Proposal for Daylight Running Lights on ALL vehicles.

[independentphoto]

Here's an interesting article on how "Europe" wants to take away the little advantage we might have in respect of catching the eyes of motorists etc.


http://www.mag-uk.org/content/campaigns/2006/drl/magdrl.htm

Scary stuff!

Garry :shock:

[Ceri JC]

A rather stupid idea: No safety benefit (less than none for us), environmentally unfriendly (more energy used), expensive (more times more bulbs will be used up per year).

Still, we get the government we vote for, eh? Oh, wait, we didn't vote for them... :roll:

[northwind]

environmentally unfriendly (more energy used)

Not really... Cars and bikes generate electricity all the time, just that a lot of it is wasted. As for wasted bulbs, bulb life is mainly erestricted by power cycling and accident damage, they rarely fail from use. MTF on a Silverstar is something nuts like 100000 hours.

[Baph]

I think what Ceri JC meant, was more light pollution :P

Also, if all cars have lights on all the time, it means bikes stand out from the crowd less. Hmm.

[Stu]

If they got the type of DLR light right it would be good.
I like cars with sidelights on and bikes with headlights.
Helps me distinguish moving cars from parked ones for one thing.
And with LED's coming in no failure or electricity consumption problems.

[Zopilote]

Here in Sweden it is required to have lights on even daytime on all motor driven vehicles (not bicycles). Actually i have never been thinking of the fact that motorcycles would be more visible if they were the only vehicles with lights on during daytime, but you may have a point there... On the other hand i find it quite hard to see a car with no lights on, maybe because you expect the headlights to be on as soon as the engine is started.
I normalyy drive with full beam on when outside city limits. Better annoy some people than not be seen by others.

[chazzyb]

environmentally unfriendly (more energy used)

Not really... Cars and bikes generate electricity all the time, just that a lot of it is wasted. As for wasted bulbs, bulb life is mainly erestricted by power cycling and accident damage, they rarely fail from use. MTF on a Silverstar is something nuts like 100000 hours.

I think a modern alternator creates a greater load on the engine the more power it's having to generate. I suspect rather than just sinking excess power when not required, the regulator can restrict the power output to match demand. That's certainly possible where there's an electro-magnet rather than a permanent magnet generating the field. Crikey, the DC dynamo on my old AJS uses that principle.

[netsurfer]

Here in Sweden it is required to have lights on even daytime on all motor driven vehicles

Considering how far North you are I think thats probably a good idea. How many hours daylight do you have around 21st Dec? (shortest day)

Pete

[Zopilote]

This time of the year: From 8 am to 3.30 pm, but on the other hand, midlle of summer it never gets real dark :D

[Dicky Ticker]

Two words--------------------BAD IDEA





[New motorbikes nearly all have AH an this would only merge into a sea of lights if all vehicles ran with headlights on]

[Ping]

Ok, suppose we put a website or even an extra page here (to pull in extra votes) and a petition forward explaining how daytime lights on for us (and no-one else) is a safety factor for us? We can moan all we want, but at least we can try to make a stand...?

[on yer bike]

There was talk of this in france last year, and i think there was also a bike rally in protest of it with 300ish bikes turning up, but thats the last i heard... but that was in MCN, so it could be ********

[Ping]

So we do something positive here?

Dunno, this would need the support of admin because the org would be in the frontline fire.

[wheelnut]

There was talk of this in france last year, and i think there was also a bike rally in protest of it with 300ish bikes turning up, but thats the last i heard... but that was in MCN, so it could be ********

There are parts of France where this is already in force. The section down from Bordeaux and Irun through the Foret des Landes is one section, there are more

[Stu]

Two words--------------------BAD IDEA





[New motorbikes nearly all have AH an this would only merge into a sea of lights if all vehicles ran with headlights on]
Well if the org is going to make a stand Ping it had better get its facts straight.
IIRC there is no proposal for every car to have headlights on permanently but to have DLR lights on.
IMO that would still give an advantage to Motorbikes and improve the safety of cars, so if it is done right I would support the proposal.

[on yer bike]

In my opinion its a bad idea, simple reason, if lights are always on, people get used to them. the idea for bikes was so that they could stand out, no more "sorry mate i didn't see you", but if everyone has lights on, you don't stand out anymore, then drivers not looking out for you, wont notice you because of your lights, bang, crash, bye bye bike.

[Stu]

My point is, if they maintain a difference between bikes with headlights on and cars with lesser DRLs it would be good.

[northwind]

I'm not sure about that at all... Maybe for bikers, but you can't oppose a general safety measure that could help the other 99/100 vehicles on the road on the grounds that it might make things slightly worse for the other 1/100.

I think Stu's right... As described, the new law doesnt' actually massively reduce our visibility, but it makes cars easier to see. I reckon that balances out, or could even work out beneficial. WE're all making assumptions here, but there's a lot of actual statistical analysis out there on the impact of daytime lighting etc which we don't seem to be talking about at all. Sometimes you have to take a step back. Maybe the reason it looks stupid to you is that you don't know the facts that makes it make sense.

[oldjack]

Stupid idea but inevitable. When I started driving (early 70s !!), nobody used headlights where there was street lighting, only sidelights - headlights were only for seeing the road ahead in the absence of streetlights - this was in the highway code. Everyone was happy.

As soon as a small but large enough percentage of (IMO selfish) drivers started using headlights with streetlights it became acceptable, perhaps because it coincided with increased motorway usage, or heavier traffic generally.

Dave Lee Travis started a campaign on radio 1 to get everyone to use headlights everywhere (mid 70s), so anyone on sidelights was forced to use headlights to be seen (Radio 1 was a big influence then). I remember thinking No ! No ! No ! - this is a slippery slope ! Now at dusk we are met with a wall of light, this generation of drivers thinks the solution is to use even brighter lights to allow them (selfishly ?) to be seen. Could go on for ever. Funny how many situations in life are spoiled for the majority by the selfish actions of a small minority ! rant....rant....etc.

I personally think the solution is for everyone (except bikes !) to revert to sidelights, but that isn't going to happen.

The same situation is now happening with daylight use of lights. When I first rode a bike (late 70s) not many bikers used their headlights in daylight, I often got told "you've got your lights on mate", now I'd be a fool not to. This proposal is just a natural legalised enforcement of what's already happening.

This potted history of the headlights situation is as I remember it, others may remember it differently.

[Sid Squid]

[I think a modern alternator creates a greater load on the engine the more power it's having to generate. I suspect rather than just sinking excess power when not required, the regulator can restrict the power output to match demand. That's certainly possible where there's an electro-magnet rather than a permanent magnet generating the field. Crikey, the DC dynamo on my old AJS uses that principle.

Not any more, nowadays better and more resilient electronics, (Suzuki reg-recs aside obviously :lol: ), allow us neat, light and very reliable permanent magnet alternators, output is constant, excess charge is dumped. The last Jap bike I can think of with a crank mounted alternator and variable output was a very neat bit of Kwak engineering, all the coils, including the field, mounted on a stator, and the whole was neatly clearanced such that the flux could jump the gap and the rotor required no brushes. Very neat and efficient but by today's standards rather big and heavy, the newer rare earth magnets we have now allow very small and light devices with no wearing parts.

[mpaton2006]

The UK is the only EU member state to have disagreed with this proposed piece of legislation. Stephen Ladyman has already been through the motions with Brussels, but it looks like it is going to be ratified anyway due to the overwhelming majority in favour.

[Stu]

The UK is the only EU member state to have disagreed with this proposed piece of legislation. Stephen Ladyman has already been through the motions with Brussels, but it looks like it is going to be ratified anyway due to the overwhelming majority in favour.
Does that mean it will be brought in in UK or we will opt out?

[Jelster]

I can't see a problem with this at all (or am I missing something ?)

At least this way, that bloke behind you in the rain will have to have his lights on so you will be able to see hime. For me that's a good thing. In daytime when it's bright and if I'm filtering I'll often be on main beam to make sure people see me coming, it's not going to dazzle them during daylight, but I can still stand out..

.

[oldjack]

Jelster, you won't be able to see that bloke behind you in the rain against the glare of everybody elses lights, totally unnecessary if you ask me, now everybody will be clamouring for more powerful lights so they can stand out against the background glare, remember this is headlights in daylight.[/url]

[Stu]

remember this is headlights in daylight.[/url]

Says who?

[TSM]

environmentally unfriendly (more energy used)

Not really... Cars and bikes generate electricity all the time, just that a lot of it is wasted. As for wasted bulbs, bulb life is mainly erestricted by power cycling and accident damage, they rarely fail from use. MTF on a Silverstar is something nuts like 100000 hours.

Yep ive had mine in since feb last year and they are still the same ones after my crashes, weird.

[oldjack]

Oops, should've read the original post properly! It's not headlights, as stu so rightly pointed out !