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shrek01
21-09-06, 11:06 PM
Hi All
Terence
21-09-06, 11:09 PM
you got ripped off when you bought your PC as well mate... doesn't even have a spell check :shock:
same happened to me.
got an 02 plate, only later i discover that ive got an 01 bike,
nevermind, the 2 models of the CBR are exactly the same, so look at it on the plus side . . . cheaper insurance :)
SOGA, you were missold something. You have a few years to get it sorted. Research Sales Of Goods Act, print it out, take it to the bike shop & slap it on the counter.
Next, start chatting about the issues you have with them nice & loudly, in the shop. If the manager asks you into the office, be polite, but firm, you want to stay where you are.
Ideally, do this on a saturday. See how long it is until they realise that this will hurt their future sales from customers that you don't even know.
Word of mouth spreads fast!
Model identification is usually fairly easy on Hondas. There should be a label under either the rider's or pillion's seat which has both the colour code and the model on it.
Also gives you an indication of whether the bike has been resprayed a different colour (yet still matches the log book). Rs are reds, P or PB are blues, N or NL are black, white or grey - roughly, Honda do seem to be a bit haphazard in some of their colour codes I think they picked some by putting them up on a dart board!
As it's in a well covered place and often actually stuck to the frame it's not often that they are missing.
Never just take the registration as proof of age, it's quite often that dealers will have old stock that can get registered upto three years after it's production age!
K, its even easier than that, the V5c should state quite clearly, the model. So all this, oh, we didnt know crap.
So, what Baph said. Although i would go to the talking loudly route.
Warren, same thing bud. States on the Log book, that its a K1 thus making it a 2001 bike.
Mines a K1 registered in 2000 :D
Quick question for Shrek01:
That was your first post on here; why have you posted about a CBR600F on and SV Forum?
Are you touting your story on all biking message-boards or did you just pick this one at random?
fizzwheel
22-09-06, 08:28 AM
1st things first, Off to Citizens advice, get some proper advice from people who know what they are talking about.
When you have got all this go back to that dealer and ask to speak to the manager in person, Be polite, but firm. Personally I wouldnt go in there ranting and raving about how you have been messed about. Its not going to get you anywhere. I never used to help customers who shouted at me. Even if they were in the right.
Sounds like somebody hasnt done their homework properly in the dealership and they've made a mistake. How long have you had the bike ? Might be time to take the whole bike back and get a refund if you can ?
Terence
22-09-06, 09:14 AM
Quick question for Shrek01:
That was your first post on here; why have you posted about a CBR600F on and SV Forum?
Are you touting your story on all biking message-boards or did you just pick this one at random?
The word "hit", "nail" and "head" come to mind.
Credit to the other forum members for trying to help him though... aren't we just a nice bunch? (meant without a trace of sarcasm... sv650.org is genuinely helpful!)
T'was onl after someone (probably a mod) removed the dealership name that the thought occured to me that it could just simply be an attempt at bad PR towards the dealership.
Oh well, unless they post back, I suppose we'll never know.
instigator
22-09-06, 09:51 AM
Pm me and tell me who it was.
I for one don't want to give them my custom. :roll: Even if the mods want me to.
Mr Toad
22-09-06, 09:57 AM
Quick question for Shrek01:
That was your first post on here; why have you posted about a CBR600F on and SV Forum?
Are you touting your story on all biking message-boards or did you just pick this one at random?
Beat me to it.
Strange first post, but welcome to the .org anyway
K, its even easier than that, the V5c should state quite clearly, the model. So all this, oh, we didnt know crap.
I know, but it constantly amazes me just how many people will never ask to see the log book or even just the service history when looking at a bike in a dealership.
It's almost like there's some strange filter on teh front door that removes customer's common sense as they pass through it.
Which probably explains why we all spend so much money in there adn always think up at least five questions to ask them when we are half way back home! :roll: :wink:
fizzwheel
22-09-06, 10:13 AM
I rmoved the dealership & MD name from the post before I moved this thread to Bikes Talk, its not really a subject for Idle Banter.
We've had issues before with people naming and shaming dealers, I dont wish for the org to get involved in mud slinging between two parties.
If anybody wants to know the dealer please PM me.
Remeber everybody has good and bad experiences with dealers.
lukemillar
22-09-06, 10:13 AM
Quick question for Shrek01:
That was your first post on here; why have you posted about a CBR600F on and SV Forum?
Are you touting your story on all biking message-boards or did you just pick this one at random?
Good point Jabba - God damm Honda riders, coming on here and spreading the word about the sensible side of motorcycling! Oh wait hang on a second, don't you own.............! :wink: :D :lol:
shrek01
22-09-06, 10:47 PM
i guess thats why you ride a suzuki see below
you guys are touchy :oops:
With good reason. You join a forum and libel a dealer in your first post which could cause legal implications for this forum. But I guess you arent aware of the new libel cases where forum posts are accepted as evidence of libel.
And simply because youre unhappy and angry with how you have been treated does not give you the right to destroy a businesses reputation.
Because for all you know, you may be the exception and you could seriously damage a business and cost them a lot of money simply for shouting your mouth off. And if they find out about this it will cost you in damages for libel far far far more than youre trying to recover from them.
Asking people to "spread the word" is tantamount to asking people to libel the dealer. And anyone who does could also be sued but unlike you, they wont actually have any hard evidence but just your hearsay which would be inadmissable in a court of law. So are you really asking for people to put themselves in the firing line based on your experience rather than their own?
Tbh, the best thing to do is go seek some proper legal advice. Or pm Ed as hes our resident legal bod. I do understand your anger and why you have posted this - but quite simply this is not the way to go about it and you could end up with a bigger problem than you started with.
you guys are touchy :oops:
With good reason. You join a forum and libel a dealer in your first post which could cause legal implications for this forum. But I guess you arent aware of the new libel cases where forum posts are accepted as evidence of libel.
And simply because youre unhappy and angry with how you have been treated does not give you the right to destroy a businesses reputation.
Because for all you know, you may be the exception and you could seriously damage a business and cost them a lot of money simply for shouting your mouth off. And if they find out about this it will cost you in damages for libel far far far more than youre trying to recover from them.
Asking people to "spread the word" is tantamount to asking people to libel the dealer. And anyone who does could also be sued but unlike you, they wont actually have any hard evidence but just your hearsay which would be inadmissable in a court of law. So are you really asking for people to put themselves in the firing line based on your experience rather than their own?
Tbh, the best thing to do is go seek some proper legal advice. Or pm Ed as hes our resident legal bod. I do understand your anger and why you have posted this - but quite simply this is not the way to go about it and you could end up with a bigger problem than you started with.
And hear endith the sermon. :lol:
For the record I have a 2001 bike registered in 2003 so ner ner to Viney.
1. 'Bike deception' - you are coming on far too strong. What evidence do you have that you have been deceived? Deception = fraud. Fraud = intent, with knowledge. Yet you say yourself that they took it misstakenly, or 'bad admin'. That does not indicate deception to me. This is where the libel arises. It's all too easy to cause serious damage to someone's business on the internet, and you will disappear into the sunset leaving the administrators of this site to answer for why they published a libel. And you've repeated the name of the dealer.
2. So you're off to court. Have you taken any advice on this? Do you know what you have to do? I strongly suggest that you get some advice before you start spending money. Hint - suggest you look very carefully at your evidence and see whether it is cogent and compelling. All I hear at the moment is someone bleating about how unfair life is.
Ed
And hear endith the sermon. :lol:
For the record I have a 2001 bike registered in 2003 so ner ner to Viney.
Sorry... didnt mean to come across like that, just saying it as I see it as per my blunt and to the point usual style... :oops: :oops: :P :lol:
I think mines a 99 SV on a 2000 plate. It does happen - the usual reason being a dealer gets a new bike in, for example in 01, but doesnt register it or sell it until 03 hence it gets a new plate for an older model. Doesnt actually mean theres anything wrong with the bike. :wink: Well there wasnt until I started binning mine :oops: :wink: :P :lol:
As said, I would pm Ed and get some proper legal advice or if not, get some from a solicitor and speak to them. :D
For the record I have a 2001 bike registered in 2003 so ner ner to Viney.
Just out of curiosity, does your insurance view the bike as an '01 or an '03 bike with regards to value?
Model identification is usually fairly easy on Hondas. There should be a label under either the rider's or pillion's seat which has both the colour code and the model on it.
Also gives you an indication of whether the bike has been resprayed a different colour (yet still matches the log book). Rs are reds, P or PB are blues, N or NL are black, white or grey - roughly, Honda do seem to be a bit haphazard in some of their colour codes I think they picked some by putting them up on a dart board!
As it's in a well covered place and often actually stuck to the frame it's not often that they are missing.
Never just take the registration as proof of age, it's quite often that dealers will have old stock that can get registered upto three years after it's production age!
yep i realise that now, :)
it was my first bike, when i knew nothing about bikes, i just bought the bike cos i liked the look of it.
i dont really care to be honest how old it is, its still MY bike and i love it.
For the record I have a 2001 bike registered in 2003 so ner ner to Viney.
Just out of curiosity, does your insurance view the bike as an '01 or an '03 bike with regards to value?
my 01 bike on an 02 plate is put down as an 01 bike by insurers, i do declare that its on an 02 plate but its the model that counts they tell me.
For the record I have a 2001 bike registered in 2003 so ner ner to Viney.
Just out of curiosity, does your insurance view the bike as an '01 or an '03 bike with regards to value?
They view is as it is. A pile sh*t* :lol:
It's insured as a 2001 model registered in 2003. :)
Mines a 2000 model SV on a 99 T plate.
I'm glad you posted it here mate :) . SV riders ride out with other bike riders don't they? And SV riders buy bikes from the same dealers don't they? OK OK now you get it everyone yes? This bloke don't want you lot getting stung like he has been.
I think thanks are more appropriate.
I'm glad you posted it here mate :) . SV riders ride out with other bike riders don't they? And SV riders buy bikes from the same dealers don't they? OK OK now you get it everyone yes? This bloke don't want you lot getting stung like he has been.
I think thanks are more appropriate.
'Stung'? Prove it. Where is the expert valuation? Where is the evidence of deception? It's no good to start bleating, you need evidence. That means proof.
Without evidence, all this talk of court is a pile of horse****.
21QUEST
23-09-06, 08:12 PM
I'm glad you posted it here mate :) . SV riders ride out with other bike riders don't they? And SV riders buy bikes from the same dealers don't they? OK OK now you get it everyone yes? This bloke don't want you lot getting stung like he has been.
I think thanks are more appropriate.
'Stung'? Prove it. Where is the expert valuation? Where is the evidence of deception? It's no good to start bleating, you need evidence. That means proof.
Without evidence, all this talk of court is a pile of horse****.
There you have it. Straight from the horses mouth :? :P
(couldn;t resist Ed :wink: )
Cheers
Ben
I'm glad you posted it here mate :) . SV riders ride out with other bike riders don't they? And SV riders buy bikes from the same dealers don't they? OK OK now you get it everyone yes? This bloke don't want you lot getting stung like he has been.
I think thanks are more appropriate.
So thanks should go to the guy for putting the forum mods and owner into a legally questionable position? That its ok to libel people and businesses with no evidence and the consequences that would bring should be thanked? Sorry, he may have a legitimate grievance but there are ways and means to air it legitimately without consequences for the forums he has posted this on and this wasnt the way to do it imo.
As Ed says, you need EVIDENCE. How do you know that he hasnt just been sacked by said firm and isnt a disgruntled ex-employee out to kill the business? Quite simply you dont. And you have no evidence should you "spread the word", well not any that would be admissable in a court of law.
I also doubt shrek01 actually has any evidence which could prove deception. What he has got is a mistake coupled with bad customer service. I have worked enough fraud cases to know exactly how hard it is to prove something was deliberate and hes got the chance Id give a snowball at the bottom of mount etna. I hope Im wrong but from what Ive read so far he has no argument against the "mistake" defence, to prove deception you have to prove beyond doubt its not sheer incompetence or a genuine mistake.
If this is a one off, then its not fair to libel a company for one mistake and basically suggest that everyone else is going to get treated as badly.
Like Ed says, this is horse**** until its proven with real evidence in court.
For the record I have a 2001 bike registered in 2003 so ner ner to Viney.
Just out of curiosity, does your insurance view the bike as an '01 or an '03 bike with regards to value?
my 01 bike on an 02 plate is put down as an 01 bike by insurers, i do declare that its on an 02 plate but its the model that counts they tell me.
I've got an '00 bike on 55 plate! Am I the winner? It's a parallel import which the dealer never shifted until last year, I bought it 2nd hand with 600 miles on the clock.
I'm glad you posted it here mate :) . SV riders ride out with other bike riders don't they? And SV riders buy bikes from the same dealers don't they? OK OK now you get it everyone yes? This bloke don't want you lot getting stung like he has been.
I think thanks are more appropriate.
'Stung'? Prove it. Where is the expert valuation? Where is the evidence of deception? It's no good to start bleating, you need evidence. That means proof.
Without evidence, all this talk of court is a pile of horse****.
Ok Ed maybe stung was too strong a word for it however if I had purchased my bike from this dealer and the same had happened to me I'd be miffed to. Not only did this guy purchase his bike from this dealer he kitted himself out with all the top gear. You would think that a customer like that would be someone they'd like to keep as a customer, wouldn't you?
Just for the record he isn't an ex employee or someone with a grudge about anything other than this issue.
He's an SVers riding buddy and a damn good buddy that. All he wants is people to know how he's been treated with regards to his purchase of his bike.
Sorry if I worded it wrongly Ed. (BTW watch out for the horse**** especially on corners, can be dangerous you know).
shrek01
24-09-06, 08:17 AM
ll
shrek01
24-09-06, 08:35 AM
so
Red ones
24-09-06, 11:53 AM
Can I suggest a reword?
Bike advertised and sold as 2000FY, receipt shows 2000FY. Bike appears to be 1999FX (though it could be registered as a 2000FX). Dealer claims this was a genuine mistake.
It appears that you MAY have been sold the bike under a misdescription whether this be accidental or not.
I suggest you approach the dealer and point out the obvious mistake that has been made. If you have purchased an FX believing you paid for and expressed that you wanted an FY you may have grounds to review the sale. I would have no qualms about letting other people know about your predictament, however, I would be very cautious about writing anything that may be seen as defamitory as the dealer would have every right to claim libel (if the message has spread far enough they then may be able to claim a considerable loss of trade thanks to the posting - this is what LynW is pointing out). Personally? If Ed told me to be careful I would be careful - he's on a roll this week!
ArtyLady
24-09-06, 01:05 PM
(BTW watch out for the horse**** especially on corners, can be dangerous you know).
Now dont start - weve had the horsepoops debate already :roll: :wink: :lol:
if any piece of my post was not true then i would not have posted it i can asure you all statements are true
ps read up on libel law
just rember who is screwing who the dealers or the buyers :?:
:roll:
Ed doesnt need to read up on libel, HE's A SOLICITOR already. And more qualified than you reading a book will ever be. I know about evidence - years of fraud investigations and working for the National Crime Squad means I know more than you will about admissibility and what standard of evidence is required from reading a book. BOTH of us are telling you you need to stop and think about what youve done and are doing, but hey, I guess a book is better than two experienced people trying to advise you. :roll:
Hell, Im not going to bother trying to advise you anymore. Clearly you know better than people more qualified, but please do not continue to post what are until you win your case effectivel libellous comments which put this forum into a legally questionable position.
I am telling you now, what you have isnt enough to support your deception allegation in court. It isnt enough to prove the deliberacy required and all it shows is a **** up and bad customer service and that means saying anything else [ie deception] IS libel.
I do have one question though which is quite pivotal to any court case, what are you basing your prices on? Where did you get this notion the FX is worth £400 less?
fizzwheel
24-09-06, 01:33 PM
As you seem to be so well informed why didnt you point this out to the dealer before you bought the bike ?
Seems to me like you've realised this after you signed the paperwork perhaps afte doing some research after you've owned the bike for a while.. I dont know where you stand legally, but I'd imagine bleating about it on a public forum might not be in your best interests when you get to court.
How much difference is there in value between the two different models of bike ?
Warthog
24-09-06, 02:40 PM
1 vin number 10th diget is an X = FX model 1999
2 recipte sold item CBR600FY 2000 = CBR600FY 2000 Model
3 registered 2000
4 advertised in show room as CBR600FY 2000
5 colour scheme purple below red tank and top faring = FX model (mine)
6 white tail blue tank red lower fairing = FY model
That sounds like good evidence to me, surely? Just go back to the dealers and let them know, hopefully they will sort it out.
Red ones
24-09-06, 04:39 PM
Do watch out basis evidence on colour schemes. Manufacturers are very fickle and often produce the "wrong" colour for a model - it all depends on the paint shop on the day and how close they are to a model change. Just take a look at the curvy SV and 2 shades of red - they changed mid year!
shrek01
24-09-06, 09:25 PM
ok guys and gals
chilled out a bit now i can see you help
if i new then what i new now i would not of had this problem i tried to pass the bike off as a FY at some other garages today bey no luck they new it was a FX :(
Red ones
25-09-06, 06:21 AM
ok guys and gals
chilled out a bit now i can see you help
if i new then what i new now i would not of had this problem i tried to pass the bike off as a FY at some other garages today bey no luck they new it was a FX :(
You have evidenced on a public forum that you believe the bike to be an FX, knowingly attempting to pass it off as an FY for reward is fraud!!!
Just one quick question - do you actually like the bike you've bought? :?
To be honest all that this really highlights is that people should always check the vehicle's details, whether buying privately or from a dealer, and that goes for those working at dealerships too.
Never judge it's age purely buy the registration, always check the log book (V5c).
The bike may well have been sold as a 2000, the original dealer may even have said "Yeah mate, we can still get one in those colours." Ever since it has been bought and sold as an FY with noone taking any more notice that its registration.
You said it was originally traded into this current dealer as an FY, and that was how they valued it for the trade in, am I correct?
In which case they got 'stung' there too, yes?
There are some Honda's that the only difference in model between years is the colour schemes. *
* I can say this for a fact as I work in a Honda dealer's parts dept and have seen the specs.
Now if this bike had come to us for parts we always select them using the VIN of the vehicle - that way Honda's system will bring up only the Parts Catalogue for that individual vehicle (including it's colour variants). So if you'd have said it was an FY and the EPC showed it to be an FX we would have noticed and have told you there and then.
It just seems that noone has really checked the vehicle's details when exchanging it until now - so congratulations for learning and highlighting a valuable lesson.
It doesn't matter where you are uying a vehicle from, always check the details as mistakes happen.
By all means be annoyed, at yourself, at the dealer - but to knowingly declare the bike's model falsely... that frankly sucks dude.
Let's face it, where the difference in model's is only the colour schemes, chances are the difference in price is likely to be fairly minimal too. An FX in better condition would sell for more than an FY in poor nick anyway. :roll:
Red ones
25-09-06, 08:27 AM
How many times have you guys gone into a shop and bought (say) a TV. When the one in the box arrives you find the model number doesn't quite match the model number on the one on display? You then think quickly on your feet "Am I getting a better deal than the one I thought I was getting?" Happens with loads of purchases, you then have to think quickly, make your mind up and decide to voice concern with the vendor or not.
shrek01
25-09-06, 08:30 PM
Ok
lukemillar
25-09-06, 09:18 PM
Just one quick question - do you actually like the bike you've bought? :?
:winner:
Bottom line really. You obviously liked the bike, otherwise you wouldn't have bought it. At the end of the day, something is worth however much someone is willing to pay for it, not what it is written in a Parkers guide. I spent a few hundred pounds more than I really needed to for my bike, but I am very happy and don't have any regrets! My advice - get and ride it before it get's too cold! :wink:
Ok done some more digging today turns out according to the DVLA the bike was made a sold in the same month? July 2000
Now I find that mighty strange, why would it have a FX VIN Number on it then?
I am beginning to think the original/first seller has being a naughty boy may be registering the bike in 2000 which is ok, but saying its made in the same year and month as well?
Oh and for the record
I do not intend to sell the bike as a FY as I know its fraud posing it as a FY was a test of integrity
Why would a bike get registered with the wrong year?
Let me give you an example, bike dealers usually get their book keepers [b/k] to do the admin, including registering the vehicles. These people simply do not have the detailed bike knowledge you expect them to have - theyre admin staff not sales people or mechanics.
So the dealer sends his b/k to register this bike near financial year end with a VAT return due. B/k is a bit flustered, puts correct VIN down but puts year 2000 down for model without thinking as its being registered in 2000. Nothing dodgy there, just simple human error. Its a possibility to consider and one you should give measure to before you automatically presume the whole things dodgy.
21QUEST
25-09-06, 09:38 PM
Lynw , I know you mean well but ever thought of taking 'charm' classes :roll: :wink:
If it worked for me, it can work for anyone 8)
Cheers
Ben
Red ones
26-09-06, 07:03 AM
Ok done some more digging today turns out according to the DVLA the bike was made a sold in the same month? July 2000
Now I find that mighty strange, why would it have a FX VIN Number on it then?
I am beginning to think the original/first seller has being a naughty boy may be registering the bike in 2000 which is ok, but saying its made in the same year and month as well?
Oh and for the record
I do not intend to sell the bike as a FY as I know its fraud posing it as a FY was a test of integrity
Why would a bike get registered with the wrong year?
Let me give you an example, bike dealers usually get their book keepers [b/k] to do the admin, including registering the vehicles. These people simply do not have the detailed bike knowledge you expect them to have - theyre admin staff not sales people or mechanics.
So the dealer sends his b/k to register this bike near financial year end with a VAT return due. B/k is a bit flustered, puts correct VIN down but puts year 2000 down for model without thinking as its being registered in 2000. Nothing dodgy there, just simple human error. Its a possibility to consider and one you should give measure to before you automatically presume the whole things dodgy.
Is this the opposite of pre-registering? Often you come across things like a 2000 model pre-registered in 1999 etc. If so is this a case of post-registering?
lukemillar
26-09-06, 07:49 AM
Ok done some more digging today turns out according to the DVLA the bike was made a sold in the same month? July 2000
Now I find that mighty strange, why would it have a FX VIN Number on it then?
I am beginning to think the original/first seller has being a naughty boy may be registering the bike in 2000 which is ok, but saying its made in the same year and month as well?
Oh and for the record
I do not intend to sell the bike as a FY as I know its fraud posing it as a FY was a test of integrity
Why would a bike get registered with the wrong year?
Let me give you an example, bike dealers usually get their book keepers [b/k] to do the admin, including registering the vehicles. These people simply do not have the detailed bike knowledge you expect them to have - theyre admin staff not sales people or mechanics.
So the dealer sends his b/k to register this bike near financial year end with a VAT return due. B/k is a bit flustered, puts correct VIN down but puts year 2000 down for model without thinking as its being registered in 2000. Nothing dodgy there, just simple human error. Its a possibility to consider and one you should give measure to before you automatically presume the whole things dodgy.
Is this the opposite of pre-registering? Often you come across things like a 2000 model pre-registered in 1999 etc. If so is this a case of post-registering?
I thought pre-registering just means that the dealer has had it registered in his name first, so when you buy it, it will have 1 previous owner on the log book, even though it is a new bike.
21QUEST
26-09-06, 08:09 AM
Ok done some more digging today turns out according to the DVLA the bike was made a sold in the same month? July 2000
Now I find that mighty strange, why would it have a FX VIN Number on it then?
I am beginning to think the original/first seller has being a naughty boy may be registering the bike in 2000 which is ok, but saying its made in the same year and month as well?
Oh and for the record
I do not intend to sell the bike as a FY as I know its fraud posing it as a FY was a test of integrity
Why would a bike get registered with the wrong year?
Let me give you an example, bike dealers usually get their book keepers [b/k] to do the admin, including registering the vehicles. These people simply do not have the detailed bike knowledge you expect them to have - theyre admin staff not sales people or mechanics.
So the dealer sends his b/k to register this bike near financial year end with a VAT return due. B/k is a bit flustered, puts correct VIN down but puts year 2000 down for model without thinking as its being registered in 2000. Nothing dodgy there, just simple human error. Its a possibility to consider and one you should give measure to before you automatically presume the whole things dodgy.
Is this the opposite of pre-registering? Often you come across things like a 2000 model pre-registered in 1999 etc. If so is this a case of post-registering?
I thought pre-registering just means that the dealer has had it registered in his name first, so when you buy it, it will have 1 previous owner on the log book, even though it is a new bike.
Yes, that is correct.
Cheers
Ben
Is this the opposite of pre-registering? Often you come across things like a 2000 model pre-registered in 1999 etc. If so is this a case of post-registering?
I thought pre-registering just means that the dealer has had it registered in his name first, so when you buy it, it will have 1 previous owner on the log book, even though it is a new bike.
You're right on the point of what a pre-reg is - it's often done to hit 'sales' figures set by the manufacturer rather than the dealership itself.
It's also done to get early released demo models on the road.
Post-registered bikes are often ones that have been used for front of house displays or are in an 'unpopular' colour scheme.
Though it can some times often happen when a model has only had a cosmetic change with rumours of a major overhaul the following year. This can cause slow sales for a couple of years followed by a rush of sales for the 'new' model - leaving old stock to be shifted, which can take some time when you've got spanky new bike in store with a manufacturer prescribed deal on them.
Strangely this is more common with Honda that any other manufacturer apparently, because there is more 'brand' loyalty in general with Honda owners, sometimes even model specific. :roll:
Red ones
26-09-06, 08:39 AM
So...
What we have is a post-registered FX, first registered in 2000 and therefore it will appear on the majority of systems as an FY by default.
I had the opposite with a Corsa I owned. It was first registered 7 months too early - it was a high output SRi that I was regularly told could not have been first registered in February as the model was not released until September. Eventually insurance took my word for it. Garages routinely told me I was thick and they knew better - I used to book it in for work, tell them, they told me I was wrong, I would say "OK I'll pick it up at lunch time" I would phone at lunch time and the garage would say "We can't seem to find the parts - the standard parts for that model don't fit" to which the reply would be "Would you like to take my word for it now?"
SV650Racer
26-09-06, 08:41 AM
Why would a bike get registered with the wrong year?
Let me give you an example, bike dealers usually get their book keepers [b/k] to do the admin, including registering the vehicles. These people simply do not have the detailed bike knowledge you expect them to have - theyre admin staff not sales people or mechanics.
So the dealer sends his b/k to register this bike near financial year end with a VAT return due. B/k is a bit flustered, puts correct VIN down but puts year 2000 down for model without thinking as its being registered in 2000. Nothing dodgy there, just simple human error. Its a possibility to consider and one you should give measure to before you automatically presume the whole things dodgy.
Registering can be done in two ways dependant on the system used. Back then it would have had a document issued by the manufacturer which stated year, model and Vin etc. The dealer would then allocate a Reg number to it..and keepers name and address (thats all) and then take it to the DVLA to get it registered. If a mistake was made (which is near on impossible as you cant change the year etc) then the DVLA would pick it up and refuse to register the vehicle - you think the post office is tough when you Tax your bike..try this lot!!
Some bikes are pre reg which means they are registered to the dealer as the first owner first due to discounts or the fact that the bike cant be reg in the next period due to emmisions laws changing etc. It still wont go onto a reg that is earlier than the bike...it can go on a newer plate though as the bike can be registered late.
TBH..always check the bikes documents when viewing a bike private or from a dealer. I always make a point of showing the potential buyer the whole document pack pointing out the date of registration and exact model. Trust me you would be amazed at the amount of people that sigh when i do this like i am wasting their time!
shrek01
26-09-06, 08:34 PM
ok
Biker Biggles
26-09-06, 09:28 PM
All seems simple to me.If you can prove that the dealer represented the bike as an FY and sold it to you as such,and the bike is not an FY you have a case under the consumer rights laws.If you can't prove that,you don't.
My point is i have bought and paid for what i belived was a FY 2000 but in reality i was really buying a 99 FX unknow to myself my beef is that i have paid over the odds for an older bike
](*,)
I asked you earlier and you didnt reply so will ask again. On what are you basing your pricing and your assertion you paid over the odds for the bike?
As K pointed out earlier, there are a lot of factors which determine the price not just the model. If the model was a mint example of an FX you would quite probably have paid about the same.
Thing is, you've said you've had the bike 10 months. And you've only just started kicking up a fuss and checked? Its a bit late in all honesty now to start alleging deception by the dealer for something that is in part a mistake on your part for not checking at time of sale.
And as far as the dealers concerned, you could have run the bike ragged in that 10 months and affected the amount they'll px or buy it back off you. Would have been a whole different ball game if you were talking a bike you bought last week or last month.
shrek01
26-09-06, 10:13 PM
the same book that all dealers use the classes guide 05-06
the same book that all dealers use the classes guide 05-06
But it is just that - a guideline. And a price can vary from that depending on a lot of things - mods, care of bike by previous owner, mileage on bike, etc etc. It simply is not a definitive price and you can not treat it as such. A defence solicitor will rip you to shreds in court on this because you cant prove the bike wasnt worth more at the time in terms of condition, mods, market prices and conditions etc.
My advice right now - get legal advice asap and be honest about what you have done. And make sure every forum you have posted on is updated and any reference to dealer deleted.
And on that note, Ill leave the thread....
21QUEST
26-09-06, 11:30 PM
All seems simple to me.If you can prove that the dealer represented the bike as an FY and sold it to you as such,and the bike is not an FY you have a case under the consumer rights laws.If you can't prove that,you don't.
..so all the essays condensed into one short paragraph. There is a God indeed.
The point is that he bought a bike which he thought was an FY and not an FX. He feels conned and rightly so. As I understand it, the bike was sold as an 2000FY and not a 2000FX(totally different ball game). That is the issue and really can't see what all the pontification is about. Easy for some people to sit down typing away in a condescending manner when it's not them that have paid the money out. IMO like :roll:
Cheers
Ben
shrek01
28-09-06, 08:26 PM
here
Peter Parker
28-09-06, 08:45 PM
How about?
1: Admiting that the dealer had you over
2: Acknowledging that the forum is pretty much agreed that reasonable conversation may have resolved this
3: Acknowledge that it is now 10 months down the line
4: Stuff the dealer and never go there again
5: Shut up
So you bought a bike 10 months ago and didn't check all the documentation and have only just found out that the models don't quite add up?
**** happens, it could be a genuine mistake by the dealer or it might not. Whatever, you have owned the bike for 10 months so quite frankly it doesn't really matter.
Do you enjoy riding the bike? If your answer is yes then shut up and get on your bike and have fun. If your answer is no then sell it and get one you want.
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