Engine mods, need advice

[mrwolf]

Hi, this is my bike...
SV650s k3

http://clg.homeunix.com:8081/images/perso/sv650s.jpg

I got 73HP at wheel now and for a few moment I thinked about changing my bike for a Triumph Daytona 675 but after checking the price and the insurance cost even if I spend 5k-6k on my engine
it will cost less then if I bought the triumph or any gixxer

I already got:
K&N air filter
Full Hindle Exhaust Systeme
Power Commander III usb
-1 teeth front sprocket
+3 teeth rear sprocket

Want I want:
- reach at least 90HP more will be appreciate
- got 754cc with bored cylinder, new crank shaft and knife rod
- change valve spring
- Change cam shaft
- and find a way to get a higher rev
- change the "fly wheel" (if I got one) :P

the only probleme is I can't find any of the part accept piston, crank shaft and knife rod

I found piston from Wiseco inc.
crank shaft and knife rod from faliconcranks

the only valve spring I found is for GSX-R
didn't found any fly wheel or cam shaft
and don't know how to get a higher rev

can some one help me modifying my engine or if it's possible fit another engine from a superbike in my sv :P

Thanks

[gixxer1300r]

try here http://www.jhsracing.co.uk/suzuki_SV.htm

they sell any and everything you would need

[kwak zzr]

buy an sv1000s and keep a few thousand in the bank.

[northwind]

Higher rev is easy, SV400 CDI raises the rev limit. Cams too, there's allsorts of options there. I personally have no time at all for JHS Racing, but if you want to go nuts at an SV engine there's not an awful lot of options. Speaking to Steve Jordan's (or SV650Racer on this forum) and maybe Holeshot among others would be sensible.

But, before you even send a penny, check what sort of problems it'll give you for insurance. Mine is sitting pretty at 80bhp at the rear wheel without any heroic measures, along with suspension upgrades to match, and it's pushed my quotes through the roof- partly because so few places will quote me with replacement value. Most companies will charge you extra for the performance mods, and then only offer you the value of a standard bike- which is obviously taking the p if your engine work alone is worth more than the bike.

Don't even consider serious engine work on standard suspension, it's a total waste of money IMO. If you put a stock SV engine into a 675 chassis (using a magic wand, since it wouldn't fit, but bear with me...) I bet you a pound it'd be faster than a 675 engine in a stock SV chassis around the racetrack of your choice. Extra power's no use without the extra brake to stop it, and the ability to put it on the ground.

In fact, I'd honestly say if you want to go faster but keep the SV, don't spend a penny on engine work- go directly to serious suspension work, do not pass go. K6 GSXR forks, revalves to suit if need be, something like a Penske dual-action on the rear. Or as an absolute bare minimum, cartridge emulators in the front and a GSXR shock in the rear. The SV engine is a lovely package out of the box, and the suspension's not. Once you have the suspension and brakes working really well, then you can attack the engine.

TL1000 engine into an SV frame's been done, but it's a huge amount of work. The only real reason to do it is for the sheer hell of it IMO :) The sensible thing to do, if you want a large power increase, is to take your ignition barrel, unbolt it, and bolt it into an SV thou or TL... Or GSXR, is probably more sensible still

But, what do I know, I have an 80bhp SV with GSXR and Ohlins suspension, I'm in no position to lecture as to not throwing money at an SV. It's very close to my ideal bike, to be honest. I don't like heavy bikes, massive power, IL4s or anything that's too good :) And I really like messing with the things.

Just remember, no matter what you do it'll never be a Daytona.

[mrwolf]

Thanks gixxer1300r

but they don't have valve spring or fly wheel I'll send and e-mail to know if they have it or not..

kwak zzr:

I already spend around 4k on my bike, I don't wanna sell it to do it again on another. but if I can fit a sv1000 engine on my sv650 thats may be the job....

anyone know a place where they do engine swap??

[northwind]

Twin Works Factory have stiffer valve springs, JHS probably do as well- I know they used to, with the Stage 3 cams. But that's something you fit if you have to, not because it gives any other benefits really. Fly wheel... Some people lighten the stock one, but I'm curious what you expect to get out of it- faster engine pickup of course but most likely, reduced drivability for the exact same reason, less rotating engine mass.

I bet you a pound you'd be cheaper having Spondon build you a frame to fit a TL motor into on SV geometry than you would having someone do the swap for you. From memory, it means major frame modifications, and also quite a lot of work to get round clearance problems at the front.

You'd absolutely, definately be cheaper getting a TL, that's for sure... I'm sort of curious where your £4000 has gone, tbh, I see the lowers of course- Poly 26? And powdercoated or anodised standard rear controls, the Hindle and PC (plus setup) and so on... Do you have secret suspension mods? Or were you including the value of the bike?

[fizzwheel]

You'd absolutely, definately be cheaper getting a TL, that's for sure... I'm sort of curious where your £4000 has gone,

Northy I think that might 4K US Dollars. Look at the reflector on the front forks I don't think thats a UK bike...

[dirtydog]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to notice that :lol: :lol:

[Sideshow#36]

yeah, also anybody noticed how it appears to be a black frame and its a K3?

[northwind]

Northy I think that might 4K US Dollars. Look at the reflector on the front forks I don't think thats a UK bike...

You know, you're clearly right :oops:

[mrwolf]

hi,

actually it's 4k$ canadian

and the frame is not black I powder Coat it Antracit and it cost me 800$

yes it's the lower fairing from poly26 Cost me arround 500$ canadian to have it
and another 800$ to paint it

power commander = 300$
tunning from a certified dyno jet shop = 300$
undertail = 200$
full hindle exhaust and pipe = near 1k$
and few other things like solo seat, grips, peg, better tire,

for sure I'll change my suspension before touching the engine, but for that I already know what I'll do.. or I think.. :P I'll just change the spring and add the valve in the shock, it supose to cost me around 250$ for the parts

I'll change the brake line for a stainless steel brake line and the chain and sprocket for a 520 kit

but for now before starting everything I'm stuck with the engine mods



northwind
...If you put a stock SV engine into a 675 chassis (using a magic wand, since it wouldn't fit, but bear with me...) I bet you a pound it'd be faster than a 675 engine in a stock SV chassis around the racetrack of your choice. ...
...
Just remember, no matter what you do it'll never be a Daytona.

Yeah I know I don't want to install any part from or to a daytona I just say that for a moment I would have a daytona 675 but I'll keep my SV and I just want to mod what I got ;)

I check http://www.twinworksfactory.com/ and they have a lot of stuff probably I'll find what I need there. thanks a lot..

if anyone got other advice or new idea I'll apreciate it ;)

[northwind]

Ah, $4000 CAD makes a lot more sense :oops: Zoran at Twin Works is pretty much The SV Man. You might find it worth your time to join SV Rider, it's a US-centric site but that's closer ;)

Hmm. The shock work you describe sounds just a little like an SV Race Shop job? If it is, avoid, they're either criminal or incompetent but I tend towards incompetent criminals. Work not done, work done wrong, rebuilt shocks that are unsafe to ride on, forks with a worse valving job than I'd do myself, parts charged for but not fitted, the list goes on :) They got well and truly Found Out, to the extent that they went and found a whole new bike to **** up, since they lost so much SV business.

[Stu]

yeah, also anybody noticed how it appears to be a black frame and its a K3?

But it has the K3 "Suzuki" on the tank, K3 colour etc.

[mrwolf]

got an anwser from Zoran from Twin Works Factory

what I say:
Hi,
I would like to know what can I do to increase the power of my SV650s 2003
I already have full exhaust systeme, Power commander III, K&N air filter, -1 teeth front sprocket, +3 tooth rear sprocket.
now I want to mod my engine... I would like to have:
754cc.
maximum of stable HP.
what exacly you have in your "70-100+ Horsepower Packages"
and at which cost?
Thanks for all your time


What he say:
anything over 2mm overbore is risk and not reliable.with 2mm over you can get 85-90 hp.
cost is around $4k(parts and labor).
--
Zoran Vujasinovic
Twin Works Factory


northwind: it's better for my suspension to get a gixxer fork and fit it on my sv?

[northwind]

Front end? Depends. You can fire in a Traxxion AK-20 kit, which by all accounts makes your stock front end better than the front end swap. But it costs a hell of a lot, whereas my GSXR front end swap actually paid for itself when I sold the stock parts, and also gave braking improvements. And cosmetics, of course :) The K6 GSXR front end is really quite superb, IMO, though anything can be improved on. Mine is a K2 front end, more or less, and it's absolutely night and day compared to stock. I've got completely standard internals for now, but that'll change next year.

Cartridge emulators are very good, but personally I don't rate them on economic grounds- they're less good than a GSXR front end valved to suit you, and can cost more. Insurance can be an issue though, with whole swaps.

There's a lot of differing opinions on this, but I'm thoroughly in the GSXR front end camp. It's economically sensible, it's extremely effective, it's DIYable and it looks the dogs. If you weigh more than maybe 12 stone, it's really a good idea to start to look at respringing and revalving a GSXR front, which does add expense, but then the same's true of stock parts.

I did the spring and oil swap before, which is a brilliant, simple mod that personally i think just about every SV owner should consider, apart from the freakishly skinny ones... But it just does not compare in any way to the higher quality upgrades. And from the sort of budget you're discussing I'd call it a false economy.

[northwind]

Oh aye, you'll hear differing opinions on the safety of big bores. What's important is your definition of acceptable risk, there. You can stick a 700cc kit onto a stock bottom end and deck the heads, and chances are it'll be fine. But there's always, always an increased risk when you start to cut into the manufacturer's safety margins. With something like hot exhaust cams, it's fairly trivial- you put overlal more stress on the bottom end due to the bigger bang, but that's all. With big bores, you add moving mass, you add power stress, and you remove safety margins from the bore thicknesses. How big a risk? It's really hard to say.

So, personally, I choose not to overbore. I might fit Busa pistons next year which, with decked heads, should take me up close to 85bhp, and the decreased moving mass should make that a fairly risk-neutral proposition. But I'm convinced... Lets say I'm convinced that there's a risk that there's a risk of catastrophic failure :) I don't know how big, but I love my bike and I don't want the engine to break in half. The sheer inconvenience of it alone is enough to put me off, replacing an engine's easy enough but I'd be on the buses for weeks and it'd drive me nuts. Engine swaps kill bike values too.

But, this is not a right or wrong thing. Since there's just plain not enough data out there to know for sure what's safe and what's not, you have to listen to people like Zoran, who's worked on hundreds of SVs, but also listen to those who disagree, like Steve Jordan for instance, then make your own decision.

[mrwolf]

thanks for the advice I really appreciate it.

I'll think about everything before making any choice for the engine and let you know for sure...


I think anyway before doing anything I need to upgrade my suspension...
as I understand from one of your earlier post you suggest to change both suspension? front and rear?

just to confirm.... from the worst to the best is it:

front suspension:
- SV stock
- SV with new Spring and valve
- Gixxer stock
- Gixxer with new spring

right?

if I change my front suspension for a gixxer one is there any year I need to stay with or any year will fit?

Do I need to change my triple clam too?

Thanks again for all the time you past to answer me :P

[lukemillar]

You'd absolutely, definately be cheaper getting a TL, that's for sure... I'm sort of curious where your £4000 has gone,

Northy I think that might 4K US Dollars. Look at the reflector on the front forks I don't think thats a UK bike...

I guessed that its US since it's not raining in the photograph!

[northwind]

front suspension:
- SV stock
- SV with new Spring and valve
- Gixxer stock
- Gixxer with new spring


Something very like that, yes. Hang on... Oh yes, disclaimer! I am not a pro , or SV rebuilding master, I'm just pretty good at SVs- so I'd take that into account too ;) People like Zoran, or Max at Traxxion, forgot more last time they got drunk than I've ever known... But, as DIY rebuilders/skilled amateurs go, I've got some game. Consider me a human FAQ...

Anyway, I'd call it:

SV Stock
SV resprung and oiled
SV resprung with cartridge emulators
GSXR stock (assuming you're within the right working weight range)
GSXR resprung and revalved
SV with Traxxion AK-20
GSXR with Traxxion AK-20

In terms of pure quality, at least. When you take value for money into it, it's a lot more complicated, that's why I end up thinking the GSXR front is one of the best options. It's not difficult to do, if you know how to do it... If you can work a spanner you can do it, pretty much. And it does give very good results. But the real killer edge is just price, since SV front end parts are worth a fair bit- if you can do the work yourself and you buy and sell carefully it can work out free.

[mrwolf]

thanks, I think I'll go for the SV with Traxxion AK-20

;)

[northwind]

Never heard a word of bad about the AK setup... Well, apart from the cost ;) Also, you're left with stock brakes of course, so you might want to look at that. Better forks do improve your braking regardless though...

[mrwolf]

for the brake, except changing the brake line for an stainless steel brake line, do you suggest to change the master cylinder, brake pad and disk?

or just the new brake line will do the job?

[northwind]

Brake lines make hardly any difference unless the old ones are damaged... Im not sure what works well with standard calipers really, I never spent much time on them. You can get adaptor plates to fit GSXR 4-pots to SV forks though. Then, there's nothing drastically wrong with standard calipers, I'm just trying to see it from your perspective with a budget and a willingness to make an SV that's above and beyond.

[gettin2dizzy]

There the first lowers i've liked! you got any other pictures of them?

[mrwolf]

thanks, it's from poly26.com

http://www.poly26.com/produits/photos/BASSV03.jpg

http://clg.homeunix.com:8081/images/perso/difference.jpg

[northwind]

From the company that brought you this:

http://www.poly26.com/produits/photos/5315.jpg

Ladies and gentlemen, let's hear it for the French! :) For UK shoppers, you can get Poly 26 stuff from Twinshack now, so you don't need to learn French any more.

[gixxer1300r]

reminds me of a old Norton race bike a friend had in his barn about 20 years ago. Very cool and classic looking

[northwind]

I love it... Someone took it further and made a minitwin racer up in the same style (with, I think, the half-faired version, though I could well be wrong) right down to having fake twin shocks. There's photoshops on the Poly26 website with wire wheels etc too.

[chunkytfg]

I love it... Someone took it further and made a minitwin racer up in the same style (with, I think, the half-faired version, though I could well be wrong) right down to having fake twin shocks. There's photoshops on the Poly26 website with wire wheels etc too.

This one?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/chunky666/Bike.jpg

[northwind]

That's the feller... If memory serves it won at elast one race as well, am I losing it?

[chunkytfg]

That's the feller... If memory serves it won at elast one race as well, am I losing it?

no idea?

I just keep a pic of it on my photobucket account to show people who think they know alot about bikes as it has most of em stumped about what it is