Best Springs, do I need Emulators?

[Blue_SV650S]

This sort of topic has been discussed over and over in one way or another, so forgive me, but I am after a specific answer …

Ok, I have too curvys, without going through the whole story I have ended up with 2 front end/fork setups, both of which I have used on the road at some point. I have a set of totally standard forks. I also have a set with Racetch 80 springs and Racetech emulators in (with 15w oil). The racetech forks are so much better (confidence inspiring) than the stock forks.

I am a bit tight, so don’t really want to put my hand in my pocket for the £200 odd that it would cost to get the racetech bits for my road forks.

So I could just get some springs, if I was to just the springs then which are the best make to go for (Ohlins, Racetech etc)??? And how much difference do the emulators make??? i.e. is it mostly the springs that make the biggest difference?

So, in summery:-
1.Is it the springs or emulators that make the big difference?
2.What are the best manufacturer for just springs (low price being a desirable factor).
3.Has anyone done a back to back test with and without emulators?

[Blue_SV650S]

Oh and unless thre is a good reason not to, I was thinking of getting Racetec springs so if I decide to treat myself to emulators in the future, I know the two will go together. But if just a set of springs from another manufacturer vastly improve the front end then that’d be cool. I am not after perfection, just a vast improvement!!! If I could get 80% of the full racetech setup then that’d be ample.

[weazelz]

you can have a go on mine with hyperpro progressive springs & 15w oil on monday if you like

[jambo]

It sounds like you already know the answer to me :wink:

Get the springs. I can't imagine it would make a difference who made them, though it's worth checking if you're supposed to cut the spacer with each one. When you've fitted the springs and changed the oil the bike will feel better, when you've got the cash do the emulators 8) If you like the feel of the forks on the race bike I'd go for the same spring rate on the road bike, the ones in the race bike are probably Linier rather than progressive, but it may be worth checking.

If you have a spare afternoon, why not just drop the springs from your race bike into the road bike, this will let you know exactly what to expect after parting with your hard earned? :idea:

The following people also make stiffer bouncy bits:
Maxton
Hagon
Ohlins
rachetech
WP

[northwind]

Springs are springs, more or less... As long as the weight's right I wouldn't worry about make. And springs and oil's good enough for 9/10 people after all.

You could pull the springy bits from the track bike and try them in the street bike without the emulators, see how that works for you?

[21QUEST]

You already have more or less your answer but one thing I've noticed with the Maxton springs I've come across is that they tend to be quite long. I've not seen a Maxton supplied springs for the SV but a couple or so I've seen for USD forks have been very long(spacers were only 20mm long).

So if thinking you may go for Emulators in future probably a good idea to go for one that would fit with emulators(ohlins racetech, etc).

I would think most wouldn't be a problem but just pointing out what I've noticed with the Maxton springs and I'm sure someone will be along to say 'yeah' or 'Nah' :wink: .

Cheers
Ben

[chazzyb]

I've just looked at the price of Racetech emulators from PDQ and suspect I may be doing this real soon now. I like riding on back roads but I'm fed up with the jarring on larger bumps. Hell, I've had the bars wrenched out of my hands more than once by things like a tree root pushing a lump up in the road surface, which I haven't spotted (keeping my vision up, see :lol: )

[weazelz]

I've had the bars wrenched out of my hands more than once by things like a tree root pushing a lump up in the road surface, which I haven't spotted (keeping my vision up, see :lol: )I think you're meant to have spotted that sort of thing from where you've had your vision up further back up the road

[Blue_SV650S]

Humm, that’s a point I could whip out the springs from the trackbike … good idea!! :) I would need to make some new spacers mind (the emulators are what 15mm thick??).

As no one has recommended any particular manufacturer being better than another, I’ll stick with the racetechs for the aforementioned reason.

Ah, sod it, I’ll get on the phone and order a set of springs :) … bearing in mind I am not going to be fitting emulators (at this point) am I best getting some 15w oil or sticking with the 10w I have in there now?

p.s. Thanks for the offer weazelz, but I think I am just going to get the springs anyhow :)

[sdusk]

Blue_SV650S, I know folk who have been very happy with the emulators and stock spings and 15W oil. Especially if they like the suspension a little bit softer (as you have said previously that you do). A slightly overdamped spring is preferable to an uprated spring with too little rebound damping for most people.

You have all the parts at your disposal, so give it a go!

[Robw#70]

The racetech springs are very consistant and cope with mileage, I have found other(cheaper) springs shorten after about 8000miles (ie full service time) needing more preload for the same sag.

If you want good allround road/track performance then Hyperpro springs IMHO are best, not too harsh at lower speeds and stiff enough when needed, however they dont work as well with emulators (being progressive).

15wt oil will give about the right amount of rebound with just springs

[Blue_SV650S]

The racetech springs are very consistant and cope with mileage, I have found other(cheaper) springs shorten after about 8000miles (ie full service time) needing more preload for the same sag.

If you want good allround road/track performance then Hyperpro springs IMHO are best, not too harsh at lower speeds and stiff enough when needed, however they dont work as well with emulators (being progressive).

15wt oil will give about the right amount of rebound with just springs

PDQ (that’s who you work for right?) who I got my 80 racetech's from do Hyperpro springs:-

<snip>
Hyperpro Front Fork Kits
The Hyperpro front fork kits feature superior high alloyed chrome steel springs - specially polished for minimum friction, which carry a lifetime warranty against breaking. The springs are manufactured to DIN-2095 Class 1 and are specially designed and tested to give maximum performance. They come complete with fork oil, fork seal lubricant, stickers, instruction sheet and set up tips.


Hyperpro Constant Rising Rate (progressive) Fork Kits = £97.00 inc VAT
<unsnip>

so that’s £97 including the forks oil ... is that 15w oil like you recommend or do I get to choose on the day???

[Robw#70]

PDQ (that’s who you work for right?) who I got my 80 racetech's from do Hyperpro springs:-


so that’s £97 including the forks oil ... is that 15w oil like you recommend or do I get to choose on the day???

I used to work for them, the oil comes in the 'kit' I think its 15wt, having been on the course with the Hyperpro designer I know how much research goes in to their kits---so would fit whatever came in the box.

The distributer changed for Hyperpro, but PDQ can still get them, just wont be in stock but should only be a couple of days to get in.
But I think they're a bit dearer now £114 springs to mind, but dont quote me :wink:

[bikenut34]

HI
I fitted progresive fork springs in my K1 SV the cost of the srpindgs £54.00 labour
ZERO and thet make a hell of a differance use 15wt oil and be presise with the oil.
they have a web site but i cannot remember what it is put that down to old age sorry

[Blue_SV650S]

Cheers guys

£114 is sounding a darn site closer to £200 than £97 ... it'd almost be worth throwing the extra at it to do the job properly!?! :lol:

bikenut34 - £54 ... that sounds more like me :lol: what make are they?? I can look them up myself. :)

[CHICKENSTRIPS]

I fitted Ohlins springs a year ago, no cutting of spacer needed, straight drop in. If you like back roads I would recommend not using 15 WT oil, I had 15 WT in mine and the front end got a bit lively on uneven surfaces, 12.5 WT is a pretty good compromise. Just had a ride on my mates stock SV the other day and the difference between his suspension and mine (Ohlins front spring and gixxer rear shock) was night and day when pushing on a bit. At the end of the day any reputable spring set up will be better than standard.

[bikenut34]

Hi bluey
the springs are from a company called progressive suspension USA and i got them through MandP ,the web address is www.progressivesuspension.com
e mail info@progressivesuspension.com
hope you find what you are looking for

[Blue_SV650S]

Ok cheers for the info guys! Gonna ring around and get some prices :)

[petevtwin650]

Recently fitted the emulators, .90kg racetech springs and 20wt oil. The price complete with 2 litres of oil, although I only used 1, and delivery was £206.21 delivered. That was from PDQ. Came through in a couple of days. Good service.

[northwind]

I paid less for my front end swap ;)

[petevtwin650]

Ultimately maybe Northwind. :lol:

But the spring change is a lot more straightforward. A weekends work at best. Even for a mechanical numpty like me. Doesn't look nearly as good though, or give the brake upgrade.

[northwind]

Definately easier... And very good too. I only did the front end for the bling ;) Performance wise, 9/10 times I was happy with just the springs and oil tbh.

[johnnyrod]

I can tell you about 2 curvies...

My mate started from stock forks and we fitted stiffer springs (these were Progressives, but springs are springs, not going to unearth that one right now), and it made a big difference. With the sag set right, it cured most handling problems as the front end is too soft all over.

A few years before that I fitted the emulators on their own, stock fork oil and everything, just trimmed the spacer tubes by 25mm (thickness of the emulators). The forks weren't really any stiffer, but the control is loads better, you really notice it on B-roads. After some track caning I also went for the springs (same set-up as above), with 10W oil but these days 15W, and I'm happy.

I don't know as much as Rob etc. but I can tell you how it feels and so on. After getting off bike 1 and getting onto bike 2 my mate went out and bought the emulators, said his front end felt like it was on the road and mine felt like it was stuck to the road. So I guess the emulators work, it's not just my imagination. With them alone but stock springs I was still unhappy, e.g. if you braked for a bend while dangling off one side of the bike (e.g. short squirt between two bends the same way) the front end would tie itself in a knot, really not nice.

So the answer is... springs if you can afford only one mod, emulators too if you can afford both. Or price up GSXR forks and you may be surprised.

Does that help at all? Between me and my mate we seem to have all the combinations, but I can't tell you about which springs to buy, mine are more luck than judgement for my weight.

PS I was going to come to Cadwell the other day but it was raining!

[Blue_SV650S]

Hiya that is just the sort of write-up I was after, a ‘back to back’ test, cheers :)

I like the idea of the GSXR front end conversion, I think that is going to be the only way to get a ‘great’ front end on a SV and as you said before if I sell the stock SV front end to get some money back, there probably isn’t a lot in it money wise all in. But it is a lot of hassle to do the GSXR route as; well you need to source everything, then sell all the old stuff!! eBay is a good source, but it can take a lot of time to get the items at the correct price and there are a lot of people selling dodgy parts on there!!!

For the brief period I had the 80 springs and emulators setup in my road-bike I was very happy with the performance. I could still pick holes, but much much better than stock or with the not-for-me spring and preload setup. I could most certainly live with a front end like that :)

Also I don’t want the hassle of potential insurance problems having changed the front end to GSXR (new springs/emulators would be less likely to cause a fuss in the event!!).

So unless you know of a front end going for a price I can’t refuse, it’ll be the springs and emulators route for me :)

[northwind]

I like the idea of the GSXR front end conversion, I think that is going to be the only way to get a ‘great’ front end on a SV

Wee bit of a derail, but it looks like the Traxxion AK20 cartridges in the SV forks work out way better than stock GSXR... very expensive, mind, more than rebuilt GSXR forks would be in fact, but the feedback and reviews of the kit's been incredible. $1000 though!