over confident filtering

[grecian9]

OK, I've been riding for 2 months now and I think I'm getting over confident with my filtering. The traffic was very heavy this morning so I was blasting up the middle right up to the roundabout. This left me in the middle of two cars waiting to pull out. It's quite a small roundabout and the car on my right was a nippy Peugeot 107. I caused the 107 to brake as I cut in front of it on the roundabout and I got beeped at. :oops:

So experienced riders - tell me, would you (a) just accelerate away harder, or (b) pull in behind the lead car at a roundabout?

I didn't accerelate away harder because it's a tight roundabout and the road was greasy (and I'm a newbie). Up to now I've been able to time it so that I can beat the car onto the roundabout but today it wasn't possible.

[21QUEST]

It's all in the observation and your abilitie with regards to bike control.

Example if you are not too confident in the wet, then you give yourself a bit more time when pulling out. Someone like me(I dare say) would need less time.

Cheers
Ben

[PsychoCannon]

Nothing wrong with being confident mate, its just learning where and when to use it ;)

Personally I feel a bit rude and unsafe pulling across cars onto a round about but usually cars will let you go first if you pull up far enough.

If the traffic is tight and its a small round about I usually push up to the front car and pull in behind it

If it's a big road/roundabout I'll wait for the front cars to pull out then move out with them keeping between them, sort of like a synchronised manouver thing ;)

The latter confuses the hell out of some drivers though so It's upto you if you want to try it ;)

At the end of the day though you just have to be aware people may pull out on you so don't hoon it too fast if you don't have a quick way out ;)

[Baph]

If in doubt, don't do it. One mantra I repeat to myself whilst riding is "Never go where angels fear to tread."

If you found yourself second guessing you're riding, IMHO, it was a bad bit of riding that put you there. Only you know the situation, and only you know how to "correct" what you did to make yourself feel more comfortable.

Also, in that particular situation, I normally get to the middle of the lane before the roundabout, even if that means I'm a few cars behind the lead. Having said that, this morning, I could of easily been confused for a courier. Any available space was mine, and at times, I was inches away from cars. Yes it was risky, but my machine control & road conditions were up to scratch for the play in around 20mph. Or so I felt at the time. Maybe I was wrong, but at the end of the day, I didn't die, so I consider myself lucky enough to do the risk assesment another time.

[grecian9]

thanks pyschocannon...interesting what you say. The roundabout in question is too tight to ride between cars so I may have to pull in behind the front car. 8)

[tricky]

I've been riding a couple of years now, I always work on:

Advantage gained vs risk of bike damage/death/injury

THis normally rules out filtering on roundabouts (except massive multi lane ones, and even then muchos observation and caution)

Keep the speed down.

Have a plan, dont just go piling up the middle of two lines of cars. Be thinking
What will I do if the lights change ?
What does the road do up ahead ?
What is the traffic likely to do ?
Where is my escape ?

Find all the posts on this forum that contain something similar to "I was filtering when such and such pulled out and I crashed" and use that in your attitude to filtering

Stay safe.

[Dangle_kt]

I gotta say I do tend to out accelerate cars off roundabouts, as you find that you can get into gaps they can't ans so in practise I tend to pull off and the cars stay where they are. However I do not do a small roundabout often enough to be confident to do that on a tight roundabout.

I do tend to be more relaxed when it's greasy as being 1 car in front is not worth coming off for.

I would never pull out between cars and stay between them, or stay in there blind spot of a single car that is on the inside whilst going round the roundabout. Simpley because people do dum things on roundabouts, especially in heavy traffic where they might have put themselves in a faster moving (inside) lane and then turn off across your path.

Byt he very fact you wrote this topic, it suggest you don't feel confortable with what you did. In my experience if I think I rode like an ass, I have rode like an ass. The real skill is learning from it. And thats something I don't manage every time. :roll:

[northwind]

If I read this right... Basically you're putting yourself in a position where you've got to be first off the line, and then not being first off the line? I do much the same maneuvre most days on the way home but I'd not consider it if I thought there was any risk of not being able to get in front cleanly. I've stopped befor the front when there's been something rapid looking, or a creeping driver, things like that. Dones't really sound like overconfidence, to me, just maybe not quite the right thing to do under that particular circumstance.

If I'm in any doubt, I'll put the bike in front of the cars, as long as that doesn't put me into the traffic on the roundabout... It's rude, but it stops them creeping out on you or trying to race.

[Red ones]

Keep your eyes up - all the time.

If you watch the roundabout and the traffic from a distance you might be able to time your approach so that you do not have to make this choice.

Eyes up!

[glade]

I have this dilemma every day joinging and leaving a dual carriageway. wide roundabouts so plenty of space.

most times i can either

a) nip into a gap too small for a waiting car using the bikes acceleration
or
b) move at the same time as the cars either side but get in front due to the bike's acceleration.

whatever you do ALWAYS make sure you can see the roundabout is clear before pulling on. if you have a van in the right lane blocking the view i will always leave it - even if he's decided to go.

Once while I was waiting for a clear view when the car in the outside lane pulled out onto the roundabout and cut someone up. They were beeping and braking and swerving, then accelerating to get out of the way. i'f i'd have pulled out jsut because he did, and had been in the middle of it all I would have been knocked off, i'm sure!

Like someone else said, weigh up the risk of a manouver against the gain. Better to arrive 2 mins late than not to arrive at all eh?

[PsychoCannon]

Just had something of a epiphany. (sp?)
I think why pulling up far enough and the cars letting you go first works is because the guy on the inside can't see what's coming round the round about with you in his face (he's also not going to miss you there ^_^)

[FG1]

If you really have to be first away at a junction the trick is to position yourself correctly.
If I filter to the front and want to make sure that I dont have a "race" on my hands I position the bike slightly in front of the suspect car.
I do not do this with a cocky attitude, I just do it as if to say, don't worry, I wont be holding you up. If you know what I mean.
That way, the car is not going to speed away as you are blocking his path and you are left with a clear route ahead to get on your way.

[Baph]

If you really have to be first away at a junction the trick is to position yourself correctly.
If I filter to the front and want to make sure that I dont have a "race" on my hands I position the bike slightly in front of the suspect car.
I do not do this with a cocky attitude, I just do it as if to say, don't worry, I wont be holding you up. If you know what I mean.
That way, the car is not going to speed away as you are blocking his path and you are left with a clear route ahead to get on your way.

I do this too actually. There's one section of a particular route of the commute that I don't always do (several choices over which way I go), has a cross roads with traffic lights. I used to just sit there in the traffic & wait as the road is pretty narrow.

Now, if the road is clear, I'll happily move right to the front of the queue, and usually, as the lights change, I haven't even stopped, just slowly rolling, so light acceleration & I'm gone before the car lets it's handbrake off.

[grecian9]

Ok - just to clarify, I did beat the car off the line but not by enough because I was scared of pushing wide into the car on my left, and thus as I got half way across the roundabout he was in danger of clipping my back wheel. The cars on the left tend to stay quite tight as to further complicate things they have a filter lane with no kerb divider coming in from their left which makes things pretty narrow.

I think it would be a lot easier for me to pile up the left only lane before the roundabout (it's a 3 lane road and the left only lane is always empty) and then cut in front of the left hand lane of the two straight ahead lanes, however, I remember a few people advising against this in the past.

[grecian9]

oh and I couldn't position myself in front of the car as there wasn't space. Basically a second after I arrived at the front of the queue it was our turn to go. What you have to remember is that this is Bradford and nobody indicates. I think I could have nipped out straight away but I stopped and put a foot down as it wasn't clear what was happening. As it became clear there was space to go I had already lost my advantage on the cars because of stopping.

I guess the secret is to roll up to junctions slower so that you can time a spurt of acceleration, but as I just said, this is Bradford - i.e. probably the most dangerous city roads in the country (and yes I have lived in London. London is childsplay compared to Bradford).

[Baph]

this is Bradford - i.e. probably the most dangerous city roads in the country (and yes I have lived in London. London is childsplay compared to Bradford).

I'd have to agree with that actually, grew up just outside Leeds. Leeds' one-way system & bradford can be a complete nightmare. The main problem you've got is the language barriers (without putting the forum in a dubious position, but expressing my opinion).

[DanAbnormal]

Sounds to me like Mr Peugeot 107 was being a bit of a ****. But also you may have wanted to judge it a little better. You live and learn matey, next time go faster! :D

[kwak zzr]

mr peugeot was prob pi$$ed off sitting in traffic, ive had fag ends and allsorts flicked at me in busy traffic, you just have to laugh and give them the finger :lol:

[Stu]

My first impression based on my understanding of your firdt post was.
If I had filtered past a few cars to get to the front, therby saved a lot of time compared with being in a car, then if the situation is such that it is difficult to get in front of the lead car, then it's probably not worth it, given that you've made good progress against the others.

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

Best wait behind the lead vehicles and pull into the space they leave (first car usually pulls a big gap on the 2nd one) to avoid upsetting people - especially if they're in something nippy.

Observation of what you're up against is handy - if it's something slow, or you can use it as a shield when it pulls out, then fine, if it might be competing against you, give it up. Every situation is different.

Mind you, even with sporty cars, if you can spot the gap coming up, keep rolling (and the sporty cars are stopped on the line) you can usually do them - just needs more observation and practice!

[arenalife]

I've got a 107, ****ing nippy indeed. I might try filtering in it soon!

When filtering at roudybouts, I slow down as I reach the line and try to anticipate whether I'm going to fire out between them before they even know what's happening or line up with an opening space to rejoin the main flow, I've never had a beep or been shut out before. I always wave thanks when I've been let back in, I think they know I'm not going to be there long.....