for Christians.
And as for complaining about Halal food - aren't AT simply trying their best to cater for a group of people. Pretty good PR on tehir part. Good PR = good £.
Why not get off your low horse, and complain about something worthwhile, say, the Neo-con/zionist bombardment of civilian targets in Lebanon.
Yours lovingly,
(Sn)A(c)kbar
sharriso74
20-07-06, 01:46 PM
Getting slow in your old age 43 mins since this thread started :wink:
you're not Akbar, there were no tedious 'LOLs' in your post!
snackbar
20-07-06, 01:52 PM
you're not Akbar, there were no tedious 'LOLs' in your post!
lol
I dont think its correct, why should non-muslims HAVE to cover up etc and follow the muslim rules if they are not muslim?
Worlds gone mad. :roll:
Im NOT racist etc BUT this is Great Britain/England, why should we have to follow their rules?? i could understand if it was the other way round but this is stupid!
How is it supposed to help different races/cultures mix and accept other cultures/beliefs? it doesnt, it just gets peoples back up!
Go back and read my reply on what if HMRC hired it out.
End of the day, its a private company hiring out to another private company. They have religious rules and restrictions which if you had any respect for them you would abide with. Its not asking non-muslims to wear veils. Just not bikinis. Would it really be too much bother for you to wear jeans and a sensible top if you were going that day?
As for the "Im not racist but..." get a grip. Theyre not asking for the whole country to convert. All they are asking is for people who are non-muslims that go on the day they have booked to have a little respect for their beliefs.
And for the "how is it supposed to help" bit, funnily enough did you hear them complain about the Christian day? No. The only people who are complaining are the British. And why? Because they feel excluded? Hardly a surprise is it?
To use this as an excuse for why they havent integrated is appalling. One of the major reasons they havent is because they have encountered attitudes like some of those expressed in this thread daily. Hardly a surprise when they want to stick together is it? :roll: Tbh, you have to be a little discriminatory to see hiring one day at a leisure park as not helping integration or helping people mix. Please point me to the legislation that says absolutely EVERY sodding thing we do has to be with that objective in mind. When you go out on your bike, that isnt contributing to helping society integrate. So why when they have a ONE OFF event its seen as discriminatory or devisive. :?
It only will get your back up if you hold an inherently discriminatory attitude to start with. If you dont, then you will see it purely for what it is: Just another corporate event. The fact no-one complained about the christian day just goes to show people just want to jump on the muslim bashing bandwagon and blame the lack of integration on them rather than British intolerance. Intolerance which has sadly increased somewhat since July 7th last year. :(
Jordan, it would be discriminatory if they were only selling to muslims which if you actually bothered to read about it they arent. What they are pointing out is that they are organising the day for the muslim community in which case this will mean halal food, no music, no alcohol. If you dont wish to respect the fact a muslim organisation has hired the park for that day, simply go on the day the BNP hire it out. :roll: It is irrelevant if its to staff or to the public. Besides HMRC would make it public in that families and friends of staff would also be able to attend and if the park wasnt going to be full they would extend that to selling tickets normally.
And youre forgetting the fact its a private organisation - it can hire to whoever the hell it likes. That is NOT discrimination Jordan. AT has hired to Islamic Leisure, its a purely business transaction which is only discriminatory if you already have that viewpoint. IL are not selling to muslims only - but the odds are that it will only be muslims that attend.
*puts down spoon :wink: :P :lol:
oh and LOL @ snakbar
I just wouldn't want to have to comply with their backwards rules for women. The rest doesn't bother me. Expecting non-muslims to comply is quite frankly outrageous to me. :?
So, I won't be going on that day. :lol:
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 01:56 PM
Unfortunately the underlying tone of some comments does appear to be simply "intolerance and lack of understanding".
Which I find to be a dreadfull shame. :?
Unfortuately the underlying tone of some comments does appear to be simply "intolerance and lack of understanding".
Which I find to be a dreadfull shame. :?
In the tolerant, liberal corner we have Northwind, PH and myself it seems.
And seemingly everyone else in varying steps back towards the other corner.
Has anyone considered that most of the problems we encounter as bikers are because of intolerance of us by car drivers? We dont like it when it happens to us, but far too many people are happy to be intolerant of a demonised [in the media particularly] religion.
Are we about due for Jelster to wade in with "this shouldnt have been posted in general" and accuse me of being a liberal like tolerance and understanding are bad things and go into one with snackbar?? :wink: :P :lol:
End of the day this isnt about muslims hiring AT. Its purely about the press have found another reason to go muslim bashing. If you dont think so consider this.
Do you think if the Royal Albert Hall hired out AT and sold tickets to musicians it would have a. got in the papers or b. got this response from people? Because I dont think it would have even warranted a mention in the press [other than a days out section perhaps] or have generated as much of a reaction from people.
Which means ultimately this is purely how you see muslims and Islam in this country. If you are intolerant of it - then this is a bad thing. If youre tolerant of it - then this is purely a private company hiring for a group of like minded people. Bit like the Angels running the bull dog bash tbh. Ban this, wave goodbye to bike rallies.
He thinks that anyone that is 'outraged' by the actions of having a muslim only day at a theme park really should take a long look at themselves. As has rightly been pointed out, nobody seemed to care anything when AT have done similar in the past for Christians.
I don't think anyone is 'outraged', I'm certainly not, I just don't think AT or whoever organises these 'X only' days should do them. AT probably thinks it is a money spinner or good press or whatever so I can see why they agree to it but I just don't see the value of it. Yes we live in an increasingly multi-cultural society, and that is great, no problem at all, but it is the PC gone mad thing that gets me.
At the schools where my parents teach, both primary schools in very mixed culture areas btw, they have a situation where they celebrate chinese new year, ramadan, etc, but they are being stopped from celebrating lent, and they have to call the traditional Christmas concert the 'fesival of lights'. This is the ridiculous thing that gets me. It is taking positive discrimination too far. It like in the police force recently where they have to hire X over Y to make up a quota, even though Y would be the better person for the job, again, ridiculous.
This is nothing to do with racism, its just a lack of common sense.
/ end second rant!
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 02:06 PM
That is NOT discrimination Jordan.
Of course it is. They might sell the tickets to anyone, but if attendance requires abiding by rules that noone other than a muslim will abide by then it makes no difference.
skidmarx
20-07-06, 02:10 PM
It's a shame really..... why do people have to look for reasons to support their insecurities and ignorance?
Are we going to ban SV only track days too?
I'm with the wooly libs by the way. :)
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 02:16 PM
Unfortuately the underlying tone of some comments does appear to be simply "intolerance and lack of understanding".
Which I find to be a dreadfull shame. :?
In the tolerant, liberal corner we have Northwind, PH and myself it seems.
And seemingly everyone else in varying steps back towards the other corner.
Has anyone considered that most of the problems we encounter as bikers are because of intolerance of us by car drivers? We dont like it when it happens to us, but far too many people are happy to be intolerant of a demonised [in the media particularly] religion.
Are we about due for Jelster to wade in with "this shouldnt have been posted in general" and accuse me of being a liberal like tolerance and understanding are bad things and go into one with snackbar?? :wink: :P :lol:
Oh get off your high horse.
There just happens to be two schools of thought here.
1) It is intollerant to block certain groups of people from hosting events
or
2) It is intollerant to let certain groups of people from hosting events that block others from attending.
Your view on which is the greater evil just happens to differ from mine.
If you dont think so consider this.
Do you think if the Royal Albert Hall hired out AT and sold tickets to musicians it would have a. got in the papers or b. got this response from people? Because I dont think it would have even warranted a mention in the press
Yes but would the Royal Albert Hall specify that only people with a finely tuned ear, carrying an instrument could come in? :lol:
I'm somewhere between left and right on this one. It's great to get people doing things they wouldn't normally do, like muslims going to Alton Towers if that's what the event is supposed to do (my Muslim friends would go any day of the year anyway), but for me it is the issue of political correctness going mad that is my gripe. PC is not what this thread is necessarily about, so erm, I'll get my coat.. :)
snackbar
20-07-06, 02:19 PM
Unfortuately the underlying tone of some comments does appear to be simply "intolerance and lack of understanding".
Which I find to be a dreadfull shame. :?
In the tolerant, liberal corner we have Northwind, PH and myself it seems.
And seemingly everyone else in varying steps back towards the other corner.
Has anyone considered that most of the problems we encounter as bikers are because of intolerance of us by car drivers? We dont like it when it happens to us, but far too many people are happy to be intolerant of a demonised [in the media particularly] religion.
Are we about due for Jelster to wade in with "this shouldnt have been posted in general" and accuse me of being a liberal like tolerance and understanding are bad things and go into one with snackbar?? :wink: :P :lol:
Oh get off your high horse.
There just happens to be two schools of thought here.
1) It is intollerant to block certain groups of people from hosting events
or
2) It is intollerant to let certain groups of people from hosting events that block others from attending.
Your view on which is the greater evil just happens to differ from mine.
Which school are you with Jordan?
Oh get off your high horse.
There just happens to be two schools of thought here.
1) It is intollerant to block certain groups of people from hosting events
or
2) It is intollerant to let certain groups of people from hosting events that block others from attending.
Your view on which is the greater evil just happens to differ from mine.
Jordan its not me that needs the ladder here but you.
You are making weak arguments based on picking subtleties and ignoring the real arguments [staff vs public for example]. You say its discrimination but in that case then when a school hires a coach and only lets its pupils on for a school trip by your definition thats discrimination. Its also stupid. Dont bother replying as Im not wasting my energy debating semantics with you anymore. :roll:
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 02:25 PM
Oh get off your high horse.
There just happens to be two schools of thought here.
1) It is intollerant to block certain groups of people from hosting events
or
2) It is intollerant to let certain groups of people from hosting events that block others from attending.
Your view on which is the greater evil just happens to differ from mine.
Jordan its not me that needs the ladder here but you.
You are making weak arguments based on picking subtleties and ignoring the real arguments [staff vs public for example]. You say its discrimination but in that case then when a school hires a coach and only lets its pupils on for a school trip by your definition thats discrimination. Its also stupid. Dont bother replying as Im not wasting my energy debating semantics with you anymore. :roll:
If you dont understand the difference between private and public it's probably best you dont try debating further.
pegasus
20-07-06, 02:37 PM
seems to be a lot of uneducated people appearing on this forum recently...if this is the way the "great british" public reacts to a gathering of a group of people with a mutual understanding then you can keep it.....maybe its time i packed my cases and moved somewhere where peoples individual ideals are respected
:evil:
Jordan / Lyn I believe a better example may be:
HotTrax book out AT for the day, a bikers only day at alton towers. Anyone can go, as long as you have your leathers and a lid with you.
Is this discrimination against non bikers? Nope, rules of the day. Same a a fancy dress party.
Same applies to religious groups. If Jehovah Witness wants to hire the park for a day, and only allow other JW's to join, fine.
Same applies to this scenario. A private company is booking a location for a day and subletting it to another group with there own rules.
Its like turning up to a bike track day in a car. They have every right to turn you away if your not in accordance with the rules.
Dan
OK, my view (from a non Muslim minority group). I am oriantal and I am no Muslim.
I have a few questions for those people who are afraid of talking about these issues because of the political correctness.
Question 1. If a group of you wanted to do some stuff you take for granted over here(say bathing under the sun with next to nothing on) in some very religious country who you know it’s NOT going to go down well with the locals, would you still do it? If yes, would you require the locals that appears in your sight also dress the same (strip down to minimum or nothnig)? If not, why?
Question 2. Why do people behave differently when they are on holiday (say Greece uncoverred style)? Is it because the locals have more tolerance thus leading to the lowing of moral fibre? Or is it because the amount of money weighs far heavier then anything else they’ve been tought when they were young?
Question 3. Do people feel they are on a different level and feel more superial then others if they could supress their own emotional feeling even when their own liberty being trampled upon?
Question 4. When one of your party guests comes along not wearing any cloth (religion of X), and shortly after started demanding others to strip, reason being, if you don’t, it is disrespectful to the god of X, would you A: be PC and ask all other guests to strip, or B: Get him/her a own separate room and separate him/her from the rest or C: kick him/her out of your party?
Now my own view. As a person of ethenic origion, I believe a foreigner regardless from what religion, backgroud, ethinic group should try to integrate into the local society rather then the locals try to integrate to them. It is called respect. This should not be a race issue nor a religion issue.
Why this is an important issue for me? As an immigrant, I tried my best to integrate with the society here, I work hard, I pay tax, I make contribution to the society. In fact I am almost invisible because I am part of the society (at least I believe). I fear that the extension of the tolerance displayed by some here and governemnt policy (although I admire the quality to some extent) would lead to the society reaching to a breaking point. And when that happens, guess who will be in the firing line? Not you, but people like me.
And i just realised that i have derailed the actual topic somewhat.. sry
Nothing to add. Lynw said it all.
*Nods respect in the lady's general direction, then wanders off to sulk because she always arrives too late for the party*
northwind
20-07-06, 03:15 PM
Both the Jewish and Muslim religions demand that slaughter is carried out with a single cut to the throat, rather than the more widespread method of stunning with a bolt into the head before slaughter.
Sorry if you're going to kill something to eat it, do it as quickly and as painlesly as possible
Ever been in a slaughterhouse? The bolt to the head is sometimes (don't know how often, I saw 2) not immediately lethal, or even slowly lethal, often it just maims the animal, and makes them impossible to manage so sometimes a second blow can't be administered for some time. The cut to the throat isn't instant, but it's still fast and extremely reliable. I'm not sure what's less humane, a fast and near-painless but sometimes very slow and painful method, or an always painful and fairly fast one...
Some halal slaughterhouses stun the animal before the slaughter, not sure how that works though.
If you dont understand the difference between private and public it's probably best you dont try debating further.
*sigh* The public/private is irrelevant to the debate imho.
The above is precisely why its a waste of time trying to debate something with you. Resorting to comments on someones intelligence, understanding or debating skills is hardly a constructive effort is it?
Poor show Jordan. If you cant argue a point without resorting to the above type comments then its you who shouldnt be debating.
some say the meat tasts better when the blood are drained... but i can't tell the difference.
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 03:31 PM
If you dont understand the difference between private and public it's probably best you dont try debating further.
*sigh* The public/private is irrelevant to the debate imho.
The above is precisely why its a waste of time trying to debate something with you. Resorting to comments on someones intelligence, understanding or debating skills is hardly a constructive effort is it?
Poor show Jordan. If you cant argue a point without resorting to the above type comments then its you who shouldnt be debating.
The public/private element isn't irrelevant given the context.
If you think it's ok to claim you have the correct point of view, and that those who don't share it are intollerant, don't complain if people question your understanding.
Jon from Bristol
20-07-06, 03:32 PM
Hi
As a white, very english 42 year old dad of two and sv rider of some 2 yrs now who acepted Islam as his religion just three years ago i would like to say thanks to lynw for being the voice of reason in here.
If anyone has any questions / misconceptions that i can clear up regarding Islam i'd be happy to do so.
Jon from Bristol
UlsterSV
20-07-06, 03:40 PM
It's all kicking off on the .org :twisted: :lol:
Well I am probably the least liberal person on this forum and even I don't find this offensive. A Muslim group has hired out a theme park to hold a Muslim only day and I don't see the problem with that at all.
Political correctness and positive discrimination has a profound affect on almost everything in Britain resulting in injustices against the British people but no-one seems to really give a ****. But then something trivial like this comes along which in no way discriminates against anyone (because anyone can hire out this theme park if they so wish) and everyone is up in arms expressing their disgust.
I find it both ironic and amusing. There are bigger fish to fry than a bloody theme park.
northwind
20-07-06, 03:42 PM
If you dont understand the difference between private and public it's probably best you dont try debating further.
Stwraw man there, Squirrel... It's not that he doesn't understand the difference, it's that he disputes its relevance. Whether it's being booked on behalf of a company or a group of individuals is, I would say, not relevant. I honestly can't see why you would think it is.
It's all kicking off on the .org :twisted: :lol:
Well I am probably the least liberal person on this forum and even I don't find this offensive. A Muslim group has hired out a theme park to hold a Muslim only day and I don't see the problem with that at all.
Political correctness and positive discrimination has a profound affect on almost everything in Britain resulting in injustices against the British people but no-one seems to really give a sh*t. But then something trivial like this comes along which in no way discriminates against anyone (because anyone can hire out this theme park if they so wish) and everyone is up in arms expressing their disgust.
I find it both ironic and amusing. There are bigger fish to fry than a bloody theme park.
It's not a muslim only day, other people can go but they're expected to adhere to muslim customs for the day. i.e boys and girls aren't allowed to go on the rides together, girls must be fully clothed, no flesh on show, no music, etc.
the wedding party booked the place first, surely they should get priority. (i am not suggesting the muslim party should wear appropriate cloth for wedding) but since most things can be brought over by money now adays, i am sure it wouldn't be an issue once the wedding party are made aware that they will be in fact making money on their wedding rather then spending money..
northwind
20-07-06, 03:48 PM
If you dont understand the difference between private and public it's probably best you dont try debating further.
Stwraw man there, Squirrel... It's not that he doesn't understand the difference, it's that he disputes its relevance. Whether it's being booked on behalf of a company or a group of individuals is, I would say, not relevant. I honestly can't see why you would think it is.
What's with the 'no music' thing anyway? I don't get it.
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 03:56 PM
If you dont understand the difference between private and public it's probably best you dont try debating further.
Stwraw man there, Squirrel... It's not that he doesn't understand the difference, it's that he disputes its relevance. Whether it's being booked on behalf of a company or a group of individuals is, I would say, not relevant. I honestly can't see why you would think it is.
It's most definately relavent.
If you held a private party and only wanted friends to attend, those are the only people who'd be welcome, because its a private event.
If you held a public party but didn't allow blacks in, for arguments sake, then you'd be discriminatory.
Once an event becomes public, entrance is no longer based on invitation so anyone should be able to attend. Any condition on entry becomes discrimination.
It's not a muslim only day, other people can go but they're expected to adhere to muslim customs for the day. i.e boys and girls aren't allowed to go on the rides together, girls must be fully clothed, no flesh on show, no music, etc.
Ok another example. You are invited to a wedding where your best mate asks you to dress smartly. What do you do?
If you respect your mates wishes you will dress accordingly. If you dont you would turn up in a Cradle of Filth T shirt.
The park has been hired by a muslim company and they are providing muslim facilities for the muslims that want to go. If you want to go then if you have any respect for their culture and their request you will dress accordingly. And tbh its not hard - trousers and a sensible top is all thats being asked for. You wouldnt be expected to don a burqa which by peoples reactions seems to be what they think is being asked.
I think most people here though would struggle with the no alcohol one though :wink: :P :lol:
PS. respecting someone elses culture/religion doesnt mean to say you agree with it either before we open up that debate. :P :lol:
Can I point out some differences I have noticed between the different examples (while acknowledging others have also touched on them)
The Muslims are being restrictive by not allowing the Bride & Groom to go on a ride together. Whereas I doubt any Muslims were forced to ride with members of the opposite sex when the Christians hired out AT (obviously in practise it would most likely be mixed sex if they wanted to ride).
The restrictions placed by the theoretical HMRC outing are simply adhering to the law in this country.
I think the only people who have a right to complain are the Bridal party, as they had a prior booking and are being inconvenienced.
Anybody who subsequently books, as long as they are advised or it is advertised that it is a Muslim day can accept it or choose a different day.
As I understand it, Halal meat would make a good substitute for Organic meat and is not as expensive.
Just my 2p worth.
It's most definately relavent.
If you held a private party and only wanted friends to attend, those are the only people who'd be welcome, because its a private event.
If you held a public party but didn't allow blacks in, for arguments sake, then you'd be discriminatory.
Once an event becomes public, entrance is no longer based on invitation so anyone should be able to attend. Any condition on entry becomes discrimination.
End of the day, regardless of my opinion on the relevance of public/private, you have a dress code in a lot of pubs over the weekends. This dress code has become an accepted part of British culture, you know the No trainers, no shorts etc rules. So it seems its ok for the British to do this but the moment a muslim company makes that request for its day all hell breaks loose.
And why my ultimate point is this isnt about the day at all but a vehicle for muslim bashing in the media and for people to jump on that bandwagon.
PS. respecting someone elses culture/religion doesnt mean to say you agree with it either before we open up that debate.
Respect means you don't try to shove your own culture on to others in the face and force them to accept it.
if you don't like the food, would you go back again. buy why when some people from some culture can not stand the culture over here but insisting on coming here?
It's not a muslim only day, other people can go but they're expected to adhere to muslim customs for the day. i.e boys and girls aren't allowed to go on the rides together, girls must be fully clothed, no flesh on show, no music, etc.
Ok another example. You are invited to a wedding where your best mate asks you to dress smartly. What do you do?
If you respect your mates wishes you will dress accordingly. If you dont you would turn up in a Cradle of Filth T shirt.
The park has been hired by a muslim company and they are providing muslim facilities for the muslims that want to go. If you want to go then if you have any respect for their culture and their request you will dress accordingly. And tbh its not hard - trousers and a sensible top is all thats being asked for. You wouldnt be expected to don a burqa which by peoples reactions seems to be what they think is being asked.
I think most people here though would struggle with the no alcohol one though :wink: :P :lol:
PS. respecting someone elses culture/religion doesnt mean to say you agree with it either before we open up that debate. :P :lol:
If the way anything's run doesn't fit in with my standards I just won't do it. I disagree with non-muslims being expected to adhere so I would simply (roll my eyes, shake my head :lol:) excercise my choice to just not go. Would be the same with a mate's wedding.
well i wasnt planning on heading there on that day, do i dont really care.
Spiderman
20-07-06, 04:11 PM
....why when some people from some culture can not stand the culture over here but insisting on coming here?
A very good question KrZ, possibly the most sensible and important question asked on this thread so far.
Same goes for all the other refugees who make their way here thru all the nice european countries. Why?
Money is the main answer i've heard but thats surely not more important than someones religion is it?
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 04:12 PM
Well you dissapear to the beach for a couple of hours and 4 further pages have been created. :shock:
My way would be,( out of interest and if time was available) to happily attend this particular day. I would be happy to "walk in another man's shoes" I might get the opportunity to engage one or two people of the Islamic faith in conversation and perhaps get to know something about what being a Muslim actually means.
They are not all bearded and ranting fanatics you know folks. The vast majority are fine and decent people. They simply follow some slightly different guidelines than those of us brought up following a christian doctrine.
In addition, again in the greater amount of cases they adhere to the exact same laws as you and I do,there are not that many special concessions made as far as I am aware. Certainly not enough for me to feel that my way of life was under threat. :?
Respect means you don't try to shove your own culture on to others in the face and force them to accept it.
if you don't like the food, would you go back again. buy why when some people from some culture can not stand the culture over here but insisting on coming here?
Because despite its instances of intolerance our society is one of the most tolerant in the world. Because people can come here and integrate but still maintain their culture, customs and traditions. And because we as a nation benefit from it when they do.
Btw, Ive recommended this book to others but would be interested in your take on it. Its called Bloody Foreigners by Robert Winder and is a history of immigration to this country. Interestingly he makes the observation that you made earlier that extreme liberals are as shortsighted as the extreme anti-immigration lobby.
I personally try and tread the middle ground. I accept we need controls, but equally Ive been called a bleeding heart liberal by others because I dont hold the stereotypical view of immigrants that the mail/sun portray. I know its a problem and not one easily fixed. I think the benefits of immigrants here outweigh the problems. And the reason for lack of integration is partly down to hostility from the British - whether you receive that or not I dont know. Also our system does not help - we prevent people who are skilled from being able to live and work for the 6 months their application takes and force them onto benefits and seen as outcasts by a society that resents them being on benefits.
Jon from Bristol
20-07-06, 04:31 PM
What's with the 'no music' thing anyway? I don't get it.
Some scholars of Islam say that music is used as a means for drilling western ideologies, which are totally contrary to Islamic Shariah and values, into the minds of Muslims. For instance, many songs of today talk about relationships before marriage, of violence, drug taking and homosexuality. All these things are forbidden in Islam.
Also “ It`s my life, I`ll do what I want” is a predominant, underlying theme of today`s music. A muslim submits his will entirely to his maker. His maker or creator or we call him ALLAH has deemed for him certain rules on how to live his life in harmony and peace with fellow human beings. By the way, some muslims are better/worse at this than others. If everybody did what they pleased there would be anarchy in the world. We all live by rules of some sort. Muslims live by the rules of the creator of all things in existence. These rules can be found in the Quran and actions and sayings of the Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him)
Jon from Bristol.
What's with the 'no music' thing anyway? I don't get it.
Some scholars of Islam say that music is used as a means for drilling western ideologies, which are totally contrary to Islamic Shariah and values, into the minds of Muslims. For instance, many songs of today talk about relationships before marriage, of violence, drug taking and homosexuality. All these things are forbidden in Islam.
Also “ It`s my life, I`ll do what I want” is a predominant, underlying theme of today`s music. A muslim submits his will entirely to his maker. His maker or creator or we call him ALLAH has deemed for him certain rules on how to live his life in harmony and peace with fellow human beings. By the way, some muslims are better/worse at this than others. If everybody did what they pleased there would be anarchy in the world. We all live by rules of some sort. Muslims live by the rules of the creator of all things in existence. These rules can be found in the Quran and actions and sayings of the Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him)
Jon from Bristol.
Ah, I see... but western / modern music isn't the only music there is... but I guess it's easier just to say 'none' instead of having to go through and decide what's acceptable and what isn't...
Spiderman
20-07-06, 04:38 PM
What's with the 'no music' thing anyway? I don't get it.
Some scholars of Islam say that music is used as a means for drilling western ideologies, which are totally contrary to Islamic Shariah and values, into the minds of Muslims. For instance, many songs of today talk about relationships before marriage, of violence, drug taking and homosexuality. All these things are forbidden in Islam.
Also “ It`s my life, I`ll do what I want” is a predominant, underlying theme of today`s music. A muslim submits his will entirely to his maker. His maker or creator or we call him ALLAH has deemed for him certain rules on how to live his life in harmony and peace with fellow human beings. By the way, some muslims are better/worse at this than others. If everybody did what they pleased there would be anarchy in the world. We all live by rules of some sort. Muslims live by the rules of the creator of all things in existence. These rules can be found in the Quran and actions and sayings of the Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him)
Jon from Bristol.
Ah, I see... but western / modern music isn't the only music there is... but I guess it's easier just to say 'none' instead of having to go through and decide what's acceptable and what isn't...
True, but they could equaly just go for the instrumental version of any songs they like?
Lynw
I agree on what you are saying, anything extreme can lead to problems. Being minority here, there has been many occations that racist remarks have been made towards me. But then again, I just treat it as someone is jealous of me being normal, having a house, car, bike etc… and work. (Usually those comments come from little chavs).
In terms of the lack of integration, I personally wouldn’t go as far as putting mainly British to blame. It takes two to tango as we all know. And a mutual respect is needed especially from a society perspective. (on the personal level, i am sure most of us have friends that are from ethinic groups).
In terms of benefiting the country, just for an example, we lack of doctors, but there are many doctors from other countries that do appreciates this country’s OWN culture would love to be giving the opportunities to help out but yet they are not represented here. I really don’t know the answer.
carelesschucca
20-07-06, 04:49 PM
God it winds me up.
Does God care??? Or should I say Allah...
Jon from Bristol
20-07-06, 04:49 PM
What's with the 'no music' thing anyway? I don't get it.
Some scholars of Islam say that music is used as a means for drilling western ideologies, which are totally contrary to Islamic Shariah and values, into the minds of Muslims. For instance, many songs of today talk about relationships before marriage, of violence, drug taking and homosexuality. All these things are forbidden in Islam.
Also “ It`s my life, I`ll do what I want” is a predominant, underlying theme of today`s music. A muslim submits his will entirely to his maker. His maker or creator or we call him ALLAH has deemed for him certain rules on how to live his life in harmony and peace with fellow human beings. By the way, some muslims are better/worse at this than others. If everybody did what they pleased there would be anarchy in the world. We all live by rules of some sort. Muslims live by the rules of the creator of all things in existence. These rules can be found in the Quran and actions and sayings of the Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him)
Jon from Bristol.
Ah, I see... but western / modern music isn't the only music there is... but I guess it's easier just to say 'none' instead of having to go through and decide what's acceptable and what isn't...
True, but they could equaly just go for the instrumental version of any songs they like?
It is proved that music affect`s one`s emotions, increases arousal in terms of alertness and excitement and also leads to various physiological changes in the person. In a psychology experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one`s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.
All these affects could and do make one stray from the rememberance of God. Islam basically is about acknowleging, remembering and just being grateful to him as much as one can. Music in all its form may distract a person from remembering his creator.
Jon from Bristol
It is proved that music affect`s one`s emotions, increases arousal in terms of alertness and excitement and also leads to various physiological changes in the person. In a psychology experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one`s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.
All these affects could and do make one stray from the rememberance of God. Islam basically is about acknowleging, remembering and just being grateful to him as much as one can. Music in all its form may distract a person from remembering his creator.
Jon from Bristol
Specially when your trippin' on an 'E'! :wink:
Flamin_Squirrel
20-07-06, 05:14 PM
And why my ultimate point is this isnt about the day at all but a vehicle for muslim bashing in the media and for people to jump on that bandwagon.
This is true. Anyone who feels a grievance by muslims being discriminatory towards non muslims in this case has to accept that wanting to stop them from holding this event is in it's self is discriminatory, and they are in no position to get on their high horse.
What I was trying to illustrait was that either way there is going to be a certain amount of discrimination going on. There is no right answer, which is why although I thought alot of your points were valid, I played devils adovcate and argued against them when you accused sharriso of being intollerant. He was, but so were you, and so was I :)
northwind
20-07-06, 06:46 PM
definately relavent.
If you held a private party and only wanted friends to attend, those are the only people who'd be welcome, because its a private event.
If you held a public party but didn't allow blacks in, for arguments sake, then you'd be discriminatory.
Once an event becomes public, entrance is no longer based on invitation so anyone should be able to attend. Any condition on entry becomes discrimination.
They're not preventing non-muslims from attending, as is clear from the original story, so this is all utterly missing the point. It's like saying "if you held a public nudist party and wouldn't let people in fully clothed, that's discriminatory". Or that political organisatons discriminate by not welcoming people who disagree with their views- they're public organisations after all.
Jelster
20-07-06, 06:59 PM
Are we about due for Jelster to wade in with "this shouldnt have been posted in general" and accuse me of being a liberal like tolerance and understanding are bad things and go into one with snackbar?? :wink: :P :lol:
Winks or not, that was quite uncalled for...... Now who's discriminating who Lyn ?
You have me comepletely wrong. My issue was that I believed one individual had no other interest than causing problems on the forum, and if you knew what had been going on in the background you may not have been so quick to jump down my throat in the fist place.
However, back on topic, I see this as no more than a business transaction between 2 parties. Personally I doubt that Tussauds Group actually considered that in "the present climate" it may not such a good idea for business (as you can tell by the reaction here). But then maybe they were between a rock and a hard place, if they said "no", then they open themselves up to be pasted with the anti muslim brush.....
.
I have no idea if my comments are correct or not though. :?
As I rule of thumb, you'd best presume they're not! :lol: :P
Vtwinlover
20-07-06, 07:11 PM
Alton Towers can do what they like its their theme park it they wanna hold a big titted blonde day so be it.
The thing that does **** me of is when any reference to Christianity is seen as oppressive or provocative towards other faiths :smt093 When schools are shy of leaning towards any particular faith or when St George crosses are seen as racist or offensive. This is after all a Christian country. I'm all for intergration but i dont see why things in this country have to get so diluted, and minority groups start wielding more power than the majority and imposing their views. After all how many non-Christian countries can you rock up to and start shouting your mouth off about Jesus.
I'd like to see someone go up to the budist monks and say "Hang about baldy, all this talk of budda offends me here have a copy of the holy bible"
:rave:
Peter Henry
20-07-06, 07:13 PM
Cronos wrote:
As I rule of thumb, you'd best presume they're not!
Wise advice indeed sir,thank you. :wink:
It is proved that music affect`s one`s emotions, increases arousal in terms of alertness and excitement and also leads to various physiological changes in the person. In a psychology experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one`s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.
All these affects could and do make one stray from the rememberance of God. Islam basically is about acknowleging, remembering and just being grateful to him as much as one can. Music in all its form may distract a person from remembering his creator.Jon from Bristol
Erm, don't theme park rides affect your emotions, increase your arousal and lead to physiological changes? If you think they don't, go on Air or Oblivion! Sorry but this 'no music' thing is boll*cks if that's the only argument against it! I would have thought the furthest thing from a persons mind when in a theme park is 'remembering his creator'. I could understand them not wanting Christina Aguilera warbling 'Dirrty' in the background but a bit of light pan-pipes surely couldn't hurt?! :lol:
Jon from Bristol
20-07-06, 09:51 PM
It is proved that music affect`s one`s emotions, increases arousal in terms of alertness and excitement and also leads to various physiological changes in the person. In a psychology experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one`s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.
All these affects could and do make one stray from the rememberance of God. Islam basically is about acknowleging, remembering and just being grateful to him as much as one can. Music in all its form may distract a person from remembering his creator.Jon from Bristol
Erm, don't theme park rides affect your emotions, increase your arousal and lead to physiological changes? If you think they don't, go on Air or Oblivion! Sorry but this 'no music' thing is boll*cks if that's the only argument against it! I would have thought the furthest thing from a persons mind when in a theme park is 'remembering his creator'. I could understand them not wanting Christina Aguilera warbling 'Dirrty' in the background but a bit of light pan-pipes surely couldn't hurt?! :lol:
Yes you are right, but you dont go to theme parks everyday do you? Or do you?
On the other hand music infiltrates our lives everyday in so many ways. They play it in supermarkets to lul you into the buying mood. They play it on advertisements on tv to make you buy flash cars and bigger and better things. Even walking down the street you get an earful from cars with their boom boxes. Music is like a drug in a way. People use it to help themselves forget, to help them sooth away their cares. All these things distracts from what is the most important thing to a muslim...namely God. This is how it is to a Muslim. Its not boll*cks as you so put it, its how it is, was and always will be.
Jon from Bristol
Yes you are right, but you dont go to theme parks everyday do you? Or do you?
On the other hand music infiltrates our lives everyday in so many ways. They play it in supermarkets to lul you into the buying mood. They play it on advertisements on tv to make you buy flash cars and bigger and better things. Even walking down the street you get an earful from cars with their boom boxes. Music is like a drug in a way. People use it to help themselves forget, to help them sooth away their cares. All these things distracts from what is the most important thing to a muslim...namely God. This is how it is to a Muslim. Its not boll*cks as you so put it, its how it is, was and always will be.
Jon from Bristol
Well do you really think that most people think about God all the time? Whichever God you might worship, that is? Even as a memebr of the CofE, I don't... Might be all that matters to a Muslim, but it ain't all that matters to others. Life would be very very boring if we did, we might as well ask all the mullahs to come over and teach us how to live it up. How you live is entirely up to you, don't expect others to comply.
If AT wants to hire out to Muslims, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. They hire out to other groups, what is the problem? The fact that they cancelled a wedding party - well is this really relevant?
I can't see how anyone can be offended over this, I can't see it at all. But the profile this is getting - as stated by others, it's become a Muslim bashing exercise. Regrettable, IMHO.
As an atheist I find all this puffing and posturing over religion half amusing and half sad.
I don't get offended by anyone choosing to belive in God...............what DOES offend me is them trying to push their religious beliefs, customs and prejudices onto me.
I wouldn't go around trying to stop people believing in God ( whatever his/her name may be) so in return I would like them not to try to make me conform to their religious strictures.
Jon from Bristol
20-07-06, 10:37 PM
Yes you are right, but you dont go to theme parks everyday do you? Or do you?
On the other hand music infiltrates our lives everyday in so many ways. They play it in supermarkets to lul you into the buying mood. They play it on advertisements on tv to make you buy flash cars and bigger and better things. Even walking down the street you get an earful from cars with their boom boxes. Music is like a drug in a way. People use it to help themselves forget, to help them sooth away their cares. All these things distracts from what is the most important thing to a muslim...namely God. This is how it is to a Muslim. Its not boll*cks as you so put it, its how it is, was and always will be.
Jon from Bristol
Well do you really think that most people think about God all the time? Whichever God you might worship, that is? Even as a memebr of the CofE, I don't... Might be all that matters to a Muslim, but it ain't all that matters to others. Life would be very very boring if we did, we might as well ask all the mullahs to come over and teach us how to live it up. How you live is entirely up to you, don't expect others to comply.
If AT wants to hire out to Muslims, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. They hire out to other groups, what is the problem? The fact that they cancelled a wedding party - well is this really relevant?
I can't see how anyone can be offended over this, I can't see it at all. But the profile this is getting - as stated by others, it's become a Muslim bashing exercise. Regrettable, IMHO.
Hey! I'm not trying to tell anyone how to live their lives im just explaining to someone why Muslims have got a thing about music. Each to his own I say.
fizzwheel
20-07-06, 10:40 PM
Each to his own I say.
That is by far and away the most sensible thing thats been posted in this thead.
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