Dog mauls cat.

[Steve H]

Just read about the tracksuit wearing **** that fed an innocent live cat to his Staffordshire
bull terrier, Gypsy (ooh what a hard man. :toss: )
His defence was that he had a 'troubled' childhood! If I met him, he would get a troubled
adulthood as well! :smt075
Probably will only get two months detention even though the RSPCA spokesperson
said it was one of the most horrific cases he had seen.
So, heres to Callum Myers what a C*NT of the highest order.
:smt076

[Amanda M]

F***king scum of the earth. I hate people like that. How can people do these things? Feed his b*llocks to his dog.

[Jdubya]

What the ****s wrong with you two....its one less cat in the world to **** in my garden :evil:


just kidding...he needs his ****ing nuts chopped off

[Jabba]

My little boy's goldfish died this morning :(


Rotten world, innit?

[the white rabbit]

Very low. I expect tho if he does get detained he may find there's some cat and animal lovers among the usual nutters and pyscho's the frequent Britain's jails and hopefully they will give him a warm welcome.

[Godikus]

Chill out, it's just a cat. I've seen folks less worked up by people getting killed :roll:

[the white rabbit]

Chill out, it's just a cat. I've seen folks less worked up by people getting killed :roll:

Idiot.

[Steve H]

Chill out, it's just a cat. I've seen folks less worked up by people getting killed :roll:

Idiot.

Seconded.

[Steve H]

My little boy's goldfish died this morning :(


Rotten world, innit?

Jabba, I'm taking that as a joke, at least I hope it is.

[gettin2dizzy]

everyday i get more tempted to start a vigilante bike gang to sort these ****ers out!
any one in?

task one:- watch mad max ;)
task two :- build one of these
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38263000/jpg/_38263074_nailstuddedbat150.jpg

[Steve H]

everyday i get more tempted to start a vigilante bike gang to sort these f*ckers out!
any one in?

task one:- watch mad max ;)
task two :- build one of these
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38263000/jpg/_38263074_nailstuddedbat150.jpg

Is that just for people wearing tracksuits and having Staffs? Can we walk round with 1980s
flight jackets and red berets and call ourselves something like the 'Guardian Angels'?
Hang on, hasn't that already been done? :shock:

[Marshall]

I must admit i do really dislike cats (i think its mutual as they don't tend to like me), but any sort of animal cruelty is wrong, and this is just bloody sick. Should feed him like to a pack of lions, just to set example of what would happen if you did it. Bet nobody would do it again then.

[hovis]

My little boy's goldfish died this morning :(


Rotten world, innit?

Jabba, I'm taking that as a joke, at least I hope it is.

whats so funny about a dead goldfish?

anyway im not keen on cats either. BUT he needs a good kicking that :toss: with the staff

[Jabba]

Jabba, I'm taking that as a joke, at least I hope it is.

What I meant was that that's two things that have happened today that have made me think.........your post and seeing how upset my 6 year-old kid was this morning when he found his pet goldfish floating at the top of it tank. One event was a natural occurrence and the other wasn't but both made me think.

I think the guy with the dog should be strung up by his 'nads.

[UlsterSV]

I'm sitting here now with my wee cat wondering how the hell you could ever feed one to a dog. ********. What happened to the Staffie? Did they put it down?

[Jabba]

Did they put it down?

Probably, as its the standard knee-jerk reaction, but I hope not. Not the dogs fault its been trained the way it has.

[hovis]

. What happened to the Staffie? Did they put it down?

i would hope not, as its not the dogs fault...put the guy down instead

[Alpinestarhero]

That's disgusting, the poor cat...

It doesn't matter if you have a troubled childhood, you still grow up learning right from wrong through observing the actions of others.

Maybe he should be fed to a pack of dogs, see how he likes it.

Poor cat...

Matt

[Steve H]

I must admit i do really dislike cats (i think its mutual as they don't tend to like me), but any sort of animal cruelty is wrong, and this is just bloody sick. Should feed him like to a pack of lions, just to set example of what would happen if you did it. Bet nobody would do it again then.

Quite. You don't have to like a particular animal for this sort of thing to be wrong.
The 'person' is at fault, not the dog.
This story just made me mad. The look on the idiots face was enough to make you sick.

[Smurf]

everyday i get more tempted to start a vigilante bike gang to sort these f*ckers out!
any one in?

task one:- watch mad max ;)
task two :- build one of these
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38263000/jpg/_38263074_nailstuddedbat150.jpg

Count me in, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore :evil:

Instead of the nail studded bats you might consider one of these (http://www.castrator.com/ezeintro.htm). Not sure if you can keep him still for that long so maybe the cauterizing ones instead :twisted:

Oh, and I vote were called Hell's Satan's after Homers band of outlaws.

[Steve H]

Jabba, I'm taking that as a joke, at least I hope it is.

What I meant was that that's two things that have happened today that have made me think.........your post and seeing how upset my 6 year-old kid was this morning when he found his pet goldfish floating at the top of it tank. One event was a natural occurrence and the other wasn't but both made me think.

I think the guy with the dog should be strung up by his 'nads.

Yep, and sorry to hear about the goldfish. It was still your sons pet and meant a lot
to him.

[hovis]

everyday i get more tempted to start a vigilante bike gang to sort these f*ckers out!
any one in?

task one:- watch mad max ;)
task two :- build one of these
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38263000/jpg/_38263074_nailstuddedbat150.jpg

Count me in, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore :evil:

Instead of the nail studded bats you might consider one of these (http://www.castrator.com/ezeintro.htm). Not sure if you can keep him still for that long so maybe the cauterizing ones instead :twisted:

Oh, and I vote were called Hell's Satan's after Homers band of outlaws.

IM IN :evil:

[gettin2dizzy]

sounds good! we'll brand them with an HS afterwards on their forehead! i think its only a matter of time till this type of rioting happens. We could all take a leaf out of frances book. Their smoking ban was brilliant!... no one took any notice so the government dropped it! we should all do the same with speeding tickets!

[Steve H]

Oh no, I have created a MONSTER! :twisted: :shock:

[Steve H]

sounds good! we'll brand them with an HS afterwards on their forehead! i think its only a matter of time till this type of rioting happens. We could all take a leaf out of frances book. Their smoking ban was brilliant!... no one took any notice so the government dropped it! we should all do the same with speeding tickets!

Wasn't the song Anarchy in the U.K, not in France? :wink:

[gettin2dizzy]

(it is a seriously tempting idea :? )




























:twisted: :twisted: :smt068 :smt030

[Spiderman]

A teenager who dropped a neighbour's cat into the jaws of his aggressive dog and watched as it was ripped to shreds has been jailed for four months.

at least he's been punished, i thought. then i read more and found this

The court heard that at the time of the attack in March Myers was out on licence from a custodial sentence given in 2004 for robbery.

He was taken back into detention two months later, although police had not pressed charges against him.

It was left to the RSPCA to pursue the case after they were notified of the horrific incident.

Why do the cops not see this behaviour and his robbery as being connected. He is a scumbad who clearly has no respect for other people or even animals.I in my book people like him deserve nothing in return from society. Lock him in a cell with just enough bread and water till he wastes away i say!!

[Stormspiel]

. What happened to the Staffie? Did they put it down?

i would hope not, as its not the dogs fault...put the guy down instead

Gypsy (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/6168186.stm) was destroyed after the attack. I saw the CCTV on the news but wasn't really watching 100%. Looked to me he just picked the cat up and dropped it on the dog. Not the daogs fault by a long stretch. My Border collie cross shares a bed with a cat daily, but show him one outside and he'll chase it for days.

Feel sorry for both animals, The P!"*K however should be beaten with a large stick by the cats owner. :twisted:

[gettin2dizzy]

yeah, i think you should lose any rights the second you commit a crime. Its only a pity theres such a thing as drug crime, i still don't understand how thats one. Governments defense is that it leads to crime like robbery....erm... that was a crime last time i checked, why not ban walking on the basis it can lead to crime.
In my world punishment for any crime would be (for men) the left one, or the right one. So two chances ;) might cut down on the benefit families of 15

[hovis]

. What happened to the Staffie? Did they put it down?

i would hope not, as its not the dogs fault...put the guy down instead

Gypsy (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/6168186.stm) was destroyed after the attack. I saw the CCTV on the news but wasn't really watching 100%. Looked to me he just picked the cat up and dropped it on the dog. Not the daogs fault by a long stretch. My Border collie cross shares a bed with a cat daily, but show him one outside and he'll chase it for days.

Feel sorry for both animals, The P!"*K however should be beaten with a large stick by the cats owner. :twisted:
maybe your dog dos'nt know daily is a cat :shock:

[hovis]

the dog was put down :cry:

http://upload4.postimage.org/1719643/_42338556_gypsy_rspca203.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1719643/photo_hosting.html)

so thats 2 animals that ****** killed

[gettin2dizzy]

tigger wasn't even his cat. I used to live at a boarding kennels, never met a nice staff. Most dogs couldn't be taken in sight of another cat/dog without them going beserk! never met a nasty colie thoughh!

[Steve H]

One of my concerns is the obvious need for idiots like him to have a viscious dog to
make them look hard. I'm afraid that all too often, Neanderthal and 'Staff' go hand in hand.
Who is paying for these dogs to be looked after? I don't know about you, but it can
be a pretty expensive pastime keeping pets. Most of these people can't look after themselves
let alone a fully grown dog! :rant:

[Alpinestarhero]

Ooooh i remember this article now! I had to stop my girlfreind from reading it because her cat is called tigger, and I didnt want her to get upset.

Can i join this club?

I shall be Yellow Dragon!!!

Matt

[BabyJ]

[i]
Why do the cops not see this behaviour and his robbery as being connected. He is a scumbad who clearly has no respect for other people or even animals.I in my book people like him deserve nothing in return from society. Lock him in a cell with just enough bread and water till he wastes away i say!!

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there Spidey. My neighbour served time for burglary and was out on licence but I know one thing for sure, he's an animal lover!! My guinea pig was snatched by his cats a while back and it died a couple of days later and he was gutted when I told him it had died. He went out and bought me another Guinea pig. So not all burglary offenders can be tarnished with the same brush!! :wink: :D

As for this guy.... That's as Barbaric as they come! Evil bas*ard! 4 months isn't long enough but at least he has a ban too. Sick :toss:! As for "Tigger" That's my cat's name too! :cry: Poor thing. What must he have gone through? :evil:

As for his dog, it's sad that it was destroyed but it's probably just as well, once it had that tatse for blood, chances are it would do it again. Sad case all round

[hovis]

My neighbour served time for burglary and was out on licence but I know one thing for sure, he's an animal lover!! My guinea pig was snatched by his cats a while back and it died a couple of days later and he was gutted when I told him it had died. He went out and NICKED me another Guinea pig. So not all burglary offenders can be tarnished with the same brush

:lol: :lol: :wink:

[UlsterSV]

It's no surprise the waster had already felt the long arm of the law then been let out. But sure the government can't lock these people up. It might infringe on their rights :roll: They don't call it soft-touch Britain for nothing! Shame about the dog. Another one dies because of an irresponsible owner.

[Razor]

I used to live at a boarding kennels, never met a nice staff. Most dogs couldn't be taken in sight of another cat/dog without them going beserk!

Staffs are lovely dogs, if raised properly. Granted they don't like other animals much but with kids they're great. They're smart, loyal and full of character. Don't blame the animals, blame the owner.

[gettin2dizzy]

always blame the owner! i've dealt with so many rottweilers (which i hate) which have been so tame due to good owners. Anyone who gets a new pet - invite everyone you know round to meet it, and take it out. This as a puppy leaves a very relaxed dog. Mines scared of kites, white vans, yellow reflective jackets, water, and men :?

[Bear]

yeah, i think you should lose any rights the second you commit a crime.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I won't be voting for you then!

Does that mean shot for speeding, then?

[gettin2dizzy]

speeding isn't a criminal offence i don't think. i mean criminals shouldn't be treated so softly, for example these muggers who get there ass whooooped then sue the victim etc.

[philipMac]

Nah, I agree with Spidey in the sense that this behavior linked.

If someone does that to a cat, they are probably pretty damaged, they are going to be in a higher risk category for committing other anti-social acts.

Not all people who are extremely cruel to pets are criminal in other respects, but the two are definitely linked.

Emm, re Godikus' post, he is right. It is only a cat. Its not a person. It is very unpleasant, but someone didnt die. All this business about people wanting to lynch yer man with is silly.

I would ask all these people that are so getting so worked up, what are you eating tonight? What is your jacket made of? You shoes? Dead animal by any chance? Ahh, but they are killed nicely. Well, I suppose. But, you are still directly responsible for a massive trail of dead animals. You didnt kill them for fun, it was because you like the taste of meat. The animal ends up dead either way though.

I am not saying that eating meat is bad, I eat meat. Or killing animals is great, but we do kill lots of them. Bullfights happen all the time, fishing is a sport, etc etc.

All I am saying is a bitta proportion lads.

[gettin2dizzy]

it was nothing to do with the fact its a cat that died. There would never be a 'cat got hit by car' thread. Its just the nature of the attack, the mentality of this kid. Saying that though - its not too far removed from fox hunting!

[philipMac]

it was nothing to do with the fact its a cat that died. There would never be a 'cat got hit by car' thread. Its just the nature of the attack, the mentality of this kid. Saying that though - its not too far removed from fox hunting!

Cat being hit by a car is an accident.

This kid killed the cat because he thought it would be fun. We kill other animals because we like to taste meat.
There is a difference, killing things just for fun is a bit off IMO, but people do it all the time. Just because its a cat shouldn't really change things.

[Smurf]

it was nothing to do with the fact its a cat that died. There would never be a 'cat got hit by car' thread. Its just the nature of the attack, the mentality of this kid. Saying that though - its not too far removed from fox hunting!

Disagree with this, while I wouldn't like any kid of mine pulling the wings off a fly It wouldn't bother me nearly so much as if he was gutting a cat with a kitchen knife. Because cats, dogs etc are part of the fabric of many of our lives and because we can see distinct personalities in them we treat them apart from fly's.

[21QUEST]

tigger wasn't even his cat. I used to live at a boarding kennels, never met a nice staff. Most dogs couldn't be taken in sight of another cat/dog without them going beserk! !

You used to leave at boarding kennels and never met a nice staff? :roll: .
When you say most dogs, I take it you mean most staffords right(if wrong then I apologise). For someone who says they used to live at a boarding kennel I'm surprised at such ignorant comments. Sorry I'm a stafford lover and such comments just get my goat :wink: . Too many people who do not have a clue about a breed make comments based on nothing IMO. Yes a cat died(feel for the owner) due tothe actions of some CNUT but that's all to it. ie dead cat and CNUT.



One of my concerns is the obvious need for idiots like him to have a vicious dog to
make them look hard. I'm afraid that all too often, Neanderthal and 'Staff' go hand in hand.
Who is paying for these dogs to be looked after? I don't know about you, but it can
be a pretty expensive pastime keeping pets. Most of these people can't look after themselves
let alone a fully grown dog! :rant:


Again another ignorant comment IMO :roll: . Why do say the dog is vicious? Because a cat died :roll: . Mate if you really want a big vicious dog then you are looking at the wrong breed. A Rottweiler, Mastiff or similar is what you need. 'Neanderthal and Staff go hand in hand'. ROTFLMAO. Really? That's the only breed of dog with irresponsible onwers right.

Maybe I live in the wrong area but I've had most problems with owners of other breeds of dogs because contrary to the ignorant views the majority of true stafford lovers know they have to be very careful as automatically any incident would be deemed the fault of their dogs.

My last stafford got on quite well with other animals. He never and I repeat never once started any thing. The thing was that I knew he would not back down if another dog tried to dominate him and so I was always very careful. Infact people always wondered why I had him on the lead most when there were others around. That my friend is the majority of true stafford lovers. As with any thing you get the idiots but people too often believe all the media and the caring organisation feeds them and the put that out as 'how it is'

I bet you two are in support of BSL. As for Gypsy, I wonder who pushed for him to be put down? My bet would be on the RSPCA but hey I could be wrong :wink: . One reason why they get nothing for me is the killing of innocent animals. :x


Good stuff........stuff ........good stuff .......

I am not saying that eating meat is bad, I eat meat. Or killing animals is great, but we do kill lots of them. Bullfights happen all the time, fishing is a sport, etc etc.

All I am saying is a bitta proportion lads.

Exactly philipmac



Cheers
Ben

[hovis]

its not the fact that the dog killed the cat..if this was all that happened it would not be a problem.
its the fact that the p***k of a bloke gave the cat to the dog & "made" the dog kill it.
so if it was not for the bloke....the cat would probably got away and not died & the dog would not
have had to be put down

[21QUEST]

its not the fact that the dog killed the cat..if this was all that happened it would not be a problem.
its the fact that the p***k of a bloke gave the cat to the dog & "made" the dog kill it.
so if it was not for the bloke....the cat would probably got away and not died & the dog would not
have had to be put down

Yep, agree to the extent that a CNUT "failed to protect a cat from injury" but still someof the reactions are over the top IMO.

..and the dog should NOT have been PTS period. There was no justification AFAIK aprt from a cat died.


Cheers
Ben

[Stingo]

Allow me to metaphorically place a cat amongst the pigeons....


"Barbaric!! I would never dream of doing such a thing to a live animal" said the master of the hunt.











*Legs it and hides in secret nuke proof bunker 8-[ *

[Ed]

Philip - what's your view on this. Is it better for an animal farmed for its meat to have had a happy life and then killed and eaten, or is it better if the animal had never existed at all?

The cat would have had a life, it wasn't born simply to be ripped to shreds at the whim of the man responsible. Who's to say it would have had a happy life, it might have been run over the next day. But we can accept road accidents, we don't accept this sort of sdsavagery, the manner of its death is truly shocking.

[21QUEST]

As for his dog, it's sad that it was destroyed but it's probably just as well, once it had that tatse for blood, chances are it would do it again. Sad case all round

Are you serious with that comment. Sorry but yet again that's just ignorant rubbish. I think it's sad when I hear people come out with stuff like that. Some dogs(not just staffords) are more prone chasing things and if caught will do damamge. The focus should be on the owners of animals.

Where do we start lurchers, greyhounds, smaller terriers etc. We might as well kill the whole lot of them because as I said most will chase or even dig to get furry animals and will cause damage.

If a cat were to catch and kill a bird, rat or similar would you be saying the same? :?


Cheers
Ben

[Ed]

[quote=BabyJ]

If a cat were to catch and kill a bird, rat or similar would you be saying the same? :?

Ben - you know that's not a valid comparison.

BabyJ can answer for herself and no doubt she will.

The issue here in my opinion is this man's abject cruelty, not the dog's inate or trained reaction.

[gettin2dizzy]

i think people are mixing up the arguments here.
Cat- sad it died
Dog- sad it died
but the turmoil is all over how this situation arose. Its the bloke people are angry at for his barbaric behaviour. Feeding any live animal for a dog to maul for his entertainment is disgusting, the fact it was someones pet makes it worse.

i lived at a boarding kennels for most of my life (my mum owned it, we lived on site, i worked there). My comments about dogs were not aimed at breeds of dog, but people who want a dog to look hard tend to get these breeds and are irresponsible bringing them up. Most of the larger dogs we had would be much better trained than the little ones because they are more threatening - so they had more training. A jack russel was almost bound to go for your ankles! but they get away with it because they are small. However staffs, mastiffs (especially) are alot of the time; terrible around other animals and around strangers. This is only the owners doing, and of course reflects badly on the dogs. However i'd rather approach a colie than a staffy!

[northwind]

"Barbaric!! I would never dream of doing such a thing to a live animal" said the master of the hunt.


You're feeling brave today, eh? I agree completely tbh.

[21QUEST]

[quote=BabyJ]

If a cat were to catch and kill a bird, rat or similar would you be saying the same? :?

Ben - you know that's not a valid comparison.

BabyJ can answer for herself and no doubt she will.

The issue here in my opinion is this man's abject cruelty, not the dog's inate or trained reaction.

Ed, I think it is a valid comparison though. No one will disagree that what the man did was indeed a cruel act.

That, being the main issue and if we agree that some animals would just chase etc then BabyJs' comment ie
........... but it's probably just as well, once it had that tatse for blood, chances are it would do it again. Sad case all round
is completely an unfair and wrong IMHO. The only difference is some idiot actually gave the cat to the dog. That the dog didn't catch the cat itself doesn't change the fact that IMO the above is wrong. How about some sick owner catches a bird and gives it to his/her cat. Should the cat be PTS? My answer to that would be 'No'. The cat hasn't done anything unnatural and the behavior of an idiotic human hasn't changed that.

To be honest I have to say when people make such comments, my experience has been that they are going by what they have read in the papers or put out by certain groups. Maybe as a Stafford lover I'm being a bit sensitive although my view with regards to dog being put down would still apply to any other breed.

Again my stafford was 100% reliable with people as they should be, fairly good with other animals. He was the best around where I lived with regards to spoken/hand commands and yet most people automatically saw him as a bad dog even when they had never met a Stafford but because of what they have read. I always went out of my way to speak and show people what a stafford is really about. Some even with that where would make horrible comments especially when my then other half would walk him. These were people whose dogs weren't even close to being under control on or off the lead :x .





gettin2dizzy, as I said it's a terrible thing that the lad did and poor pet cat and all that. No one here including me is saying it is okay so that's one thing. The comments on Staffords I had to disagree with because unfortunately I come across such misinformation all the time.

People including idiots get different breeds for various reasons. Myself, I've had more problems with owners of Doberman, Mastiffs, German Shepherd, Rotties, boxers, Labs and the like. Most off those that own these breed I have found to have what I call 'big dog syndrome' and tend not to have full grasp of what they have. The flimsy collars on there dog is always a give away. Still irresponsible IMO even if people don't think of said breeds as being usually owned by people wanting to look hard.

Staffords being terrible around other dogs is NOT a stafford problem. Yes in general they tend to be but same goes for other dogs. There was always this Westie that always wanted a chunk out of my Stafford :shock: :lol: . Even had two Westie go for him with the owner miles away with me having to pick him up to save them. I've know of two/three stafford who live happily together. Not every dog wants to play with another one. same as humans really.
We'll have to agree to disagree on staffords with regards to people. I'm truly shocked even though I don't know how many you have been in contact with that they have all been bad with people. I have only ever met one Stafford who didn't have what I'll call good enough temperament with people and I've met one or two.

Regards Mastiff being somewhat terrible around strangers? Well mastiffs they are a guarding breed so that is to be expected. No? Mastiffs are also known in general not get on with other dogs.

Basically what you are seeing and saying(some wrong) is NOT the issue in the main IMO. The issue is owners being either ignorant or irresponsible. Yes I do agree that a lot of damage can be caused when things go wrong but same applies to a lot of things.

I'll have more faith in a Stafford being left with a baby than I would with a collie. There are some stats ranking dogs most likely to bite and I think most people would be surprised where the Stafford appears :wink:


Cheers
Ben


ps: ..so I guess most people couldn't work in a Zoo as I've heard some of the animals get fed live animals :shock: :wink:

[Smurf]

[quote=BabyJ]

If a cat were to catch and kill a bird, rat or similar would you be saying the same? :?

Ben - you know that's not a valid comparison.

BabyJ can answer for herself and no doubt she will.

The issue here in my opinion is this man's abject cruelty, not the dog's inate or trained reaction.

Ed, I think it is a valid comparison though. No one will disagree that what the man did was indeed a cruel act.

That, being the main issue and if we agree that some animals would just chase etc then BabyJs' comment ie
........... but it's probably just as well, once it had that tatse for blood, chances are it would do it again. Sad case all round
is completely an unfair and wrong IMHO. The only difference is some idiot actually gave the cat to the dog. That the dog didn't catch the cat itself doesn't change the fact that IMO the above is wrong. How about some sick owner catches a bird and gives it to his/her cat. Should the cat be PTS? My answer to that would be 'No'. The cat hasn't done anything unnatural and the behavior of an idiotic human hasn't changed that.

To be honest I have to say when people make such comments, my experience has been that they are going by what they have read in the papers or put out by certain groups. Maybe as a Stafford lover I'm being a bit sensitive although my view with regards to dog being put down would still apply to any other breed.

Again my stafford was 100% reliable with people as they should be, fairly good with other animals. He was the best around where I lived with regards to spoken/hand commands and yet most people automatically saw him as a bad dog even when they had never met a Stafford but because of what they have read. I always went out of my way to speak and show people what a stafford is really about. Some even with that where would make horrible comments especially when my then other half would walk him. These were people whose dogs weren't even close to being under control on or off the lead :x .





gettin2dizzy, as I said it's a terrible thing that the lad did and poor pet cat and all that. No one here including me is saying it is okay so that's one thing. The comments on Staffords I had to disagree with because unfortunately I come across such misinformation all the time.

People including idiots get different breeds for various reasons. Myself, I've had more problems with owners of Doberman, Mastiffs, German Shepherd, Rotties, boxers, Labs and the like. Most off those that own these breed I have found to have what I call 'big dog syndrome' and tend not to have full grasp of what they have. The flimsy collars on there dog is always a give away. Still irresponsible IMO even if people don't think of said breeds as being usually owned by people wanting to look hard.

Staffords being terrible around other dogs is NOT a stafford problem. Yes in general they tend to be but same goes for other dogs. There was always this Westie that always wanted a chunk out of my Stafford :shock: :lol: . Even had two Westie go for him with the owner miles away with me having to pick him up to save them. I've know of two/three stafford who live happily together. Not every dog wants to play with another one. same as humans really.
We'll have to agree to disagree on staffords with regards to people. I'm truly shocked even though I don't know how many you have been in contact with that they have all been bad with people. I have only ever met one Stafford who didn't have what I'll call good enough temperament with people and I've met one or two.

Regards Mastiff being somewhat terrible around strangers? Well mastiffs they are a guarding breed so that is to be expected. No? Mastiffs are also known in general not get on with other dogs.

Basically what you are seeing and saying(some wrong) is NOT the issue in the main IMO. The issue is owners being either ignorant or irresponsible. Yes I do agree that a lot of damage can be caused when things go wrong but same applies to a lot of things.

I'll have more faith in a Stafford being left with a baby than I would with a collie. There are some stats ranking dogs most likely to bite and I think most people would be surprised where the Stafford appears :wink:


Cheers
Ben


ps: ..so I guess most people couldn't work in a Zoo as I've heard some of the animals get fed live animals :shock: :wink:



While I'd agree with you about any dog being potentially violent if not properly trained there is a problem with certain breeds like Staffs or Presa Canario's. These dogs were bred purely for their aggression and fighting ability and even with a competent owner they can still be a handful.

While I wouldn't like to see these dogs eradicated I do think there should be tighter controls over who can own one and greater penalties for breaking those laws. A bit like with the bike license(ducks for cover :D )

[philipMac]

Philip - what's your view on this. Is it better for an animal farmed for its meat to have had a happy life and then killed and eaten, or is it better if the animal had never existed at all?


:lol: Emmmmm. I am not sure. I haven't really thought about the whole farming / killing animals for our benefit that much. Honestly, I feel a bit guilty about the way pigs are kept. It seems quite cruel, and they are very clever animals. But, in Ireland at least, being a cow or a sheep is not that bad. So, I would generally say its better for the animal to have lived and lost than never lived at all. In the case of the pig, or say chicken, who must spend lives in a tiny cage in quite a lot of pain, I think it might be better for them to have never lived.

The cat would have had a life, it wasn't born simply to be ripped to shreds at the whim of the man responsible. Who's to say it would have had a happy life, it might have been run over the next day. But we can accept road accidents, we don't accept this sort of sdsavagery, the manner of its death is truly shocking.

Yeah, exactly, that's what I was trying to say in my other post, only better put. Accidents happen, and this wasn't an accident.

The cat died to make that guy happy. And, that's not acceptable. It would not have been acceptable if it died painlessly, or painfully. That's a critical point.

Would it be acceptable if the cat died to feed the guy? I would have to say... yes. If you say no, then you should be a vegetarian. Pigs have a miserable existence, and are more intelligent than cats.

What I am trying to say is, just because an animal is fluffy, and looks nice, shouldnt give it a special place in the world. Rats and squirrels are similar, rats are more intelligent, but get treated horribly. Cats are pretty and pigs are less pretty, and cats have far nicer lives.

I think that people get carried away with this idea that cute animals have more right to live than ugly ones.

It is disgusting to think that this guy fed a live cat to a dog. But, for me, it is just as disgusting as fighting bulls. People get much less worked up at the idea of bulls being killed cause they are big and ****ed off.

What I am also trying to say is, that most of us meat eaters are directly responsible for stomach churning animal cruelty. Just because we don't see it, or hear about it doesn't change this. We should be aware of what most of us do before we go on too much of a righteous rampage.

[Steve H]

[quote=hovi5]its not the fact that the dog killed the cat..if this was all that happened it would not be a problem.
its the fact that the p***k of a bloke gave the cat to the dog & "made" the dog kill it.
so if it was not for the bloke....the cat would probably got away and not died & the dog would not
have had to be put down

Yep, agree to the extent that a CNUT "failed to protect a cat from injury" but still someof the reactions are over the top IMO.

..and the dog should NOT have been PTS period. There was no justification AFAIK aprt from a cat died.

Some of the reactions are over the top?!
:shock: And i'm the ignorant one?! :wink:

[timwilky]

Oh come (flame me time) what the hell it is only a moggie.

What a lazy staff. Having to be fed the Moggie. My little JR would do all the work himself. It is natures way. Dogs hate cats. Cats then provoke the dog by hissing and spitting. Bye Bye moggie.

Some parts of the world eat these things. I have seen dogs and cats in the meat market in China and Korea. I worked with some Koreans who had a dog called picnic, until they ate it.

The only purpose in life a cat has is to keep down the rodent population and a dogs purpose in life is to hunt (foxes, rabbits, badgers, cats who cares). The fact we domesticate the things is because we have forgotten we are the top predator.

Bring back bear baiting, **** fighting etc. At least we would have some decent entertainment instead of all this jungle crap

[SoulKiss]

Bring back bear baiting, c*ck fighting etc. At least we would have some decent entertainment instead of all this jungle crap

Classic Mr Wilky quote there - glad to see your feeling yourself today - just dont do it too much or you will go blind. :twisted:

OK, now my Tuppenceworth.

Subject to further clarification/consideration, anyone who steps into the realm of Crime (as in breaking criminal law rather than civil) should be deemed to have decided to opt out of society until they have served their sentence.

This would mean that by commiting the act of breaking into your house, they are no longer protected by the law, so when you beat the carp out of them, they cannot sue, as they have no access to the law.

While in prison they have no rights to the law, they do have certain rights - basic food, a clean bed, the facilities to care for their hygene, but thats it. No Playstations, no studying for degrees.

Rather than try and teach them the error of their ways, just lock em up, and let the experience of being locked up be the deterrent for ever doing anything that could get them locked up again.

Teach kids in schools EXACTLY what happens in these prisons, take them to them so that they can see what they face if they step out of line.

Once out, and again part of society, law applies again, except that if they step over the line again, any sentence is automatically doubled.

Make the punishment so harsh that no crime is worth the price.

David

[Steve H]

TimWilky. Perhaps you have a point there.
What about feeding some of those so called 'celebrities' to dangerous dogs
and film it for a prime time ITV audience. :D
Remember, when it happens, it was my idea. :wink:

.........sorry, just trying to lighten up a fairly grim thread.

[Tomcat]

soulkiss :winner: :salut: obviously this does not apply to speeding !! :wink:

[SoulKiss]

Well aparently Speeding is a Criminal Offence (in Scotland anyway)

But as soon as you pay your fine you would be ok.

Obviously some Law reform would also be required - de-criminalise Speeding, but have harsher penalties if your speeding caused injury or death - with injury being deemed to be Assault resulting the level of injury sustained, and death being Murder.

Still an on-going process this - so feel free to pick holes in my Policy for Law Reform

A dictatorship, led by me is the only way forward for this country - you'll all vote for me - right? Every vote for me comes with a "Get out of Death Squad Visit Free" card.

[Stingo]

"Barbaric!! I would never dream of doing such a thing to a live animal" said the master of the hunt.


You're feeling brave today, eh? I agree completely tbh.

:lol: I know - but I thought the comparison was interesting although it does go slightly off topic as hunting is really another issue. The culprit in this case doesn't seem to have much if any remorse - the huntsman (dogs & horses type) feel that there is nothing wrong with what he is doing - so is there a difference between man feeds cat to dog ...and... man feeds fox to dogs - the physical result of each case being rather similar. I imagine a hunting thread could get quite heated, after all we are a nation of animal lovers!!? :?

[SoulKiss]

so is there a difference between man feeds cat to dog ...and... man feeds fox to dogs - the physical result of each case being rather similar.

Yes, the Fox is Vermin and a Menace to Farmers. The cat isnt.

However I do disagree with fox-hunting as there are much better/more humane ways of dealing with foxes - it seems a lot of effort to get all that riding gear dry-cleaned, the horses saddled and the dogs out of the kennel x 20 to kill a single fox.

What gets me is those Vet/RSPCA shows - "We found this fox trapped in a fence/rabbit in a sewer/common pest animal, so we sent someone out and used a lot of vets time patching it up at great expense"

In those situations the RSPCA guys should just put the animal down on site.

[Peter Henry]

Some piece of **** Spaniard was in court this week for doing something even more premeditated. He tied a cat up by it's rear legs and then whilst the wretched creature was hanging uposide down, he took a mghty swing with a massive machete and cut it's f*cking head off!

He did this whilst his equally scum bag friend filmed the whole episode. totally disgraceful.

[Paws]

However I do disagree with fox-hunting as there are much better/more humane ways of dealing with foxes - it seems a lot of effort to get all that riding gear dry-cleaned, the horses saddled and the dogs out of the kennel x 20 to kill a single fox.
.

Im sorry huni, but there IS NOT a quicker/more easier way to kill foxes, you have to be a sh*t hot shot to kill one out right if your shooting them, 9/10 times all that happens is that they are wounded and so crawl away to die a slow painful death, poison is the same, so are traps and the trouble with those 2 methods are that they dont just kill foxes-other animals are killed by them aswell!
I live on farm, and yes i 100% support hunting, if you guys could see the trauma and damage foxes do to innocent new born lambs in spring...i await the "Well why dont you keep the sheep inside etc" argument :roll:

*This is MY opinion/view, i do not expect everyone to agree with it but i dont expect to be slated for it* :)

[Tomcat]

Oh my god that is horrid. What sort of people can do this? I despair :cry:

(referring to P Henry there)

[Luckypants]

Live in the country and agree with Paws. The most vocal opponents of fox hunting tend to be from the towns. Lady down the hill from me was anti-hunting and made herself really popular with the locals when she moved here.... NOT.

She keeps chickens and a fox got in one day, killed them all and ate none of them. Foxes kill for sport as well as food. She now supports hunting the foxes.

We don't tell you how to live your lives, don't tell us how to live ours.

[UlsterSV]

Paws I'm surprised you say that about shooting foxes. I've never shot a fox personally, but have seen them shot and they hardly ever got away. If using shotguns two heavy cartridges should end the majority of foxes, provided they're being shot at the right distance. Though I don't oppose hunting foxes with dogs, I'd rather see them shot.

[Paws]

Live in the country and agree with Paws. The most vocal opponents of fox hunting tend to be from the towns. .

I think if people actually came to the meets and saw that not everyone is a snooty rich land owner then opinions could be changed, i love going to the xmas day and boxing day meets-its sooo cute seeing the tiny lil kids balanced on top of a fat little pony, tinsel everywhere, whilst mum/dad tows them round on a leadrope :D :D
If i could find a calm enough horse (sadly my in laws 2 are abit too mad!) id join the hunt instead of following on foot/in the landie.
Ive met the hunt whilst being out on a very grubby, overweight horse, had no saddle on, i had jeans and wellys on-did they look at me in disgust?/ nope, one of the follwers held onto annie for me whilst they passed, everyone said hello or smiled, and one gentleman rode halfway back to the farm with me. :D

[Kilted Ginger]

**Warning do not read if easily upset***


There was a couple of cases a while back that took the biscuit, A guy tied his own dog to a post and shot it with an air rifle 30 ish times, sspca rescued it and treated and rehomed it. Dont know if he was prosecuted.

2 cats tails were tied together with string and thrown over a swing in the local park, cats fought and killed each other hanging from swing, no one was caught or prosecuted.

Yes as you can see we are a nation of animal lovers. Anyone who demonstrates this level of cruelty should be removed from the genepool, the only reason they limit it to animals is there location and possible consequences, hence the acts of barbarism against humans all over the world.

[Paws]

provided they're being shot at the right distance. .

You hit the nail right on the head with that comment....trouble is A) alot of people cant shoot straight and B) dont shoot at the right range.

[gettin2dizzy]

i can see the appeal in screaming across the country on a horse with no set route. I'd rather do it on a motocross bike, but it does sound fun. Its just a pity it has to end (sometimes -granted) with the fox being mauled. I know people protest that this doesn't happen and that the dogs get pulled back, but from my experience this isn't true.
halfway through this borat interviews some fox hunters - its a bit eye opening! and so so funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFP-MktgOKU
just listen to the guy sitting on the horse - he's too honest

[timwilky]

provided they're being shot at the right distance. .

You hit the nail right on the head with that comment....trouble is A) alot of people cant shoot straight and B) dont shoot at the right range.

Problem there is whenever I was out with a 12 I saw plenty of foxes, but whenever I was out with a rifle I very rarely saw them.

We used to have to lure the *******s with an old carcass to get a decent shot from under cover and a quick kill. a heck of a long wait and not much fun.

BTW I have also shot/killed a few dogs so that will keep the moggie brigade happy. One guy had the cheek to ask me if I had seen his dog. "Yes" says I it is locked in the shed, You get it back when we get £40 for the lamb it killed. Eventually he coughed up and I gave him his dog in a bin liner. He had the nerve to call the police. My local copper laughed when he heard how I got the money out the ******* who let his dogs simply roam.

[SoulKiss]

Ok so what I get from what you are saying Paws is that us townies that know nothing should shut up.

Which to be honest is just about right.

I guess the "ritual" that goes with the organised hunts is actually part of country life, and if anyone on the "think of the kids" brigade complains about the presence of children, well I guess what it actually teaches them is that foxes are a menace to their way of life (dead livestock) and not the cute things you see on TV.

So maybe I will move my view to "I dont like fox hunting but it seems, from what I have been told, to be the best way of dealing with the issue".

Nothing living thing should be torn apart by another for sport, but having seen Jimmy's Farm on TV (Jamie Olivers mate) and the number of corpses left when a fox got into his poulty area, one fox corpse against half a dozen lamb is a pretty good deal.

David

[Paws]

Ok so what I get from what you are saying Paws is that us townies that know nothing should shut up.

Which to be honest is just about right.

I guess the "ritual" that goes with the organised hunts is actually part of country life, and if anyone on the "think of the kids" brigade complains about the presence of children, well I guess what it actually teaches them is that foxes are a menace to their way of life (dead livestock) and not the cute things you see on TV.

So maybe I will move my view to "I dont like fox hunting but it seems, from what I have been told, to be the best way of dealing with the issue".

Nothing living thing should be torn apart by another for sport, but having seen Jimmy's Farm on TV (Jamie Olivers mate) and the number of corpses left when a fox got into his poulty area, one fox corpse against half a dozen lamb is a pretty good deal.

David


Sk-top post mate, very well put together and honest. :smt038

[SoulKiss]

Ok so what I get from what you are saying Paws is that us townies that know nothing should shut up.

Which to be honest is just about right.

I guess the "ritual" that goes with the organised hunts is actually part of country life, and if anyone on the "think of the kids" brigade complains about the presence of children, well I guess what it actually teaches them is that foxes are a menace to their way of life (dead livestock) and not the cute things you see on TV.

So maybe I will move my view to "I dont like fox hunting but it seems, from what I have been told, to be the best way of dealing with the issue".

Nothing living thing should be torn apart by another for sport, but having seen Jimmy's Farm on TV (Jamie Olivers mate) and the number of corpses left when a fox got into his poulty area, one fox corpse against half a dozen lamb is a pretty good deal.

David


Sk-top post mate, very well put together and honest. :smt038

Ta - and for the observant I just noticed that I mixed two stories in my last paragraph, Jimmy lost chickens and the like - the lambs I mentioned were from Paws's earlier post

[hovis]

when you kill your first fox, you get the dead fox & rub all its blood over your face :shock:

sounds like fun :roll: =;

:why:

[UlsterSV]

provided they're being shot at the right distance. .

You hit the nail right on the head with that comment....trouble is A) alot of people cant shoot straight and B) dont shoot at the right range.

Fair enough but a good caller can bring a fox in to 15 or 20 yards. You'd be doing well to miss! Shooting is probably more efficient so hunting with dogs is probs more of a cultural thing.

[Stingo]

Hmm...some interesting points...me? Raised on farm land...went pheasant beating as a lad, and was taken rabbiting with Jack Russells by the bloke down the lane.

Whilst I accept that foxes are a pest and, like many other animals, need to be controlled for various reasons, I think what grates with many people, whether they be from out in the sticks or from the screaming metropolis, is when people (not all, but lots)from 'the hunt' say that they are doing it to rid the area of a pest, it's for the benefit of the countryside, it's this, it's that. Come on...just admit it...IT'S FOR THE ENJOYMENT. Culture, children, a good time etc has already been alluded to.


Lets not forget, foxes kill - that's what they do. Didn't somebody earlier say that they kill for sport as well as food? So do we. So that makes it alright to rip the little sucker apart with a mob of hounds whilst galloping hell bound up hill & down dale with little respect for people's property or boundaries, does it?


Anyway...whichever side of the fence you're on, there remains a problem. Damn fox needs to be controlled - perhaps each farmer needs to have a sharp shooter paid for by the glorious public...after all preservation of livestock is in all our interests...isn't it?




(Blimey - who rattled my cage?)

[northwind]

A mate of mine... (Well, actually, not a mate at all, he's a ****... A mate of mine's boyfriend :) ) has worked as a gamekeeper on several hillfarms- sheep and grouse, for about 20 years. He'd laugh in your face if you told him that shooting foxes was ineffective, he's never allowed a hunt on land he's managed but he's never had any problem with foxes. I'm not a total townie but I don't really have a particularily personal informed opinion on the hunts- I've seen times where a hunt's caused a lot of property damage and not even caught the thing, though.

One thing he said that I remember very well... He said that people think shooting foxes takes too long, since it can take days to get a good shot. But it only takes one person (better with 2 or 3, but one can do it) whereas a full hunt takes a massive staff, as well as all the preparation. In terms of man-hours, he reckons shooting's far more effective. And bear in mind here, we're talkign about a man who runs grouse moors, he's not your bleeding heart.

[Smurf]

Whilst I accept that foxes are a pest and, like many other animals, need to be controlled for various reasons, I think what grates with many people, whether they be from out in the sticks or from the screaming metropolis, is when people (not all, but lots)from 'the hunt' say that they are doing it to rid the area of a pest, it's for the benefit of the countryside, it's this, it's that. Come on...just admit it...IT'S FOR THE ENJOYMENT. Culture, children, a good time etc has already been alluded to.

Same here, I grew up on a farm and we had our fair share of problems with fox's. They're interesting animals but are brutal killers and cause carnage as me and my sister found out when we went to feed the geese one morning (Remember that bit at the beginning of Saving Private Ryan :D ) but we'd never let the local hunt on our land. They cause damage and weren't in it for any altruistic reasons. We controlled the fox's with better security in the pens and shot one or two of them if they got too bold.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Bring back bear baiting, c*ck fighting etc. At least we would have some decent entertainment instead of all this jungle crap

Classic Mr Wilky quote there - glad to see your feeling yourself today - just dont do it too much or you will go blind. :twisted:

OK, now my Tuppenceworth.

Subject to further clarification/consideration, anyone who steps into the realm of Crime (as in breaking criminal law rather than civil) should be deemed to have decided to opt out of society until they have served their sentence.

This would mean that by commiting the act of breaking into your house, they are no longer protected by the law, so when you beat the carp out of them, they cannot sue, as they have no access to the law.

While in prison they have no rights to the law, they do have certain rights - basic food, a clean bed, the facilities to care for their hygene, but thats it. No Playstations, no studying for degrees.

Rather than try and teach them the error of their ways, just lock em up, and let the experience of being locked up be the deterrent for ever doing anything that could get them locked up again.

Teach kids in schools EXACTLY what happens in these prisons, take them to them so that they can see what they face if they step out of line.

Once out, and again part of society, law applies again, except that if they step over the line again, any sentence is automatically doubled.

Make the punishment so harsh that no crime is worth the price.

David

Just wanted to bring this post back up, because there are alot of sentiments here that people will have alot of sympathy with, but are terribly miss guided.

Firstly, you're assuming that prison is a pleasant place (it isn't) even if inmates get to watch TV.

As much as we'd like for the prison population to suffer as much as possible and not spend money on them, it's not a wise idea. The majority of the prison population are at some point going to be released. To reduce re-offending rates, you need to give ex-cons a stake in society, not isolate them from it.

And even if prison was an utter hell hole (like it used to be) it wouldn't serve as a greater deterrent at all. Studies have shown that criminals, or potential criminals, weigh up their need to commit the crime against the risk of being caught and that's it. If you want a greater deterrent then the government needs to invest in creating a competent police force/CPS.

[Alpinestarhero]

If you want a greater deterrent then the government needs to invest in creating a competent police force/CPS.

So GASTO's arn't very effective then...?

Matt

[Ping]

Right, I've got one gripe from reading the last couple of pages on fox hunting.

Seems the main argument FOR hunting with dogs is because foxes tear apart people's chickens, lambs 'for sport'... So it's fair to tear them apart back... ?

ONE major thing you seem to be forgetting here is that HUMANS are the only animals on this planet with the ability to have morals, or a sense of right and wrong. Foxes do what they do because they are foxes. They do not have the ability to have morals or a sense of right and wrong.

'A bear that kills a person is not evil, it is just being a bear.'

It's the people who send the dogs in to tear them apart... THE PEOPLE who have this higher sense of being... So make as many excuses as you want, it's still an inhumane way to hunt and kill something.

At least the intent of hunting with a rifle is to make it quick, whether it works out that way or not.

[Steve H]

Ping. :thumbsup: very well said indeed.

[Kate]

Interesting. So its ok for foxes to kill for pleasure because 'they are foxes and thats what they do?' The guy gave the cat to his dog to kill for pleasure but thats ok as he has had a poor childhood?

I think the point that many have made is there there isn't any humane way of killing anything. Foxes are vermin and the numbers need to be kept down, but how to do it? I personally do not have problems with fox hunting, I've seen too many results of animals dying slow painful deaths from infected gunshots or being caught in a trap and slowly starve to death NOT to disagree with it.

[Smurf]

Right, I've got one gripe from reading the last couple of pages on fox hunting.

Seems the main argument FOR hunting with dogs is because foxes tear apart people's chickens, lambs 'for sport'... So it's fair to tear them apart back... ?


Quite right, it is not. You'd be surprised how unpopular the hunts are in many rural community's both for the ineffectiveness of their method and, frankly, the kind of people that compromise the ride. One thing, however, that is guaranteed to get people behind them though is a common enemy and that's why you see so many people at the rallies


ONE major thing you seem to be forgetting here is that HUMANS are the only animals on this planet with the ability to have morals, or a sense of right and wrong.

If you define morality as knowing right from wrong and acting accordingly then all the dogs and cats I've had sure have been moral. The look on the cats face if she sits on the sofa (only happens if I go away on a trip for a while) and gets caught... :D

[SoulKiss]

The look on the cats face if she sits on the sofa (only happens if I go away on a trip for a while) and gets caught... :D

You DONT let your cat on the sofa - you meanie !!!!

RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!

[Kate]

Lol, not a chance of enforcing that one in my place!

I do try and stop the big cat from sleeping on the tv though, which seems to be his favourite place at the moment! He weighs about 7.5 kilo's so am worried that he will damage the tv.

[Smurf]

This cat could make the Olympic shedding team and God help you if you drop a coat or a bag on the floor for more than 2.5 seconds cos she's straight on it and fast asleep. :D

[Amanda M]

This cat could make the Olympic shedding team and God help you if you drop a coat or a bag on the floor for more than 2.5 seconds cos she's straight on it and fast asleep. :D

Yep, I'm with you there! Ours does exactly the same thing :lol:

[timwilky]

Interesting. So its ok for foxes to kill for pleasure because 'they are foxes and thats what they do?' The guy gave the cat to his dog to kill for pleasure but thats ok as he has had a poor childhood?

I think the point that many have made is there there isn't any humane way of killing anything. Foxes are vermin and the numbers need to be kept down, but how to do it? I personally do not have problems with fox hunting, I've seen too many results of animals dying slow painful deaths from infected gunshots or being caught in a trap and slowly starve to death NOT to disagree with it.

There is nothing wrong with killing for pleasure. man is the ultimate predator on this planet, just for many they seem to abdicate the job to a 3rd party.

When my daughter first moved into the university halls she got the veggie "If you had to kill it you wouldn't eat it" crap. Considering her first job when she left school was at a local abattoir. Her response was not only could she kill it, she also knew how to butcher it as well. My kids were brought up with rabbit and pheasant as normal parts of their diet. My son was only 12 when he shot his first stag. Both my daughters have shot game.

Most kids in my village will have at some time gone lamping. Using wippets, greyhounds etc to take whatever they can catch. Normally rabbits and hares. But if something else gets in the way, at least it will be dead by the time you can get to it.

[Stingo]

Right, I've got one gripe from reading the last couple of pages on fox hunting.

Seems the main argument FOR hunting with dogs is because foxes tear apart people's chickens, lambs 'for sport'... So it's fair to tear them apart back... ?

STUFF

MORE STUFF

At least the intent of hunting with a rifle is to make it quick, whether it works out that way or not.

Sort of what I said...


Kate said:
Interesting. So its ok for foxes to kill for pleasure because 'they are foxes and thats what they do?' The guy gave the cat to his dog to kill for pleasure but thats ok as he has had a poor childhood?

Foxes aren't killing for pleasure...it's what they do.

Ping wrote
'A bear that kills a person is not evil, it is just being a bear.'

Just thought I'd mention it...

[Ping]

Interesting. So its ok for foxes to kill for pleasure because 'they are foxes and thats what they do?' The guy gave the cat to his dog to kill for pleasure but thats ok as he has had a poor childhood?

I think the point that many have made is there there isn't any humane way of killing anything. Foxes are vermin and the numbers need to be kept down, but how to do it? I personally do not have problems with fox hunting, I've seen too many results of animals dying slow painful deaths from infected gunshots or being caught in a trap and slowly starve to death NOT to disagree with it.

I don't recall saying it was 'ok'. I was stating that they're foxes, it's what they do. They do not have the capability of 'higher' brain function like humans have as far as right and wrong goes.

Neither did I say anything about the bloke who did that to the cat. I find it disgusting since we as creatures with the capacity for 'higher' thinking should never do something like that.

I haven't said 'oi, leave foxes alone, it's not their fault!'. I have stated that HOW we choose to deal with any given 'pest' is the issue. We are not animals, we have developed moral standing, right and wrong, etc. At this point in our development hunting for sport - AND in such a way that it causes extra stress and pain for the hunted - is morally wrong.

Using a rifle CAN be more humane than being chased down and torn apart by dogs. Yes it happens everyday as a normal part of nature but we do not need to use it as OUR method of hunting.