Goverment Petition: Stop Road Charging Schemes

[glade]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.

The idea of tracking every vehicle at all times is sinister and wrong. Road pricing is already here with the high level of taxation on fuel. The more you travel - the more tax you pay.

It will be an unfair tax on those who live apart from families and poorer people who will not be able to afford the high monthly costs.

Please Mr Blair - forget about road pricing and concentrate on improving our roads to reduce congestion.

[kwak zzr]

its a good idea but i think Mr Blair has his mind on making some money.

[northwind]

Most studies show that poorer people and people who don't use cars much will be better off, since the by-the-mile schemes would replace road tax.

I still agree entirely with the goals here though... Tracking's not something I want to see, and as was pointed out petrol taxation achieves exactly the same thing without the huge iunfrastrructure investment and big brother elements, and also rewards people who use economic cars. You can't drive without burnign fuel after all.

[Marshall]

Most studies show that poorer people and people who don't use cars much will be better off, since the by-the-mile schemes would replace road tax.

I still agree entirely with the goals here though... Tracking's not something I want to see, and as was pointed out petrol taxation achieves exactly the same thing without the huge iunfrastrructure investment and big brother elements, and also rewards people who use economic cars. You can't drive without burnign fuel after all.

i agree with you northwind, if they scrapped road tax, and put it on fuel, those who drive more, and use uneconomical cars, will have to pay more for the upkeep of said roads (in theory). But id want to see a break down of the cost of fuel, before and after the road tax was included. it would prob only be a penny on fuel anyway

[glade]

I personally don't think an online petition will do much good, but every little helps eh?

I read something recently about insurance companies starting to introduce the black boxes in cars effectively meaning they know where you are, when, what speed you were doing etc etc. Some would say so long as you never speed then you're fine... But that removes the choice of driving as appropriate to the conditions and turns everyone into robots.

'but you don't have to have a black box'... yet. Its only a matter of time before they're standard fit items and insurance premiums for non-black boxes will start to rise.

I just think the motorist is just an easy target, (well those that buy car tax and insurance, don't get the black boxes chipped/encased in lead etc). I've even come round to thinking that the environmental argument is flawed... because we could invest in more nuclear power instead of coal, but we're decomissioning the nuclear sites, and because the way developing countries like china/india (and of course our old pal USA) are using resources; whatever we do in britian won't make the smallest difference.

[Fizzy Fish]

Road user charging is about more than just paying for the amount you travel (which is what the tax on petrol delivers), it's about trying to managing increasing levels of congestion. So the sort of schemes they're looking at will be based on where/when you're travelling rather than just mileage.

This has the advantage of going easier on people living in rural areas, where car use is pretty much essential, and being tougher on more congested urban areas during peak times where (in theory) there are other alternatives.

This is very much on the agenda nationwide, and is more of a case of when it happens rather than if - basically they're just waiting for the technology to be proven and someone with the political guts to make the change...

[northwind]

Road user charging is about more than just paying for the amount you travel (which is what the tax on petrol delivers), it's about trying to managing increasing levels of congestion. So the sort of schemes they're looking at will be based on where/when you're travelling rather than just mileage.


Ah, the rare valid point :)

[timwilky]

I see nothing wrong with road charging if

1) they are local and applied purely as a congestion reduction exercise.

However if they are applied as an additional form of tax then who ever proposes them will never be voted into office so it will never happen.

Many people do not have the luxury of public transport or local shops. My parents had a bus service available to them on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

I can use a train to travel from Preston to Knutsford where I work. But the trains are not co-ordinated so I am therefore required to spend 6 hours waiting in Manchester overnight in order to catch the first train to Knutsford. Therefore I have to use a car.


Before any road charging can be introduced. Usable and affordable public transport must exist

[northwind]

I've no problem at all with teh idea of road charging... It's the idea of vehicle tracking that I don't like.

[timwilky]

tracking....when I got my new car back in August I had to get a hands free fitted. The installer told me I had a tracker fitted. Now I didn't order it so did the company or lease company.

I don't like the idea that the company may be able to monitor my movement when I am "Working from Home"

[Fizzy Fish]

I see nothing wrong with road charging if

1) they are local and applied purely as a congestion reduction exercise.

However if they are applied as an additional form of tax then who ever proposes them will never be voted into office so it will never happen.

Many people do not have the luxury of public transport or local shops. My parents had a bus service available to them on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

I can use a train to travel from Preston to Knutsford where I work. But the trains are not co-ordinated so I am therefore required to spend 6 hours waiting in Manchester overnight in order to catch the first train to Knutsford. Therefore I have to use a car.


Before any road charging can be introduced. Usable and affordable public transport must exist

The likelihood is that anything brought in would be accompanied by a reduction/removal of other motoring related taxes, as a sweetener. And I should imagine that they'll try and get us used to the idea gradually by doing little schemes here and there until we're over the shock. But it's still a very brave politician who takes the plunge on this one!!

Oh and if you live in Knutsford you should be OK, but i reckon we're gonna get hit bigtime in London!! :shock:

[Jelster]

Ness, I appreciate that you work in this business, and know a lot more about it than others, but:

Public transport in this country is a joke. Why would I want to spend £15 per day travelling into London by public transport which is unreliable and uncomfortable ?

I spent 3 days in town last week. One day the tube system was almost brought to its knees, another my overground train was 20 minutes late and on the other day the closure of a tube line led me to having to grab a taxi to get to an appointment on time. Not to mention the fact that I had to stand between one guy with BO and another with severe "garlic breath" for over 20 minutes on the tube.

Before you can start laying any further taxation on motorists, there must be a major revision in the way public transport is run. It works fine in a number of European countries because of the amount of investment it has, and the fact that fares are subsidised.

If the government really wanted us on public transport they'd do something about it. In my opinion, they see this as another way to tax the working classes, especially those who work in the big cities and are therefore more likely to earn higher wages. They already have over 40% of what I earn, plus all the other taxes I have to pay, why should I give them more without them giving me something in return??

.

[Dicky Ticker]

I would like to know how the haulage industry will cope taking the following into account

1] 100% of goods travel by road at some time getting to their final destination
2] Highest operating costs in Europe,primarily fuel
3] Limited to the hours we can work
4] Limited where and when we can drive,night time driving bans and not all premises are 24hrs
5]Shortage of drivers and falling standards due to immigrant influx
That is just a few of the problems


In short,any increases we are subjected to will be passed on to the retail, purchasers be it food clothing, books, videos, original equipment or spares,almost everything you or I buy will be dearer
Think a little deeper before you decide on it being good or bad for the city/rural/ commuting individual

[gettin2dizzy]

public transport is so so so bad. I've had a set of wheels since i could drive because i need to have access to that freedom. Blackboxes are just another step reducing any freedom possible. The world could never cope with everyone sticking to the rules as we'd end up like those american christians! :P
The roads are only congested because theres a prehistoric road system in use. Other cities can managed it. Maybe that needs investigating first- for the benefit of the country and all ;)

[timwilky]

Any truth in the rumor I am about to create that you will be required to insert your government issued ID card into the tracker box as not only do the government need to know what cars are where. They also need to know who is in the car.

Multi occupancy vehicles will require the owner to purchase and have installed by an authorised installation engineer at the owners expense a card reader per seat. These readers to be linked to the car ignition. The car will not run without a valid card inserted per occupied seat.

Satellite tracking will be used to lock the car accelerator and prevent speeding. It will also be interfaced with all roadside cameras to take a photo of the driver and occupants and cross reference them with the prerequisite installed ID cards.

Step two will be to require the compulsory distruction of all vehicles deemed to be anti social. That will include all motorcyles, All cars that have an engine size above 900cc.

The only exception to these rules will be for members of Parliament and the police who will be permitted souped up vehicle of 1600cc to catch those few violators of the proposed anti social vehicle rules.

All freight is to be transported by train and electric truck. don't say it is unfeasible, the dairy industry proved for decades that they could transport goods by electric vehicles.


OK rumor mill start churning

[Fizzy Fish]

Any truth in the rumor I am about to create that you will be required to insert your government issued ID card into the tracker box as not only do the government need to know what cars are where. They also need to know who is in the car.

Multi occupancy vehicles will require the owner to purchase and have installed by an authorised installation engineer at the owners expense a card reader per seat. These readers to be linked to the car ignition. The car will not run without a valid card inserted per occupied seat.

Satellite tracking will be used to lock the car accelerator and prevent speeding. It will also be interfaced with all roadside cameras to take a photo of the driver and occupants and cross reference them with the prerequisite installed ID cards.

Step two will be to require the compulsory distruction of all vehicles deemed to be anti social. That will include all motorcyles, All cars that have an engine size above 900cc.

The only exception to these rules will be for members of Parliament and the police who will be permitted souped up vehicle of 1600cc to catch those few violators of the proposed anti social vehicle rules.

All freight is to be transported by train and electric truck. don't say it is unfeasible, the dairy industry proved for decades that they could transport goods by electric vehicles.


OK rumor mill start churning

:lol: :lol: