Derailed: Now the SV Saga. Lucky white heather, the sequal.

[Kilted Ginger]

Tyres feeling very squirmy when cornering, espcially with pillion, I'm a biker numpty, please help see this thread http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?p=648644#648644 Either problem with tyres or in my head but its destroying what little confidence i had. The bike gets its 4k service at the end of the month and i'm quite happy to put new tyres on then or before if they are needed.

UPDATE
Tyre is gubbed :cry: , question now is what do i replace them with :? , see post above.
feel better knowing it wasnt all in my head. :D :roll:

[peterco]

Some tyre's here.
Also try this site then shop around.
www.moto-tyres.co.uk

pete
Tyre

Manufacturer: Suzuki [ change ]
Model: SV 650 S (03-) WVBY [ change ]


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Dunlop from 79.60 £
Front wheel : Sportmax D 220 F ST L 120/60 R 17 W55 TL
Rear wheel : Sportmax D 220 ST L 160/60 R 17 W69 TL
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Dunlop from 84.50 £
Front wheel : Sportmax D 208 F 120/60 R 17 W55 TL
Rear wheel : Sportmax D 208 160/60 R 17 W69 TL
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Dunlop from 88.20 £
Front wheel : Sportmax D 208 F RR 120/60 R 17 W55 TL
Rear wheel : Sportmax D 208 RR 160/60 R 17 W69 TL
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[stuartyboy]

Stradas are excellent. Same as z6. Strathearn tyres crieff. Ride in ride out.

[jim@55]

Strathearn Tyres Creiff 01764 655 904
phone craig (guy who works there ,)top man ride-in ride-out ,does it all for you z6 is a good choice or pirelli diablo stradas(same thing just a diff name) :wink:

[northwind]

I'd say Z6s too... But they're not the only game in town. Road Attacks are pretty good, and cheaper. Or, you might want to go for something stickier if you do lower mileges? Roadtecs etc are the kings for the all weather, go anywhere rider but for a weekend bike there's a lot to be sadi for Diablos/Sportecs.

[stuartyboy]

And incase you hadn't noticed- no one recommends D220s

[Kilted Ginger]

You guys are great :) The best thing is you assume a level of intelligence and knowledge that I quite clearly don't have :oops: . Single term names like z6 or bt 14s, magic, its like translating mandarin. Anyway here is my best attempts after reading all the posts and some other threads,
These are Internet prices for the pair delivered, so there's still fitting charges. I assume I need to (or am better to) buy a pair? (front tyre's got apx 3mm tread)

Pirelli DIABLO STRADA £160

Continental RoadAttack £150

Metzeler Roadtec Z6 £165

Bridgestone BT 014 F £170

Michelin Pilot Road £175

Bridgestone BT 020 F £170

I do apx 30 miles commute every day in all weathers, i also try to get at least 2 decent runs per week 1 - 200 miles so probably looking for something quite hardy but with good levels of grip wet and dry. reckon 10000 miles a year but that's only a guess.
Sorry if I'm being particularly dense but ](*,) :scratch:

[Tiger 55]

Aye, you'll need to buy a pair this time. The treads are designed to work together at the water dispersal game, which in Scotland can be quite a big issue :)

As the rear will disappear faster than the front you might get away with just the rear next time, depending on how many burnouts/donuts etc you do over the winter.

I express no opinion on which tyres to get because I don't think they are the limiting factor on my machine...

[stuartyboy]

Oops - should have said. In my experience ordering online is a waste of time unless you get a serious discount and at these prices its not worth it. You have to get the tyres fitted which means you have to take the wheels off or find some way to get them over on your bike.

Cost me £175 for Pirelli Diablo Stradas fitted from Strathearn tyres in Crieff. It was also a good run over so it was worth it. By the time I got back the tyres were scrubbed in as well :)

[jim@55]

as has been said

z6 ,pair obv 180£@strathearn
conti road attack,145£@strathearn
if u take the wheels off yourselve then most places will fit the tyres for u,but if you are as much of a mech novice as you say ,btr gtng the whole procedure taken care of for u (wheel removal,fitment of tyres and everything replaced as it should b )strathearn 'l do the whole shebang for you included in the price ,as will most dealers ,but you'll pay extra at your dealer and prob have to book it in 3 weeks in advance .it takes workshop time to do it and tbh most dealers cant b bothered ,,go to crieff .and btw im not on commision /work there/whatever :wink:

[colinbal4]

Ginger, worth doing a search in the tyre section on the main forum for which tyre you want, before you buy. There is a lot of opinion in there and some poll's in which the Z6 always seems to win.

As you know I had problems with the BT020 in the wet, but I have a different profile Dunlop on the front, so according to Cupar Motorcycles 1) the front might not clearing the water away in the manner Bridgestone intended 2) there is handling imbalance due to the 020's profile being quicker to tip to corners than the Dunlop. Both of these could have been a factors and not necessarily the fault of the 020 which Cupar thought was an alright tyre.

There are a number of folk in the tyre forum complaining about the 020 in the wet, but others including some SV Ecosse members rate them highly.

I'm just going to replace the front tyre with another 020 and hopefully that will sort it, and if not I'll have to be more careful when it rains (not a bad thing) and get Z6's next time round.

[northwind]

020's still a decent tyre... But practically nobody who recommends them has tried anything newer ;) They're more expensive than the new kids on teh block too, and a similiar profile, so personally I can't see any advantage. They're not drastically left behind, but they're a wee bit worse at everything.

For some reason, the 020 rear on mine (came with my spare wheel) has 3 chicken strips. One on the left, one on the right, and one a wee bit in from the right. I'll try and get some photos. It's kind of cool :)

[Dicky Ticker]

Mark,What ever you choose I do suggest that it is a matching pair as different makes,mixed can drastically affect the handling of the bike and as some one said winter is just round the corner so bearing that in mind with your weekly milage go for a good wet weather tyre. Change for a set of stickies in the spring,but keep the front for next winter along with a new rear and you can probably do the same the following spring with the stickies
As 1 front =2rears with most riders

Mac


P.S. as a bit of guidance I use BT020's and I get 10,000+ from a front and 6000 from a rear,nothing special but with the harder compound in the centre they don't seem to square of as much as some other brands
I may try the BT014's next time though

[colinbal4]

Are there any bike tyre online stores that offer a local fitting service included in the price in the same way as valuetyres or blackcircles do with cars?

Just had to shell out 80 quid with valuetyres tonight for a new Continental Premium Contact 2 for the car (BMW 320d) 'cos I had a nail thru the sidewall!! Not having much luck with tyres at the moment!

[Kilted Ginger]

Jim@55 didnt see you last night. You could have had a laugh at my tyre with the rest of them :smt044 . Couple of mechanics there, one bike one cars both said the tyre was utterley goosed, they both reckoned that it was a "faulty tyre" rather than worn out or anything i'd done to it :smt092 . Everything they said tied in with what the guy at work said.

They spent a wee while explaining it to me, the rubber on the outer third (both sides) looks like chicken skin (bubbly and stretched) where the tread is you can now actually see the rubber is rolling back on itself, looks like the crest of a wave.

Syrprisingly enough it still feels not to bad if im solo and its dry but with a pillion or in the wet its completely unpredictable :smt048 .

They reckon if i take it back to the dealer :smt077 i may get some money back as this is faulty, but this will be limited by the amount of miles i've done (3700) compared to the projected life of the tyre which is ????? :scratch: The money i'd get back might offset the difference in price between dealer and strathearn but they might also insist on swapping like for like meaning i'd have a new d220 on th rear. has anyone any experience of this. Or am i better getting in touch with dunlop (or suzuki) directly or is it not worth the hassle and just go and buy new tyres? :smt012

[Tiger 55]

They reckon if i take it back to the dealer :smt077 i may get some money back <snip> Or am i better getting in touch with dunlop (or suzuki) directly or is it not worth the hassle and just go and buy new tyres? :smt012

Life's too short to get involved with either of the manufacturers but the dealer is worth a punt. He might tell you to poke off but it can't hurt to ask. (Unless it's Mickey Oates of course.)

I reckon he'll fit a new tyre to match whatever you've got on the front and knock a few quid off, especially if you're asking nicely and dealing with the guy who sold you the bike in the first place.

[jim@55]

iwas there jast night albeit i turned up a wee bit late as i had to dismantle bits of my bike about 6.00 :shock: did u not hear a sv(yellow coming into the car park as people were leaving?if its goosed(your tyre that is)personally i would just change them (if u can afford it )i mean ,what'll the dealer do IF he does anything?-replace it with whats on there just now :roll: just change them while you have the chance :wink:

[Kilted Ginger]

Spoke to craig at strathearn tyres, he recommended the Bridgestone BT 020, £180 fitted,
Said the Z6 was a comparable tyre £180 fitted
and that the road attacks good in the wet and dry but not the damp, £150 fitted.

So its a toss of a coin, 020's or z6's :roll:

I'm crap at making decisions I know nothing about ](*,)

I'll do a bit reading on their official web sites tonight and make my decision,
Think the indecisiveness is stemming from the fact that I had to make a major decision about my pension yesterday, and guaranteed it will have been the wrong one. :?

[Dicky Ticker]

Mate, When you have changed your tyres take the knackered one back to the dealer and try for a warranty claim[Nothing ventured nothing gained] and say the police made you get it changed as it was dangerous and kick up a stink about nearly being nicked for a defective tyre

[suicidesam]

Got Metz Z6's on my curvy, rear has been on a while and i just replaced the front about a month ago, not had any probs with them. Seem to be quite good for the daily commute, rear has squared off a bit but 2k miles of mostly straight roads with a noobie rider will do that to any tire.

[northwind]

Will you tell 'em or will I? :) The plot thickens...

[jim@55]

one of u tell us ,whats happened now??

[northwind]

Strathallen told him "That tyre's fine, no need to fit new ones, now **** off" :)

[stuartyboy]

Strathallen told him "That tyre's fine, no need to fit new ones, now **** off" :)

This threads went off at a tangent and accelerating away like an Busa on Nitro. What is being talked about here? Who's Strathallen - is that the Public School? Who's gonna tell who what?

Confused from Cheshire.

marc - did you get tyres? No matter what you fit you will notice a huge difference for the better as the d220's are ****e. IMO

[northwind]

Balls, strathearn. As in tyres.

[Kilted Ginger]

The saga continues.

Went to Strathern tyres at crieff on friday after work, slight mishap 2 miles from crieff but more on that later.
Pulled in, spoke to craig (i think) looked at the tyres, "theres f$%k all wrong with that, still a good couple of thousand miles in it" "its looking a bit feathered but that just tells me that your going round corners hard" You can give me £200 if you want and i'll change them but they dont need it" So I thanked him and off i toddled with my tail between my legs even more confused.

Now for the "slight mishap"

Run up Grangemouth - bridge of allen - dunblane - greenloaning - braco -creif. Good run, dry, sunny plenty of wrist, lots of overtakes great.
1 1/2 miles from crieff on the straight pulled ou to overtake and got planty f revs but no acceleration. pulled in slowed down and tried accelerating again, same result. Stopped engine off, visual check, all ok, up through gears and back down ok, started up, 1 - 6 - 1 to bite point on each ok. crept the last mile to the trye shop then headed home.

If I accelerated very cautiously i could eeek out 4.5k and reach 50-55mph in 6th (should be 73-75mph) anything above that and the revs shoot up with no acceleration and a strange vibration comes up through the seat.

Thought about calling AA but reckoned the time they pick up the dealer will be shut and I'll get dropped of at home and be stuck there whereas its only 4pm so i can do the 35 miles to the dealer and get it sorted. Caressed it home but things were getting stedily worse, by the time i got back to denny I could only trundle along at 9 -11mph in 1st gear and had to get off and walk beside it to get it up the hill to my house, This is 94 minutes after leaving crieff.

Long story short (too late) troled the forum, spoke to colinbal4 and northwind and concluded that my clutch had gone the way of the dodo.
Called stealer in morning to come and get bike, "we can get it on wednesday and will charge for pick up (6 miles)" Called AA, a very very nice man came listened to symptoms started it up and tried it, "your clutch is as fecked as a big fecked thing mate" on the back of truck into stealer.

Stealer, "right well get it looked at for you but cant do anything until you bring in your warranty book (which i'd left in kitchen) "
Me "but i bought this from you 3 months ago, you sold it to me, you know its one of your bikes"
Stealer "yeah but we cant look at it without the book.

Told them I'd drop the book in on monday and left before i said/ did something i/ he regreted.

So I am bikeless and suitably hacked off. sorry for the :rant: but not a happy camper.

Hope all who went out today enjoyed the run. :riding:

[stuartyboy]

**** sake. Talk about lucky white heather...

Clutch gone after 4k :shock:

Was the cupar you bought it from?

[northwind]

"right well get it looked at for you but cant do anything until you bring in your warranty book (which i'd left in kitchen) "
Me "but i bought this from you 3 months ago, you sold it to me, you know its one of your bikes"
Stealer "yeah but we cant look at it without the book.


That is pish. Never heard of anything so stupid.

[Dicky Ticker]

"Never heard of anything so stupid"--------------The way this saga is progressing I wait in anticipation to see what excuses will come out of the hat KG I can't remember if you have a new bike or a s/hand

[stuartyboy]

That is pish. Never heard of anything so stupid.

I would have to agree... if it were me I'd have tore a strip off them. Also if you bought it on their hp scheme then I'd be witholding payment. That gets their arses moving.

As for the charge to come and get it - tell them to fire that right where the sun don't shine. Sound like a right shower of kuntz. As its only 6 miles away I'm presuming it isn't cupar. It isnt Jim Alan is it? I have heard some stories.

Justmac...yes its a new bike. Marc got his a few days before me.

[Anonymous]

well at least its under warranty :?

[peterco]

[/quote]

I would have to agree... if it were me I'd have tore a strip off them. Also if you bought it on their hp scheme then I'd be witholding payment. [/quote]

You can talk to the HP company....but withholding payment is a bad thing.(my opinion)

It's Jim Allens in Falkirk.

Sorry to here of your trouble marc.


pete

[stuartyboy]

Nah...talking to them does feck all. You get a call centre and they won't escalate it to a line manager. Did it with my car before last. Dealers refused to pick up car as the gearbox packed in.

Put a temp hold on the DD and this sends a flag which gets escalated. You're allowed to do this like this under some credit regulation as they're defaulting on the offered service. Admitedly its a bit extreme but if you want a quick result, it works a treat. The dealer also gets a demerit mark from the manufacturer and they get some kind of penalty.

Jim Allan - the aprilia forum has a few savoury stories about them doing services, taking bits of the bikes, charging for new parts then selling the parts they took off.

[Kilted Ginger]

That is pish. Never heard of anything so stupid.
Spot on, thats why i try not to deal with them, they have a monopoly and abuse it/
I would have to agree... if it were me I'd have tore a strip off them. Also if you bought it on their hp scheme then I'd be witholding payment. That gets their arses moving.
I'm saving my hulk moment for when they tell me its something i've done and its not covered under warranty, then it will be green skin and hurling bikes out of shop window
As for the charge to come and get it - tell them to fire that right where the sun don't shine. Sound like a right shower of kuntz. As its only 6 miles away I'm presuming it isn't cupar. It isnt Jim Alan is it? I have heard some stories.
Yes its Jim allan, couple of good guys (mainly training dept) rest are not interested(although i've not dealt with the maintenance guys yet), place is a disaster, how they deal with this will be the telling moment but they are not off to a good start
Justmac...yes its a new bike. Marc got his a few days before me.

Stuck the warranty book and a covering note through the letterbox on the way to work this morning, Just called them, "yeah mate i fired it up and the clutch is goosed, the guy that does warranties isint in yet as it will be a warranty job \:D/ but it will just be a matter of booking it in, probably tomorrow mate", will keep you all updated , thanks for the support.

[Tiger 55]

Do please get an answer as to why they can't start work without the book. I'm a pretty imaginative sort of a chap and I can't think of anything even vaguely plausible :?

[northwind]

"yeah mate i fired it up and the clutch is goosed, the guy that does warranties isint in yet as it will be a warranty job \:D/ but it will just be a matter of booking it in, probably tomorrow mate", will keep you all updated , thanks for the support.

Tell them RandyO says it's definately just adjustment ;)

[SVTONYB]

Could the problems you were experiencing whilst 2 up be attributed to the clutch about to pack in as opposed to the tyre which was ok after all......just a thought.

[stuartyboy]

Do please get an answer as to why they can't start work without the book. I'm a pretty imaginative sort of a chap and I can't think of anything even vaguely plausible :?

Sounds like a puttery offery bull****tery cant be botheredery tactic. I'm presuming its the same as all the warranty returns no matter the industry. The dealer takes the hit. Costs them carriage for parts, admin time workshop time and they dont get **** all back from the manufacturer.

[Kilted Ginger]

:rave:
Just off the phone with dealer, Mr Suzuki has authorised the repair \:D/ so they've ordered new plates. They haven't stripped it down yet :?: but tried all the adjustments and it made no difference. They reckon it will be Saturday before i can pick it up :riding:

I asked a reason for the failure and he said "a badly adjusted clutch" I pointed out that it was their bike and the only people who had worked on it were them for its 600 mile service" "oh in that case the adjustment must have backed itself off" :smt078

Here's hoping when they get it opened up its nothing more serious than plates [-o< Does this mean i'll get a free coolant and oil change :roll:
Wont watter as it goes in for its 4k service next week anyway. :evil:

Northy, didn't get the Randyo comment :scratch:

[northwind]

Just being cheeky... Randy's started posting his adjustment link into every post with the word "clutch" in even when it's blatantly not going to help, it just amuses me ;)

[Kilted Ginger]

Just had a call from dealer, "thats your bike ready to pick up, It was the adjuster"

I'm not sure how convinced i am by this, and as why that wasnt the first thing they checked. Also I rode 40ish miles with the clutch slipping badly and not sure how much damage this will have done to it.

Going to have a converstaion face to face when i go for the bike, just wish i had a better idea what I am talking about.

Sure he told me they'd tried the adjustment origionally, as per previous post, Not a lot of trust happening here.

[Stu]

They phoned RandyO for advice after all.

[northwind]

Uh huh. Yeah, I'd be skeptical too. Unless the guy who spoke to you last didn't know what he was doing, of course. Sure you'd ask this anyway, but definately ask how the adjustment would go wrong so fast. Also, why it's tightened instead of loosening.

[Kilted Ginger]

of course. Sure you'd ask this anyway, but definately ask how the adjustment would go wrong so fast. Also, why it's tightened instead of loosening.

No didnt ask that, probably as i dont know the mechanics of clutch operation, other than plates or gear wheels coming together in some fashion.hence dont know if the fail position for a component would cause the clutch to slip or lock on, I would have thought that the clutch cable pulls some sort of compression system apart which would allow the plates to spin without touching each other so any failure of the cable or adjuster should lock on the clutch in whatever gear you were in at the time???.
(I have been trying to find a bike mechanics or maintenance course to attend but no luck so far) He hid say that the sudden onset in slip was more like adjuster failure rather than plates which ted to gradually loose grip.

However I did ask him to explain why the problem worsened over the ensuing 35 miles which he couldnt :scratch: , did ask him why i was told prevously the adjustment was making no difference, he didnt know, and frankly demanded that he fit the new clutch plates which they'd ordered from suxuki, which he agreed to do. Obviously I have no way of checking he has done any of this when I get the bike back on saturday ](*,) .

Am i right in assuming that the adjuster is directly under the clutch cover and far easier to access than removing / stripping down the entire clutch? and that they could have played with this without removing or even inspecting the plates and the rest of the clutch.

[colinbal4]

Ask him to keep your old clutch plates and let you see them (just out of interest!!). You should also get an invoice for the new clutch plates even though it will not show a cost to be paid by you.

[pod]

Particularly with new clutches as they bed down, the free play (1/4 turn of the screw from pushrod contact at the adjuster) dissapears.
What happens next is a positive feedback F up scenario, with the free play gone the clutch wears more ( partial slipping) the more it slips the more the free play vanishes. left long enough the plates will cook and warp.
Result new clutch plates and another bed down session.
Once its all settled this adjustment becomes neede on a longer time interval , but with new clutches it needs looked at frequently in the first 200 - 1000 miles, alot depends on rider technique , the more you slip the clutch the more often you need to check the adjustment.

in a nutshell the free play vanishes as the clutch wears in.
Its an easy check.
Remove sprocket cover.
Undo centre screw locknut, unscrew centre screw a bit, then screw in till it touches the push rod , just , resistance felt, then backj off a quarter turn and hold in position while you nip up the locknut.

Either the dealer failed to check this or you slip/ abuse the clutch a lot.

probably the dealers fault since Im sure you dont torture your clutch. :?
Cheers
pod

[Kilted Ginger]

The final installment, hopefully.

Hadnt had a call by 12 today :evil: so called Jim Allan, yes its ready to pick up.
Got a lift in of other half went in to get my baby.
"that will be £20 please" WTF! what for, "coolant and oil the warranty does not cover that"
Let me get this straight, I've had to have the oil replaced during a faulty clutch replacement and I've to pay for it?? "yes and your not getting the bike back until you do"
After a rather heated and loud discussion, I paid the £20 just to get out of JIM ALLANS, got on my bike and headed home, happy to be riding again.

Got home (6 miles) but when i got off bike saw a wet trail across my drive, touched it "oily" but no smell, quickly checked bike, oil ol, brake fluid ok, radiator cap not on properly, rhs of bike covered in antifreeze, Checked cap, unly on at one side, and paint al chipped off and nice teeth marks in cap from mole grips or stillsons by the look of it. MOLE GRIPS ON A RAD CAP!!

Long story short. Turned green, burst out of shirt. called and screamed down phone, incompetent, useless, malingering, nogood (you get the idea)
Filled up with water, got detergent out and scrubbed and hosed antifreeze of my drive, rode back to JIM ALLANS (rather fast) ranted some more in shop, wasnt us, we put it back on right, we didnt use mole grips on it.
Got sys drained and refilled with antifreeze, demanded new cap, one now on order, 2 hours this took, saturday afternoon fecked!!! Left never to return (after I pick up new cap on tuesday) Useless incompetent self obsessed, uninterested un customer satisfying ripoff cowboys. Do not go near JIM ALLANS, or do so at your peril.

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone and do not represent those of the site or its members.

Breathe, breathe

Anyway, got bike back had a quick wee run and all is good in the world again.
Marc

[Stu]

Here's hoping for you never to need their assistance :roll: again

[northwind]

Go Jim Allen. Bloody hell...

[scooby2102]

sheet, nearly bought off them a couple of times as well, will be stayin well clear now.

hope you have more luck with the bike from now on in mate

[Tiger 55]

Well of course, this is just your opinion and one bad experience shouldn't colour our impressions of Jim Allen as a whole.

But I will NEVER go there for anything now. Thanks for the warning.

Tiger

PS - "Never say never. Oops, said it twice."

[Kilted Ginger]

9 days on and still waiting on the replacement radiator cover.

Had the 4k service done at cupar on Saturday. Vstrom to play on for 90 mins, sv nekid for 90 mins, nice friendly chat with sale satff and service bods, couldn't be friendlier or more helpful. Chalk and cheese, cant recommend them highly enough.

didnt bother telling them the saga but when I went back for the bike the guy asked if i'd been playing with the clutch as the adjuster set up was crap, and politely suggested I shouldnt be messing about with it if I wasnt sure what i was doing. So I told him a dealer installed a new clutch 1 week ago, he said there's no way a mechanic left a clutch like that, so I showed him the invoice, he was gobsmacked.

said as its a new clutch it might need a wee tweek in a few hundred miles so i'll be looking for some assistance in the not to distant future (probably before the blackpool run)

[Stu]

said as its a new clutch it might need a wee tweek in a few hundred miles so i'll be looking for some assistance in the not to distant future (probably before the blackpool run)

I think Jim Allen's is close to you

HTH

.

[Special Mike]

Ah... you bought from Jim Allan. Bunch of cowboys and I won't deal with them ever again. The aprilia boys could tell you some stories. Would be interesting to get the beebs rogue traders to go in there and prod around.

[northwind]

I think Jim Allen's is close to you

HTH

.

You're a gent :)

Kilted Ginger, put me down as a last resort- not brilliant with clutches but at least I'm not Jim Allen's ;)