View Full Version : Unfair-----your opinion
Dicky Ticker
21-11-06, 05:29 PM
With regard to all the arguments that are being tossed about at the moment concerning young men,boys even, who are being put on the sex-offenders register. How come the argument is so one sided and blatantly sexist as I haven't heard one case of the female participant being put on the sex offenders register
Example, Both 15 still at school the girl gets pregnant and he gets put on the sex offenders list.
Surely it takes two to tango and we hear enough about how girls are more mature, both
physically and mentally than males of equivalent age. So why is the female who was a
willing participant,let off and the male persecuted
Example, 18 year old male at a night club gets a nearly16 year old girl in trouble,having been told that it is a over 18 club,same result it is him who is in bother
Please do not get the wrong end of the stick,I do not advocate sex by the under 16's and as a child of the 60's that's a hypocritical statement but I do think when both parties are willing and under age it is a sin that only one gets persecuted
I appreciate that the law is to protect juveniles and when the age gap is obvious it is a very serious offence and blatant pedophiles deserve all they get,but some people are being wrongly branded sex offenders
Hm... You state a good case there. Never really thought about it, though when my older sis got pregnant by her boyfriend (way back when she was 15 and he was 16) he didn't get put on the sex offenders list because my parents (and my sister) didn't prosecute.
I'm thinking it's another example of common sense thrown out the window. Within reason it shouldn't happen at all... not when it's a couple of stupid kids at least.
On the other hand, boys are thought to be much more devious in the act of actually getting into a girl's knickers because it gives them status among other boys. Tell a girl a pack of lies about how much they love her, make her think he's 'the one' and bob's your uncle. Onto the next one. Which the law would obviously wish to discourage due to teenage pregnancies, benefits, yadda yadda yadda...
Who knows? Maybe just some outdated law that needs re-vamping?
Dicky Ticker
21-11-06, 05:52 PM
T.B.H what brought this into my mind was two kids talking in the chippie. They[both female] were both talking about the same boy who kept his socks on in bed and where he was tonight and with whom
Local kids 14-15max but they come from nice appearance wise homes and apparently both been to bed with this local boy------------------------just made me think
On the other hand, boys are thought to be much more devious in the act of actually getting into a girl's knickers because it gives them status among other boys. Tell a girl a pack of lies about how much they love her, make her think he's 'the one' and bob's your uncle. Onto the next one. Which the law would obviously wish to discourage due to teenage pregnancies, benefits, yadda yadda yadda...
Possibly the worst argument ever for putting someone on the Sex Offenders List!
The world we live in, its a marvellous place...
gettin2dizzy
21-11-06, 07:32 PM
its the same reason a woman can't be prosecuted for rape, because the actual definition of rape has to involve (i'm going to sound like a sex education teacher :? ...maybe because i used to teach it :oops: ) "penerative sex" and in order to do that a mans consent is in the fact his trousers suddenly feel awfully tight :P This means he 'obviously' consented, and for when both kids are young the elder is always prosectued, which is most cases is the boyo!
Alpinestarhero
21-11-06, 07:52 PM
its the same reason a woman can't be prosecuted for rape, because the actual definition of rape has to involve (i'm going to sound like a sex education teacher :? ...maybe because i used to teach it :oops: ) "penerative sex" and in order to do that a mans consent is in the fact his trousers suddenly feel awfully tight :P This means he 'obviously' consented, and for when both kids are young the elder is always prosectued, which is most cases is the boyo!
Ah, but the man can be drugged to stimulate blood flow to his genital regions, and cause said tent-effect...
I guess this hasnt actualy happened yet, or at least not alot, but its possible..
Matt
valleyboy
21-11-06, 07:54 PM
Overdose of viagra into said young mans drinks ? along with rohypnol.... could be an unpleasent landing if he falls the wrong way...
On the other hand, boys are thought to be much more devious in the act of actually getting into a girl's knickers because it gives them status among other boys. Tell a girl a pack of lies about how much they love her, make her think he's 'the one' and bob's your uncle. Onto the next one. Which the law would obviously wish to discourage due to teenage pregnancies, benefits, yadda yadda yadda...
Possibly the worst argument ever for putting someone on the Sex Offenders List!
I'm only throwing around thoughts. I haven't the foggiest about the true reasoning behind it and quite frankly don't really care one way or the other.
Just wouldn't surprise me though if somewhere that was some law-maker's reasoning.
gettin2dizzy
21-11-06, 08:09 PM
even viagra needs telling what to do though. would be an interesting court case! but thats how the law stands
instigator
21-11-06, 09:13 PM
I guess this hasnt actualy happened yet, or at least not alot, but its possible..
Matt
Damn right it's possible....but who on earth would go and report it??? You'd get laughed right out of the station by the male officers!
timwilky
21-11-06, 09:31 PM
I caught my youngest daughter having sex at her older sisters 16th birthday party, she was 14. As you can imagine the lad went against the wall. Worse still she had only met him about 30 minutes earlier. After an almighty argument I went to the police. The initially treated me as if it was me that had the problem. They agreed to talk to her and when she said she did not talk to sides of bacon they change their attitude towards her, closing the interview with "I think we will be seeing a lot more of you"
The lad claimed he thought she was older and no further action was taken. As you can imagine I was annoyed but not surprised. She left home at 15, Social services would not help as they took the view she had a home and parents and it was our problem. She ended up in a homeless hostel and eventually got a flat, idiot boyfriend, then another, and another and eventually became the village bike.
So now she is 8 months pregnant, no job. no bloke, no qualifications and no hope. I only wish that the authorities would have taken a 14 year old girl having sex a little more seriously.
Now for my son. When 18 he started bringing home his 16 year old girlfriend even though we knew she was still at school. My wife knew her mother so advised her that her daughter was sexually active and was greeted with denial. The wife ended up going out and buying a few packs of condoms . Next thing we find out she is only 15, then she has had a baby (Nobody including the girl knew she was pregnant). I was so scared that a complaint of underage sex would be made against him.
Teenage lads and girls have always experimented with sex. We should encourage them to at least be open, to seek advice. if we start criminalising, then they will go even more underground. Yes prosecute the dirty old men who prey on innocent kids. But be sensible in the application, kids being normal is normal
I rarely just involved in this type of arguement but i feel the need to disagree. There are plenty of women on the sex offenders register. however, statistically speaking men are more likely to be involved in sex crime
there are been stories of female teachers taking advantage of young boys etc and have been put on it, it just doesn't happen (or get found about) as often
Also if nobody puts a complaint into the police then nobody will get put on the register- it is a simple biological fact that girls are at more risk to suffer the consequences of the liasion and as such it is more likely that the female or parents of the female are going to complain.
i'm at a loss with this arguement:
"Example, 18 year old male at a night club gets a nearly16 year old girl in trouble,having been told that it is a over 18 club,same result it is him who is in bother"
....the legal age of consent is 16 so.. :? if someone is putting this fella in bother he should tell them to stick it! I would also add the fact that just because someone shouldn't be somewhere doesn't mean that they won't be there!!! You cannot use that arguement to justify your own actions.... wanna argue about it?
try using the same arguement with the biker who was in a bus lane and got knocked off by a car...the car driver says he shouldn't be there, but that does not mean he shouldn't have looked first :wink: :lol:
My sister works in a school and teenagers are now taught that the responsibility lies with both of them and that they both could be prosecuted, however most teenagers couldn't care less and are doing it anyway
...I only wish that the authorities would have taken a 14 year old girl having sex a little more seriously....
Teenage lads and girls have always experimented with sex. We should encourage them to at least be open, to seek advice. if we start criminalising, then they will go even more underground. Yes prosecute the dirty old men who prey on innocent kids. But be sensible in the application, kids being normal is normal
I had to re-read this a couple of times to get my head around what you were saying here as it seems to contradict. I feel for you though tim as i would hate to find my own kids in this same situation. Thankfully I have a quite a few sane years left.
timwilky
21-11-06, 10:38 PM
...I only wish that the authorities would have taken a 14 year old girl having sex a little more seriously....
Teenage lads and girls have always experimented with sex. We should encourage them to at least be open, to seek advice. if we start criminalising, then they will go even more underground. Yes prosecute the dirty old men who prey on innocent kids. But be sensible in the application, kids being normal is normal
I had to re-read this a couple of times to get my head around what you were saying here as it seems to contradict. I feel for you though tim as i would hate to find my own kids in this same situation. Thankfully I have a quite a few sane years left.
Whilst it does sound contradictory, it isn't. We need to be able to talk openly about sex to our kids. To let them know that is should be part of a loving relationship and not a quick get your rocks off. When I went to the police, it was because I was so angry that some 18yr old scumbag had the nerve to bed my obviously underage daughter simply for his own pleasure. My trust had been abused and I was angry.
After the above event, my daughter was straight down to the doctors for the morning after pill and then went through the gambit of different birth control methods. What I learned from the experience is
That whilst teenage girls (and boys) may be physically matured for sex, emotionally they can still be children. In my daughters case I am still convinced she has never found the love she is looking for and uses sex as a substitute. If only we could have got the help we were looking for when she was 14 I am sure she would have grown to be a totally different person.
Jelster
21-11-06, 11:22 PM
My boy is 17, so is his girlfriend. He asked if she could stay the night, what can I say ???
All I did is tell him that if she gets pregnant it's his problem. If he has to go out and work instead of going to Uni, it's his problem. If he wants to go out and needs someone to look after the kid, that's his problem..... If he's got no money, it's his problem......
He bought condoms :lol:
I think our "talk" worked.......
.
One thing that concerns me is that as a society we are far too quick to label and stigmatise people as 'sex offenders' without making any meaningful differentiation between their crimes.
For example, a 18 year old who is added to the register for having sex with a 15½ year old in the context of an ongoing relationship is grouped with someone who sexually assaults prepubescents. Or to take things even further, someone who bares their backside in a drunken moment is put in the same 'sex offender' bucket as some who rapes a 3 year old child. This makes no sense to me at all.
As a society we need to tackle genuine abusive offenders and take a more common sense approach to others. The current hysterical approach (which is largely fuelled by the media) adopted is unhealthy.
its the same reason a woman can't be prosecuted for rape, because the actual definition of rape has to involve (i'm going to sound like a sex education teacher :? ...maybe because i used to teach it :oops: ) "penerative sex" and in order to do that a mans consent is in the fact his trousers suddenly feel awfully tight :P This means he 'obviously' consented, and for when both kids are young the elder is always prosectued, which is most cases is the boyo!
I believe that a woman was prosecuted for Rape a little while back, for i think assisting her boyfreind to rape a woman on a canal towpath.
Found it http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/16/newsid_2521000/2521053.stm
chris
DarrenSV650S
21-11-06, 11:56 PM
We need to be able to talk openly about sex to our kids. To let them know that is should be part of a loving relationship and not a quick get your rocks off.
Why shouldn't it be :?: :roll:
I agree that it is part of a loving relationship but a "quick get your rocks off" can be great fun and can let off a lot of steam :lol: :lol:
gettin2dizzy
22-11-06, 12:43 AM
that article was disturbing :shock: really reall disturbing. I find it hard to believe no one in that "gang" even tried to stop it!
Damoulianos Marios
22-11-06, 01:23 AM
My boy is 17, so is his girlfriend. He asked if she could stay the night, what can I say ???
All I did is tell him that if she gets pregnant it's his problem. If he has to go out and work instead of going to Uni, it's his problem. If he wants to go out and needs someone to look after the kid, that's his problem..... If he's got no money, it's his problem......
He bought condoms :lol:
I think our "talk" worked.......
.
This way of thinking looks harsh but it's the right way to go. I don't have any children to speak of but when I was in my teens, whenever there was an issue and my responsibilities (and freedom) were pointed out then I always did the right thing. Whenever I was just "grounded" then I would always do the wrong thing once I got the chance. Teenagers try to build their pride and sense of identity and it's simply not working to act against this...
Teenage lads and girls have always experimented with sex. We should encourage them to at least be open, to seek advice. if we start criminalising, then they will go even more underground. Yes prosecute the dirty old men who prey on innocent kids. But be sensible in the application, kids being normal is normal
My daughter was 15 when she started having sex with her then 18 year old boyfriend. I cant say I was happy about the situation. However, I was pragmatic enough to realise that the deed was done and would be done again nomatter my thoughts or feelings. We agreed he could stay over at weekends and I stocked up the bathroom cabinet with condoms. By providing a safe and comfortable environment for them I won their trust, so when an accident happened (condom spit) they came to me immediately and we took the necessary steps to prevent a pregnancy.
I have no doubt that these two kids were very much in love and that their actions were the expression of that love. However, my actions in condoning the relationship, indeed in allowing it to continue under my roof were unlawful.
Common sense must prevail in such situations. I did what was right for my child and our relationship grew stronger for it.
SoulKiss
22-11-06, 09:47 AM
My boy is 17, so is his girlfriend. He asked if she could stay the night, what can I say ???
If you really dont like it, tell him "not in my house" - like what my parents did - and I respected that.
What we got up to in the back of my car was another matter (old style Fiesta - wouldn't recommend it - lol)
Not having kids, and not intending to have, means that my viewpoint on it is completely hypothetical, and while its a considered view.
Unless your kid has a HUGE amount of respect for you, they may respect your wishes that they dont do anything in your house, however there is a huge difference in their minds between that and the bushes in the park/someone elses house.
I think that it has to be expected, that with the way things are, children are going to have sex.
Bet plan of action to my mind is to educate young, tell them about condoms and other contraception as soon as they show signs of interest in the opposite sex, teach them that sex is not love and love is not sex and hope that you can get them to understand that "you would if you loved me" is a reason to say no and not one to say yes.
I cant really say that I find the idea of kids of the same age (+/- 1 year) having sex to be a bad thing - I would rather they didn't but if its safe and no one gets pregant or ill from it, then why not?
Maybe child abuse/paedophilia should be defined as "someone over the age of consent having sexual relations with someone under the age of consent".
Thorny issue really, which as stated I have no experience in, exept that I was a teenager once too.
PsychoCannon
22-11-06, 11:04 AM
its the same reason a woman can't be prosecuted for rape, because the actual definition of rape has to involve (i'm going to sound like a sex education teacher :? ...maybe because i used to teach it :oops: ) "penerative sex" and in order to do that a mans consent is in the fact his trousers suddenly feel awfully tight :P This means he 'obviously' consented, and for when both kids are young the elder is always prosectued, which is most cases is the boyo!
I believe that a woman was prosecuted for Rape a little while back, for i think assisting her boyfreind to rape a woman on a canal towpath.
Found it http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/16/newsid_2521000/2521053.stm
chris
She was in my class at school!!!
Shows how classy my school was...she's one of the better things the place turned out....
that said one of the most out of control members of my class is now a settled down working family man with kids......strange how things turn out.
PsychoCannon
22-11-06, 11:10 AM
that article was disturbing :shock: really reall disturbing. I find it hard to believe no one in that "gang" even tried to stop it!
Pfft this is probably one of the gangs that went around smashing the heads in of anyone stupid enough to get onto the top deck of the 18 bus which everyone KNEW was their turf...greif....most of them are probably in prison, dead, or on benefits robbing kids.....just like school...nah...this sort of thing was their recreation.
My fondest memory of this lot if it's who I'm thinking of is when they got themselves an air rifle and decided to hide themselves in Brent park on the 18 bus route and shoot out the windows of the bus as it stopped at the bus stop with no regard to the people inside.
needless to say several people called it in but nothing ever came of it that I heard about.
These were shining examples of humanity....not..
the_runt69
22-11-06, 11:25 AM
My daughter was 15 when she started having sex with her then 18 year old boyfriend. I cant say I was happy about the situation. However, I was pragmatic enough to realise that the deed was done and would be done again nomatter my thoughts or feelings. We agreed he could stay over at weekends and I stocked up the bathroom cabinet with condoms. By providing a safe and comfortable environment for them I won their trust, so when an accident happened (condom spit) they came to me immediately and we took the necessary steps to prevent a pregnancy
Cant agree more, the wife and I have always talked the the kids about sex and responsibility for their actions, the boy being 13 hasnt started yet, but the daughter waited until she was 16 and even asked us to get her some condoms when she became serious with a boy. however after he was round the other night and she didnt play music for a change I observed to her that she was quiet that night and she replied "wrong time of the month dad" there is too much information.
H
the law is sexist, just for once its working against us men....a woman cannot...CANNOT rape a man only indecently assault and a couple of others things...aint at work so aint got my book to check up what...
fact of the matter is, a girl below 16 cannot in the eyes of the law consent, therefore it is rape...we know this when we do it, the only time that it backfires is when the male thinks the girl is far older than she is.
Andy
Flamin_Squirrel
22-11-06, 03:00 PM
If the government want to take a zero tolerance stance on sex before the age of consent, then perhaps this is the message they should be putting across, instead of it's ok what you do just use a condom.
Dicky Ticker
22-11-06, 03:04 PM
Some very interesting insights and some good parenting tips coming to light
My boy is 17, so is his girlfriend. He asked if she could stay the night, what can I say ???
At least he asked....... better at safe and warm at home than in an alley somewhere. It would have happened anyway.
I will be dealing with my boys in exactly the same way come the time........ :thumbsup:
Hmm, interesting subject. The original point that was raised, borderline ages & close together... so long as both parties consent there should be no reason (in theory at least) that either party gets charged with anything.
The example of an 18 year old in a night club & a 15 year old is a tricky one. I've been on many a night out where, under the influence of alcohol, I have been with someone that ordinarily, I don't think I would do. Now throw into the mix that same 15 year old, and well, I don't think that her, or her parents have a right to complain. She was somewhere that she shouldn't of been, and the lad would of been assuming she was at least 16 (we all know 16 year olds go clubbing). As said before, it takes 2 to tango.
The point about a biker in a bus lane, well, if I ever get knocked off in a bus lane, yes I'd be peeved, but I wouldn't have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun at the moment) as there'd be no real grounds to complain. Yes the car shouldn't of moved without looking, but then, I shouldn't of been in the bus lane either.
As for my kids, well. My eldest is 8, and male. When he's old enough, he'll have a similar talk, basically along the lines of "You stand by your actions, and I'll stand by you." He'll be free to make his own mistakes as much as possible (I hope). Same goes for my youngest (almost 2) even though I know he's going to be terrible. Both of them will also get the talk of "I hear about you treating any girl wrong, and my son or not, you'd better not stop running."
Call me sexist, but the above paragraph doesn't apply quite so much to my little girl, 7 year old. Any guy wants to lay a hand on her, and if I don't approve, he'll be skipping the above talks. I don't care if she's 24 & has consented, that's just the way I feel. But then, she already has a true princess attitude. If something isn't going the way she wants, she'll happily let everyone know about it. Doesn't mean that anything happens about it mind, just that she's VERY vocal.
My kids already know that if anyone rubs me the wrong way I come down like a tonne of bricks, but little mistakes/accidents are brushed off casually, and yes, these are my thoughts/feelings about it at the moment, and they may change over time.
Interesting post....
WEll being only 25, i thought i'd add...
I lost my "plates" at 14, my GF was actually 15. WE decided it was right for us.
My parents we're really cool about it. In my mothers own words..
I can't stop you, so i'd rather you do it somewhere safe where you can't catch anything.
Her mother was the complete opposite, which made it much harder.
IMO, girls are JUST as bad as boys at that kind of age. Hormones are going mental, and with the amount of tits oot these days, girls in skimpy underwear, chavvy boyracer car mags like Max POwer etc, you wonder WHY these kids are so horny.
When it comes to kids, i'll approach the same method as my parents as i feel its the righ thing to do. You can't stop your kids doing things, its their lifes, the only thing you can do is help and support them and guide them so as not to make mistakes and "possibly" ruin the rest of their lifes by having a child at 16 (i know some peopel have done and are happy, but i believe in having some of MY life before creating another life to look after).
Someone has made a good point about the whole clubbing thing...
I was clubbing at 15. When i was 18, if a girl IN the club wanted to come home with me, who is at fault?
Its over 18's, therefor the clubs responsibility to check the age.
I say get a date, go home.
WE have sex, she cries rape becuase she's 15....
So whos at fault? The girls parents for letting her out? The club for letting her in? Or me for taking her home on the understanding shes 18, as shes at a club, and thats whats shes told me........
Or theres the other one where you don't go near a girl, shes gets angyr becuase of this, then cries rape anyway, therefore leading you to months worth of hassle, just ebcuase YOU said no to HER..... (i hear of it frequently...).
gettin2dizzy
22-11-06, 03:42 PM
Well if a girl crys rape your going to get done for it anyway, however if she claimed to have been older, and theres evidence to support this you won't get done for underage sex. But lets face it, alot of these girls may look older than they are, but after one sentence its obvious they're so young and naieve. I think its funny the general consensus is that girls mature quicker than boys, girls try to act and look mature, but they're not. Maturity is only something thats going to be gained from life experiences, its nothing to do with brain function.
gettin2dizzy
22-11-06, 03:52 PM
in the same week we got fined £3 (ok not much :P ) for not putting our black wheely bin out (there was barely anything in it- thats why) and we got our paper recycling bin taken away because there was a bit of cardboard in it. I had to arrange the delivery of the bins in the first place! :?
northwind
22-11-06, 05:20 PM
For example, a 18 year old who is added to the register for having sex with a 15½ year old in the context of an ongoing relationship is grouped with someone who sexually assaults prepubescents. Or to take things even further, someone who bares their backside in a drunken moment is put in the same 'sex offender' bucket as some who rapes a 3 year old child. This makes no sense to me at all.
Graham Rix :)
Graham Rix, for those not in the know, is an ex-Hearts manager, who was put on the sex offender's register for having sex with an underage girl (while in his 30s, I think, not exactly an innocent act but IIRC she was 15, out drinking, etc etc). As a result, he wasn't allowed to be alone with members of the Hearts youth team- in the eyes of the current law there's no difference between what he did, and sexually assaulting an infant, so he was treated as if he was a risk to the boys team. Just plain bizarre, that...
Not condoning what he did, mind, but there's an element of degrees here.
gettin2dizzy
22-11-06, 07:36 PM
i don't think that the second a girls 16 makes it ok for a 30 year old to sleep with them though. They're still young and going to be taken advantage of. I find these oldies going out with young girls very disturbing, can't they get friends their own age?! :?
Graham Rix, for those not in the know, is an ex-Hearts manager...
Narrow it down, we've had more managers than Julio Iglesias has had his oats. :lol:
in the same week we got fined £3 (ok not much :P ) for not putting our black wheely bin out (there was barely anything in it- thats why) and we got our paper recycling bin taken away because there was a bit of cardboard in it. I had to arrange the delivery of the bins in the first place! :?
:smt017
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.