K1 SVS wont start again

[fizzwheel]

Symtoms are. Bike wont turn over when it does it runs for a few seconds and then stalls. When it does run it sounds really 'flat' and the idle is lumpy.

Battery is fully charged and was bike was running fine. Until Friday morning 01-12-06. I filled the tank up fully with Petrol on thursday night. 30-11-06

I popped the tank up and took the air filter out this morning and theres alot about 5mm depth of petrol in the airbox, which I guess is causing the bike to run extremely rich and thats whats causing my problem. I dont understand why its doing this though. I had alot of problems before, caused by me not connecting the crank case breathers properly to the airbox, I've had starting problems since, and now I can see a pattern it always happens after I fill the bike with fuel.

Can anybody give me some idea of whats going on.

Thread documenting the problems I've had is here. Bear in mind I've had the carbs off and had to give them some abuse to get the choke plunger screws out. Have I caused another problem. I'm thinking possibly stuck carb float or I havent re-connected the fuel tank gubbins back together properly. Or the vacum tap on the fuel tank has got sh*t or gunk in it.

http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=46761

Help please. I'm getting frustrated with it now.

Thanks

Fizz

[Viney]

If you move closer, id come and have a look!

Remove choke cable one end at a time and see if it starts then??

It could be a poor sliding cable/Damaged spring.

Water in the fuel?

I would just go back to the start. Check the carbs over. If you did strip the carbs down, then there is a possibilty that the float has not set properly?

[fizzwheel]

I've taken the air filter out and mopped up all the fuel that was swimming about in there, I suspect that if I try to start it tonight when I get home it'll start OK.

I dont think its water in the fuel, I drained the tank when I put the bike back together and its been filled with fresh fuel a few times. Its had 6 or 7 tankfulls now.

I think its time to go back to the begining and take carbs off again and strip them down and give everything a good clean and check that nothing is broken.

Last time I didnt strip the carbs down all I did was take them off the bike in order to get better access to the choke plunger screws as they were rusted solid. When I put them back on it had new throttle cables as well as a new choke cable.

I'm wandering if though in taking the carbs off the bike the float in one of the floats in one of the carbs is stuck or theres mank in the carbs from where it stood for a few months, maybe residue from stale fuel and the floats arent well floating properly :oops: Just seems weird that this seems to happen everytime I fill the bike up with fuel.

[Blue_SV650S]

I'm wandering if though in taking the carbs off the bike the float in one of the floats in one of the carbs is stuck or theres mank in the carbs from where it stood for a few months, maybe residue from stale fuel and the floats arent well floating properly :oops: Just seems weird that this seems to happen everytime I fill the bike up with fuel.

I'd bet my mortgage on a 'float' issue ... its either stuck, sunk or you have not got a seal on the float valve ... i.e a bit of mank/muck preventing a seal.

I'd be straight into the carbs on this one ... :(

[Biker Biggles]

But why is the airbox full of petrol?Surely an overfull float chamber would'nt allow fuel to pump up there?

[fizzwheel]

I dont know, but if the floats stuck it'll keep filling the float chamber I would think. Petrols got to to go somwhere as it cant go back into the tank so I'm guessing its flooding the float chamber and then back filling into the airbox.

Right take the carbs apart it is then...

[Blue_SV650S]

But why is the airbox full of petrol?Surely an overfull float chamber would'nt allow fuel to pump up there?

I see what you are trying to say, but if the floats allow the fuel level to rise, then fuel can seep out of the jets. Also, logically where else is the fuel coming from!? ;)

excluding a leaking the the fuel tank coincidentally right about the filter intake hole, the only other way to see fuel in the airbox is if a valve has gone and you are getting gasses 'blowing' out if the carb ... but as the bike ran before it was parked up, this is unlikely to be the cause?

[fizzwheel]

Apart from a stuck / seized choke cable, bike ran fine before it was parked up.

[netsurfer]

Bike wont turn over


Careful! with the other description of petrol in the airbox I would say the reason it wouldn't turn over is because one of the cylinders was flooded and on compression stroke.
If you try to turn the engine over in this state you risk bending a con-rod or damaging the starter gear

I'm sure you know this already, just making sure :)

Pete

[fizzwheel]

No I didnt know that, cheers for the tip off.

As I suspected, I've removed the airbox and now its pumped the contents of the petrol oil mix that was in the sump all over the garage floor again.

So now it needs an oil change again as well as the petrol must be draining back down into the sump and the oil has got contaiminated.

[netsurfer]

No I didnt know that, cheers for the tip off.

As I suspected, I've removed the airbox and now its pumped the contents of the petrol oil mix that was in the sump all over the garage floor again.

So now it needs an oil change again as well as the petrol must be draining back down into the sump and the oil has got contaiminated.

Sounds like a needle in one or both of the carbs arent seating properly (maybe some sort of gunk between it and the needle seat)

Could also happen if the bike fell over

Pete

[fizzwheel]

Bikes been sat in the garage for about 8 months over the summer. Its definately not fallen over. So I think therefore that theres some gunk in the carbs like you suggest. Ah well I know what I'm doing this weekend then.

[Blue_SV650S]

Bike wont turn over

I would say the reason it wouldn't turn over is because one of the cylinders was flooded and on compression stroke.
....
Pete

It is turning over, just not happily running right??

But yes Hydraulic lock is bad news ;)

Once you have sorted things out, take the plugs out and turn the bike over for a bit to clear out any excess fuel eliminating the risk of potential hydraulic lock!

[Blue_SV650S]

Bikes been sat in the garage for about 8 months over the summer. Its definately not fallen over. So I think therefore that theres some gunk in the carbs like you suggest. Ah well I know what I'm doing this weekend then.

Sat 8 months, yep that's gummed carbs ;)

[fizzwheel]

No it wasnt turning over. It just buzzes like the battery is flat. When it does this I just give up and dont try and start it again until I've cleaned all the mank out of the airbox / top of the carbs.

Now that I've taken the airbox off and its pumped all the petrol oil mix all over my garage floor it runs alright now. But where the oil has got mixed with the petrol its so thin its blowing back past the rings and its burning oil. It did this last time If I change the oil and flush out all the cack from the bike it'll run alright. The engine doesnt knock or rattle everything sounds fine. It been OK for the last two weeks and I've been using the bike daily for my commute to work.

Like I said before I've been through this process 3 times now. Every time I fill the tank with petrol it then fills the airbox with petrol again. Its always linked to filling the bike with fuel.

[netsurfer]

Clean the carbs out, meanwhile if you dont want to strip it down I would suggest change the oil and every time you stop the bike, switch the fuel tap off - the SV has one, right?

Bikes with vacuum operated fuel taps will not leak into the sump like this, unless left on "prime"

Pete

[fizzwheel]

I'm just a bit daunted by taking the carbs apart, but 3 months ago I was daunted by taking the carbs off to replace the choke & throttle cables. so I can do it, its just a confidence thing.

It'll get an oil change now before I ride it again. I'm not riding it with the oil thin like it is, thats not going to do any good at all.

The SV has a vacum operated fuel tap. Unless manks got down into the fuel tap as well and its causing it to stick open...

I think now that I'm going to strip and clean the carbs anyway and then I can rule that out. Theres gotta be a reason behind this. I want to find out what it is now.

[fizzwheel]

Update in case anybody is interested.

I ordered a new fuel tap a while ago which arrived just after new year. I took friday off and fitted the new fuel tap. This one I cant syphone petrol when theres no vacum in the same way I could the old one. So I definately think my fuel tap was knackered.

I fitted the fuel tap and the bike started up fine. Took it for 50 mile odd ride on Friday and filled the fuel tank right to the brim. We've been away to visit Liz's parents yesterday ( Sat ) and have come back today. I've just been out to the garage, theres no oil etc on the floor of the garage like I've had before and the bike doenst reek of petrol like it did before. It started the bike and it started first press of the starter. So I pretty confident that I've found the cause of the problem and sorted it out.

[Blue_SV650S]

Nice one :)

Have you taken the old tap apart?

[Stig]

Update in case anybody is interested.

I ordered a new fuel tap a while ago which arrived just after new year. I took friday off and fitted the new fuel tap. This one I cant syphone petrol when theres no vacum in the same way I could the old one. So I definately think my fuel tap was knackered.

I fitted the fuel tap and the bike started up fine. Took it for 50 mile odd ride on Friday and filled the fuel tank right to the brim. We've been away to visit Liz's parents yesterday ( Sat ) and have come back today. I've just been out to the garage, theres no oil etc on the floor of the garage like I've had before and the bike doenst reek of petrol like it did before. It started the bike and it started first press of the starter. So I pretty confident that I've found the cause of the problem and sorted it out.

Sorry Fizz, had I seen this earlier I would have suggested the fuel tap. I had the same thing on mine after changing fuel tanks. I rectified the issue by putting the old fuel tap on the new "second hand" tank. Issue resolved.

As I side note, if anyone ever has to take off the lines to the fuel tap. Make sure you put them back on the right way round. Otherwise you will find when trying to start the bike that fuel will be pouring straight into your exhaust. :lol:

[fizzwheel]

Blue - No I havent, Sat out on the shelf in the garage. I will pop it apart when I get a minute.

Bigape - No worries and yes after my faux pas with the crankcase breather hoses I made sure I had got the fuel tap pipes on correctly :oops: