View Full Version : acpo guide to dealing with motorcycles
Captain Nemo
09-10-06, 11:03 AM
interesting, the acpo's guide to dealing with motorcyclists, note the sections regarding visors and plates,
sorry if this has been posted before.
http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/motorcycle_enforcement_strategy_website_22x06x06.d oc
The rule is... don't be 35...
wyrdness
09-10-06, 11:18 AM
Thanks for that - most interesting. Thuogh I've never been stopped for having a dark visor or loud cans.
timwilky
09-10-06, 11:53 AM
Nice to see a pragmatic approach to plates as in to be legible at 20.5m rather that a technical size/font. But wtf is the problem with loud cans if it can add to any other road user thinking there is a motorcycle somewhere round here and forcing them to start looking, they an only be a positve tool in improving motorcycle safety.
But as I am definately male and over the age of 35, I am screwed.
SpankyHam
09-10-06, 12:11 PM
very good.
I printed that out & it'll go under my seat.
Captain Nemo
09-10-06, 12:13 PM
TIm,
i love loud cans, i removed both baffles in mine for that very reason,
however, i wouldnt like it if i drove past my house on a regular basis with a bunch of like minded mates, i was stopped by two numpties in a area car, who didnt know the rules properly so they didnt do anything.
luckily my village isnt on the way to anywhere in particular so we dont have problems, but you have to admit loud cans are antisocial, this of course i balance in the knowledge that if s cars going to get me, at least hell know im there..........
timwilky
09-10-06, 01:00 PM
Nemo
mis use of a loud can is anti social and I would not advocate ragging through villages trying to wake the dead. My wife however, gets 2 minutes advanced notice to open the gate, get the kettle on and warm the bog seat.
I have sat at level crossings with Mr Plod alongside on his bicycle giving me looks as if to say "My ears are bleeding", but never been pulled.
My MOT inspector views a loud can as an essential safety feature.
All in all, just don't extract the urine and I think most of us are safe. I think plod would usually issue a rectification for a can when they already have had good reason to pull you.
Dicky Ticker
09-10-06, 01:40 PM
With regard to loud cans there is a difference beween staying in 2nd or 3rd and burbling through a village and the prats who go through in 1st making as much noise as possible.---------------The later should be reserved for Dartford Tunnel
and then it even hurts my ears
gettin2dizzy
09-10-06, 06:23 PM
"This Strategy document is published by the Motorcycle Casualty Reduction Working Group "
Casualty reduction group? maybe they should be more concerned with reducing casualties than loud exhausts. Ah well....
All sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
What about cars and loud exhausts :?: There are chavs round my way who drive past with exhausts louder than most bikes, there's also a guy with an american muscle car (dodge charger or similar) that makes a sound like the world's about to end :evil:
instigator
09-10-06, 08:28 PM
But wtf is the problem with loud cans if it can add to any other road user thinking there is a motorcycle somewhere round here and forcing them to start looking, they an only be a positve tool in improving motorcycle safety.
My thoughts are kind of along the same lines but towards us bikers...
Wtf is the problem with sticking with a set size of number plate?
I absolutely deteste these people who complain about getting caught and receiving a fine for plate/exhausts. You know the rules!
I do find amongst my family and friends that they find loud cars a bigger problem than loud bikes. Cars do really boot out the bass line, very low, deafening rumble. Very, very irritating. You can't even drive quietly with exhuasts like that on.
I cant see how sports/road bikes are targeted when there are customs/easy riders which are far far louder.
northwind
09-10-06, 09:36 PM
I absolutely deteste these people who complain about getting caught and receiving a fine for plate/exhausts. You know the rules!
Yep, my plate's fairly small, if I do every get bother for it that's just part of the price of a small plate.
Talking about cars- talk to 4-wheeled petrolheads and I guarantee you'll hear them complain about how they get persecuted while bikers ride around making all the noise they want. The grass is always greener on the other side. They don't get mentioned in this report, though, perhaps because it's about bikes ;)
Jelster
09-10-06, 11:07 PM
Couple of things stand out ofr me...
They discuss the fall in KSI accidents, manage to make a reference to the peaks the previous year, but fail to acknowledge that PWTs (that includes scooters) have become more popular over the last few years too (especially since the C charge in London). More statistics twisted to give a particular view....
Age: The reason that thare are more accidents with over 35's is because they're the people that can generally afford to run a fairly new bike and insure it, especially litre sports bikes... If you have a look at the amount of people in the UK who have a bike licence, I bet the average age is way over 35..... More crap statistics.
It's good to see they are taking a reasonable view on plates and visors. And loud cans save lives, fact. But I agree with Nemo, if some **** was abusing his race can outside my house he'd have something thrown at him....
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northwind
09-10-06, 11:54 PM
That's what statistics are for ;)
Average age of licence holders may be over 35, but if you map that against miles I'm pretty sure you'll find a different result. Same if you map it against people who currently own bikes.
According to RiDE average age of UK biker is 41, if you also ride a CBR600. You are Mr Average :lol:
Seems very fair and reasonable. In summary, don't be a complete pr@t and you should be OK.
I suppose you'll always get one "jobsworth", but if these basically common sense guidelines are applied in practice it should be fine for everyone.
I still think there needs to be a much more aggressive education programme regarding road safety, the standards of driving definitely seem to be deteriorating IMO.
Use of handheld mobile phones and not wearing seat belts seems to be of epidemic proportions, both of which should be comparable to speeding I reckon, there is simply no excuse for either. Wear your belt, it doesn't cost anything and just might save your life, and turn the damn phone off FFS :evil:
I absolutely deteste these people who complain about getting caught and receiving a fine for plate/exhausts. You know the rules!
That is a bit strong.
I agree with you - eg do the crime and all that, but I think the point is that why are the Police worrying about victimless crimes like that when there is so much they ignore (bad driving and mobile phones come to mind)
I think the ACPO recommendations are about right, I would love to see the ACPO report on mobile phone use......
I still think there needs to be a much more aggressive education programme regarding road safety, the standards of driving definitely seem to be deteriorating IMO.
Use of handheld mobile phones and not wearing seat belts seems to be of epidemic proportions, both of which should be comparable to speeding I reckon, there is simply no excuse for either. Wear your belt, it doesn't cost anything and just might save your life, and turn the damn phone off FFS :evil:
Agree with all that - it is a massive problem that is getting worse and the Police seem to be doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it.
I wonder if the offical accident stats even include a section "accidents caused by or partially caused by someone invloved being on a mobile phone (handsfree or not)"
Figures from Sweden (I think) showed that just being on the phone (handsfree) was similar to being drunk in terms of attention and reaction times......
When will the dicks in power wake up and stop the carnage....
northwind
10-10-06, 11:17 AM
I agree with you - eg do the crime and all that, but I think the point is that why are the Police worrying about victimless crimes like that when there is so much they ignore (bad driving and mobile phones come to mind)
The counter to that is that if you knock someone down and nobody gets your plate because it's too small to read, that's not a victimless crime.
The counter to that is that if you knock someone down and nobody gets your plate because it's too small to read, that's not a victimless crime.
Of course, but we are talking about people who have a small plate and not those who have commited a crime and are trying to get away with it - there is a difference.
Having a small plate does not make you a criminal, which is why the ACPO are being lenient on it.
Also if the Police were really worried about "failing to stoppers" then they would do more about false plates......
Jelster
10-10-06, 12:50 PM
Use of handheld mobile phones and not wearing seat belts seems to be of epidemic proportions, both of which should be comparable to speeding I reckon, there is simply no excuse for either. Wear your belt, it doesn't cost anything and just might save your life, and turn the damn phone off FFS :evil:
2 Things:
Why pay £10k for a car and not pay £150 for the supply & fit of a hands free kit ?
Talking via hands free is no worse (in fact probably safer) than talking to a passenger, I mean, you often turn to look at the passenger......
I have hands free bluetooth in my car with "auto answer set on the phone. The only time I make a call out from the car is while stationary (that does include at a standstill on the M25)...
.
Why pay £10k for a car and not pay £150 for the supply & fit of a hands free kit ?
Because they are just lazy, like most car drivers.
Talking via hands free is no worse (in fact probably safer) than talking to a passenger, I mean, you often turn to look at the passenger
I disagree, at least a passenger can be (or should be) aware of what else is going on - eg if the driving is nasty then hopefully the passenger would tell the driver to concentrate on driving - the bottom line is drving is a difficult and dangerous task and should not be carried out at the same time as any other task because the implications of getting it wrong are so bad.....
northwind
10-10-06, 06:01 PM
Having a small plate does not make you a criminal, which is why the ACPO are being lenient on it.
I think the point is that why are the Police worrying about victimless crimes like that when there is so much they ignore
So are they being lenient, or are they worrying about it?
Jelster
10-10-06, 06:41 PM
Why pay £10k for a car and not pay £150 for the supply & fit of a hands free kit ?
Because they are just lazy, like most car drivers.
Talking via hands free is no worse (in fact probably safer) than talking to a passenger, I mean, you often turn to look at the passenger
I disagree, at least a passenger can be (or should be) aware of what else is going on - eg if the driving is nasty then hopefully the passenger would tell the driver to concentrate on driving - the bottom line is drving is a difficult and dangerous task and should not be carried out at the same time as any other task because the implications of getting it wrong are so bad.....
OK, I won't get in a car with you because you're obviously not a confident driver... If I need to concentrate I just tell whoever I'm speaking to to "Hang on a sec while I ....." In this time of "presence awareness", most people will want to communicate with somebody during a trip from A to B.
Besides, on a 3 hour trip from London to Manchester I could take calls from at least half a dozen customers while I'm driving. I can drive safely AND do my job at the same time.
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Flamin_Squirrel
10-10-06, 09:47 PM
Why pay £10k for a car and not pay £150 for the supply & fit of a hands free kit ?
Because they are just lazy, like most car drivers.
Talking via hands free is no worse (in fact probably safer) than talking to a passenger, I mean, you often turn to look at the passenger
I disagree, at least a passenger can be (or should be) aware of what else is going on - eg if the driving is nasty then hopefully the passenger would tell the driver to concentrate on driving - the bottom line is drving is a difficult and dangerous task and should not be carried out at the same time as any other task because the implications of getting it wrong are so bad.....
OK, I won't get in a car with you because you're obviously not a confident driver... If I need to concentrate I just tell whoever I'm speaking to to "Hang on a sec while I ....." In this time of "presence awareness", most people will want to communicate with somebody during a trip from A to B.
Besides, on a 3 hour trip from London to Manchester I could take calls from at least half a dozen customers while I'm driving. I can drive safely AND do my job at the same time.
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Nah andy is right.
If you're talking to someone on the phone, then the it's likely the call has a specific purpose and (especially when talking to a client) you do have to pay attention to what's being said.
Often when you're talking to a passenger however, you're talking if for no other reason than to pass the time, so pausing or ignoring the conversation when necessary isn't a problem.
Jelster
10-10-06, 10:34 PM
Nah andy is right.
If you're talking to someone on the phone, then the it's likely the call has a specific purpose and (especially when talking to a client) you do have to pay attention to what's being said.
Often when you're talking to a passenger however, you're talking if for no other reason than to pass the time, so pausing or ignoring the conversation when necessary isn't a problem.
So what's wrong with asking the client to wait for a moment as you need to think about what you're doing ?? Most (in fact all) of the clients I have spoken to while driving haven't had a problem with this.
I always ask them to confirm our discussion on an email too, as I don't have the ability to write anything down. That way if I agree to do something it also acts as a reminder to do it..
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I don't have a problem telling people to 'hang on a sec' if somethign interesting is happenning on the road.
As for the 150quid handsfree - I don't think it's as simple as that.
You pay 150 for the handsfree kit, at the point of paying for the phone. next year you geta new phone. Hold on, that means a new handsfree kit. Or you limit yourself to the type of phone you can buy - if phones are still made for the kit you have.
Then you sell the car with this great ugly lump of plastic in it - that's gotta affect the resale value surely? You can't ever take it out again as then you have great bug ugly holes in the dash.
My current car came with a handsfree kit in it. It's ugly. There was only one phone that would fit it, and that was only after I paid an extra 120 euros for a new holder (I fitted it myself). So now I'm limited to what phone I can use when I replace mine next year. My wife (who got her phone before we knew the car came with a handsfree kit) has a phone that isn't compatable with the kit - so she still uses the personal handsfree version. It's a nightmare.
If it wasn't for teh fact the car came with one fitted I wouldn't have one. There is not excuse for not using a bluetooth / personal handsfree though.
Stu
Jelster
11-10-06, 06:59 AM
I don't have a problem telling people to 'hang on a sec' if somethign interesting is happenning on the road.
As for the 150quid handsfree - I don't think it's as simple as that.
You pay 150 for the handsfree kit, at the point of paying for the phone. next year you geta new phone. Hold on, that means a new handsfree kit. Or you limit yourself to the type of phone you can buy - if phones are still made for the kit you have.
Then you sell the car with this great ugly lump of plastic in it - that's gotta affect the resale value surely? You can't ever take it out again as then you have great bug ugly holes in the dash.
My current car came with a handsfree kit in it. It's ugly. There was only one phone that would fit it, and that was only after I paid an extra 120 euros for a new holder (I fitted it myself). So now I'm limited to what phone I can use when I replace mine next year. My wife (who got her phone before we knew the car came with a handsfree kit) has a phone that isn't compatable with the kit - so she still uses the personal handsfree version. It's a nightmare.
If it wasn't for teh fact the car came with one fitted I wouldn't have one. There is not excuse for not using a bluetooth / personal handsfree though.
Stu
Solution.... It's called BLUE TOOTH and it works with any modern handset.... I have a small controller on the dash (about 5cm x 1.5cm) and the phone is velcro'ed to the dash, the velcro covering an unused switch blanking plate. All very neat & tidy.
When I sell the car, the H/F kit comes out (unless I take a bluetooth option on my next one).
As for the 150quid handsfree - I don't think it's as simple as that.
You pay 150 for the handsfree kit, at the point of paying for the phone. next year you geta new phone. Hold on, that means a new handsfree kit. Or you limit yourself to the type of phone you can buy - if phones are still made for the kit you have.
Then you sell the car with this great ugly lump of plastic in it - that's gotta affect the resale value surely? You can't ever take it out again as then you have great bug ugly holes in the dash.
So you are saying that all the above is a good excuse to break the law and put the lives of innocent people at risk?
Like I said, some car drivers are lazy and selfish.....
According to RiDE average age of UK biker is 41, if you also ride a CBR600RR. You are Scoobs :lol: *Nods*
Nah andy is right.
If you're talking to someone on the phone, then the it's likely the call has a specific purpose and (especially when talking to a client) you do have to pay attention to what's being said.
Often when you're talking to a passenger however, you're talking if for no other reason than to pass the time, so pausing or ignoring the conversation when necessary isn't a problem.
So what's wrong with asking the client to wait for a moment as you need to think about what you're doing ?? Most (in fact all) of the clients I have spoken to while driving haven't had a problem with this.
I always confirm our discussion on an email too, as I don't have the ability to write anything down. That way if I agree to do something it also acts as a reminder to do it..
.You type whilst driving...hell, your another level ;) :lol:
Jelster
11-10-06, 08:30 AM
I always confirm our discussion on an email too, as I don't have the ability to write anything down. That way if I agree to do something it also acts as a reminder to do it..
.You type whilst driving...hell, your another level ;) :lol:
Well at least I don't text while driving... Now that is plain stupid...
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According to RiDE average age of UK biker is 41, if you also ride a CBR600RR. You are Scoobs :lol: *Nods*
You've made him younger too...
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