hey org members have a look at this.

[kwak zzr]

You know all about that accident i had well i was just looking at some pictures i took on the morning of the accident and this pic in particlair shows the filter lane where WVM would have been, notice a red stop light and a green filter arrow together :? this is not right surley? anyone an expert on traffic lights?
http://upload4.postimage.org/1690084/trafficlights.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1690084/photo_hosting.html)

[kwak zzr]

sorry about the quality of the image it was taken on a mobile.

[fizzwheel]

Theres a set of traffic lights similar setup to that near where I live. Except that the filter light is left pointing instead of right. Confuses the hell out of some people they'll sit there because the light is red but the filter arrow is lit green but they sit there and sit there.

I've seen that kind of setup a few times.

[Blue_SV650S]

I didn’t read up on the accident, but looks to me as if it is green straight on and a red RH turn … nothing unusual about that setup is there?? or am I missing the point??

[Law]

Can you go back and take a closer photo of the traffic lights next to the turn right lane where they're red and green.

My guess is all the greens are for the traffic to go forward and the one with red light is the filter traffic light (it has a blue turn right icon under the green light section) You can not proceed and turn right unless that is green (should be a green right arrow light anyway)

[Jelster]

From the look of that image, the lights on the right have a filter, which was red when you took the picture. I hate these, you can be arriving at the lights and see green but not realise that it's not the light for your lane.

Bloody dangerous IMO, but fairly common practice.

.

[jim@55]

by the look of it ,the red light is for those turning right (DONT TURN)and the filter goes straight on letting traffic that are going straight ahead go first and then the filter comes on while the traffic coming the other way is stopped (obv) ,did wvm turn in front of you ??if so i bet hes seen the green (for straight ahead only)and turned right when he shouldnt have?is this right ??pic is a bit sketchy so i think that seq is right ?

[kwak zzr]

the light on the furtest right is just for the filter lane, i cant understand why its red and green? it usually goes red, amber, green + filter arrow?

[fizzwheel]

The ones near to me don't have the amber stage, They go from Red, straigh to green arrow on the filter lane.

[kwak zzr]

but not red and green at the same time?

[Law]

the light on the furtest right is just for the filter lane, i cant understand why its red and green? it usually goes red, amber, green + filter arrow?

That's only for a single traffic light if I rember from the ones I've seen. At those you can turn right if it's safe (no oncoming traffic) to proceed without the filter arrow

Your junction looks like it's controlled by two separate lights next to each other. You can not turn right even if the left one is green as the right one controls the turn right lane (as indicated by the round blue turn right sign underneath).

[fizzwheel]

I'm pretty sure it does show red and green at the same time. Its really confusing though.

[Alpinestarhero]

Perhaps the van driver then got confused, and went on the green arrow. Or just went thinking he had right of way over other traffic, and took you out?

Matt

[Paws]

Thats the same sort of set up where my other half had an accident in a car, he went to turn and got t-boned by some women in her tigra.

[kwak zzr]

see i'm in panic mode now because WVM is saying it was my fault :shock: and if the insurance opt for 50/50 i get jack shi#!

[kwak zzr]

another one, when i would say its safe to go.
http://upload4.postimage.org/1690366/trafficlight2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1690366/photo_hosting.html)

[jim@55]

yep theyre all green ,safe to go(assuming theres nothing coming i.e ran a red )

[Law]

Got a pic of some other lights that exactly the same as that junction. They're separate lights.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/issues/DSCF0515.jpg

If proper attention wasn't paid you can run the traffic lights by mistake. It depends on whether they believe he ran the red filter light or you ran yours.

HTH

[kwak zzr]

when i go to work at 5.30 in a morning you see all the same cars on the roads people going to work but ive never seen this van before so maybe these lights were new to him? :roll:

[Stingo]

Can you go back and take a closer photo of the traffic lights next to the turn right lane where they're red and green.

My guess is all the greens are for the traffic to go forward and the one with red light is the filter traffic light (it has a blue turn right icon under the green light section) You can not proceed and turn right unless that is green (should be a green right arrow light anyway)

yep - seems to be similar to one in my neck of the woods. Traffic turning right have to wait for their very own green light...

[kwak zzr]

yea but in the top picture the traffic have got a red stop light and a green arrow filter light together?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Got a pic of some other lights that exactly the same as that junction. They're separate lights.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/issues/DSCF0515.jpg

If proper attention wasn't paid you can run the traffic lights by mistake. It depends on whether they believe he ran the red filter light or you ran yours.

HTH

That one doesn't seem as bad as the one kwak posted, because there's a green filter light for straight on. It appears in kwaks example, the light is a regular round green light, which could be interpreted as it's green to go for turning right too.

But of course, even if WVM had made this asssumption, he still needed to check it was clear, and he didn't.

Kwak, other than going through a red light (which you didn't) I can't think of a single scenario where you could possibly considered to be in the wrong.

[Law]

yea but in the top picture the traffic have got a red stop light and a green arrow filter light together?

Right, as Stingo has said, it is possible for red stop light and green next to each other together. The green traffic light on the left is a forward filter green light and acts independently of the right hand stop light which is for turning right.

People will know which light is for which direction as they will be green arrows when lit and as in my pic, the right hand side lights have a turn right sign under them to indicate they are for the right filter lane.

The forward filter will be green and right filter will be red (same as on the other side on the junction), This is the situation if you went on a forward green and the van ran his red turn right traffic light.

The filter right traffic light will turn green when the oncoming traffic's traffic lights turn red. The WVM is saying this is what happened and you ran your red lights.


http://upload4.postimage.org/1690084/trafficlights.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1690084/photo_hosting.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/issues/DSCF0515.jpg

[kwak zzr]

well at the moment i'm ready for dragging him out of his house and snotting him :evil:

[Stingo]

Yep - what Law said - that's the sequence - in Plymstock that happens at the junction of Horn cross road/ Dean Cross road/ Pomphlett Road/ Church road....if anyone here knows where that is!!

[TimTucker]

Nowt strange there.

You've got two columns of lights, one on the left for the junction as a whole and the other on the right controlling the right filter lane.

Sometimes you see these with one red and then a normal green with an extra "->" filter arrow to the right. When the normal green is lit then you can turn right, as long as there is no oncoming traffic and your exit is clear. When the green "->" right-filter arrow come on, you can proceed without looking because that indicates the oncoming traffic is facing a red.

Things are a little different with this junction because there is a whole set of lights dedicated to the right filter lane. This is indicated by the "one way" blue-and-white arrow below the lights. When the main (left) set is green, you can go straight on or turn left but if the set to the right is red, you CANNOT turn right.

This means that you can only turn right at this junction when the filter light is green. It's perfectly normal to have the full green on and the red for the right lane also on, but if you turn right with the lights in that arrangement, you've run a red.

Hope that helps.

[kwak zzr]

i have a feeling my insurance aint gonna pay out :?

[kwak zzr]

i'm happer now tho ive just collected my new ride :D

[gettin2dizzy]

awesome! what is it? any chance you can get a better photo of the lights? i have a feeling the right column might be
red
amber
green >
green ^
which would explain the red and green bull****

[mattSV]

i'm happer now tho ive just collected my new ride :D

Did you get the SV1000?

[Mogs]

I don't understand these lights, that's the original ones as posted by kwak.

I've printed the images out and will pose the question to my IAM observer on Sunday, with a bit of luck they will fox him :)

[Jabba]

I've been looking at this (i.e. Kwaks original photo) for a couple of days and talked it through with the guys here in the office. The more we look the more confused we get.

The pictures are not that clear, but am I right in thinking that the right-hand set of lights, presumably for the traffic in the right hand (dedicated right-turn) lane, has four lights - red, amber, round green and right-filter green? Also, I'm also assuming that the right-turn is a simple 90deg right into a single side road. If all this is correct then I offer the following comments:

Given that the right-lane is is right-turn only I cannot see how it is possible for both the red stop-light and the green right-filter arrow to be alight at the same time.

Come to think of it, I can't see the need for both the right-filter arrow and the normal go-light on this set of lights. One or other, preferably the former, but not both.

I can also see how WVM is thinking the way he is; if the right filter arrow is alight then there should be a red stop-light for oncoming traffic, but there couldn't have been or Kwak would have stopped.

If all of the above is correct then both insurances companies should be asking so questions of the local authority with responsibility for the lights. Are there lots of accidents/near misses here? If not, why not?

Best of luck getting things sorted, Kwak :thumbsup:

[TimTucker]

Kwak, a clearer and/or closer photo of those lights would help, but I'm pretty sure that what looks like the "green filter" light hanging below the level of the three lights is, in fact, a white arrow on a blue background, indicating that the lights above it a for the right-hand turn lane only.

Is this the junction where the van turned right into your path? Or did you turn right here and get clobbered by the van?

[TimTucker]

Managed to find your post about the accident.

From what you wrote there, I presume that you've taken the photos from the direction that the van approached the junction?

Going on that basis, I guess he's seen the main green, but not the red for the right-hand lane, and turned right into your path. Or presumed that because the left-hand set of lights is green he can turn right, if his path is clear (which it obviously wasn't).

You say you saw all greens as you approached the junction, which means that there must have been a red on the right-hand set of lights.

The difficult thing will be proving that he has turned right on a red, and is in the wrong, to the insurance companies. Witnesses are what you are going to need.

[kwak zzr]

my solicitor is trying to trace a van which i remember being on the road at the same time as me, he might be able so shed some light on this :? my solicitor is also talking to Wolverhampton council about these lights to see if anything was reported that day :? as it stands Ive not no witnesses and a bike insured TPF T :(

[kwak zzr]

i'm happer now tho ive just collected my new ride :D

Did you get the SV1000?

Sure did.

[dirtydog]

Kwak, a clearer and/or closer photo of those lights would help, but I'm pretty sure that what looks like the "green filter" light hanging below the level of the three lights is, in fact, a white arrow on a blue background, indicating that the lights above it a for the right-hand turn lane only.



that's what i thought as said a clearer picture would be useful if you can do it

[kwak zzr]

will do that next time i'm passing that area.

[the_runt69]

couple of sets of lights round my way now have a straight on arrow, you get the green light when you can turn right.

H

[mattSV]

Kwak, a clearer and/or closer photo of those lights would help, but I'm pretty sure that what looks like the "green filter" light hanging below the level of the three lights is, in fact, a white arrow on a blue background, indicating that the lights above it a for the right-hand turn lane only.
Is this the junction where the van turned right into your path? Or did you turn right here and get clobbered by the van?

That was exactly what I thought aswell - a close up photo of the lights (similar to Laws?) might help.

[Coddy_SV1000Z]

if your phone has a video camera could you not record the full sequence of the lights mate?

[Baph]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter what the colour the lights are at, a green light only ever means "proceed if safe to do so".

Kwak, in your case, the van driver moved across your path (hence you going into him). Green lights do not (to my knowledge) mean "you can go regardless."

Might not work out this way IRL, but HTH ;)

[kwak zzr]

my solicitor seems to think that whatever colour the lights was a vehicle pulling into your path is in the wrong, you should always turn across oncoming traffic with caution. i dunno :smt102

[Baph]

my solicitor seems to think that whatever colour the lights was a vehicle pulling into your path is in the wrong, you should always turn across oncoming traffic with caution. i dunno :smt102

Your solicitor agrees with my thinking then. If you move, YOU have to be careful, if you're not, well, you get the book thrown in your general direction at least!

[kwak zzr]

i hope this goes in my favour i'm about 3k down at the mo :(

[Mogs]

Just a reminder to Kwak to take the photos as I find this lights business v. interesting.

Hence bumping this thread.

Hope it turns out well for you and you get the cash soon, WVM was wrong even if the filter is showing green.

[kwak zzr]

will do it on monday :thumbsup:

[DoubleD]

my solicitor seems to think that whatever colour the lights was a vehicle pulling into your path is in the wrong, you should always turn across oncoming traffic with caution. i dunno :smt102

I would have to agree with him, I was turning right on a green filter light, oncoming guy ran a red light and I hit him.... It was classed as 50/50 fault for me not checking it was clear to cross the oncoming traffic lane....even though it was red to him.

Also to answer your question about the lights, your pic is showing green for straight on and red for turning right. There is no green right arrow that is a blue circle with white arrow in it at the bottom of the lights to let you know that the set of lights above it are for the turn right only lane.

Does that make sense?

[kwak zzr]

i am thinking your right doubleD, If what you say and my solicitor says is correct then i should maybe get my money back :wink: fingers crossed.

[emcf]

sorry to hear about the accident, hope your well on the mend.

i reckon this junction should have the american style lights over each lane - unless you are familiar with complicated local lights there is always going to be confusion....just look at the uncertainty and debate amongst the forum members...road instructions need to be simple and easy to understand.

[kwak zzr]

the lights are as follows red,amber,green arrow pointing right,white arrow in a blue circle pointing right. it must have been how my mobile took the pic :wink: what looked like a red and a green was actully a red and the blue circle with the white arrow. <like some ppl pointed out. :?