Tour de France winner 2006

[keithd]

floyd landis (i think) tested postive for drugs

more to follow

[tricky]

I was reading somthing the other day saying its almost impossible to be "clean" and compete at the top level in cycling.
i.e the're all taking something
They just have to think of new and cleverer ways of concealing the performance enhancing substances.

[sharriso74]

Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has failed a drugs test, his team has revealed. The Phonak team said that his testosterone levels were found to be unusually high in an official anti-doping test during the race. A statement from the Swiss-based team said: "The team management and the rider were both totally surprised of this physiological result."

Phonak said Landis would ask for analysis of his back-up 'B' sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that

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this resulting from a mistake."

The test was done on the evening of his victory in the 17th stage of the Tour de France to Morzine when he managed to claim the mountainous stage victory after a 130km solo breakaway.

The 30-year-old American regained the yellow jersey two days after winning in Morzine and won the race overall in Paris on July 23.

Landis has been suspended pending the results and Phonak said he would be fired from the team if the second sample confirmed the initial finding.

The Tour has been dogged by drugs problems recently, with some leading riders being suspended from the race shortly before it started because of positive tests.

[DanDare]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/5221122.stm

Errmmm???? :? :? :? :?

Don't all men have Testosterone already ( Except Dale Winton )

[keithd]

I was reading somthing the other day saying its almost impossible to be "clean" and compete at the top level in cycling.
i.e the're all taking something
They just have to think of new and cleverer ways of concealing the performance enhancing substances.

i think you're right, it can be something as "daft" as a Vics Synex (which i think Alistair Baxter took in the Winter Olympics in 2002) that can give you a positive reading.

hardly Ben Jonhson type stuff is it?! :shock:

[philipMac]

Yeah, all people have testosterone in their system, its the amounts they are worried about.

I know that Landis was on tons of Cortisone, and other steroids. This was because his hip was essentially rotting, and has been since he crashed about three years ago.
(He is getting a new hip in a few months now.)

Testosterone is another steroid. All of these "ones" look fairly similar to mass specs I think. Its possible that the abundance of cortisone in his system looked like Testosterone.
Or... for some reason he actually had naturally elevated testosterone levels.

Or, he was doping.

Who knows. The longer I live though, the more glad I made the decision (or rather had it made for me due to being a bit crap) that I was not going to spend any more time trying to be a pro rider. Its all just very sad.

It is possible to be clean and be a pro these days. It is just very very very difficult it seems. There is a culture of doping. For instance, your very own Chris Boardman was clean I have heard.

I am not going to comment about Kelly or Roche :(

[Biker Biggles]

Cyclists doing drugs?I don't believe a word of it. :lol:

[philipMac]

Cyclists doing drugs?I don't believe a word of it. :lol:

I suppose... cycling is my sport. I feel like its being (or has been) ruined.

I think its a wonderful sport, that there is nothing else like it. Pro riders are really phenomenal athletes, tacticians and technicians all rolled into one. The suffering, and the levels of toughness that become your daily routine are unparralelled by any other sport.

And the whole thing is becoming a laughing stock now.

[Filipe M.]

And the whole thing is becoming a laughing stock now.

It's annoying the hell out of me too. I never done road cycling, but a few years ago I practically lived on a mountain bike, so I had some affinity with the sport. I wouldn't miss a Tour transmission on the telly, and still have great memories of some Marco Pantani, Laurent Jalabert, to name but two, doing what I thought impossible.

Then it all came tumbling down in drugs. Pantani's suicide, the Festina scandal... :roll:
I can honestly say I didn't sit down to watch 5 minutes worth of the Tour, this year. If someone told me 8 years ago I would be doing this, I'd laugh at their faces. :roll:

[philipMac]

Pantani
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/2000/tour_de_france/news/2000/07/17/verbal_feud_ap/lg_pantani_ap-01.jpg

Kelly (The Hard Man).
http://outyourbackdoor.com/Images/pic.sean.kelly.jpg

Merckx (The Cannibal)
http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/merckx_1969_2.jpg

LeMonde
http://www.cyfronet.krakow.pl/rowery/images/rozne/roubaix2.jpg


Just wanted to get back into a good mood a little.

[Filipe M.]

Pantani

Kelly (The Hard Man).

Merckx (The Cannibal)

LeMonde

Just wanted to get back into a good mood a little.

Miguel Indurain

Alex Zulle

"Super" Mario Cippolini

Laurent Jalabert, a real gentleman on the bicycle

and the list goes on...

[fizzwheel]

And the whole thing is becoming a laughing stock now.

I agree. It does tarnish the image of the sport. IIRC I dont believe this is the first time Landis has been found guilty of this either.

I used to love watching Le Tour, I remember being on the edge of my seat when Lemmond beat Fignon by that tiny margin in the final time trial years ago.

[Iain51]

I used to love watching Le Tour, I remember being on the edge of my seat when Lemmond beat Fignon by that tiny margin in the final time trial years ago.

Ditto.

And 8 seconds. :shock:

[fizzwheel]

Is it Greg Lemmond who has shotgun pellets wedged in his spine from a hunting accident ?

I think it'll be along time before anyone beats Lance's number of tour wins record.

Mind you I said that about Big Mig as well.

[Red ones]

It is hardly surprising that cycling is so blighted with drugs scandals - it is the most drug tested sport by miles. The drug testing gets in the way of the cyclists private life out of season.

Contrast this with football. How many disgraced footballers are there through drug taking? How many tests do the average premiership players face?

The more you test, the more you will find.

A pro-cyclist cannot take a large number of over the counter non-prescriptive flu remedies, as they contain banned substances, including codiene. The list of substances is truely phenomenal for cycling. The greatest tradegy I feel is the fact that each governing body of each sport defines it's own list of banned substances, hence cycling, for whom the UCI are VERY strict, gets a lot of failures and a bad reputation in teh press. Other, more relaxed, sports don't get the failures and don't get the media attention.

[philipMac]

It is hardly surprising that cycling is so blighted with drugs scandals - it is the most drug tested sport by miles. The drug testing gets in the way of the cyclists private life out of season.


It is, unfortunately, also to do with the fact that cycling is absolutely rife with drug taking. Drugs are part of cycling. They are ingrained into teams. They are part of the deal.

Cyclists who do not take drugs are the exception. They are the ones that people talk about.

This is not new, "Only a fool would imagine it was possible to ride Bordeaux-Paris on just water." Jacques Anquetil, on TV debating with French minister of sport, 1967. (Anquetil won 5 tours.)

Tom Simpson died from basically an OD on the Ventoux a little while later.

[Peter Henry]

Well the B test has also proven Landis guilty of drug taking. Which shows him to be a lying F+cker! He has immediately been sacked from his team. Accepting that drugs use is rife..I do not accept that ALL riders are guilty.

That ass hole Landis completely blew apart on Stage 16 of the Tour and then the next day took off in the 17th stage like a man possessed...obviously he truly was.

How could they hope to get away with this?

Well I truly hope that Pereiro is crowned champ in a fitting ceremony as he is a really lovely guy. 8)

[philipMac]

I am taking a slightly differant tack than you peter.

Wrt Landis lying. I dont know. Yeah, he has broken the rules. Yeah he has done it before. And, yeah he knew it was wrong.
His problem was he got caught.
Most of them dont.

When I say doping is rife in the sport, its not something that makes me happy. But, I have talked to people, who are / were vital parts of major cycling teams, and I have been told this. Time and again, for years now. Finally, I am not ignoring what they are saying. Again, a non doping rider is the exception it seems.

I was also told that this years Tour was the cleanest that most poeple can remember. And, this is a step in the right direction.

But, what I really want to say was people should not be angry with Landis. His life is effectively ruined. He will probably never ride again. His tour was taken away from him. And the people that did this, that set up the events will have no punishment whatsoever. All of these riders, Pereiro included, are in a very bad place in this respect. Its not fair to heap blame on them, any more than it is to heap blame on Jenson Button for some computer trickery that illegally gives his car more downforce. You think everyone in the entire team doesnt know about this? You think that Button should be kicked out of F1, hated by all, while his Lucky Strike Honda turn up for the next race? Its not.

I am sure Pereiro is a nice guy. (I know is Landis is too.)

The sad thing is... I believe that the Testosterone probably had little or nothing to do with the 17th stage ride. I wasnt suprised at all to see him ride strongly that day. This is the usual way of things in cycling. After a really bad day, you are often strong, regardless of the dope in you.

[Peter Henry]

Phil...So come on then...I only pay attention when following 3 or 4 tour events each year...but you are a big fan........how do they make this sport clean? Can it be done?

[fizzwheel]

Phil...So come on then...I only pay attention when following 3 or 4 tour events each year...but you are a big fan........how do they make this sport clean? Can it be done?

Personally with the current format of the cycling season. Probably not. The physcial demands on the body IMHO are to high for anybody no matter how fit to get through a season without some help. Especially if you've taken a knock or after injury.

I think probably the best way to deal with this is to tolerate it a little more and reduce the level of what they test for. If IIRC they UCI list of banned or controlled substances is huge. I've heard of people failing a test because they took an over the counter cough mixture which contained a banned substance.

One thing I do think though is that Landis isnt the first and he won't be the last either and all this really really does is just tarnish the image of the sport.

[philipMac]

Phil...So come on then...I only pay attention when following 3 or 4 tour events each year...but you are a big fan........how do they make this sport clean? Can it be done?

Its simple.

If someone is caught doping:

The team recieves a fine calibrated on a team by team basis, that will hurt.
The team also cannot race in any event for a period of time.

The team sponser cannot sposer that or any other team for two years.

The director sportif (team manager) loses his job, and may not work within pro cycling for the next two years.

The team doctor loses his med licence.

The rider is kept, on contract, on mimimun / retainer wages, and is allowed train with the squad after six months. After a year he can ride again.

That's it. Problem solved. That would more or less stop it dead.
It wont happen, because the people with power all know exactly what the story is, they are used to treating riders like cattle, and few people want to change things.

[Peter Henry]

Phil...As an add on to team punishment should not an "anti scandal" type clause be put in to contracts by sponsors? Meaning that if the team or any individual member of a team screws up all monies..including funds paid in advance for training are automatically refunded?

At the end of the day it all boils down to the cash/kudos of being a winner? :?

[philipMac]

Phil...As an add on to team punishment should not an "anti scandal" type clause be put in to contracts by sponsors? Meaning that if the team or any individual member of a team screws up all monies..including funds paid in advance for training are automatically refunded?

At the end of the day it all boils down to the cash/kudos of being a winner? :?

Well, yeah, I mean, this is sort of what I was thinking with the sponser having to pull out. The thing is, if the money is spent, its gone. You know? Its not like they can go after riders houses and sell them for the money. (Although, if there is no sponser, then there is no team maybe.)

You are right. At the end of the day its about getting up the road with the sponsers logo on your jersey. Winning is nice too.
Cycling to me though is more than that.
Its heroics, roman gladiator stuff to me. Its about thinking, and playing people, and launching attacks on beautiful mountains.

Its very odd the relationship you develop with your body. How you grade the pain, and abstract it. Its difficult to explain. You listen to the pain, learn what pain precedes what pain, You watch your pulse, watch your water intake. You are really cold, about it. Very clinical. You know that certain pain is bad pain. Most is just your normal body chatter.

I cant tell you how much I (still) respect those guys.

[Peter Henry]

Phil...In essence I have a similar admiration for these guys as you, I see the team tactics as "Chess on wheels" it is a magnificent spectacle.

But all this nonsense just devalues the achievements of those amazing individuals already mentioned in this thread...that is the greatest sadness of all this. :?