bmc race vs race rs

[01 sv650s]

how do you tell the difference between the bmc race and the race rs filter. does the race have a snorkel or not?

[01 sv650s]

also do you have to oil bmc filters?

[svrash]

the race RS has no whole to speak off as theres no top to put a hole in, its completly open 8)

and yes you have to oil the filter after cleaning them :wink:

[01 sv650s]

and the race has a snorkel?

[svrash]

no just a hole similer to the K&N IIRC :?

[sinbad]

SVRash, that's the nicest looking curvy SV I've seen. Beautiful job :)

[svrash]

SVRash, that's the nicest looking curvy SV I've seen. Beautiful job :)
Thanks, it looks worse up close, the black was a bodge to cover up scars and scratches

[01 sv650s]

is this a bmc race rs filter?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250053026440&rd=1&rd=1

[northwind]

Certainly is. I'd be inclined to buy new, since you never know what's been done to that one, but it seems a decent price.

[01 sv650s]

i bought just the filter for £30 delivered. he says there is no damage to the filter. if i give the filter a good clean when i get it and hopefully it willl be fine.

[01 sv650s]

what mods do u have and what jets do you run northy?

[northwind]

Eh, from the front to the back as it were... Chewy's tank spacers, BMC Race RS filter, Renegade intake trumpets out of their airkit, then the cam swap with K3 intakes and carbed intakes on the exhaust side (which shouldn't really affect jetting, since it shifts more mix, it doesn't change what goes in and out... But you never know) and then a full WRP race system with a shortened end can. At the moment it has Dynojet 180 mains in, which is unreasonably big but dynos just fine- I was pretty surprised, I thought it'd top out at 170. 180 is, I gather, one step up on stock for a Firestorm! The Rene trumpets may or may not make a difference, I really don't know.

Good for approximately 80bhp at the rear wheel, though tbh I'd say if it's on either side it'd be beneath ;) Still to run it with the right jets, and with a really good setup otherwise, it made 77.5 last time out but that was a sloppy run with undersized mains. TBH, the best way to get a higher poewr figure with a dynojet dyno is to come back on a colder day, so we'll see what happens in the new year when I get back there.

Is it worth it? Well, it's been about £35 and maybe one and a half hours per horsepower, I reckon. So probably not :) I did it all pretty cheap, and did the work myself (just a couple of test dyno runs after I'd set it up by bum dyno) so it was cheap but time consuming. Though it's not all about peak power, it doesn't fall off much after peak and it gets there sooner so the "usable maximum power", if you like, is far better than stock. More mids as well, so for sheer rideability it's good. But messing with bikes isn't just about the results, if you ask me. The smart thing to do is to leave it exactly as it came out of the crate, but I like messing with things. [/i]

[Skip]

180 is, I gather, one step up on stock for a Firestorm!
I bet thats great for fuel economy! :lol:

[TSM]

no just a hole similer to the K&N IIRC :?

It actualy looked smaller to me on the BMC Race vs K&N.

[northwind]

180 is, I gather, one step up on stock for a Firestorm!
I bet thats great for fuel economy! :lol:

It's actually not bad at all... It's got a mean thirst on fast road work and trackdays, mind, but economy's all about how you use it. Plus, having more power at 5000rpm than you have at 6 means I'm often a gear lower than everyone else :)

[01 sv650s]

what is so bad about pod filters? why does no-one use them

[northwind]

They're a sod to set up, for one ;) Plus to get best results you need to muck about with the floats and the air jets. You also need to do something about the crank breathers, not hard but it's extra hassle. Some people say they're problematic in the wet, which doesn't really seem to be borne out, but they definately can be sensitive to wind.

The standard logic is that a bike needs a big airbox to make good torque. But the other possibility, is that inefficient pods are still better than a very efficient airbox, since by brute force they do more than a good airbox does by finesse.

I've not tried it... I will, I'm sure, but not just yet.

[01 sv650s]

so if a bike had injectors, lamda sensors and airflow meters then the bike would set its self up so pods would work well but on a carbed bike panel/box filters are best?

[northwind]

Well, not best... It's all just sliding scales, you have cost, work, results and usability, and it's all about striking the right balance. Which imo is LEAVE IT ALONE! until you add in the 5th scale, smug satisfaction at a job well done.

[01 sv650s]

i got my bmc race rs filter today - the finish on it is ****, are all bmc filers the same?

also - is the renagade air kit any good

[northwind]

I had a Renegade airkit... One of the worse purchases I've made for the bike. The filter's poorly designed, it sticks above the airbox so that if you don't use tank spacers, there's restriction, but the kit doesn't come with the spacers. Even with that fixed, it doesn't flow as well as the BMC.

You do get a set of airbox trumpets, which are very rare to find for the SV- I've left mine in, but I'm unsure as to what difference they're making. Not a great deal I suspect, at least not with the rest of the airkit fitted- there's no midrange boost as you'd expect, I suspect they compensate for a midrange loss rather than giving a gain... But I do wonder what they do for a properly jetted bike with a system and filter. I'll find out some day. Other than that, all you get is a drill bit and 2 jets.

Also, the instructions included with mine were awful, a bad photocopy of a photograph and half a page of poor directions. Now, I will say that when I came to fit it, I contacted the company and spoke to Jorge, and he was excellent over the phone- very helpful, and apologetic about the instruction sheet... Gave very good, simple instructions too. So from that point of view I wouldn't hear a bad word against the company, couldn't have been better.

But in terms of value for money, it gives worse results than a K&N and a pair of jets, and costs twice as much.

Dyno run here:
http://www.renegade-products.com/renegadeusa/messages/17/1006.jpg
But remember that's crank not rear wheel.

I was very disappointed... The K3 airkit is a totally different product, and rather cool, but this one's just a failure if you ask me. If I was Jorge I'd drop it entirely, since it doesn't measure up to their usual standards- if I'd been thinking of getting one of their systems, I wouldn't after getting this. It happens that I know they're a great company, and they just happen to have a bad product here, but not everyone would come to that conclusion. But then, Renegade have always been a bit like that, the standard of the website tells you that there's some strange business decisions going on.

[Razor]

i got my bmc race rs filter today - the finish on it is sh*t, are all bmc filers the same?

also - is the renagade air kit any good

Kinda looks like a used condom don't it?

I thought the airkit was just a pair of jets, a set of velocity stacks and a piper cross type panel filter. Which seems it was.

I had a BMC air filter, but I flogged it as a cut out OE filter works just as well. I haven't spent enough time setting up my jetting for the "de-snorkeled" filter but once my full system arrives I'll maybe fiddle with jets again.

[northwind]

The rubbery finish? It works well... Why would you want a good looking filter, it'll only cost more money :)

Race RS is just slightly better than a desnorkelled standard filter, btw. Not much, not worth £50 more anyway :)

[Razor]

Race RS is just slightly better than a desnorkelled standard filter, btw. Not much, not worth £50 more anyway :)

I was gonna go with DJ155 jets, for the snorkel and full system. The next size up I've got is 165 then 175. So might have the means(and the mains) to get it to run a bit meatier. :wink:

[northwind]

180DJs in mine now :roll: One of the reasons I've not gone to pods, it's taken that long to trial-and-error my way to a setting that doesn't make the dyno man laugh, I don't really relish the idea of doing it again!

[01 sv650s]

The rubbery finish? It works well... Why would you want a good looking filter, it'll only cost more money :)

Race RS is just slightly better than a desnorkelled standard filter, btw. Not much, not worth £50 more anyway :)

i meant where it has been moulded, there are small holes in the rubber. i would not be very happy if i shelled out the full £60 for it.

[01 sv650s]

i now have the choice between the bmc & the k&n. am i likley to get problems with the bmc? which ever i get fitted i will have it installed with a stage 1&3 dynojet kit set up on the dyno. i am not really interested in gaining alot more power as my bike is supposed to be 33bhp and it feels quick enough already. is it worth getting dynojet and filter fitted?

[TSM]

I have a full system and BMC Race (not RS) and DJ150's, with the stock opening on the BMC the bike would hesitate at 5-6k when you opened the throttle, i cut the filter a little and the hesitation had gone. So its still a little restrictive possably. I need to increase the jet size though and see where it goes.

[northwind]

Wee bubbles in the red rubber stuff? The BMC's built for function only, cosmetic flaws just aren't an issue for a performance part like that really...

i now have the choice between the bmc & the k&n. am i likley to get problems with the bmc? which ever i get fitted i will have it installed with a stage 1&3 dynojet kit set up on the dyno. i am not really interested in gaining alot more power as my bike is supposed to be 33bhp and it feels quick enough already. is it worth getting dynojet and filter fitted?

Frankly, if you're not looking for power it's probably not worth either :) BMC's slightly harder to set up as it's further from stock. Also, you may well end up falling in the big gap in jet sized that the stage 1&3 kit has. TBH if you're doing it for throttle response, you're going to want to get it dynoed, you need it spot on to get that really nice feel. You can get pretty good results by butt dyno, but you need either experience, patience or luck to get ideal results.

[01 sv650s]

i am not saying the filter looks bad it just looks like it was built by a 5 year old. would it be easier to install the k&n. if i put in the bmc would it drink fuel. you say experiance, patience or luck. surly if i got every thing intalled on the dyno then it would be fine?

[northwind]

Oh aye, if you get it done on a dyno then it's totally different, they have the hardware and should have the skill. K&N might be slightly quicker to set up since it's a smaller change- the K&N, stock, they can adjust from the current settings, the Race RS they'd really need to change a lot more.

My MPG when commuting is much the same as anyone else... Mine'll drink like Shane McGowan when pushed harder, but that only happens when I want it to. Since I make more power at lower revs, I don't need the high revs so much, so it all more or less balances out. Bear in mind I've got other work done though, can't really speak for just rejetting etc since I reckon there's better things to spend your money on, like the cam swap.

[Enchanter]

is this a bmc race rs filter?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250053026440&rd=1&rd=1

But BMC Race filter look like that to?? *confused* Whats the different with BMC Race filter and BMC RS Race filter?

When you look at www.bmcairfilters.com there is two kind of filters, one that is stock and is a "replacement filter" and one who is a race filter. The race filter looks like a desnorkled stock filter .. right ?

[TSM]

BMC dont directly sell the Race RS filter, it looks like a Race RS with the opening at the top open to the edge of the filter for maximum air flow.

[Enchanter]

BMC dont directly sell the Race RS filter, it looks like a Race RS with the opening at the top open to the edge of the filter for maximum air flow.

You mean that Race RS and Race filters look the same? :roll:

[TSM]

BMC dont directly sell the Race RS filter, it looks like a Race RS with the opening at the top open to the edge of the filter for maximum air flow.

You mean that Race RS and Race filters look the same? :roll:

Nop, they look diffrent, the Race is similer to the stock except it does not have the snorkle in the middle, the Race RS has a large oval opening on the top instead.

[northwind]

You mean that Race RS and Race filters look the same? :roll:

AS TSM says, the Race RS looks like that picture. The Race doesn't.

[Enchanter]

BMC dont directly sell the Race RS filter, it looks like a Race RS with the opening at the top open to the edge of the filter for maximum air flow.

You mean that Race RS and Race filters look the same? :roll:

Nop, they look diffrent, the Race is similer to the stock except it does not have the snorkle in the middle, the Race RS has a large oval opening on the top instead.

Thanks for your answer!

So is a Bmc race filter a good choice? I don´t have to drill holes in the carbs for it to work properly?
Maybe a better choice than desnorkle a stock filter?

I´m thinking about getting a full akra system and maybe the cam swap but its really hard to decide what kind of filter to choice..

I have search on this great site and found lots to read but it hard to find what kind of filter who does the job best!

I can also say that i find the low and mid rpm range most important, i really don´t spend so much time up around the rev limit :)

Also i don´t find it so good to have so big jets on the bike..

Would be very glad if i could get some help with that, i know because i have read lots of threads that it is guys here who have lots of knowledge about engine mods!

[TSM]

I have a full micron/BMC Race/150DJ. I found that when i had moved from a de-snorkled K&N to the BMC Race, the bike ran worse and hesitated on acceleration, so i cut back the BMC Race so it was halfway towards looking like a BMC Race RS and the hesitation disapeared.

[Enchanter]

I have a full micron/BMC Race/150DJ. I found that when i had moved from a de-snorkled K&N to the BMC Race, the bike ran worse and hesitated on acceleration, so i cut back the BMC Race so it was halfway towards looking like a BMC Race RS and the hesitation disapeared.

Were that because you had to rich setting for that filter? If you went down to a smaller jet it would have got better?

[TSM]

I have a full micron/BMC Race/150DJ. I found that when i had moved from a de-snorkled K&N to the BMC Race, the bike ran worse and hesitated on acceleration, so i cut back the BMC Race so it was halfway towards looking like a BMC Race RS and the hesitation disapeared.

Were that because you had to rich setting for that filter? If you went down to a smaller jet it would have got better?

Well the K&N worked fine, but the BMC Race as stock looked like the inlet was smaller than my K&N. It would be of course that the K&N was cut open a little more than what it should have been at stock. I may still open the BMC a little more and put larger jets in.

[Enchanter]

I have a full micron/BMC Race/150DJ. I found that when i had moved from a de-snorkled K&N to the BMC Race, the bike ran worse and hesitated on acceleration, so i cut back the BMC Race so it was halfway towards looking like a BMC Race RS and the hesitation disapeared.

Were that because you had to rich setting for that filter? If you went down to a smaller jet it would have got better?

Well the K&N worked fine, but the BMC Race as stock looked like the inlet was smaller than my K&N. It would be of course that the K&N was cut open a little more than what it should have been at stock. I may still open the BMC a little more and put larger jets in.

Thanks! So what do you recommend is a BMC race filter "better" then a desnorkled stock filter? Must i drill "holes" in my carbs for it to work properly or have a just to change some jets ?

[TSM]

I have a full micron/BMC Race/150DJ. I found that when i had moved from a de-snorkled K&N to the BMC Race, the bike ran worse and hesitated on acceleration, so i cut back the BMC Race so it was halfway towards looking like a BMC Race RS and the hesitation disapeared.

Were that because you had to rich setting for that filter? If you went down to a smaller jet it would have got better?

Well the K&N worked fine, but the BMC Race as stock looked like the inlet was smaller than my K&N. It would be of course that the K&N was cut open a little more than what it should have been at stock. I may still open the BMC a little more and put larger jets in.

Thanks! So what do you recommend is a BMC race filter "better" then a desnorkled stock filter? Must i drill "holes" in my carbs for it to work properly or have a just to change some jets ?

BMC Race and K&N are ment to be similer, so either one is fine and wont need major work. Try at least DJ150 then get it dynod. I am not sure about the drilling of the slides, i have not done it yet.

[Enchanter]

BMC Race and K&N are ment to be similer, so either one is fine and wont need major work. Try at least DJ150 then get it dynod. I am not sure about the drilling of the slides, i have not done it yet.

I will not use DJ stuff only OEM jets, is that like 152.5 maybe? :)

[TSM]

BMC Race and K&N are ment to be similer, so either one is fine and wont need major work. Try at least DJ150 then get it dynod. I am not sure about the drilling of the slides, i have not done it yet.

I will not use DJ stuff only OEM jets, is that like 152.5 maybe? :)

So you are getting the Mikuni jets, then i think SVrash knows better on their numbering.

[Enchanter]

BMC Race and K&N are ment to be similer, so either one is fine and wont need major work. Try at least DJ150 then get it dynod. I am not sure about the drilling of the slides, i have not done it yet.

I will not use DJ stuff only OEM jets, is that like 152.5 maybe? :)

So you are getting the Mikuni jets, then i think SVrash knows better on their numbering.

Okay but that is a later problem, i will have a tuner dyno it so i will not change the jets myself :)

But was it the advantage of the RS filter over the RACE kind? Is it so much better to have that big hole that requires bigger jets ..

[northwind]

If you're going to rejet, it makes no sense to settle for lower power just because it's closer to stock. If you don't want to rejet, use a stock filter or BMC Road. If you want to rejet, why settle for the Race or K&N? Race RS flows more air, gives more power.

[Enchanter]

If you're going to rejet, it makes no sense to settle for lower power just because it's closer to stock. If you don't want to rejet, use a stock filter or BMC Road. If you want to rejet, why settle for the Race or K&N? Race RS flows more air, gives more power.

But can´t the carbs get to much air? I have heard that the carbs don't work so well if they get to much air. Have you drilled the slides for them to work properly ?

[northwind]

I drilled the slides back when I had the Renegade airkit, which flowed about as much air as a K&N. It's not a disadvantage, it's just something you do to take full advantage of the airflow you have.