View Full Version : Saddam Headlines
gettin2dizzy
05-11-06, 07:33 PM
don't know if anyones noticed this yet from the bbc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6117910.stm
Last Updated: Sunday, 5 November 2006, 19:24 GMT
Saddam's reaction
Saddam Hussein has been convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging.
The former Iraqi leader was convicted over the killing of 148 people in the mainly Shia town of Dujail following an assassination attempt on him in 1982.
kwak zzr
05-11-06, 07:36 PM
bout time really init :wink:
When does Bush's trial start :roll:
I thought the verdict was set before the trial started.
Just watched it on the BBC. Its amazing that he just looks like a dejected old man now and not the once influential figure he used to be.
When does Bush's trial start :roll:
End of next week - cant wait.
I don't believe in state execution under any circumstances.
gettin2dizzy
05-11-06, 08:06 PM
well in the case of genocide and SV theft i see no problem :)
I don't believe in state execution under any circumstances.
I'm with you........it will make a martyr out of him. Lock 'im up for the rest of his days.
amnesia
05-11-06, 08:52 PM
Execute him or let him go with no conviction...the only difference it will make is which side will be doing the shooting.
Kill him and he becomes a poster-pinnup martyr for all arab / muslim people with an axe to grind against the 'west'.
Let him go and he becomes a hero to 'insurgents' and terrorists for beating the US.
The verdict has never been in question. There is no way on earth the US or UK would allow a Saddam-freindly judge. A sunni judge at the head of that trial? Not a prayer.
It was said this morning that he could well be in a state of legal limbo while appeals and other trials are completed.
He could end up commiting suicide before he gets anywhere near the gallows.
I say let him go.
Just drop him off in Kurdistan and tell him to run :smt096
kwak zzr
05-11-06, 10:09 PM
and put it on tv like running man. :D
Supervox
05-11-06, 10:21 PM
Th U.S. screwed up - they HAD to make a big thing of capturing him with cameras present - remember the press guy walking into the press conference and saying "ladies & gentlemen, we got 'im" (how long had he been rehearsing that line I wonder ?)
Surely it would have been much better to have left the cameras behind & summarily tried & executed him on the spot in his hole in the ground & just said nothing to the world.
OK, it would have meant lying to people (but when have governments or the military ever had a problem with that ?) by saying "Hey, we just never found him" !!
Alpinestarhero
06-11-06, 10:20 AM
When does Bush's trial start :roll:
End of next week - cant wait.
I'll make the popcorn :D
Matt
Godikus
06-11-06, 10:21 AM
Poor guy
chazzyb
06-11-06, 02:31 PM
Surely it would have been much better to have left the cameras behind & summarily tried & executed him on the spot in his hole in the ground & just said nothing to the world.
I partly agree, but think they should have bypassed any trial bit and just shot him when they dug him out. They would however have needed to produce the body and say he 'died resisting capture'. That would have given "closure" the the whole sorry affair.
SoulKiss
06-11-06, 02:41 PM
Nice reply in the "your say" section on the BBC website
So, Saddam Hussein is to be hanged for signing the death warrants of 148 rebels, would-be murderers, in Dujail in 1982.
Yet George Bush signed the death warrants of 152 people as Governor of Texas. Is he to be hanged for that?
The thing that has to be remembered is that Saddam WAS the legal ruler of the country. What he did WAS legal, even if we look at all he did as evil and corrupt, it was within the laws of the country it happened in.
The whole Saddam trial, and the invasion of Iraq is, to my mind all illegal.
Yes Saddam was evil, but then is the forcing of the "Western" way of life and values on the people of Iraq or Afganistan any less so.
Yes both had terrible regimes that we and many of the people living in them thought were awful, and in some cases, unspeakable things happened and were part of daily life, but was it our place to send in the troops.
I still cant come up with an answer for myself that I am happy with.
Jelster
06-11-06, 03:08 PM
Nice reply in the "your say" section on the BBC website
So, Saddam Hussein is to be hanged for signing the death warrants of 148 rebels, would-be murderers, in Dujail in 1982.
Yet George Bush signed the death warrants of 152 people as Governor of Texas. Is he to be hanged for that?
The thing that has to be remembered is that Saddam WAS the legal ruler of the country. What he did WAS legal, even if we look at all he did as evil and corrupt, it was within the laws of the country it happened in.
The whole Saddam trial, and the invasion of Iraq is, to my mind all illegal.
Yes Saddam was evil, but then is the forcing of the "Western" way of life and values on the people of Iraq or Afganistan any less so.
Yes both had terrible regimes that we and many of the people living in them thought were awful, and in some cases, unspeakable things happened and were part of daily life, but was it our place to send in the troops.
I still cant come up with an answer for myself that I am happy with.
I think you're missing the point here.... In the same context he has been found guilty my the Iraqi people.
You managed to "forget" the whole Kurdish villages he decided to gas, and their crime ? Oh yeah, they were Kurds......
Don't kill him, keep him in jail (in a dirty smelly flea pit) for the rest of his days. Humiliate him, don't make him a martyr for the Middle East radicals to aspire to.
.
SoulKiss
06-11-06, 03:15 PM
Yes he was tried by his own laws.
Its the way he was brought to trial that is questionable.
What is not under debate is that he SHOULD have been tried, that is a given for what he did, but I have trouble accepting the procedure, as will many of those who will see him as a Martyr
What was done wrong here was the TV camera roadshow leading up to the "We Got Him" press announcement.
Would have been much better had he just turned up dead after "Resisting Arrest" but no, they had to make a press spectacle of it. Everyone knows that he was dead from the day the US/UK troops arrived.
Jelster
06-11-06, 03:24 PM
Yes he was tried by his own laws.
Its the way he was brought to trial that is questionable.
What is not under debate is that he SHOULD have been tried, that is a given for what he did, but I have trouble accepting the procedure, as will many of those who will see him as a Martyr
What was done wrong here was the TV camera roadshow leading up to the "We Got Him" press announcement.
Would have been much better had he just turned up dead after "Resisting Arrest" but no, they had to make a press spectacle of it. Everyone knows that he was dead from the day the US/UK troops arrived.
Although I see where you're going on this one, and we all know he was an evil bastid, but I can't see how killing him without ever bringing him to stand trial is right. We end up as much as a dictatorship as those we rise up against.
.
SoulKiss
06-11-06, 03:33 PM
We end up as much as a dictatorship as those we rise up against..
I thought we were there already :)
My point is that it wasn't our place to "rise up against" Saddam, or anywhere else.
Their country, their laws, their problem to solve by themselves.
Look at this countries history on human rights - try being a woman at the turn of last century, or black or irish at the middle of it, or gay at the end of it.
We managed to get through those things, and sort it out, why should we force it on other countries.
Its like when we are teenagers and we get told that we should work hard at school and that those years "are the best of our lives" - how many here wish they could go back to those days with what they know now, and how much better it would be. However, everyone of us would remember how we didn't listen, and when you try and tell a kid that now, just like you then the dont listen or understand.
Our way of life isnt that spectacular - old people die because they cant afford to heat their houses, people sleep on the streets, muggers and rapists exsist and get away with it.
Lets clean our own house first before sweeping out others
Warthog
06-11-06, 03:50 PM
Tough subject that I am not going to get into, but just to say that we had a couple of Iranians come and work at our lab for a few years. I had some very long conversations with them and they basically said that they didn't like the state of Iran, the way they were ruled, but they also don't want foreign powers wading in and shooting everything up for them. They want to change it all by themselves, even if it takes much longer. When I think about it, even if I don't like Tony Blair, I really wouldn't like the Americans to come over to Britain and bomb places inaccurately to get the odd government building and depose the leader, so i see their point.
Jelster
06-11-06, 04:24 PM
We end up as much as a dictatorship as those we rise up against..
I thought we were there already :)
My context was meant as in "we rise above it" (not against it) - Poorly written by myself. I apologise....
.
I can't see how killing him without ever bringing him to stand trial is right.
.
He has been tried, by his own people.
I sit next an Iraqi guy at school and the general feeling from most iraqis (that, obviously, excludes the persecuted minority) is that they'd prefer Sadam to still be in power - Iraq is actually more dangerous for the average man on the street than it was when he was in power.
Something like 1000 iraqis are being killed each week.
The Basket
06-11-06, 05:24 PM
I like history and especially English history.
This trial is very similar to Charles I trial and will probably end up the same result.
Saddam's first words were 'who has the power to try me, your head of state...' just like Charles.
Charles was a loser who became a martyr as the axe fell.
Same with Saddam. Stick him in some prison and let him stay there until he dies. At least he won't die at the hands of the victors.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-06, 06:36 PM
well it was our resposibility for him. Its no secret saddam was placed in power by the americans and british after being trained by the cia. But i do think killing him so publicly achieves nothing.
Alpinestarhero
06-11-06, 08:05 PM
I read in the independant tpoday that the british and germans and probably a few other countries supplied Saddam with the chemicals nessacery for him to produce his chemical warfare agents...
...so does that make us partly to blame for the atrocities saddam commited?
Matt
I read in the independant
Matt
:laughat: :oops:
I like history and especially English history.
This trial is very similar to Charles I trial and will probably end up the same result.
Saddam's first words were 'who has the power to try me, your head of state...' just like Charles.
Charles was a loser who became a martyr as the axe fell.
Same with Saddam. Stick him in some prison and let him stay there until he dies. At least he won't die at the hands of the victors.
Agreed.
Part 2 - Those who signed Charles's death warrant came to a sticky end. On Cromwell's death there was no obvious successor - his son turned out to be unsuitable - weak, vain etc. So, after a lot of political machinations, came about the Restoration of Charles's son, Charles II, in 1660. He had been in exile in France - remember that his mother, Henrietta Maria, was French. Signatories who hadn't died or been murdered in the Interregnum were rounded up in this new political era, and themselves executed as Regicides.
Well history might repeat itself, you never know.
Ed
the white rabbit
06-11-06, 09:24 PM
I read in the independant
Matt
:laughat: :oops:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Supervox
06-11-06, 10:13 PM
I like history and especially English history.
This trial is very similar to Charles I trial and will probably end up the same result.
Saddam's first words were 'who has the power to try me, your head of state...' just like Charles.
Charles was a loser who became a martyr as the axe fell.
Same with Saddam. Stick him in some prison and let him stay there until he dies. At least he won't die at the hands of the victors.
Agreed.
Part 2 - Those who signed Charles's death warrant came to a sticky end. On Cromwell's death there was no obvious successor - his son turned out to be unsuitable - weak, vain etc. So, after a lot of political machinations, came about the Restoration of Charles's son, Charles II, in 1660. He had been in exile in France - remember that his mother, Henrietta Maria, was French. Signatories who hadn't died or been murdered in the Interregnum were rounded up in this new political era, and themselves executed as Regicides.
Well history might repeat itself, you never know.
Ed
If I remember my history correctly, they also dug up some who had died so that they could display them in those hanging iron cages until they completely rotted away - just to make an example of them :shock:
Supervox - entirely true.
You'd be good to fone a friend :D
philipMac
06-11-06, 10:42 PM
I read in the independant tpoday that the british and germans and probably a few other countries supplied Saddam with the chemicals nessacery for him to produce his chemical warfare agents...
...so does that make us partly to blame for the atrocities saddam commited?
Matt
You can kind of extrapolate responsibility from there, with countries sales or gifts all arms to all "undesirable" regimes / movements.
You can continue to extrapolate all the way down to the scientists that come up with the ideas for these weapons.
You can assign blame to each link of the chain.
(Entirely reasonably and correctly IMO.)
Who? :smt102
:lol: :smt044
The Basket
07-11-06, 05:58 PM
Talkin' about regicide...Charles II was more interested in his slappers than revenge for his daddy's head chopping.
A name sake of mine who signed the execution order managed to make it to USA.
The USA may not have been the USA back then but you get my drift.
At least it was an Iraqi court with Iraqi law with an Iraqi judge.
Not like Nuremberg where the Soviets were more guilty than the Germans!
When does Bush's trial start :roll:
End of next week - cant wait.
As a citizen of the USA, I wish this were the case. I wish that Bush would be impeached for the things that he has does. Bush, IMHO, is a very selfish self serving man. He is the complete opposite of what any country needs leading them.
PhilipMac and Alpinestarhero have discussions going about where the blame falls for supporting Saddam, but really that lies on the US governments hands as well. Saddam was put in place by the US government, which is something that no one really talks about. It's all cr@p if you ask me.
philipMac
07-11-06, 07:36 PM
Blame the US for Iraq??? Hmph...
http://lawwww.cwru.edu/faculty/friedman/raw/images/Rumsfeld-Hussein.jpg
... oh yeah. They are to blame. No, I think that's sort of what aplinestars and myself were doing. Just not limiting blame to them.
So, I am not a citizen of the US, but I live here.
What I have noticed, like no other country I have been in (and I have spent time in a few places), is the powerlessness that most people feel over their government.
People, well, essentially everyone I meet are mortified and disgusted by Bush. There are protests, there are talk shows, and films, and Documentaries on HBO and things, but no one feels like they have any control over whats happening here. Everyone just shakes their head, say its a dark time, and ring their hands a bit.
There is no question that he should be impeached, that they should be out on their ear, but, amazingly enough, they win election after election.
And I think they will probably win this one coming up.
I think I know why. The Republican party is clearly a xenophobic, fear mongering, lowest common denominator sort of group. They have attached the idea that they are defending the country against non christian values, and you are a pussy if you dont vote for them.
Once you get this idea buried into peoples heads, then it becomes hard to vote against them, because what you are told is you are voting against God, and voting against keeping the US safe (from these unknown mysterious foreign people). Since the vast majority of US people dont have passports (~82%),, let alone have ever stepped outside the country, these foreign people are free to be scary.
UlsterSV
07-11-06, 07:54 PM
Bush is still in power because he does what he's told. You don't get to be El Presidente unless you're going to do what you're told. The thing about Bush is, he's so stupid he probably doesn't even know others are simply pulling his strings. What an idiot. It'll be hard for them to find a President as easy to manipulate as him, but they always seem to come through in the end. I'll miss him for the comedy, but that's about it.
And yeah, not all of the blame can be put on the Americans. But about 95% of it can.
Spiderman
07-11-06, 08:06 PM
We end up as much as a dictatorship as those we rise up against..
I thought we were there already :)
My point is that it wasn't our place to "rise up against" Saddam, or anywhere else.
Their country, their laws, their problem to solve by themselves.
Look at this countries history on human rights - try being a woman at the turn of last century, or black or irish at the middle of it, or gay at the end of it.
We managed to get through those things, and sort it out, why should we force it on other countries.
Its like when we are teenagers and we get told that we should work hard at school and that those years "are the best of our lives" - how many here wish they could go back to those days with what they know now, and how much better it would be. However, everyone of us would remember how we didn't listen, and when you try and tell a kid that now, just like you then the dont listen or understand.
Our way of life isnt that spectacular - old people die because they cant afford to heat their houses, people sleep on the streets, muggers and rapists exsist and get away with it.
Lets clean our own house first before sweeping out others
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Very well put David.
And this is also very much hitting the nail on the head...
Bush is still in power because he does what he's told. You don't get to be El Presidente unless you're going to do what you're told. The thing about Bush is, he's so stupid he probably doesn't even know others are simply pulling his strings. What an idiot. It'll be hard for them so find a President as easy to manipulate as him, but they always seem to come through in the end. I'll miss him for the comedy, but that's about it.
And yeah, not all of the blame can be put on the Americans. But about 95% of it can.
philipMac
07-11-06, 08:24 PM
Do you know what I like about Ulster...
He can say literally anything about any issue. You never have a clue where is he going to come from.
weazelz
07-11-06, 09:50 PM
http://www.b3tards.com/uploads/saddamgrabberit6.gif
I think I must be the only one on here who, if an American citizen, would vote Republican.
Blame the US for Iraq??? Hmph...
http://lawwww.cwru.edu/faculty/friedman/raw/images/Rumsfeld-Hussein.jpg
... oh yeah. They are to blame. No, I think that's sort of what aplinestars and myself were doing. Just not limiting blame to them.
So, I am not a citizen of the US, but I live here.
What I have noticed, like no other country I have been in (and I have spent time in a few places), is the powerlessness that most people feel over their government.
People, well, essentially everyone I meet are mortified and disgusted by Bush. There are protests, there are talk shows, and films, and Documentaries on HBO and things, but no one feels like they have any control over whats happening here. Everyone just shakes their head, say its a dark time, and ring their hands a bit.
There is no question that he should be impeached, that they should be out on their ear, but, amazingly enough, they win election after election.
And I think they will probably win this one coming up.
I think I know why. The Republican party is clearly a xenophobic, fear mongering, lowest common denominator sort of group. They have attached the idea that they are defending the country against non christian values, and you are a pussy if you dont vote for them.
Once you get this idea buried into peoples heads, then it becomes hard to vote against them, because what you are told is you are voting against God, and voting against keeping the US safe (from these unknown mysterious foreign people). Since the vast majority of US people dont have passports (~82%),, let alone have ever stepped outside the country, these foreign people are free to be scary.
You are absolutely right. I live in a college town full of liberal students, who for the most part don't vote. It's ridiculous. But the reason most people feel powerless to get rid of bush is because most people are under the impression that he never won the election in the first place. So if he didn't actually win, and Bush is in power, how can anyone get him out of power? It's all very stupid, and I'm just hoping for someone better. Like Hillary Clinton.
philipMac
08-11-06, 08:45 PM
Hillary Clinton will lose the election for them if they run her.
She would be a very good president, better than Bill, but she would never win.
It's that simple.
Hillary Clinton will lose the election for them if they run her.
She would be a very good president, better than Bill, but she would never win.
It's that simple.
cos women are rubbish?
yeah!
philipMac
08-11-06, 09:11 PM
cos women are rubbish?
yeah!
Finally, someone said what we were all thinking.
Spiderman
08-11-06, 10:27 PM
cos women are rubbish?
yeah!
Finally, someone said what we were all thinking.
I loikes wimmin i does :love:
cos women are rubbish?
yeah!
Finally, someone said what we were all thinking.
I loikes wimmin i does :love:
Well then you're rubbish, too.
Peter Henry
09-11-06, 07:47 AM
Saddam to hang hey? Well dont get too carried away boys and girls as the guy you have been watching in that court room is actually Saddam Husein double Nš 0135. :wink:
The real Sadam is running a kebab shop in Barnsley and lives in a 2 up 2 down terrace in the town. :wink:
Spiderman
09-11-06, 09:33 AM
cos women are rubbish?
yeah!
Finally, someone said what we were all thinking.
I loikes wimmin i does :love:
Well then you're rubbish, too.
Hey hang on, no ones forgotten your party photos and if i'm not wrong there were some lovely ladies their that you'd had your hands on once or twice, no?
So you're rubbish too if we use that logic ;)
in fact..........we need more of your party pics dude!! :twisted:
Warthog
09-11-06, 01:05 PM
I live in a college town full of liberal students, who for the most part don't vote.
You don't vote?! Then you are completely to blame for Bush. He couldn't have swung the votes his way if they weren't so close in the first place!
Goddammit I am sitting here waiting for the clever Americans to get rid of Bush democratically and you are all sitting around not voting and saying it is hopeless?? That annoys me, sorry.
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