Knee Down.... nope!

[heathsv65063]

Stupid Knee!!http://upload4.postimage.org/712582/DSC_3253.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/712582/photo_hosting.html)

[keithd]

if you opened your legs (fnarr) a tad more you'd be there!!

nice pic

[heathsv65063]

I cannae reach, captain!! :lol:

[billymcee]

some peeps seem to think if you put your knee doon its cool but in my opinnion it slows you down but it is allso a nice feeling scrapping your sliders on the tarmac :wink:

[kwak zzr]

your over far enuf.

[K]

Don't worry, I didn't even get my knee down on the Nurburgring - but then, truth be told, I wasn't trying and can't really do this 'hanging off' lark.

Scraped both my toes though, so with rearsets on I must have been a fair way over. :D

[heathsv65063]

I find it strange that, like you, toe down, pegs down no probs. Got very nice shaving off right boot. Trying againg at brands on Monday...Wohoo!
then Lydden on Saturday... :twisted:

[Ward8124]

I find it strange that, like you, toe down, pegs down no probs. Got very nice shaving off right boot. Trying againg at brands on Monday...Wohoo!
then Lydden on Saturday... :twisted:

Mate i know how u feel as only till recently i managed to get mine down too....try opening the legs a bit and use your arm to steady things on the tank....worked for me dude!

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You're 'rotating' off the bike, rather than hanging straight off.

Example:

http://www.docsarah.demon.co.uk/chrishairpin2.jpg

[Ward8124]

This is me hanging off like a monkey!

http://upload4.postimage.org/714730/DSCF0030_edited.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/714730/photo_hosting.html)


AS you see it can be done! and yeah i made the same mistake of rotating instead of hanging off before i got me knee down!

[kwak zzr]

you on standard sv d220 tyres ward8124

[Ping]

Seems a mite dangerous if I try to get my knee down... :?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/MzPing/IMG_4748-small.jpg

Is it possible for a shortie? :lol:

The best I've managed at Lydden (only had 1 track day) was a toe down too. :lol:

[Davido]

I can get the bike to near enough the edge of the tyres, but can't hang off to save my life. When I do, I end up going straight and prevent a hazard to anyone walking on pavements. :)

Also, can it be done with the standard dunlops? I'm hearing that they're crap at best.

[kwak zzr]

i'm on the edge of my standad dunlops and still cant get down.

[Carsick]

Of course it can be done with standard dunlops. It's all about technique.

[kwak zzr]

they do feel unsafe at that angle of lean, the back moves around alot. i rode my cousins bandit as stated in another thread with bt014's on and that was stable right to the edge and my technique is the same.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Is it possible for a shortie? :lol:

Yep :D

[Saint Matt]

they do feel unsafe at that angle of lean, the back moves around alot. i rode my cousins bandit as stated in another thread with bt014's on and that was stable right to the edge and my technique is the same.

I think that might be your tyres mate, mine feels ****e, but it;s got **** tyres on at the mo, but then my mates thousand feels stable as anything, with decent tyres on.

[Stig]

It's very easy to get your knee down on the standard rubber. As has been said, it's technique that is needed.

I remember trying to get my knee down on my CBR. I had the fairing scraping the ground but couldn't touch down. Got the right technique and there was no stopping me. :wink:

[Ward8124]

true bits a confidence thing as i cudnt do it on my stocks as i was worried about it going from under me.....changed to BT020 and first round about.....knees down...i tried and tried on the stock just cudnt do it....

[Jelster]

'Tis tru about "the way you hang off".... I can't get my shape right on the 'Blade, but I mannaged to get my knee down on the Gixer OK. I need to take the bike to the track and work on it....

.

[Knaapie]

Try sticking out your knee. You should also try to hang off more with your upper body and put your upper arm on the tank.

Personally I find that the position of the upper body is very important as well in corners and for doing kneedowns.

[heathsv65063]

Thanks for all the advice!!

Went to Brands on the 31 july and got me knee down... (photo's coming soo!)
The advice that worked for me was the upper arm on tank, acting on an anchor.

Knee down around clearways, paddock & druids. Could't quite manage at the 1st left hander....

But I don't care!! :D :D :lol:

[keithd]

Thanks for all the advice!!

Went to Brands on the 31 july and got me knee down... (photo's coming soo!)
The advice that worked for me was the upper arm on tank, acting on an anchor.

Knee down around clearways, paddock & druids. Could't quite manage at the 1st left hander....

But I don't care!! :D :D :lol:

graham hill bend i believe. suprised tho as you got it down on a slower corner ie druids, but not the quicker GH...ah just realised each corner you got your knee down on was a right hander.... :D

[madmalc]

Thanks for all the advice!!

Went to Brands on the 31 july and got me knee down... (photo's coming soo!)
The advice that worked for me was the upper arm on tank, acting on an anchor.

Knee down around clearways, paddock & druids. Could't quite manage at the 1st left hander....

But I don't care!! :D :D :lol:

graham hill bend i believe. suprised tho as you got it down on a slower corner ie druids, but not the quicker GH...ah just realised each corner you got your knee down on was a right hander.... :D

I was looking at my chicken lines and I'm no where near to knee down but everyday my confidence is growing so hopefully it wont be long, but as I was saying looking at my chicken lines and I seem to get further down on my left side, but most do it right.... Am I a freak?

[lukemillar]

I did a poll a while back about this - turned out quite a few people favour left over rights.

If you concerned about chicken strips or knee down for that matter then do a trackday - I guarantee that after1 session you won't have any strips left!

[IanG]

I did a poll a while back about this - turned out quite a few people favour left over rights.

If you concerned about chicken strips or knee down for that matter then do a trackday - I guarantee that after1 session you won't have any strips left!

I can't get me knee down either, seemed to upset the balance of the bike (read felt like I was going to fall off :lol: ) when i tried to get out the seat more and that was after 6 sessions at Croft at end of May.

http://upload4.postimage.org/924631/Ian3b_26_06_2006.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/924631/photo_hosting.html)

If at first you don't succeed......roll on the 31st Aug at Croft and I'll try again!!!

[IanG]

Question: Do I need to get me knee down?

[lukemillar]

Question: Do I need to get me knee down?

I really am no expert here, but your upper body position looks a little odd - Like you're sticking your @rse out, but keeping your upper body over the tank. Someone posted a link to a CBR forum with a chap showing good & bad body position on the bike for cornering - I'll see if I can post it up.

[weazelz]

I can't get me knee down either, seemed to upset the balance of the bike (read felt like I was going to fall off :lol: ) when i tried to get out the seat more and that was after 6 sessions at Croft at end of May.

http://upload4.postimage.org/924631/Ian3b_26_06_2006.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/924631/photo_hosting.html)

If at first you don't succeed......roll on the 31st Aug at Croft and I'll try again!!!

your body position looks fine & you're leant over far enough, you just need to stick your knee out a bit further

this is me at Lydden the other weekend:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i247/Mr_Toad_650/Lydden2006/PICT4178.jpg

just get your knee out as far as you can, really stupidly far, it will feel odd at first, but you'll touch down a lot sooner than you think

oh, & going faster always helps ;-)

[weazelz]

Question: Do I need to get me knee down?

yes. duh

[lukemillar]

Okay here is the article from www.cbr-forum.org.uk, so thanks to them! Please note, this isn't gospel - just an artcile that some people may find helpful.

Riding Position how to, and how not too...!

Guys & Gals,

After much debate about riding position, and how people want to improve their riding, and particulalry their riding in corner, or in their quest to get their knee down, I've had several requests on how to do body position and how not too... So I've got the bike out of the garage (for the first time in 9 months Crying or Very sad) , and taken these piccys.

Now I need to make a few provisos about this article. Firstly, everyone has their own individual riding style, what will feel good too you, etc. I am in no way trying to change this, however as many of you know I'm a very big fan of California Superbike School and have been through the entire course, and additionally completed several day 4 sessions on a 1-2-1 basis. Now if you were to go through the school yourselves, they would overhaul your body position to something similiar to this, so for those of you that can't afford the 1200 quid to go through the entire school programme, you may find this article of use. This will not however, ever replace the school programme, and if you can do it, I'd reccomend you do.

Secondly, this article is only in particularly talking about how to ride fast, either for fast road, or for track days. You couldn't and wouldn't want to ride like this for normal everyday riding, so please don't try as you'll be very knackered. Also riding as shown properly, is very hard work, so be warned.....

Ok, we're going to split this article into two stages. Stage 1 will be showing the common riding mistakes many riders make. I will post photos to describe the problem, pointing out specific areas that are wrong. Following on from this, I will post pictures on good body position and photos showing that too. Hopefull everyone will be able to tell the difference..... Smile

Bad riding position

http://upload4.postimage.org/924981/position1.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/924981/photo_hosting.html)

This image shows most riders normal riding position, or at least those who are fairly new to riding. Please note on this image two fundamental problems. 1) Body not right back to the rear of the seat, and secondly poor foot position, with the balls of the feet not being placed on the pegs.

http://upload4.postimage.org/924990/position2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/924990/photo_hosting.html)

Picture 2 shows how many riders ride right upto the tank. This position is fine for normal road riding, however, when you lean off, tends to make riders twist around the tank.

http://upload4.postimage.org/924995/position3.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/924995/photo_hosting.html)

Picture 3 shows tank rotation. The rider moves body to the side, in this picture to the right, in order to be able to lean off. Rider rotates around tank, and does not have a good grip on outside of the tank, specifically the cutout is not used. See the large space between the leg and the tank.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925011/position4.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925011/photo_hosting.html)

Consequences of poor upper body position as seen from behind. (please note I have over exaggerated this a little but is still fairly typical of many riders). Rider is rotating around the tank, and has poor grip on bike with legs, is therefore required to hold onto bars quite hard. Note how twisted the rider body is, which puts unwanted pressure on inside bar

http://upload4.postimage.org/925019/position5.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925019/photo_hosting.html)

Poor twisted body position as seen from the front. Note how the rider has only slightly bent forearms? This means the rider is holding onto that inner (right hand here) bar too frimly, and is putting in an unneccesary countersteer.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925025/position6.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925025/photo_hosting.html)

Badly positioned foot. (well not really, but there is a point here). Because the rider here here is not hooked into the tank on the outer side, the rider is taking a very large percentage of their weight on the inside peg. This usually results in the rider having acchy knees.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925029/position7.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925029/photo_hosting.html)

Picture of outer foot. Note that rider isn't sat on balls of feet on peg, and because the rider has no grip onto the tank, is carrying virtually no weight.

Good Body positioning

http://upload4.postimage.org/925043/position8.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925043/photo_hosting.html)

Picture shows correct body position for down straights etc. Unfortuantely for me, I'm 6'1" which makes my life hard. Please note here however, firstly rider is positioned to back of the seat, and secondly, rider has balls of feet on the pegs.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925054/position9.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925054/photo_hosting.html)

Picture shows riding gripping the tank for braking etc. Is possibly one of the hardest things to achieve, but is crucial for proper braking, and riding position. Also note the gap between rider and tank, rider is sat to back of seat, and has about 1 pack of ciggies between rider and tank.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925066/position10.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925066/photo_hosting.html)

Picture shows good body positioned whilst leaned off the bike. Specifically important points to note are a) body sat right back in seat, b), forearm bent to 90 degrees, c) foot position on peg (though I have more detailed shot of this below.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925076/position11.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925076/photo_hosting.html)

This picture shows good body position whilst leant off from the front of the bike. A general rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the chin bar of your helmet in the bottom of the mirror. Also note that the forearm is straight and at 90 degress to the body.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925098/position12.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925098/photo_hosting.html)

Image shoes two things, importantly the body is in a straight line, which means that the riders inner arm is not putting any unwanted countersteering through the bars. Image also shows the correct amount of **** of the seat, i.e half your ****.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925103/position13.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925103/photo_hosting.html)

Image shows correct body position, and importantly both flat forearm, 90 degrees to the body, but also outer forearm, resting on the tank.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925112/position14.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925112/photo_hosting.html)

Image show same shot, but taken from above. note forearm resting on the top of the tank.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925117/position15.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925117/photo_hosting.html)

Image shows correct knee position wedged into the tank. This is probably one of the most important aspects of leaning off, and without this, the rider will take either large amounts of weight through either the bars, (which is negative to the bikes handling, and often the cause of ineffective steering in tightening corners), or through the inside foot, (which gives achy knees)

http://upload4.postimage.org/925120/position16.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925120/photo_hosting.html)

Image shows the correct foot position for your outside foot. Note how it is twisted so that you can power through your foot, and wedge your knee into the side of the tank. Your outside foot, should take a large percentage of your body weight when cornering.
This is only possible through correct foot placement, and having your knee wedged against the tank..

http://upload4.postimage.org/925127/position17.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925127/photo_hosting.html)

Image shows how rider has his inside foot positioned. Note that the sole of his foot is wedged against the side of the frame/footpeg, and that he has only have a small amount of weight through this foot. Rider used to have foot on the end of the peg, which is also acceptable, however, he went through toesliders to quickly due to corner speeds and lean angles, so CSS moved him to here.

http://upload4.postimage.org/925131/position18.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925131/photo_hosting.html)

Image shows same foot position, but from behind, to show how he wedges his foot against the pegs/frame. Also notice that rider is still on the balls of feet, to aid with feeling..

http://upload4.postimage.org/925137/position19.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/925137/photo_hosting.html)

This is really the ultimate test of whether a rider is locked into the bike properly or not. Note the rider has no hands on the bars at all, and is using the outside leg and knee wedged into the tank, plus some weight on the inner foot. The rider in this picture is leaned of the bike correctly. (Important Saftey Note: please, please do not try to attempt this whilst riding, if you do, and you crash or fall off, please don't blame me. This is a static exercise only)

I hope that everyone find this article useful,

Happy cornering.
[/u]

[weazelz]

superbike magazine's guide:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3487092492202946442

[Davido]

I still cannot get my knee down for the bloody life of me. I've scraped my right peg, but whenever I hang off the bike just wants to stay in a straight line. I think I'm also a culprit of this twisting round the tank thing.

Also, does anyone find the bike easier to lean into corners with a pillion? I think the bike feels more stable, provided they still still. :)

[DoubleD]

Okay here is the article from www.cbr-forum.org.uk, so thanks to them! Please note, this isn't gospel - just an artcile that some people may find helpful.

Riding Position how to, and how not too...!

....FANTASTIC WRITE UP and PICS....

I hope that everyone find this article useful,

Happy cornering.
[/u]


I would like to say a BIG thank you for that write up, That has really shown a newbie like me were I'm going wrong... not for scraping my knee but on how to take corners a lot better and body position.

Thanks lukemillar

[r4ce_e3nd]

they have told me to push/lean your shoulder to the inside of the curve... this helped me to increase the speed of my curves.

here a little picture of me at Croix en Ternois in France:

http://aeltermanwouter.googlepages.com/Croix04.jpg

here I don't lean enough, but I'm working on it... (look to the guy behind me on the R6!)

[IanG]

Thanks for that Luke, its a fantastic write up. Lots to take in.
Looks like i've been twisting around the tank.

Hopefully I'll be as good as the riders on that vidio. cheers weazelz.

[kwak zzr]

can i go back the the "sv standard tyre thing?" because everytime i go around a traffic island for the knee down the back tyre looses traction whilst cranked right over :( and starts to slip move and buck :? (this gives me a brown trouser moment everytime) now before everyone shouts at me i'm well aware its prob my riding style but those plastic tyres dont give me any confidence.

[weazelz]

get your tyres nice & warm

having 32psi in them helps too :-)

[madmalc]

I would sya I agree with the hole tyre situation because mine locks up sometimes when I back off the revs but its only when they're cold and the road is wet. But I read all the articles on here and watched the super bike video, then I went for a rideand tried to keep in mind what I had read and seen and I found my riding seemed a lot better and smoother and now I have a little more confidence in the bike and the tyres, got my chicken strips down to about 3mm either side so I cant be that far off knee down now... just going to keep taking my time.

[heathsv650]

I'm back after 'modifying the bike at druids.

Managed to get knee, @rse and all other things down as well!!

[kwak zzr]

thats bad news :( long as your ok :wink:

[heathsv650]

Yeah, I escaped with damaged hand (Gloves were superb!)

Ruined my leathers, but nice to see they did their job :shock:

Bike is being rebuilt, hopefully in time for new season.
:D

[northwind]

I find it strange that, like you, toe down, pegs down no probs.

That's the thing... If you're hanging off and getting a load of weight over, you're less likely to touch the pegs down as the bike'll be more upright for the same corner speed :) I'm not very mobile in the seat any more and I touch the pegs down waaaay more than I used to. It's all fun and games till I get one stuck in a drain :)

[tricky]

Seems a mite dangerous if I try to get my knee down... :?

Is it possible for a shortie? :lol:

The best I've managed at Lydden (only had 1 track day) was a toe down too. :lol:

Danny Pedrosa seems to manage it and hes 5'2" :wink: