Getting air?

[stuartyboy]

Righty ho...

All this talk about getting two wheels off the ground on the DP & WW is making me curious. Now while it's ok for you guys with years of experience, guys like me could do with a few pointers.

I've never jumped on a motorbike on the road but I've done years of jumps and drops on a mountain bike. I know how to brace for take off and adjust for landing which is second nature for me now so I was wondering if it was the same for a motorbike.

For mountain biking the drill is...rise slightly with the bike on take off, loosen off mid air (arms hands and knees) look where you want to land and when landing let your knees act as extended shock absorbers.

Nutty said in another post to grab the tank with my knees so it immediately made think that the drill is different. I also know there's a throttle thrown into the mix and greater speed

So what's the drill guys/gals? I'm particularly keen to know about the throttle, knees where to look etc. From my reckoning, when the back wheel lifts there will be no load, wheel spins faster etc. Should I roll off slightly mid air or keep steady?


Note: I'm NOT going out to attempt a jump on any of these roads - I just want to be prepared incase I'm caught unawares.

[Scoobs]

I just **** myself!

[Law]

I just sh*t myself!

:lol: random or what? Scoobs, you're not old enough to be senile and incontinent!

[thor]

I just try to hang on!

Seriously though, an SV is much heavier than a mountain bike. Not sure if anything is going to translate really.

[Tiger 55]

I've only been airborne once on the Wibbly Wobbly. Must admit I tensed up a bit, including a definite pucker of the sphincter, and I think I locked my arms which is the wrong thing to do. I had 'planned' to declutch if it ever happened but I was up and down so quickly I never got the chance.

Having said all that the rented Vauxhall Astra I was driving never missed a beat.

[Anonymous]

your not in the air long enough on the wibbly wobbly to do anything really. its a case of your in the air and landing before you can t hink about anything. which is why i said grip with your knees. along the entire wibbly wobbly grip the tank with your knees and if you do lift off you will be able to walk after wards.

[stuartyboy]

Seriously though, an SV is much heavier than a mountain bike. Not sure if anything is going to translate really.

I know that :wink: but it "must" translate.

Whether you go over a jump at 30mph on a mountain bike or 60mph on a motorbike, the suspension of both bikes behave identically. No arguments please - Mountain biking suspension was derived from motor bike suspesnion. They damp, rebound and preload 100% identically.

It's the effects of body positioning and the throttle I want to know about.... What nutty said about holding the tank with the knees doesn't really make sense to me.

Why would I want to grip the tank with my knees and make myself more rigid?

What should I be doing with the throttle?

[the white rabbit]

It probably translates when you expect to achieve air or its planned, but so far on the road thats never happened to me and I've been surprised every time :lol:

Thats 'bump' on the south north was juts the best. 'Oh look a straight lets open the.........AAAAHHHhhhhh............aaaahhHHH me nuts...........'

But if I thought one might happen I would raise myself on the pegs and take the landing on my feet rather than me nads. I would lightly grip the tank sides with my legs for stability, thats all. And throttle back somewhat. But that's all academic when you get completely caught out and despite being in the air for what seems to be a lifetime and not ahve any time to plan anyhting because your life is flashing before you :lol:

Have a look and see what Travis Pastrana does :lol:

[stuartyboy]

your not in the air long enough on the wibbly wobbly to do anything really. its a case of your in the air and landing before you can t hink about anything. which is why i said grip with your knees. along the entire wibbly wobbly grip the tank with your knees and if you do lift off you will be able to walk after wards.

Just saw this nutty. Been discussing this at work with one of the moto xers. Says whatever you do do NOT grip the tank with your knees as you run the risk of being thrown off the bike if you land hard.

You said you're not in the air long enough - what sort of speeds give you lift off? How high are you in the air?

[the white rabbit]

Been discussing this at work with one of the moto xers. Says whatever you do do NOT grip the tank with your knees as you run the risk of being thrown off the bike if you land hard.

Can you ask him about body position, back or central and throttle please :?:

[Anonymous]

your not in the air long enough on the wibbly wobbly to do anything really. its a case of your in the air and landing before you can t hink about anything. which is why i said grip with your knees. along the entire wibbly wobbly grip the tank with your knees and if you do lift off you will be able to walk after wards.

Just saw this nutty. Been discussing this at work with one of the moto xers. Says whatever you do do NOT grip the tank with your knees as you run the risk of being thrown off the bike if you land hard.

You said you're not in the air long enough - what sort of speeds give you lift off? How high are you in the air?

well you are no where near as high as those guys. i am just warning you, if you dont grip the tank with your knees you will speak in a high voice. Wheels are only inches off the ground. i have managed to get both wheels off the ground only a couple of times doing about 55mph. other times only front wheel goes light. its not like you are flying thru t he air or anything. wish i hadnt said anything now, was just a friendly jokey warning. others do that road and dont lift off. saying that my ex managed to get both wheels off ground on the same road - he was riding a black bird - big heavy beast.

[stuartyboy]

wish i hadnt said anything now, was just a friendly jokey warning.

I'm glad you did say something. :D Much better to be prepared or at keast know what to expect.

So you'se yins are only bunny hopping then :P

If that's the case then I must've done that already. There's a long straight between Kinross and Kelty called the fish tail. Trundling along at 60 mate in front, sees him "bunny hopping", next thing I felt a bit "light" for an instant. Was over so quick I didn't know what happened. :?

[Anonymous]

wish i hadnt said anything now, was just a friendly jokey warning.

I'm glad you did say something. :D Much better to be prepared or at keast know what to expect.

So you'se yins are only bunny hopping then :P

If that's the case then I must've done that already. There's a long straight between Kinross and Kelty called the fish tail. Trundling along at 60 mate in front, sees him "bunny hopping", next thing I felt a bit "light" for an instant. Was over so quick I didn't know what happened. :?

yeah, didnt realise it had specific terminology lol. its not bad or scary but fun. but grip with your knees :lol:

[Dicky Ticker]

My 2p worth , I think Nutty is trying to say that you are liable to be caught out by the skips/hops and to protect your nuts grip the tank The other alternative is adopt the dirt bike stance for the whole length of road if you want to hash on but I bet if you do its just when you have sat back in the saddle one catches you unawares


= Squeaky voice syndrome :lol:

[stuartyboy]

Can you ask him about body position, back or central and throttle please :?:

He says jumping on a road bike is completely different to a dirt bike. He hasn't road biked for years but he would avoid any kind of road jumps like the plague. He's not entirely sure about throttle advice because the traction differences between road and off road are extremely different on landing.

For example when you land a road bike the grip is instantaneous on the rear tyre (unless its a wet road). Off road - the rear wheel just chews up the loose dirt and has much less traction so there's much more tolerance with throttle.

He says one thing you dont want on a road bike is any kind of height in a jump. Damping/travel just weren't meant for it. If you're caught unaware then its best to relax and let your body absorb some of the bikes upward motion as this will keep the bike low.

I know what he's talking about here - exactly the same in mountain biking. We let the bike come up into us. As the bike leaves the ramp then I'm standing off the seat a bit. When the bike gets airborne, I bend my knees and crouch at the same time allowing the bike to ease into my body so effectivley I keep it low and fast and much smoother.

He said to disregard the thing about gripping with the knees. He thought I was talking about dirt bikes :oops: . Keeping your knees gripping the tank is ok but think about how someone rides a horse. **** in the air knees gripping the hoss.

Suppose this is why I asked the question in the first place and its uncovered a few more. Two different riding positions thrown in the mix now - such as SVS and SVnaked.

Can anyone shed some light on what to do with the throttle issue and the body positioning between sports position and standard?

[Exi]

Try not to be accelerating or engine braking, especially if the bump is on a corner. Cruising over on a higher gear than normal is handy for this.

[jim@55]

your m8 is prob right ,BUT if you dont grip the tank with your knees so that your rising with the bike i guarantee sore privates will happen even on a little bit of 'air '(i.e not really airborne just no load on suspension at all)will b sore if u dont grip the tank as nutty says .tell you what ,do it and dont grip the tank and we'll see whos right ,your m8 or nutty(if u can still talk ) :lol:

[colinbal4]

Technique for jumping over bumps and crests?

That kind of implies that your going to do it on purpose! :lol: Its an SV not a KX250!

Doing it on purpose only happens the second time you go over them! The first time is always a surprise. Even on the second go my only technique is to grin like an idiot and accelerate towards the crest instead of slowing down. You will get more than just a wee bunny hop if the speed is high enough!

If you want all the theory (read: ******** 'cos there isn't time to put it into practice) then read on. If you've got a life or want to go to bed, ignore this blub and move onto the next reply.




It is different to a push bike, where you don't need to control the back wheel. You stop pedalling whilst in the air and the back wheel freewheels back to the correct speed on landing. On a motorbike your back wheel can be braking (engine compression) or spinning too fast depending on what you are doing with the throttle. You need to back off the throttle a bit to find a happy medium. Keep the throttle open and the engine will rev, spinning the wheel too fast as there is suddenly no load to counteract it. Land with the back wheel spinning much faster than the road surface passing underneath it, with power still going through it, and your back tyre will dig in and the bike will try to make up the bit of speed it's just lost, instantly! You'll feel the bike kick forwards against the your inertia and possibly induce a fishtailing back end, just like a powerful rear wheel drive car.

Close it completely and you just get an annoying sudden slow down effect on landing which throws your weight forward, as the engine is suddenly forced to spin faster and inertia in pistons/crank and compression give resistance. You can dip the clutch, and freewheel the landing like a push bike, but you'll not be fully in control on landing and you'll still need to match the revs before you can let clutch out smoothly, so you might as well do it right in the first place.

[gavhogg]

he was riding a black bird - big heavy beast.

I'm trying hard not to say something to that comment Nutty :wink: :D

[suicidesam]

Managed to get some air by accident on the way back from the last ride out, on a back road a few miles from home... Forgot about a bit of the road that my car bottoms out on! The bike hit the rev limiter before i knew what was happening :shock: it was over and done with before i had a chance to think about it... Still got a bit of a fright tho :lol:

[Anonymous]

he was riding a black bird - big heavy beast.

I'm trying hard not to say something to that comment Nutty :wink: :D


not like you to hold your tongue gav lol :lol:

[splund]

I'm with nutty on the tank grabing technique, upto a point though. On the road you tend not to find big air jumps like you will see in motox. I have found that when you go over a crest and get a fraction of a second of air, it's better to grip the tank because it keeps my body held to the bike, and when it lands, there is no gap between me and the seat, thus the suspension takes the impact. When i haven't gripped the tank i find the bike heads back down a lot quicker than i do, What with me being a skinny runt and not as heavy as the bike. A gap opens up the bike hits the ground and then i hit the bike, which isnt comfortable and my head comes down almost hitting the yoke/tank.

Now if i was into bigger air and had more time to balance myself and deliberately standing up on the pegs, i think would be better, using my legs to compliment the suspension. However any opertunity on the road to jump this high, is going to have a very hard landing and i dont care how good you are, your SV, your legs and your unmentionables are going to suffer. Even on hump back bridges the landing will be on level ground, unlike motox where jumpers judge their speed to to come down on the downward slope, and with a about a foot of suspension travel.

Incedently i've never seen any pictures of a road racer standing up when going over a hump back bridge.

:wink:

[pod]

Aviating motorsickles, used to be a speciality, I would seek out certain roads in Angus. I reccomend the humpback bridge at Alyth golf course ( may be gone now , that was 20 years ago), and a very good double as you go past old Kirkbuddo school. Watch out for the bend after the 2nd jump heading east though!

Certain bikes are better than others.
Natch, good suspension damping is a must.

My technique, know the jump, dont go big first time, gravel and subtle changes of line will ruin your day.
On take off push down on the pegs taking your weight on your feet , your **** does need to be just off the saddle , this will really smooth the landing.
Throttle must be closed a tad as the rear wheel comes up to prevent over rev..
Body position neutral, ideally the back should touch down just before the front, I cant wheely since all my insticnts are to keep the front down. Let your legs act as suspension on contact with the road to help settle the bike.
This was all learned on old brit stuff with relatively crude suspension so the SV will fly well, my favourite tool was the aptly named Ariel arrow which always flew true.

The scariest lump Ive come across is on the road from Latheron to Thurso , at the end of a particularly large straight there is a serious hump back bridge, rumour has it that a GSXR pilot was shovelled up after hitting this at 140, I hit it at the ton last week and got quite a surprise ( Shat myself), its very bumpy on the landing side, and drops off fast from the peak.
Must try the DP sometime, not a road that I know , thanks for the tip.
Cheers
Pod

[Anonymous]

hiya pod long time no see

well i have finally got that raptor that i went on about, about 3 years ago

swapped it with my bf for the SV

love it

[pod]

Ho Nutty et al.
took a ride last night to review my aviating tips.
Yep you do want to grip the tank with your knees like Nutty said, just squeeze the tank and push down with your feet to take weight of yir bahookie.

Nice one with the Rap Nutty.

Get in touch with Baines racing and spend £120 on the rear suspension dog bone link. That was the best money I spent on mine , it really pins the front end down and stops headshake when accelerating out of bumpy bends.
Its a snip to fit as long as you prop up the rear end with a block ( I tied mine up to the roof beam in a shed but that was a faff).Gives a shout the next time your headin up Oban way.
i also spent around £400 getting maxton to revalve the forks , much smoother ride but the rear link made the most difference.
I agree about the O2Os , just fitted a pair, love them.
While you guys were runnin around Argyll on the 3rd I headed North tae thurso then west and down Scourie and Kinlochbervie, whit a road , keep it to yirsels though. My mates organised this a while back or I would have linked up wi you SV lot.

My rap 650 is goin strong at 30K plus miles but the paint on the ally footrest hangers is fallin off, it would be worth pullin them off and waxing the hard to get to stuff before the salt gets in, mine look really scabby now, as does the bottom yoke.
Comin apart this winter for a tart up.
Cheers
Pod