View Full Version : She won't start! Help!
So I'm wending my merry way home from work this evening when I notice an unusual noise from the bike when pulling away. Sort of a tapping/flapping noise that seems to be coming from the rear tyre. Stopped the bike to check it out and was rolling the bike back and forward to check both tyres (nothing there to the naked eye) when I knocked it off the side stand and it started to fall :oops:
Luckily I am part gorilla, so managed to heave it upright from the awkward position I found myself in. As I was doing so the engine was revving really high, so I switched it off before going for the final push.
Got it back upright and went to start her up again; nada. The red warning light and oil pressure indicator came on , and all that happens when I push the switch is that my lights dim. Manage to push start it, all is going well, bloody noise starts up again. "Aha!" thinks me, being a clever sort :roll: : I'll wait until I'm at the top of a hill, check the if it's a tight spot on the chain, and then if it won't start again I'll push it down the hill and ride it home. It's not the chain. It now won't start even when rolling at up to 20mph...
So now I'm no closer to finding out what the noise is, and I have a bike that won't start :cry:. Any suggestions?
BTW, it's a k5
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 09:55 PM
Have you knocked the kill switch ?
Tip Over Sensor come loose? But that should give you an FI indicator on the LCD.
Dan
No, kill switch is first thing I checked. What's the tip-over sensor, and is there a way to reset it?
21QUEST
18-12-06, 10:05 PM
Connector for the clutch switch unplugged?
Cheers
Ben
Only indicator is the oil pressure indicator. Loads of oil in there, tho! Maybe an oil pump/pressure sensor issue? Would that stop the ECU from allowing the bike to start maybe?
Connector for the clutch switch unplugged?
Cheers
Ben
As far as I know I checked every connection I could find. Whereabouts is that one? Lights are still dimming when I hit the switch, so it's registering that something's happening
netsurfer
18-12-06, 10:16 PM
Not sure if the switch is in the same place on the K5 - on my K1 its just in front of the clutch lever - you cant miss the pair of wires going onto it. Easiest way to rule it out, try starting with the clutch out (in neutral of course) if the lights dont dim then the switch is more than likely OK
Lights dimming would to me indicate that power is getting to the starter motor.. after the bike being dropped, the 1st thing I would think would be engine oil in one or both cylinders. However since the bike was running after it was dropped then you could almost rule that out (could try taking plugs out and see)
And as I've stressed on here before... attempting to turn the engine over with oil in one or both cylinders could lead to all sorts of problems like bent con-rod or head gasket probs.
Pete
Clutch switch would be top of my list, had the same thing happen to me :oops: well similar anyways :P
netsurfer
18-12-06, 10:24 PM
Clutch switch would be top of my list, had the same thing happen to me :oops: well similar anyways :P
Doubtful, if the lights are dimming
Just my £0.02
Pete
Easiest way to rule it out, try starting with the clutch out
Sorry, I'm a little confused. It won't start unless the clutch is pulled in anyway.
I've left it outside my local bike shop (coz I wasn't gonna push it straight past just to push it back in the morning!) so I'll try that tomorrow. Any other hints people?
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 10:31 PM
Sorry, I'm a little confused. It won't start unless the clutch is pulled in anyway.
It wont, which side did it go down on maybe the clutch levers a little bent and even with the clutch pulled in its not working the bypass switch properly.
Might be worth having a search for the instructions on how to bypass the clutch switch and then see if it'll start.
No, I didn't actually drop it. It leant over a fair old way but i managed to manhandle it back upright.
Or knocked it into gear trying to get it up?
Does it come up with CHECK on the dash?
Sorry, I'm a little confused. It won't start unless the clutch is pulled in anyway.
It wont, which side did it go down on maybe the clutch levers a little bent and even with the clutch pulled in its not working the bypass switch properly.
Might be worth having a search for the instructions on how to bypass the clutch switch and then see if it'll start.
If the lights are dimming when you press the starter then everything with the starter circuit should be ok, just that the starter is not turning over.
When you try and start the bike, do you hear the starter relay clicking, when you turn on the bike with the Kill switched off, do you hear the injectors priming? Any error codes on the LCD (you will probably have to put it in "dealer mode")? Explain more this noise you herd from the engine before it went all wrong.
Even with the clutch pulled in or out a push start should be enough to turn over the engine bypassing the starter circuit.
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 10:38 PM
Does it come up with CHECK on the dash?
Liz's K5 did this when I dropped it with the motor running, We picked it back up and switched the ignition off I took the key out and then put the key back in and it started fine.
When you turn the ignition on can you hear it whirring as it pressurises the fuel rail before you go to start it ?
No, only thing on the dash is the oil light. it's not an in-gear issue, as I've push started it and had it running (And when it's running the oil light goes out)
When you turn the ignition on can you hear it whirring as it pressurises the fuel rail before you go to start it ?
When you turn the ignition on can you hear it whirring as it pressurises the fuel rail before you go to start it ?
Yep.
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 10:46 PM
Umh... weird...
So with the ignition on with the bike on the sidestand, you've got an oil light, you hear the bike pressurise the fuel rail and you've got a Neutral light, but when you pull the clutch in the lights dim, the starter doesnt turn and the headlights dim.
When you try and start the bike, do you hear the starter relay clicking, YES
when you turn on the bike with the Kill switched off, do you hear the injectors priming? YES Any error codes on the LCD (you will probably have to put it in "dealer mode")? HOW DO I DO THAT? Explain more this noise you herd from the engine before it went all wrong. It kinda sounded like I had something sticky on one of the tyres which was making a noise as I was pulling away.
Even with the clutch pulled in or out a push start should be enough to turn over the engine bypassing the starter circuit.
Thing is it push started first time, then wouldn't do it again.
Umh... weird...
So with the ignition on with the bike on the sidestand, you've got an oil light, you hear the bike pressurise the fuel rail and you've got a Neutral light, but when you pull the clutch in the lights dim, the starter doesnt turn and the headlights dim.
You got it.
netsurfer
18-12-06, 10:52 PM
Sorry, I'm a little confused. It won't start unless the clutch is pulled in anyway.
It wont, which side did it go down on maybe the clutch levers a little bent and even with the clutch pulled in its not working the bypass switch properly.
Might be worth having a search for the instructions on how to bypass the clutch switch and then see if it'll start.
My point was, that if the lights DONT dim with the clutch lever out, and DO with the clutch lever in, then this proves the switch is OK
You heard the starter relay clicking so it is DEFNITLEY not the clutch switch.
Pete
Gotcha. I'll give it a go in t'morning.
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 10:55 PM
Umh... weird...
So with the ignition on with the bike on the sidestand, you've got an oil light, you hear the bike pressurise the fuel rail and you've got a Neutral light, but when you pull the clutch in the lights dim, the starter doesnt turn and the headlights dim.
You got it.
OK IMHO and I'm no expert. I think that when the bike was on its side, the oil has been pumped up the crankcase breathers and into the airbox. Then when you've picked the bike up that oil has run down the airbox and maybe into the throttle bodies or what ever new fangled pointies have instead of carburettors and then down in the cylinders. Causing hydraulic lock which now means that theres to much pressure in the cylinders and the starter motor won't turn the engine over. IMHO this also explains why the bike doensnt run now when you try and bump start it.
Somebody else talked about "Hydraulic Lock" in another post in this thread. I think this is whats happened and I wouldnt try and start it again till you've at least lifted the tank and taken the airfilter out and seen whats lurking about in your airbox. If you can take the plugs out and then turn the bike over and see if it pumps oil out of the plug holes.
Like I said I'm no expert, but I've had similar problems with my SV with oil / petrol in the airbox causes similar issues where I can't start the bike.
HTH
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 10:57 PM
My point was, that if the lights DONT dim with the clutch lever out, and DO with the clutch lever in, then this proves the switch is OK
You heard the starter relay clicking so it is DEFNITLEY not the clutch switch.
Pete
He's right you know :oops:
Umh... weird...
So with the ignition on with the bike on the sidestand, you've got an oil light, you hear the bike pressurise the fuel rail and you've got a Neutral light, but when you pull the clutch in the lights dim, the starter doesnt turn and the headlights dim.
You got it.
OK IMHO and I'm no expert. I think that when the bike was on its side, the oil has been pumped up the crankcase breathers and into the airbox. Then when you've picked the bike up that oil has run down the airbox and maybe into the throttle bodies or what ever new fangled pointies have instead of carburettors and then down in the cylinders. Causing hydraulic lock which now means that theres to much pressure in the cylinders and the starter motor won't turn the engine over. IMHO this also explains why the bike doensnt run now when you try and bump start it.
Somebody else talked about "Hydraulic Lock" in another post in this thread. I think this is whats happened and I wouldnt try and start it again till you've at least lifted the tank and taken the airfilter out and seen whats lurking about in your airbox. If you can take the plugs out and then turn the bike over and see if it pumps oil out of the plug holes.
Like I said I'm no expert, but I've had similar problems with my SV with oil / petrol in the airbox causes similar issues where I can't start the bike.
HTH
Cheers fizz, I'll give that a go tomorrow. If that is what's causing the problem, how do I remedy it?
You heard the starter relay clicking so it is DEFNITLEY not the clutch switch.
Pete
No, the starter relay isn't doing a thing. All that happens when the clutch is in and the button is pushed is that the lights dim. (Sorry, only just noticed this post!)
If you can take the sparks out and make sure the HT leads are nowhere near the holes, then you should be able to turn the engine over on the starter. Any excess oil should get pumped out. I think its unlikley, my bike has never suffered it ever and its been a fair bit on its side and does not have the cut out sensor the pointies have.
You heard the starter relay clicking so it is DEFNITLEY not the clutch switch.
Pete
No, the starter relay isn't doing a thing. All that happens when the clutch is in and the button is pushed is that the lights dim. (Sorry, only just noticed this post!)
You replied to my post saying that it did click when you pressed the starter. It will only click once when you press the starter. If its rapidly clicks it would indicate a low battery.
Yeah, sorry. Just noticed that I'd replied yes to your Q. No noise from the relay when i push the button. How do i put it in dealer mode?
fizzwheel
18-12-06, 11:07 PM
Cheers fizz, I'll give that a go tomorrow. If that is what's causing the problem, how do I remedy it?
OK it it were me :
1. I'd lift the fuel tank up and then take the air fiter out and have a look around in the airbox and see if theres any oil in there. IIRC its normal for there to be a very small amount in there. But if theres a small lake in there then thats not good. Mop it up with some kitchen roll or something like that and get it all dried out. If you can take the airbox off the bike even better.
2. I'd then take the plugs out of both cylinders and then turn the bike over with the starter and see if any oil is pumped out of the spark plug holes.
3. Once your sure you've got it all out. Put the plugs back in and leave the airbox off and see if it will turn over and then. It might run roughly until any remaining that was sat on top of the piston or anywhere else burns off. Have a look and see if anyting blows up the crankcase breather hoses.
4. Pop the airbox back on and then repeat and see if it'll run.
Just to cover me and you. Remember I'm not and should not be referenced as being a "Mechanic" or "Somebody who knows about bikes like Sid Squid or Rictus do". :lol: If your in any doubt then get somebody who does know what they are talking about to have a look at it.
Thanks for all the help fellas. I'm gonna go crash and get up early tomorrow to have a butchers. See you in the morning!
netsurfer
18-12-06, 11:16 PM
Very good idea to put an old rag over the plug holes when doing this, saves making a BIG mess
Pete
Yeah, so it was the clutch switch. :oops:
HOORAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
the sound of a bike starting up without costing oodles of money must be one of the most gratifyimg noises I've ever heard!
I owe all of you a beer,:drink: a coffee, :shaking2: or some kind of sexual favour! :smt117 (I can't think what else that emoticon could mean...)
Thanks guys, it's a learning curve. Everytime something goes wrong I get a bit better at understanding my bike thanks to you guys. You're like the father i never had (Sniff...)
Jaime
fizzwheel
19-12-06, 09:02 AM
the sound of a bike starting up without costing oodles of money must be one of the most gratifyimg noises I've ever heard!
Its the best noise ever. Thats good nice and simple glad you've got it sorted 8)
After just typing up a whole load of things to check, it seems you've fixed it. Congrats anyway ;)
How do i put it in dealer mode?
There's a writeup here (http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=10245&highlight=dealer+mode) (TRE mode thread). On my K6, the connector is under the main seat (not pillion). As you would be sitting on the bike, it's on the left, behind the battery area. Small white connector with a black cap on it. The error codes are listed somewhere on the forum, and they're on svrider.com as well. Let me know if you can't find those.
Dealer mode will almost certainly tell you what's going on, but you need to be in dealer mode when any error is present. It doesn't have any memory of what's happened on the last ride.
I'd put money on it that once started, you bounced it off the rev limiter a bit, right? :D
Maybe a little bit, yes :oops: :D :D :D
I'll just have to check if the weird noise when pulling away comes back now!
After just typing up a whole load of things to check, it seems you've fixed it. Congrats anyway ;)
You guys really are above and beyond. Cheers fellas.
After just typing up a whole load of things to check, it seems you've fixed it. Congrats anyway ;)
You guys really are above and beyond. Cheers fellas.
One day you have a problem, another day I'll have a problem. T'is just the way the world works :)
:D :D :D THAT"S WHY A MARRIED AN ENGINEER :wink: :wink: :wink:
Peter Henry
19-12-06, 11:33 AM
Pigbunk..Why not indicate how it was that you returned to looking at the clutch switch again after all of your pondering? That might help out other peeps if they experience a similar problem. :thumbsup:
I left the bike overnight outside my local bike shop (coz it's on the way home) When checking the bike over last night I didn't check the clutch switch 'coz I didn't know it existed. In the light of day this morning I decided i'd have a look at all the suggestions from this thread before giving up and handing my keys and a huge wad of cash to Colin Collins. Most simple thing to look at was the clutch switch, and lo and behold it wasn't attached. Plugged it in, fired it up and it went 'Broom!!!"
The single best sound in the world!
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