Billet this and billet that

[timwilky]

What is the current fad for components using material labled "billet"


When I was a young apprentice billet was material straight out of the iron works, and was the huge lump of steel produced from the blast furnace, that would be supplied to the rolling mills.


so what are people trying to do by describing material as billet. particualy alloys. Is it some attempt to confuse people into thinking a special material is in use.

I have seen some extreamly good investment casting examples where the end user would assume the final shape was from a machining process. No it came like that, the only post casting process is polishing. I suppose some would call this "Billet material".

If anyone can advise, what manufactured from "billet" is supposed to mean and its advantages. The only area I can see would be that there would be no distortion of grain pattern resulting from forging or rolling. and thus would have no internal stress.

[Ed]

Aw Tim you crack me up. Does anyone really care :lol: Well obviously you do....

[Scoobs]

Billet implies machined from solid. It does look bling but often will not be as strong or tough as a forged item. Forging aligns grain structure, whereas when you machine from solid you cut through the grain. This can cause stress risers and failure. I have used a lot of billet components when I used to race mountain bikes. Broke most of it. It was good looking and light but didn't do the distance. Forged stuff was always better. You can make strong billet stuff, but you have to use superior materials.

[timwilky]

Billet implies machined from solid. It does look bling but often will not be as strong or tough as a forged item. Forging aligns grain structure, whereas when you machine from solid you cut through the grain. This can cause stress risers and failure. I have used a lot of billet components when I used to race mountain bikes. Broke most of it. It was good looking and light but didn't do the distance. Forged stuff was always better. You can make strong billet stuff, but you have to use superior materials.

So machined for solid. but where has the solid come from?. most industrial metals start as billet and are then rolled or extruded to the raw material shape. At that point I would never have described the material as billet.

What initiated my question was a post about dog bones machined from billet alloy. It could only be machined from some bar stock and as such has already gone through the rolling mills and full of all sorts of grain deformation and internal stress. As you say the machining process then leaves behind stress raisers etc. So inherently weaker. Yet there seems to be an advertising thing to imply that "billet" is a superior material or is it simply that it costs little when CNC machining a component to additionally mill in a silly logo etc and add yet more stress raisers for the bling factor.

[Scoobs]

So machined for solid. but where has the solid come from?. most industrial metals start as billet and are then rolled or extruded to the raw material shape. At that point I would never have described the material as billet.

Yep! The billet will be rolled / extruded / etc to form the "billet" shape. The grain structure will be lengthways along the billet. A forged item will have the grain flow following the profile or shape of the component.

[keithd]

big up respect to the most snoozeworthy thread in the history of threads

love you all

keith "forged from love" d

[tricky]

big up respect to the most snoozeworthy thread in the history of threads

love you all

keith "forged from love" d

I thought this was rather interesting (seriously) :D

[keithd]

big up respect to the most snoozeworthy thread in the history of threads

love you all

keith "forged from love" d

I thought this was rather interesting (seriously) :D

bloomin 'eck !!

i did too as it happens! but don't let on. i like to antagonise

[Biker Biggles]

And there was me thinking this was a thread about where soldiers were staying. :lol:

[the white rabbit]

big up respect to the most snoozeworthy thread in the history of threads

love you all

keith "forged from love" d

I thought this was rather interesting (seriously) :D

bloomin 'eck !!



Me too :lol:

Keith, this one I inadvertantly put to death a few days ok should tickle your fancy

http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=46166

[keithd]

big up respect to the most snoozeworthy thread in the history of threads

love you all

keith "forged from love" d

I thought this was rather interesting (seriously) :D

bloomin 'eck !!



Me too :lol:

Keith, this one I inadvertantly put to death a few days ok should tickle your fancy

http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=46166

my christ!! :shock:

thats an absolute beauty :D

*note to self, next time i can't sleep.....*

[tricky]

I must be selective in my geekery, as that other thread bored the tits off me too :wink:

[Terence]

I guess the marketing peeps prey on the ignorance of the masses (including me). Words like "machined" and "billet" sound impressive, and the product is usually shiny, so people go "ooh!"

I for one won't be buying any load bearing "billet" components... does a tax disc holder count?

Thanks for the thread guys :-)

[shao]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/billet says:


Billet is a term used in manufacturing to refer to a cast product. A cast product is defined as either as ingot or a billet, depending on whether the cross-sectional diameter is greater than, or less than approximately 200 mm, respectively. A billet is typically cast to a geometry compatible with secondary processing, e.g. forging. An ingot is typically cast to a convenient geometry for further primary processing, e.g. heat treatment (Schey, 1999). Ingots and billets are collectively known as barstock.

So yes, most definitely both mis-used and meaninless in the context of "Billet alluminium brake reservoir cap" or "Billet dog-bone".

[Carsick]

Generally I see things described as machined from billet aluminium, which would still mean something (not much, admittedly)

[shao]

Generally I see things described as machined from billet aluminium, which would still mean something (not much, admittedly)

I was using this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Suzuki-GSXR-600-750-1000-BILLET-ALUMINIUM-FLUID-CAPS_W0QQitemZ230039592274QQihZ013QQcategoryZ10534 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemas) as a reference, which says:3-piece billet aluminum set includes front brake reservoir cap, rear brake reservoir cap and oil filler cap, all black anodized with high impact graphic.
I guess as you say "Machined from Aluminium Billet" would make more sense (as im "More tea, Alice?" "How can i have more when i havent had any?"...)

[Quiff Wichard]

I thought a billet was what you slept in in the forces!!!

[northwind]

I bought a billet Brembo m/c a while back. Before that I had a forged one. It was just described as "forged", which tells you no more than billet- should it say "cold forged from XXX alloy"? The SV has a cast frame- is it relevant that it's sand-cast not rubber cast?

[21QUEST]

I bought a billet Brembo m/c a while back. Before that I had a forged one. It was just described as "forged", which tells you no more than billet- should it say "cold forged from XXX alloy"? The SV has a cast frame- is it relevant that it's sand-cast not rubber cast?

Ping! Dang!!!! Topman :lol: :lol: :wink:


Cheers
Ben

[DavieSV]

as you say
forgings are the strongest as the grain follows the profile
machined from billet cuts trough the grain
most components that are machined from billet are to replace components that have been cast, either sand casting or die casting normally, casting is a cheap way of mass producing components to a fairly tight tolerance, but still need slight machining, drilled and tapped holes, mating faces etc,
due to the casting process, the material is very brittle, it shatters on impact, billet material is softer, and will disform on impact, eg, if you drop the bike, you will probably hole the engine casings, with billet casings you have a better chance of just denting them, allthough they can still break,
I'll go for machined from billet, better than a casting, not as expensive as a forging