View Full Version : Drug Re-Classification
This will be interesting if it changes - seems to be good they are putting some thought into classifying drugs based on harm and not on penalty received
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5230006.stm
Extract on the re-classification>>
There are three class A drugs in the top five of the system, as well as one Class B and alcohol.
Tobacco is listed as the ninth most harmful drug and cannabis, a class C drug, comes in at number 11.
Perhaps most surprising is the presence of two Class A drugs - ecstasy and LSD - in the bottom six.
This places them well below tobacco and alcohol and a number of class B and C drugs.
Nice to see alcohol and tobacco recognised in this. And a more scientific approach taken.
Though I think it could send out the wrong message by saying drugs, which can still have harmful effects, are ok because theyre not as harmful as other drugs.
I also am wondering about who they tested to get these results - if it was normal drinkers Im not quite sure that alcohol would be where it is on the table. If they only tested alcoholics then yes its about right, but that doesnt apply to everyone - particularly when another body is recommending a glass of red wine a day to promote health. :?
Something official that drinking is more harmfull the pot.....
Yet we're back on the nice taxable drug (drink and fags) issue again arn't we :lol:
Complications and effects with every drug you ever take. (beer, wine, pot, heroin, E's etc).
So, "theoretically", say if I were to smoke say 3 joints per day, does that mean im at less of a risk than if i were to drink 5 pints of beer per day? (not saying EITHER are right, just saying)... :wink: Yet drinkings legal, and pot isn't?
For a bike riding point of view all drugs have devastating effects.
I can't ride my bike after I smoke a joint, my spatial perception is completely fecked.
After a single beer I'm waaay too confidant for my own survival.
On special K however I fall asleep at the first set of lights and somebody else picks my bike up and rides away.
Therefore all drugs are bad...
On special K however I fall asleep.............
Try Grape Nuts or Frosties - much better :thumbsup:
I'm I the only one who misses Sooty Stars? :?
timwilky
31-07-06, 11:14 AM
You have to question the harm element. There have been a few examples of sudden death to Ecstasy users whereas sudden death resulting from a one off pint or cigarette is probably extremely rare.
Also the increasing evidence of paranoia resulting from cannabis use is worrying, the problem being that mental health problems are difficult to detect in the early stages etc. and then to associate it with a cause must be problematic.
Personally I would like to see personal use of all drugs decrimalised to the extent that the organised crime behind the importation and distribution is robbed of a customer base, those in need of treatment are recognised and helped and we clear our jails of the victims of this evil trade who are forced to commit crime to pay for a habit.
remove the trade, supply clean and managed treatment to users and I bet there is a real decrease in petty crime.
For a bike riding point of view all drugs have devastating effects.
I can't ride my bike after I smoke a joint, my spatial perception is completely fecked.
After a single beer I'm waaay too confidant for my own survival.
Don't think anyone would even think about drinking or smoking before or during (pit stops) riding. Ever!!!! Madness.
Carsick
31-07-06, 11:18 AM
You have to question the harm element. There have been a few examples of sudden death to Ecstasy users whereas sudden death resulting from a one off pint or cigarette is probably extremely rare.
True, but to put those numbers into perspective, the sudden death rate for aspirin users is higher per tablet taken.
I'll admit, that in general, e is taken by younger people than aspirin, but it is still a valid point.
The other aspect of ecstasy related deaths are almost exclusively due to inexperience.
For a bike riding point of view all drugs have devastating effects.
I can't ride my bike after I smoke a joint, my spatial perception is completely fecked.
After a single beer I'm waaay too confidant for my own survival.
Don't think anyone would even think about drinking or smoking before or during (pit stops) riding. Ever!!!! Madness.
Maybe not on here, but it happens.
Personally I would like to see personal use of all drugs decrimalised to the extent that the organised crime behind the importation and distribution is robbed of a customer base, those in need of treatment are recognised and helped and we clear our jails of the victims of this evil trade who are forced to commit crime to pay for a habit.
remove the trade, supply clean and managed treatment to users and I bet there is a real decrease in petty crime.
And illegal growing (thus saving police time) and illegal dealing (to an aspect), and as you say, save the prisons for the real scum (i understand most big time dealers would be scum anyway) such as peodos, armed robbers, murders etc..
Just look at Amsterdam... Don't see all the weirdos and coked up freaks around the cafes, just the red light district.
In the cafes you only seem to get people wanting to relax for a bit, then go on their merry way. :)
Carsick
31-07-06, 11:21 AM
For a bike riding point of view all drugs have devastating effects.
I can't ride my bike after I smoke a joint, my spatial perception is completely fecked.
After a single beer I'm waaay too confidant for my own survival.
Don't think anyone would even think about drinking or smoking before or during (pit stops) riding. Ever!!!! Madness.
I think you'll find quite alot of people will have one pint and still ride.
I know everybody has their views on this (and no doubt they'll come out) but this isn't really a drugs and driving type issue. There are plenty of drugs available over the counter which will impair your driving.
Maybe not on here, but it happens.
Madness!!!!!!
I suppose thats a bit like the "no leathers" type people who go round wearing shorts and a vest..... Most of us frown on it, but many still do it.
I personnally would never consider mixing any kind of drug whilst riding.
Carsick
31-07-06, 11:24 AM
Oh, another point. Tim, you seem to have this image in your head that the only people who take drugs are junkies. That is a long way from the truth.
I would suggest that the majority of recreational drug use in Britain is of non-addictive substances or quantities/regularlty where addiction is not an issue.
The health/social consequences of that use is another matter, however.
edit: just reread and I seem to have added a prejudice to your post that probably wasn't there.
Flamin_Squirrel
31-07-06, 11:37 AM
Nice to see alcohol and tobacco recognised in this.
I'm not sure it is. I mean, I know where you're coming from (nice to show up government hypocracy), but I think it might give out the message that some illegal drugs are now ok, because they're less harmful than legal ones.
Dicky Ticker
31-07-06, 11:40 AM
No drink or drugs while driving???????
I enjoy stopping for a dose of nicotine and cafine and admit to becoming an anti-social outcast :lol:
andyaikido
31-07-06, 11:58 AM
For a bike riding point of view all drugs have devastating effects.
I can't ride my bike after I smoke a joint, my spatial perception is completely fecked.
After a single beer I'm waaay too confidant for my own survival.
On special K however I fall asleep at the first set of lights and somebody else picks my bike up and rides away.
Therefore all drugs are bad...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice to see alcohol and tobacco recognised in this.
I'm not sure it is. I mean, I know where you're coming from (nice to show up government hypocracy), but I think it might give out the message that some illegal drugs are now ok, because they're less harmful than legal ones.
Erm isnt that what I went on to say in my next paragraph?
Though I think it could send out the wrong message by saying drugs, which can still have harmful effects, are ok because theyre not as harmful as other drugs. :wink: :P :lol:
Ok, Ok I didnt say legal/illegal. :P
Daimo - Amsterdam isnt the happy cannabis nirvana you think it is. Maybe having lived there I got to appreciate the downside to an overly tolerant society - while it attracted the cannabis users it has generally attracted more of the heavy drug users with the downside that that brings in terms of crime rates soaring in some areas. Well it was more evident in 'Dam than in Utrecht where Ive also lived.
As someone has mentioned, Im still not convinced theyve taken long term mental health problems into account with some drugs tbh - particularly LSD. Just look at the old 60s/70s hippies that took some bad acid and tell me thats the least harmful drug. :?
northwind
31-07-06, 12:02 PM
I'm not sure it is. I mean, I know where you're coming from (nice to show up government hypocracy), but I think it might give out the message that some illegal drugs are now ok, because they're less harmful than legal ones.
That's the message that's sent out by having tobacco legal but cannabis illegal :) "This carcinogenic, highly addictive substance is just fine and dandy provided you're over 16."
andyaikido
31-07-06, 12:02 PM
You have to question the harm element. There have been a few examples of sudden death to Ecstasy users whereas sudden death resulting from a one off pint or cigarette is probably extremely rare.
Also the increasing evidence of paranoia resulting from cannabis use is worrying, the problem being that mental health problems are difficult to detect in the early stages etc. and then to associate it with a cause must be problematic.
Personally I would like to see personal use of all drugs decrimalised to the extent that the organised crime behind the importation and distribution is robbed of a customer base, those in need of treatment are recognised and helped and we clear our jails of the victims of this evil trade who are forced to commit crime to pay for a habit.
remove the trade, supply clean and managed treatment to users and I bet there is a real decrease in petty crime.
I agree, people are going take drugs no matter what so why not make it as safe as possible? If the government propsed this however it would be massively unpopular with the kinds of people who have influence over MP's, Lords, etc.
Flamin_Squirrel
31-07-06, 12:18 PM
I'm not sure it is. I mean, I know where you're coming from (nice to show up government hypocracy), but I think it might give out the message that some illegal drugs are now ok, because they're less harmful than legal ones.
That's the message that's sent out by having tobacco legal but cannabis illegal :) "This carcinogenic, highly addictive substance is just fine and dandy provided you're over 16."
:lol:
True! Obviously you couldn't bad smoking overnight though, which is why the government is doing it step by step.
A point on nasty dealers. While drugs are illegal, they will always be there and you'll never get rid of them. If you start to 'win' the war on drugs and reduce trafficing, demand gets greater than supply and the price goes up. This not only makes it more profitable for smugglers/dealers, but also makes their jobs easier as they can make as much money for moving smaller quantities.
timwilky
31-07-06, 12:19 PM
Oh, another point. Tim, you seem to have this image in your head that the only people who take drugs are junkies. That is a long way from the truth.
I would suggest that the majority of recreational drug use in Britain is of non-addictive substances or quantities/regularlty where addiction is not an issue.
The health/social consequences of that use is another matter, however.
Far from it, the biggest drug problem is probably those poor unfortunates addicted to prescription drugs, they whilst addicts would never think of themselves as such. As for recreational use I don't particularly like the term and would much rather describe someone as an occasional non dependant user. In my early 20s I had the occasional spliff, the result being as a non smoker I became a 30 a day addict and it took me 10 years to quit. Would I have a toot on a spliff if passed my way these days, No thank you.
I was not trying to be condescending in my post on this topic. If someone wants to do a line of coke or an E, it is upto them. But if they then decide to become an anti social crack head and have to fund their drugs through crime it then becomes societies problem. The problem being how do you then differentiate between recreational drug use and problem use. How can you tell one guy he is a disgrace and clean your act up and the next guy well done on bringing in that contract, and turn a blind eye to his recreational use.
I am well aware that to many users, they do not view their use as a problem. I have however seen many kids sat in their cars having a smoke and then half an hour later driving down the road. They don't view it as a problem. As a parent/grandparent I certainly do.
Daimo - Amsterdam isnt the happy cannabis nirvana you think it is. Maybe having lived there I got to appreciate the downside to an overly tolerant society - while it attracted the cannabis users it has generally attracted more of the heavy drug users with the downside that that brings in terms of crime rates soaring in some areas. Well it was more evident in 'Dam than in Utrecht where Ive also lived.
You have a basis for a good opinion, but do you not think thats more towards the bad aspects of the RLD as thats the rotty nasty areas. Every single coffee shop i venture into (5 years in a row, but I go to the good ones) never have had any issues both inside or around the direct area.
Coffee shops cannot be blamed for people taking harder drugs. Walk down anywhere else to be offered Coke and E's by the looky looky men.... That has nothing to do with cannabis. Cannabis is legal, other drugs arn't, so its no different from going out in London and bumping into drugged up chavs who've been out raving all night, or just go into any big club to be offered the same drug services that you get on a street around the RLD.
If you knew about weed in the area, you'd know 85% of the good respected CS are outside the vacinity of Damn sqare up to RLD.... Not within the grotty RLD area iteself.
I blame more prostitution than cannabis for this, cannabis isn't that kind of a drug.... More likley to be pushed on by the pimps.
I agree, people are going take drugs no matter what so why not make it as safe as possible? If the government propsed this however it would be massively unpopular with the kinds of people who have influence over MP's, Lords, etc.
Aye, you mean the rich snobs of the country.
Little do they know, their rich children are the worst druggies of all as they have the money to do it...
In my "town" normal school, there were hardly any drugs, you had the odd few of course, but it wasn't major.
Now compare that to two friends I had who both went to different public schools (one being Sevenoaks, so not cheap) and I could have got anything I wanted whenever I wanted. Most of the kids were high on something (at the time, can't comment now). This is a posh school, middle of no-where really, compared to my town located, rude boy hard boy filled school........
Carsick
31-07-06, 12:35 PM
In my early 20s I had the occasional spliff, the result being as a non smoker I became a 30 a day addict and it took me 10 years to quit. Would I have a toot on a spliff if passed my way these days, No thank you.
To me, that says that you recognised a weakness in yourself and now deal with it in the easiest way (abstention)
I used to have the occasional spliff/bong/pipe/traffic cone and never became a smoker, much less addicted to nicotine.
For what it's worth, I gave up cannabis because I found it boring and always wanted to do some work afterwards, and inevitably found that I was incapable.
I do agree in general about the problems of driving and smoking, but there is evidence that cannabis isn't nearly as bad as previously thought. That would be a different thread, though.
As for the difference between a recreational use and problem use. It's a tricky one, obviously, but I think a starting point as far as the criminal aspect is concerned is whether the person needs to commit a crime (beyond the act of buying and possessing) in order to supply their habit. I would suggest that dealing a few pills/eighths to friends wouldn't qualify in this case, but dealing to strangers would.
Separating the types of use in terms of social damage is more difficult, since that would have to take into account any psychological effects of the drugs on the long or short term and other factors like how capable the user is of maintaining a job and normal relationships (whatever that means)
Couldn't find cake in the list of drugs :?
Chris Morris thought it was pretty bad
In my early 20s I had the occasional spliff, the result being as a non smoker I became a 30 a day addict and it took me 10 years to quit. Would I have a toot on a spliff if passed my way these days, No thank you.
To me, that says that you recognised a weakness in yourself and now deal with it in the easiest way (abstention)
I used to have the occasional spliff/bong/pipe/traffic cone and never became a smoker, much less addicted to nicotine.
For what it's worth, I gave up cannabis because I found it boring and always wanted to do some work afterwards, and inevitably found that I was incapable.
Agreed, but i keep mine under control (well as best you can ha ha). I never mix work and smoking, i never mix riding and smoking etc.
Basically, i do my day, and when im home, everythings done and im not going out, i like to sit in my garden, stream and mini waterfalls running between my ponds, frogs hopping around, and have a smoke....
I don't deal, i don't push, i just like a smoke.
But in the laws eyes, im a criminal.........
Meanwhile, chav boy is off breaking into cars and he'll get away with that offence should it go to court. 9 times out of 10 with a drug offence, you won't........
Can't do anything but....
:lol: :lol:
Why peole feel the need to take drugs in the 1st place is beyond me.
Carsick
31-07-06, 01:02 PM
Why peole feel the need to take drugs in the 1st place is beyond me.
'shrugs' people say the same thing about bikes as well.
Why peole feel the need to take drugs in the 1st place is beyond me.
'shrugs' people say the same thing about bikes as well.True, but my bike is a way of getting to work and beating the system. Drugs to me, fills something missing in peoples lives
You have a basis for a good opinion, but do you not think thats more towards the bad aspects of the RLD as thats the rotty nasty areas. Every single coffee shop i venture into (5 years in a row, but I go to the good ones) never have had any issues both inside or around the direct area.
Coffee shops cannot be blamed for people taking harder drugs. Walk down anywhere else to be offered Coke and E's by the looky looky men.... That has nothing to do with cannabis. Cannabis is legal, other drugs arn't, so its no different from going out in London and bumping into drugged up chavs who've been out raving all night, or just go into any big club to be offered the same drug services that you get on a street around the RLD.
If you knew about weed in the area, you'd know 85% of the good respected CS are outside the vacinity of Damn sqare up to RLD.... Not within the grotty RLD area iteself.
I blame more prostitution than cannabis for this, cannabis isn't that kind of a drug.... More likley to be pushed on by the pimps.
I dont blame the coffee shops or prostitution tbh. I think it lies inherently with the extremely tolerant attitude that Amsterdam has. If you travel anywhere outside of 'Dam you will find the rest of the Netherlands extremely different and less tolerant.
The problem ultimately is once you start being tolerant of something there will always be people who think you have drawn the line too short or you should include something else.
The areas Im talking about being affected by these crimes arent the grotty ones either. It really isnt confined to those areas as you suppose above. Trust me, I know this having lived in several "nice" areas and seeing the results of said crimes daily.
You say cannabis isnt to blame - but to some degree it is. Or are you dismissing the wealth of evidence that suggests that for the majority that have progressed to harder drugs cannabis or even smoking has been the gateway drug?
Simply because you arent addicted doesnt mean to say that it isnt dangerous for someone whose body has a biochemistry predisposed to addiction [theres a wealth of evidence on that to explain why some people simply dont get addicted while others do].
Carsick
31-07-06, 01:12 PM
Why peole feel the need to take drugs in the 1st place is beyond me.
'shrugs' people say the same thing about bikes as well.True, but my bike is a way of getting to work and beating the system. Drugs to me, fills something missing in peoples lives
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Maybe bikes do the same for some people.
The U rating may prevent me from saying much more, but there's a simple fact that people wouldn't do drugs if they were crap. They might not be worth the cost, whether social, physical, mental or financial, but there's always something that appeals.
Weed is NOT an addictive drug.
The process, the lifestlye for some CAN be addictive, the fags used can cause an addiction, but weed as a drug is NOT addictive.
You say about the evidence, but tbh, this is all branding.
If your a scummy dosser, chances are, u'll progress as their lifes usually doesn't involve to much excitement or interest. Chances are, u'd end up hooked on some kind of drug anyway, beer, coke, whatever... Weed cannot be blamed for this. Nasty, but just go down your local council estate and check the general area and people out.
As said, i've smoked for quite a few years, i've said it before, i understand the "possible" effects, but i have no interest in other drugs whatsoever. I've tried coke before, found it to be horrible. Sniffing all night, dreadfully expensive and also an ADDICTIVE drug. My bike, i could "possibly" die, its not fact, theres a chance of it, does this mean I shouldn't ride my bike again?
I've got no feeling at all ever to move onto something harder. TBH, end of the day, some people have no tollerence for it, some others don't mind, some others don't care.
Your NEVER going to please everyone.
fizzwheel
31-07-06, 01:25 PM
I used to work with a guy who was a heavy cannabis user in his youth.
He was absoloutly hopeless at remembering anything. He'd go to site and forget what he had gone there for. He'd forget tools and generally amble around until you directed him in what it was you wanted him to do.
Yes you could argue it was because he wasnt very good at organising himself. But his words not mine "I smoked to much and it mucked my brain up" Now I'm not saying that this is true of everybody. However I've seen some of my friends turn extremely paranoid through over indulgence.
Theres a young lad in our office who likes to indulge himself at weekends, amphetamines mostly. He either comes in on monday morning either complelety up and hyper or he is in the depths of darkest depression. Hes been signed off work for long periods of time and somedays he cant even get up in the mornings to get to work. Hes not far off the biggest b*ll*cking of his life and is on the rocky road to being given the sack because his time keeping is p*ss poor ( I'm taking 4 or 5 hours late for his shift, He cant concentrate when he is here and makes mistakes because he cant focus on his job )
I think the trouble is that alot of people don't know when to stop and I'm including alcohol and ciggarettes in this to. I think also that having an addictive personality has alot to do with it. I also personally think that canabis is addictive. Not the drug itself but the feeling you get from it.
I dont agree that canabis however will lead people down the road to harder drugs. IMHO it just means that if they are curious they know how to get hold of harder stuff more easily.
Weed is NOT an addictive drug.
The process, the lifestlye for some CAN be addictive, the fags used can cause an addiction, but weed as a drug is NOT addictive.
As said, i've smoked for quite a few years, i've said it before, i understand the "possible" effects, but i have no interest in other drugs whatsoever. I've tried coke before, found it to be horrible. Sniffing all night, dreadfully expensive and also an ADDICTIVE drug. My bike, i could "possibly" die, its not fact, theres a chance of it, does this mean I shouldn't ride my bike again?
I've got no feeling at all ever to move onto something harder. TBH, end of the day, some people have no tollerence for it, some others don't mind, some others don't care.
Your NEVER going to please everyone.
:roll:
Where did I say weed was addictive? In fact in the last part I covered that it would be the person who becomes addicted to the high and needs more that progresses because there is a wealth of evidence to suggest their body chemistry is predisposed to it. Just because yours isnt doesnt mean its not dangerous to someone who is.
The fact is no matter how much you try and justify it, cannabis has been a gateway drug for a lot of people. If it didnt have that effect do you think it would be illegal? I dont. Because you are lucky and can handle it doesnt mean to say others can. Because you dont feel the need to use anything else doesnt mean others can say no too.
northwind
31-07-06, 01:31 PM
I dont agree that canabis however will lead people down the road to harder drugs. IMHO it just means that if they are curious they know how to get hold of harder stuff more easily.
Yup... And if it was legal and available over the counter, that wouldn't be an issue :) Y
our example's well made, but 2 things... One is that the traits you describe are often found in the sort of individual who becomes a massive weed smoker even before they start on it- it's a compatible personality thing to some extent I think. A highly driven, efficient, ambitious person is fundamentally less likely to get seriously into weed in the first place, whereas a laid-back person is moer likely to find it suits their overall style.
The other, is that alcohol abuse has far more serious effects over a shorter timescale, and often leaves people not just impaired but utterly incapable of working... Not to mention having more antisocial impacts. Now, I know lesser of two evils isn't a good argument, but if the expense of policing cannabis use was removed, and the product was taxed, that'd pay for a formiddable amount of addiction intervention and rehab.
Carsick
31-07-06, 01:35 PM
I think the trouble is that alot of people don't know when to stop and I'm including alcohol and ciggarettes in this to.
That is true enough, beyond argument, I think.
As for the gateway drug stuff, I would agree, there is alot of evidence that smoking/cannabis can be a gateway drug. It's all to do with pushing boundaries. Addictive personality or not, alot of people do work like that. Once you've had some pot, what difference is a bit of e, once you've had some e, what difference is a bit of coke, once you've had some coke, what difference is crack and so on until you're injecting three times a day just to feel normal.
It does happen and it always will, just not for everybody.
I personally think that attempting to guage actual levels of harm is a very good start. Ok, it might be seen to be encouraging drug use, but I tend to be of the view that people will try stuff if they want to, regardless of legality or perceived health hazards.
I would tend to agree with Tim on the getting it cleaned up side.
timwilky
31-07-06, 01:37 PM
The problem with drugs is the assumption that all drugs are bad and therefore so are the users.
Carsick
31-07-06, 01:38 PM
The problem with drugs is the assumption that all drugs are bad and therefore so are the users.
Well said, but I don't think it's the only problem. :wink:
northwind
31-07-06, 01:42 PM
It's all to do with pushing boundaries. Addictive personality or not, alot of people do work like that. Once you've had some pot, what difference is a bit of e, once you've had some e, what difference is a bit of coke, once you've had some coke, what difference is crack and so on until you're injecting three times a day just to feel normal.
Yup... Another argument for legalisation that, in my book. Pot's illegal, but you know it's less harmful than fags or beer, so people don't take the illegality seriously. Then that gets passed onto more serious drugs- well, you're already a law-breaking drug user, it's only a wee bit further. That effect wouldn't occur if it were legalised (instead of merely decriminalised, as it more or less is here)
It's similiar to inappropriate speed limits- if you have a 30 limit that you go down daily at 40 because it's clearly inappropriate, then you're likely to not take the next 30 seriously either, even though it might be a slower road. Is the solution to clamp down on speeding on the first 30, or is it to raise that limit and remove the factor that's undermining the whole process?
The fact is no matter how much you try and justify it, cannabis has been a gateway drug for a lot of people. If it didnt have that effect do you think it would be illegal? I dont. Because you are lucky and can handle it doesnt mean to say others can. Because you dont feel the need to use anything else doesnt mean others can say no too.
Maybe I've misread the context then?
Aye, I agree with that. I had a few really bad years in my life, then my parents split, i was torn between two woment etc. I started smoking, and i will swear it did help me by, not becuase I forget, but it gave me more time to sit down and really think about everything. I continued to smoke as I enjoyed it. I cleared my worries years ago, but still enjoy a joint, as said above in my methods, but it makes me a criminal, for sitting in my own garden.
As some people have said, with EVERY thing in life, moderation is the key.
Also, to be considered as a "medium" cannabis user, you smoke up to and around 14 joins per day. TO be a MEDIUM user (taken off a respected newspaper, we have the clipping still).... 14!!!!!!!!! Bugger me, my throat wouldn't allow me to smoke that many per day...
Thing is, i'd happily take part in tests given if they were fair to gauge some proper test results, but thus far, i've not heard of anything other than
Drugs are bad
weed smokers are all dossers
hippy druggies (im no hippy thankyou)
No-ones actaully bothering to look into it properly. Its being brushed under the carpet opposed to being looked at properly to get some proper results?
Xerbraski
31-07-06, 02:32 PM
Me and my mate pete have smoked dope for pretty much every day for the past 13 years or so, we do like a nice smoke.
What do we do when smoking?!
We sit in his shed (sometimes upto 5 hours), drink tea and biscuits listen to music, sometimes classical, sometimes pink floyd.
We also discuss politics, life, philosophy there isn't a bad streak in us, both of us have no criminal records and both drink very little alchohol.
My parents went to Amsterdam last week and brough me back some dope.
My parents are both hard-working, honest law abiding citizens (apart from the drug smuggling thing), they've been to Amsterdam 4 times now and are going again next month and will get me some more.
The government won't make cannabis legal as it makes the common man 'think' governments don't like their citizens to think/discuss politics etc.
Thats where the paranoia comes from with dope (makes you think deep depending on your mindset) governments don't like that do they, people 'thinking'.
I've never heard of anyone fighting, raping, beating his wife, shooting, stabbing, vandalising, dying etc etc etc purley because he/she was stoned..
Alchohol on the other hand....
Also, with dope you know yourself when youve had enough and still have control of your senses and morals FACT!!!
And sometimes when i'm stoned I like to watch the insects and nature in the garden and learn about them because its nice!!!
Sometimes I may even read good books when stoned and learn stuff.
If it wasn't for cannabis/hemp there would of been no first voyages to the americas, or any other new-found-lands because there would of been nothing to make the sails, rope or rigging with... And absolutley no Rizla paint schemes!!!
I don't care what class a drug is, weather it's legal or not because i'm going to smoke it anyway, 10 spliffs a day isn't unusual for me or my mate.
The only thing I regret about smoking dope is that it got me hooked on fags.
I'm not into any other drug except cannabis, not into cocaine or anything, never tried it, don't want to either.
Though I did try LSD once, won't take it again though, not because of a bad trip or anything, just, I know what it's like now and was just curious at the time.
Bearing in mind there are no recorded deaths from LSD poisoning.
Even the guy that discovered LSD took somthing like 2000 times whats on a tab and survived with no side effects, not that i'm saying it cant effect your metal health though, thats that 'mindset' thing again.
You will never ever ever ever, be rid of illegal drugs it's what governments/militia even contries depend on to run their countrys etc, Russia, Afghanistan, Columbia etc are countrys practicaly run on drug money, and theres allways someone who will sell it a bit cheaper than the next man.
Not to mention how our western governments use it to manipulate other poorer countrys. The whole thing stinks!!!!
Though saying that, the only way to be rid of illegal drugs is to be rid of all the mafia/millitia in the world, but seem as who lots of Eastern countrys are run by mafia or millitia thats not gonna happen is it.
There, I've finished now...
What do we do when smoking?!
listen to pink floyd.
:lol: Comfortably Numb?? Massive Attack is also good.
What, adrenaline isn't on the list? Thank goodness for that :lol: .
.
Carsick
31-07-06, 02:41 PM
He took alot more than 2000 times a normal tab. Even tabs can vary by up to 3 orders of magnitude difference in potency.
I think you have a slightly idealised view of cannabis and a potentially paranoid view of the government (the second isn't necessarily a bad thing) but you're right on an important point. Stoned people don't start fights or cause very many other anti-social problems.
Xerbraski
31-07-06, 02:44 PM
What do we do when smoking?!
listen to pink floyd.
:lol: Comfortably Numb?? Massive Attack is also good.
Hehe yeah, got a massive attack album somewhere.
Though i do like to listen to the floyds Meddle album, Pompeii, Animals or atom heart mother when stoned, Alans psychadelic breakfast is good!!
I forgot to mention we somtimes listen to William Shatner and Leonard Nimoys tunes for a laugh. Lucy in the sky, Rocket man and mr tambourine man are good.
I think you have a slightly idealised view of cannabis
Yes, I suppose I can't argue with you about that, being a smoker I'm bound to be a little biast towards dope.
But don't get me wrong, there is a hell of a lot of bad things about dope.
It can ruin your motivation, your health, it can and does make you paranoid.
Im not sure if it was you who said before "you got bored with it".
There are times myself I'd like to pack it in because it gets a bit boring, especially if you smoke everyday it can kinda stagnate your life a bit, you never really achieve as much as you should.
One of the biggest regrets in my life is smoking dope as it got me hooked on fags.
I think the thing with dope or drugs in general is 'what they give with one hand, they take with the other'
Peace and flowers.
I think you have a slightly idealised view of cannabis and a potentially paranoid view of the government (the second isn't necessarily a bad thing) but you're right on an important point. Stoned people don't start fights or cause very many other anti-social problems.
That'll be a side effect of the cannabis. It can cause mental health problems. 8-[
Totally agree with the top comment on this page...
Also, BIKERS.....
Rizla Suzuki - BSB and MotoGP....
Right...
Rizlam, good for 2 things...
Small backy fags. many people smoke.
Joints. End of. Especially Silver rizlas (who would smoke a cigerette using a slim silver paper????????? NO-ONE).
Thing is, if they didn't sell, why do all the big supermarkets, every corner shop, all local backup newsagent/small shops (Co-op, Spar etc) still stock them?
If no-one smoked dope, they wouldn't sell, shoips wouldn't stock them, Suzuki in both MotoGP and BSB may not be there as they wouldn't have the sponsers....
People simply do not realise how many people smoke weed in this country. Theres enough demand on the shops! Non-smokers don't have a clue, even smokers don't have a clue, all behined shut doors remember......
So next time you see someone smoking a joint, don't think, druggie, think, that person is helping Suzuki stay racing :lol:
PS, thats just a humourous side im trying to get accross.
That'll be a side effect of the cannabis. It can cause mental health problems. 8-[
:lol: :lol:
That was a good one ha ha.. But..
Your right it CAN can mental issues (more so if smoked below the age of roughly 21 while the mind is still growing).
I COULD fall of my bike and die tomorrow.......
But i wont stop riding a bike? Would you becuase theres a "chance" something may happen?
Howard Marks is still ok? He's been smoking heavily since the 60's/70's.... Seen him live, he looked fine.
PS, this was in Sevenoaks as well funny enough (please refer to an earlier comment......)
Carsick
31-07-06, 02:59 PM
Howard Marks is still ok? He's been smoking heavily since the 60's/70's.... Seen him live, he looked fine
Howard Marks can definitely not be described as looking fine. He looks pretty much like he is; like he's smoked far too much for far too long.
I'm definitely not anti-drugs, but I'm far more of the view that it's nobody elses business what I do, rather than trying to justify my choices by talking about how much harm they do.
Don't drink, don't take drugs, still die.
Xerbraski
31-07-06, 03:02 PM
Howard Marks is still ok? He's been smoking heavily since the 60's/70's.... Seen him live, he looked fine.
Hehe I've seen Howard Marks live myself, twice infact, hes a very intelligent fella!! Read two of his books also, Top Bloke!!
Howard Marks is still ok? He's been smoking heavily since the 60's/70's.... Seen him live, he looked fine.
Hehe I've seen Howard Marks live myself, twice infact, hes a very intelligent fella!! Read two of his books also, Top Bloke!!
I never wrote that. :P
northwind
31-07-06, 03:09 PM
Howard Marks can definitely not be described as looking fine. He looks pretty much like he is; like he's smoked far too much for far too long.
I think he'd still be dried out and ugly if he'd lived the life of a saint, to be fair :)
Xerbraski
31-07-06, 03:09 PM
Howard Marks is still ok? He's been smoking heavily since the 60's/70's.... Seen him live, he looked fine.
Hehe I've seen Howard Marks live myself, twice infact, hes a very intelligent fella!! Read two of his books also, Top Bloke!!
I never wrote that. :P
Oh yeah, soz It was Daimo, i've fixed it now :oops: :lol:
Carsick
31-07-06, 03:11 PM
Howard Marks can definitely not be described as looking fine. He looks pretty much like he is; like he's smoked far too much for far too long.
I think he'd still be dried out and ugly if he'd lived the life of a saint, to be fair :)
Heh, maybe.
UlsterSV
31-07-06, 03:17 PM
What, adrenaline isn't on the list? Thank goodness for that :lol: .
.
:lol: :lol:
If it were up to me I'd ban the lot. Placing tobacco and alcohol as more harmful than certain drugs is just to give these drugs more 'credibility.' Ban them all and start hanging dealers. Rehabilitate the junkies and give users something more productive to do with their time.
Again i have a slightly biased veiw, i smoke pot as do many of my friends. The main point id like to take issue with here is the "gateway" drug aspect. Statistics are funny things, and a worrying proportion (id say at least 75% :wink:) seem to be used to infer something they dont show. The problem is theres nothing to compare it against, theres no other drug thats technically illegal but almost completely tollerated. Young people (not all, but some) get kicks simply from breaking a law, regardless of what it entails. familliarity breeds contempt, i liked northwind's speed limit analagy, it causes you to disregard the laws as a whole becasue parts of it are innapropriate, and you habitually break them. If you made cannabis class A, and tobacco clas B, tobacco would suddenly be the "gateway" drug, and the same is true of declasification, the "ladder" is still the same, there will still be something on the edge of legality/acceptance that makes you become used to disregarding laws, which means things you once saw as taboo no longer seem that way. cannabis doesnt have any inherrant properties that casue users to want more, stronger/different drugs, the only thing that does that is society's presentation of it.
What, adrenaline isn't on the list? Thank goodness for that :lol: .
.
:lol: :lol:
If it were up to me I'd ban the lot. Placing tobacco and alcohol as more harmful than certain drugs is just to give these drugs more 'credibility.' Ban them all and start hanging dealers. Rehabilitate the junkies and give users something more productive to do with their time.
Oooh, and there begins the Cocteau empire (See Demolition Man).... :P
Carsick
31-07-06, 03:40 PM
cannabis doesnt have any inherrant properties that casue users to want more, stronger/different drugs, the only thing that does that is society's presentation of it.
First bit I agree with, but I think you're being too slimplistic with the second bit.
Carsick
31-07-06, 03:40 PM
Is it weird that my boss just asked for the phone number of my connection? :shock:
cannabis doesnt have any inherrant properties that casue users to want more, stronger/different drugs, the only thing that does that is society's presentation of it.
First bit I agree with, but I think you're being too slimplistic with the second bit.
I could well be, wouldnt be the first time. I suppose individual circumstances and the way the supply of drugs are all tied together have an effect, what were you thinking of?
[edit] re-reading that, i suppose the biggest factor is probably actually the same thing that makes us want faster bikes...
Carsick
31-07-06, 03:48 PM
[edit] re-reading that, i suppose the biggest factor is probably actually the same thing that makes us want faster bikes...
On the whole, yup.
northwind
31-07-06, 03:50 PM
If it were up to me I'd ban the lot. Placing tobacco and alcohol as more harmful than certain drugs is just to give these drugs more 'credibility.'
Nah, it's to point out the absurdity of the situation as it stands. You can use the figures either to make a case for legalising hash, but equally you can use it to argue for banning alcohol and tobacco. Either way, the logic's the same- you can't reasonably ban something on the grounds that it's harmful while having something else more harmful still be legal.
Xerbraski
31-07-06, 03:51 PM
I've just read that Henry Fords Model T car was constructed from hemp, and was designed to run on hemp oil and had hemp-plastic panels that had 10 times the impact strength of steel.
http://www.terraseetch.com/hemp.htm
Hemp Rules!!!!!!
Oh yeah, one of the few books Adolf Hitler read was Henry Fords Biography, but thats because Mr Ford Was antisemetic.
(just a little fuhrer fact for ya there)
UlsterSV
31-07-06, 03:53 PM
What, adrenaline isn't on the list? Thank goodness for that :lol: .
.
:lol: :lol:
If it were up to me I'd ban the lot. Placing tobacco and alcohol as more harmful than certain drugs is just to give these drugs more 'credibility.' Ban them all and start hanging dealers. Rehabilitate the junkies and give users something more productive to do with their time.
Oooh, and there begins the Cocteau empire (See Demolition Man).... :P
I'll be Spartan. You can be Lt. Huxley :wink:
UlsterSV
31-07-06, 03:54 PM
If it were up to me I'd ban the lot. Placing tobacco and alcohol as more harmful than certain drugs is just to give these drugs more 'credibility.'
Nah, it's to point out the absurdity of the situation as it stands. You can use the figures either to make a case for legalising hash, but equally you can use it to argue for banning alcohol and tobacco. Either way, the logic's the same- you can't reasonably ban something on the grounds that it's harmful while having something else more harmful still be legal.
Well, that is true. So just ban them all, yes?
Carsick
31-07-06, 04:00 PM
If you can honestly claim that you only ingest or otherwise absorb substances for nutritional or for reasons of taste or flavour (medical uses not included) then I will start to respect your views that drugs should be banned.
If, as I suspect the case to be, you enjoy things like coffee/tea and maybe the occasional beer or maybe enjoy the odd cigarette, then I would say the view is very hypocritical.
northwind
31-07-06, 04:15 PM
Well, that is true. So just ban them all, yes?
If you want, try... But the precedents aren't good :)
UlsterSV
31-07-06, 05:49 PM
Well, that is true. So just ban them all, yes?
If you want, try... But the precedents aren't good :)
It's just never been done right before. And it can be done :wink:
northwind
31-07-06, 06:00 PM
The Taliban did pretty well at it :)
The Taliban did pretty well at it :)
and look what happened to them, they got overthrown by the U.S.
timwilky
31-07-06, 06:24 PM
To those of you dismissive of dope, remember I am an ex smoker and therefore a one time excuser for it.
I know from first hand users who now have mental health problems. The paranoia is genuine. I have seen it in action. This does lead to aggression and violence. Not at the time of use, but a number of years down the line. Surely it is more than a statistical quirk that I should know several people with head problems who I also know to have been heavy dope smokers.
northwind
31-07-06, 06:32 PM
The Taliban did pretty well at it :)
and look what happened to them, they got overthrown by the U.S.
I don't think that's entirely due to the anti-alcohol hard line to be fair :)
Tim, you're right, but then I know an awful lot of people with serious physionlogical and psychological problems from alcohol abuse.
To those of you dismissive of dope, remember I am an ex smoker and therefore a one time excuser for it.
I know from first hand users who now have mental health problems. The paranoia is genuine. I have seen it in action. This does lead to aggression and violence. Not at the time of use, but a number of years down the line. Surely it is more than a statistical quirk that I should know several people with head problems who I also know to have been heavy dope smokers.
It's well documented that cannabis has a link with mental health problems, what is not known is why some people develop problems and some don't. Cannabis may just be a early trigger for people that are already susceptible to mental health problems.
I stopped after watching this woman was wailing along with a cello with a kalidoscope video and I got scared and walked out and kept walking for a couple of miles and locked myself in the car.
Ok, so smoking cannabis doesnt affect your mental capabilities?
Yet Xerbraski thinks its fine to brag about his parents smuggling drugs on a forum Ive made no secret on for working for Customs. Im sure my uniformed colleagues would be most interested in this little nugget of information. :?
Sorry, seem to have misplaced my soh this afternoon.
No change there then!!! :lol:
Only joking Lyn,I'm in a playfull mood! :wink:
I think it points more to the possiblity that many people with mental health problems shouldn't be smoking canabis. I had a friend, G , who smoked since his teens and by the time he was early 30's was a total paranoid basket case. He topped himself, but not before completely destroying his life and the life of those around him.
His brother also smokes and his paranoid delusion is that G was murdered by the brothers of his girlfriend.
The whole family are mentally defective, so I don't blame the weed.
I know lots of people who do drugs,I have to say,they are reasonably sane.
BUT a couple of them let it go too far,it affected them at work,and eventually it got to the point where the drugs were taking a priority in their lives,and everything else became a distant 2nd.
Ok, so smoking cannabis doesnt affect your mental capabilities?
Its one thing for Daimo to admit just smoking it. Another for someone to actively brag about their parents breaking the law and smuggling it in. :evil:
Notice you point out only myself in this instance.............
What i say on an internet forum may or may not be the truth. I may be lying to gain my own cool points??
I also own a space shuttle.
Thing is, smoking weed is massive, millions of people do it.
There are downsides to ALL things that humans enjoy.
End of the day, its all about credibility and politics and money.... End of the day, beer and fags do more harm, but its ok because the government get HUGE amounts of money for it... (and we all know how good our government is with money..... Pensions, war, taxes, hospitals etc etc...)
AS I say, legalise it, get rid of the dealers and pushers who don't care and are only out to make a buck. I would be happy to pay tax on pot if it were legal, just like everyone else does for drink and fags.
Lyn, as your in the law and that, we dont get on, but what are the official legalities of smoking within your own home, or another persons home? Im not being cocky btw.
Theres one thing talking about it and possibly smoking it, but its another to take the micky and say smoke it in a crowd of people.
What i say on an internet forum may or may not be the truth. I may be lying to gain my own cool points??
I also own a space shuttle.
Not one of those horrible old Mitsubishi things I hope!!!!????
You wont get any 'cool points' for owning one of those I can tell you! :lol: :wink:
This thread could get messy. :shock:
I've smoked crack, just the once and it was really great, so good that I'll never touch it again. Knowing crack heads doesn't get me any cool points, it just meant they tried to steal everything I owned.
Notice you point out only myself in this instance.............
Sorry, its because you've also said this in other threads and it stuck with me. Apologies for singling you out.
Lyn, as your in the law and that, we dont get on, but what are the official legalities of smoking within your own home, or another persons home? Im not being cocky btw.
Technically you would be guilty of possession smoking in your or someone elses home. Depending on the quantity involved you would either be given a caution or arrested and charged with possession of a class c drug. If someone else was in possession and you had given them that then technically you could be charged with dealing - again a small quantity would probably see a caution. But the upshot is that for that to happen the house would normally be raided and if youre not dealing or importing thats an almost certainty of not happening.
Theres one thing talking about it and possibly smoking it, but its another to take the micky and say smoke it in a crowd of people.
Exactly. Its one thing to say you smoke it, another to actively brag your parents are on their third trip to bring the stuff in. :roll:
One of my mates has too,he said it was quite pleasant.(In reply to Razor)
Not my thing though.
One of my mates has too,he said it was quite pleasant.
Not my thing though.
A mitsubishi space star?
Do you eat junk food when stoned?
http://usera.imagecave.com/hondalover/MANM.JPG
Xerbraski
31-07-06, 11:36 PM
Ok, so smoking cannabis doesnt affect your mental capabilities?
Yet Xerbraski thinks its fine to brag about his parents smuggling drugs on a forum Ive made no secret on for working for Customs.
Alhough it may of sounded like it Lyn, I wasn't bragging, no...
Im sure my uniformed colleagues would be most interested in this little nugget of information. :?
Probably not in the slightlest bit interested, no...
Sorry, seem to have misplaced my soh this afternoon.
Yes...
Its one thing to say you smoke it, another to actively brag your parents are on their third trip to bring the stuff in.
I didn't say that, I said "they've been to Amsterdam four times and last time they went they brought me some back"
That would indicate they've brought some back 'once' Yeah?!
Customs really arn't interested in a few tourists returning from Amsterdam bringing home maybe £20 worth of cannabis back home with them, they have far more pressing affairs than that.
On paper maybe, but in the real world no; Customs really don't have the time nor recources to persue petty crimes like these.
Have you seen the state of Englands port, airport and ferry terminal security these days?!
Like I said Customs really don't have the resources to persue this type of petty crime.
I have also worked with customs for a number of years in the past, the place I used to work in the Liverpool docks was under bond by customs.
We used to store Evidence for Customs that was used in major drug smuggling i.e trucks, cars and other vehicles and means of transportation etc etc etc.
I know how customs work, and they really arn't interested in a petty £20 bag of legally bought dope wich is funding no crime syndicate as the majority of the money goes back to the Dutch government anyway.
This government really dosn't have a clue about how widespread dope is in this country, though saying that half of em' are drugged up to the 9's themselves anyway.
Not to mention all their shady/corrupt deals for a percentage of tax payers money.
We won't be rid of dope in this country anytime soon, if at all, too much demand y'see, people want it.
It makes me laugh that somthing like dope is so frowned upon.
Yet, if i wanted, I could nip out to buy as much alchohol as I liked and maybe some nice safe over the counter drugs from the pharmacy for good measure too.
This democratic government is a farce!!
So much so that it isn't even a true democracy as we didn't vote for tony blair, we only voted for labour.
A true democracy has it's leader voted in personaly by the population, not just the party he/she is standing for.
England is a dictatorship, we're told what we have to do 'or else' by a leader the majority didn't even vote in, somthing not quite right there...
The government is crass, backward, poorly organised, poorly run, out of date, inefficient and almost victorian.
I personally think that alcohol can be far more dangerous than dope. You don't hear of a guy coming home from the pub and giving his wife and kids a good beating because he's had a few spliffs do you? If you had one bar where everyone was drinking alcohol, and one where everyone was smoking dope, which do you think would be the one where violence would break out?
I'm not anti-alcohol. I don't drink, but purely because I have no tolerance for it, it just makes me ill. I used to drink in the past, and I've smoked dope in the past too, and I have no problem with others doing either of those.
As for dope being a 'gateway', I think that a lot of that is down to the dealers. They would prefer people to move on to highly addictive drugs, and I've known of cases where people have gone to buy dope only to be told 'I don't have any, but why not try this instead'. If dope was legally and freely available I'm sure that many people would quite happily stick to that and not move on to harder drugs.
Carsick
01-08-06, 07:25 AM
As for dope being a 'gateway', I think that a lot of that is down to the dealers. They would prefer people to move on to highly addictive drugs, and I've known of cases where people have gone to buy dope only to be told 'I don't have any, but why not try this instead'.
I would call those people 'pushers'
It's a subtle distinction, but an important one.
Biker Biggles
01-08-06, 09:03 AM
I'm confused by the decriminalise arguement.The one that says it's ok to be a user and have enough for your own use but not to supply it to others.In order for people to have their own small amounts there must be others who sell it,and end users must buy it,so where's the logic in that?We need to either ban it totally(impossible?)or accept it as a fact of life and live with it as we do cigs and booze.My view is that getting it away from the criminals who run the show now would be most benificial,with resources diverted to genuine education and research into short and long term effects.Then we could make up our own minds as we should in a free society,and take responsibility for our own actions.
Carsick
01-08-06, 09:35 AM
That part of the argument for decriminalising possession is probably a cynical ploy to trick people into thinking the government has gone all liberal, when in fact the penalties for supply will probably go through the roof and the cost and difficulty in obtaining anything will mean many casual users won't bother. Serious users, however, will just do more to get the money to buy it.
The only way decriminalisation could work is by making the drugs available through official channels. No other way is a realistic alternative which will benefit anybody.
I think it's a shame that people take drugs excessively and I also intend alcohol - it's absolutely fine to have a glass of wine or whiskey or a spliff in your garden etc - good for quality of life and all. I'm living temporarily on a council estate with my b/f and to see all those crack-heads/stoned chav types - all hyper skinny and just gross - I don't understand how you could allow yourself to get like that. Surely, it's because they were unhappy/misdirected/didn't see a choice or managed their life in a bad way originally that they took this path.
It's a bad stance but I'd rather just not be near living corpses.
I think it's a shame that people take drugs excessively and I also intend alcohol - it's absolutely fine to have a glass of wine or whiskey or a spliff in your garden etc - good for quality of life and all. I'm living temporarily on a council estate with my b/f and to see all those crack-heads/stoned chav types - all hyper skinny and just gross - I don't understand how you could allow yourself to get like that. Surely, it's because they were unhappy/misdirected/didn't see a choice or managed their life in a bad way originally that they took this path.
Exactly, is it the drugs (of any kind) doing that, or is it just the way they have been brought up, the social crowed they are in etc...... Is it the drug, or is it just the lifestyle these people lead? The constent need to feel "big" in the area etc.... Are these people ever really going to make something from their lives? (admittedly SOME will try yes, but u'll find these people don't hang around in gangs etc).
Most good songs have been written whilst the musician was stoned (I mean, yellow submarine, HOW migh was the guy when he wrote that eh.........)
As soon as drugs become a priority for yourself, thats when you have issues.
I watched "Ross Kemp on Gangs", and he was interviewing a load of teenagers, all holding guns, giving it the "big un" for the cameras, saying how they hate the police etc... They had a joint, and after that, EVERY single one of thems attitude changed a little, the real people started to come out, laughing and joking, hardly any arrogence etc... (this wasn't in this country though). The teenagers started to come out through the macho hard boy image they were trying to give.
gettin2dizzy
17-12-07, 10:38 AM
It didn't materialise did it... what a surprise ;)
Pedrosa
17-12-07, 10:49 AM
Here in Spain where drink driving is still at ridiculous levels,(the official limit is 1 beer...which is not a pint) they are now doing roadside checks for drug use as well. Not surprising when shockingly, Spain has the largest cocaine usage,second only to America! Spain only has a population of about 45 million ffs!
My personal view on drink and drugs is that zero tolerance when operating any form of motor vehicle. There are a second group of Spanish guys that I have ridden with on occasions and they light up spliffs at every coffee stop and we are talking in the morning here. They do tend to ride in a rather cavalier manner I must admit and at times push the envelope way more than I would consider on the public roads.
metalmonkey
17-12-07, 04:11 PM
From a person point of view the only thing I take is beer but not that much now, I'm addicated to aderlin. I don't even take coffee, lol.
Though drugs are responsiable for a hell of alot of crime, people steal, rob to fund their habits, there was a guy today going through herion withdraw I have no shymphany as they broke into someones house, a threatned them with a knife.
You would belive for example I take someone in theft I can bet you that they are a drug addict, robbing and stealing to fund their addiction, its people like you they do it too. Actually everyone, I have had for theft has drug problems, nice isn't it! That ranges from teenagers to adults with a long rap sheet.
I have different view to most people I guess, but I wouldn't dream of putting anything like that inside of me. Its up you what you do......but if ur buying some think where is that money going too?
Pedrosa
17-12-07, 06:33 PM
Bluethunder makes a very good point in that it is not high earning,cash rich and pretty professionals are using coke. The more worrying side of it is the low life desperados who cannot hold down a job due to the depth of their addiction. Sometimes it's sheer desperation in order to get a new fix or the fact that they are high as a kite...but one thing is for sure you do not want them creeping in to your home in the middle of the night when those you love and cherish are fast asleep in their beds.
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