View Full Version : Activ8, product that will save your engine.
DanAbnormal
15-01-07, 10:24 AM
Did anyone attend this show (or is going to?)
Luckily as my mate owns a training school I got a free ticket to go along. It was my first trade show so we had quite a bit of work to do as my mate has tasked me with helping set up his retail side of things. So we struck a few pretty good deals so that we can sell kit to students. The way I see it is that when a customer phones him to book a course, 9 times out of 10 they have never ridden a motorcycle/scooter before (legally) so in theory would not have any kit at all. So, I suggested that he should capitalise on this and be the one that offers them a basic package of gear including helmet, gloves, trousers and a jacket for a bargain price sold separately or together. All basic kit but at least it's a start. Anyhoo, back to the show. There were quite a few scantily clad females walking the floor which was quite nice but there was one product that really stood out. It is called Activ8 and it pretty much stops metal to metal wear and tear by a claimed 90%. I didn't believe it until I did saw (and took part in) the demo. Basically you had a rotating metal wheel and a bar that you press down on it which had a torque meter attached. The wheel has a little tray underneath the wheel that immerses the wheel almost toally in the oil. He had many brands of oil all in new bottles so he cracked open some Castrol semi R4 9as it's what I use) and filled the little sump up. Then I had to press the bar down until I could stop the wheel from turning, this happened at about 40 er thingies (nm?). He then dropped a small amount of the Activ8 product into the oil and I again had to stop the wheel from turning. After I got to 200nm the wheel was still spinning freely and I had a sore arm!). He then emptied the oil clean everything and wiped it all dry and asked me to do it again.................again I could not stop the wheel turning! Even if your engine lost ALL it's oil this product would get you home! Simply stunning. So, I am starting some test on my own bike and will let you know how I get on. If it works as it should do I will be offering it to you at avery discounted price. 1ltr of this stuff retails at £79.99 but only 125ml is needed for either 25'000miles or 5 oil changes (whichever comes first). It works on anything where there is metal to metal friction where you don't want it. Will come back with more info soon!
http://www.activ8.uk.com/
Interesting, sounds pretty good, keep us updated and give us a drop next time I see ya ;)
http://simplan.co.uk/onlinestore/index.asp
Put this in an engine with a wet clutch? Hmm, maybe not a good idea.
.
Ceri JC
15-01-07, 10:29 AM
Sounds impressive, I take it this wouldn't affect the friction plates in the clutch and cause clutch slip?
EDIT: Jonboy beat me to it. :)
DanAbnormal
15-01-07, 10:31 AM
Put this in an engine with a wet clutch? Hmm, maybe not a good idea.
.
Yes, absolotley no issues at all as it does not coat metal. It does not clog filters or cause any harm at all. The proof is in the pudding as they say, I will report all my findings from my own bikes.
Luckypants
15-01-07, 10:32 AM
If this stuff works by 'coating' the metal surfaces with some thing (Teflon?) like Slick 50, I would be wary of using it in bike engines. The coating that these things lay down may only be a few microns thick, but is enough to close up some of the small oil ways in an engine, leading to oil starvation of some components and resulting breakdown.
What is the effect of this super slippy stuff on the clutch? Make that slippy too?
Willing to proved wrong, proof not heresay required.
DanAbnormal
15-01-07, 10:36 AM
It contains no solids or PTFE (telfon) so this problem is resolved. I literally stood there and watched customer after customer come up and greet the guy pesonally (he was a tiny one man stall), most of them were racing team mechanics or garage owners who swear by it. He gave a reallyy good explanation why is does not affect clutches in a negative way but I cannot remember. I will email them to get some more info.
Cheers,
Dan
SV650Racer
15-01-07, 10:57 AM
Not a good product. My mate ran this after seeing the demo at a show. One month later the engine ran the mains. Something to do with the additive attacking the copper coating on the shells.
No engine tuner will recommend it..i certainly wouldnt after seeing this and chatting with a few engine tuners.
expensive for little or no gain..and maybe very expensive when it goes wrong as above.
Ceri JC
15-01-07, 11:28 AM
Not a good product. My mate ran this after seeing the demo at a show. One month later the engine ran the mains. Something to do with the additive attacking the copper coating on the shells.
No engine tuner will recommend it..i certainly wouldnt after seeing this and chatting with a few engine tuners.
expensive for little or no gain..and maybe very expensive when it goes wrong as above.
Was it a road or race bike? Only reason I ask is I wonder if a racebike had an oil change after every race, it'd get rid of the additive v. quick and without the additive (if the copper coating was removed) it'd lunch itself quickly.
Not a good product. My mate ran this after seeing the demo at a show. One month later the engine ran the mains. Something to do with the additive attacking the copper coating on the shells.
No engine tuner will recommend it..i certainly wouldnt after seeing this and chatting with a few engine tuners.
expensive for little or no gain..and maybe very expensive when it goes wrong as above.
Don't know anything about this product, but yes you do have to be a little wary with some extreme pressure (EP) additives as found in transmission oils attacking copper based alloys (brass/bronze etc).
Having said that most modern engines don't use copper/lead type bearing shells any more, superceded by aluminium/tin etc.
Does it have a sickly sweet smell like EP oil (lots of sulphur)?
Personally I just use a good branded motor oil, Castrol/Mobil/Shell etc, in all my engines, you won't have any wear issues if it's maintained correctly.
Development engines I've been involved with are perfectly serviceable after 150k miles or 1000hrs high speed test bed durability.
Treat it properly while warming up, don't just leave it idling (start, settle for maybe 20-30sec then ride/drive off gently, don't rev high or blip throttle repeatedly until properly warm), change oil+filter regularly and you'll have no problems.
Justy my opinion :roll:
northwind
15-01-07, 11:55 AM
Did a spot of digging about, apparently the problem's around the sulphur content- sulphur's a great lubricant but under some conditions it's corrosive. That's all second hand, mind.
injury_ian
15-01-07, 02:59 PM
Additives :roll:
all boils down to... if it were any good it'd have a suzuki / honda / kawazaki etc badge on it
. or should i say castrol / silkolene etc
DanAbnormal
15-01-07, 03:32 PM
Well.........all I can say is that already I have felt a difference in how my bike runs. Runs a lot smoother, picks up quicker and also gear changes are so much smoother (no usual clunkyness). As for there being clutch problems, clutches on bikes are not metal/metal friction they are metal/mineral (so I've been told) so it doesn't do any damage. All I know is that I will be using it from now on.
Gazza77
15-01-07, 03:44 PM
I wonder why none of the major oil companies use this in their engine oils :?: :?
PsychoCannon
15-01-07, 03:50 PM
At first I thought this was going to be another of those fuel pill things :lol:
Hmm not even going to pretend to know anything about this so I'll stick it out until I do know more ;)
How much is this stuff out of interest.
Just read the testimonials on their website. Apparently Phil Read MBE uses this stuff and quite likes it. Interested to see the results from SV Dan.
I won't get into an argument about whether it does what it says on the tin, but think about the following points:
- As RandyO will testify, a properly maintained SV engine will still be running strong after 120,000 miles +
- The only metal to metal contact in your engine is between the bores and the piston rings (and you really don't want that to be diminished). If anything else touches, then your oil pump has failed.
- Even if the product allows your crank pins to turn in the big end bearings after an oil pressure failure, the bearings will be hammered to death anyway in seconds (they are really very soft).
kwak zzr
15-01-07, 04:56 PM
i used to use slick 50 in my cars years ago, has that stuff disappeared or can you still get it? i must say it is ment to do a great job but i never felt any diff.
Jelster
15-01-07, 04:57 PM
Activ8 ??? Last time I used something called Activ8 it was a killer bait for big carp....
Sorry, I'm not helping am I... However, I must say that the comments from sdusk make a lot of sense (well to me anyway).
.
I have been using a product called ZX1 (http://www.team-zx1.co.uk/) in all my engines (4 strokes, 2 strokes, cars, bikes, everything) for about 5 years now and have really noticed the difference in terms of performance and fuel economy.
DanAbnormal
15-01-07, 06:09 PM
Typical naysayers the lot of you. Oil is ther as a lubricant but even with that lubricant your engine does get worn (just look at the pistons of a working 120'000 mile bike to that of a 2'000 mile bike and you will know what I am talking about.) If this product extends the life of your motorcycle it can only be good.
kwak zzr
15-01-07, 07:10 PM
time will tell sv dan keep us posted.
northwind
15-01-07, 07:12 PM
Typical naysayers the lot of you. Oil is ther as a lubricant but even with that lubricant your engine does get worn (just look at the pistons of a working 120'000 mile bike to that of a 2'000 mile bike and you will know what I am talking about.) If this product extends the life of your motorcycle it can only be good.
Yep, but. If under high pressure and heat you get corrosion of aluminium parts over time, that can only be not good. The demo doesn't replicate the actual working conditions of the product. I'm interested to see what happens, put it that way.
valleyboy
15-01-07, 07:20 PM
You have gotten me interested in all this now, so done a bit of searching...
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=20656
comments towards the bottom of the page in bold seem to back up one or two points made here...
though the product on that page claims to be differnt.. someones pointed out why the oil industries no longer push that type of stuff....
also general consensus on this site is, dont touch it with a barge pole.. use Magnatec instead... :lol:
http://www.bikersweb.co.uk/forum/archive/index.php?t-3365.html
When I read in the Activ8 Technical Test Report the generation of hydrogen chloride above 200C the alarm bells started ringing.
Now where's that barge pole?
Not the stuff to be putting in your modern engine IMO.
DanAbnormal
15-01-07, 10:21 PM
See this is why I should have studied engineering at school. So potentially we could be talking about long term internal corrosion? All I know is that the bike feels much better for what I put in it today. Like you say, does make me wonder why this stuff is not used by everyone and their dog but then there could be other reasons for that too.
valleyboy
15-01-07, 10:33 PM
Oil companies would be out of business sharpish if they started making oil that did its job properly.... :lol:
Ceri JC
16-01-07, 12:01 AM
Yep, but. If under high pressure and heat you get corrosion of aluminium parts over time, that can only be not good. The demo doesn't replicate the actual working conditions of the product. I'm interested to see what happens, put it that way.
Ah, the nimbyism of the bike modifier (Not In My Bike, Yet) :wink:
Interesting.
On one hand, why should this additive do anything my oil isn't doing already?
On the other, engines do wear, even if you maintain hell out of them, and could/would they sell this if it was harmful in any way?
I could believe it being of no real benefit, but I can't see that it would do actual harm, if it corroded something it would be very easy to prove.
Here's hoping it does what it claims to.
ianofbhills
16-01-07, 01:44 AM
I've seen and taken part in the same demonstration and it is very impressive. Certainly got a few sales out of it but i didnt buy any.
This section in one of the links posted by valleyboy is concise and to the point. Yes, chlorinated paraffins are very effective anti-scuff additives but not for an engine in a modern environment.
General Remarks on Chlorinated Additives.
A number of ‘add-on’ additives intended to improve the performance of commercially available automotive lubricants have been marketed in recent years, under such names as ‘Xxtralube ZX-1’, ‘Metol FX-1’, ‘PPL Anti-Friction’ and ‘Activ-8’.All such products share the following characteristics with ‘X-1R Friction Eliminator’:-
1) They all contain chlorinated paraffin ‘exteme pressure’(EP) compounds first used in the 1930s in heavily-loaded industrial gearboxes, and in some automotive transmission applications, mainly hypoid gears.
2) They all corrode copper-based alloys at moderate temperatures, easily exceeded in all engine, and most transmission applications.This problem was recognised in the 1930s, and chlorinated compounds were never used in transmissions with bronze bearings or gears. No responsible manufacturer ever suggested using them in engines where their increasing activity at high temperatures could lead to piston ring corrosion and bore glazing. (For the same reason, modern ‘hypoid’ additives are not used in engines, even though they are much safer than any chlorinated additive.)
3) X-1R Friction Eliminator and its clones are based upon very outdated technology, which was abandoned by responsible lubricant manufacturers for automotive transmission uses in the 1950s. Chlorinated compounds still find applications in metal working, but their use is on the decline because of health and safety considerations.
4) When burnt, chlorinated paraffins produce corrosive hydrochloric acid, and organo-chlorine compounds including the highly poisonous phosgene gas. Apart from these corrosion and health hazards, with petrol engines the deactivation of exhaust catalysts is also a problem.
5) Unfortunately, these additives give spectacular results in simple EP test machines such as the ‘Falex’. As a marketing ploy, a demonstration of this type looks impressive to those not aquainted with the above facts. Also attractive is the low cost of chlorinated compounds, allowing profits of several thousand percent to be made.
Cheers
Simon.
Nothing I can add to that (no additives :oops: )
EEeesh, 1950s? Thanks for posting that embee, I am now enlightened.
DanAbnormal
16-01-07, 09:32 PM
Wish I'd read those links before I put it in my bloody bike. Even if I do an oil change now the stuff will still eb there. Ah, well, I'm sure my engine won't blow up in the next five minutes. :shock:
Wish I'd read those links before I put it in my bloody bike. Even if I do an oil change now the stuff will still eb there. Ah, well, I'm sure my engine won't blow up in the next five minutes. :shock:
I'd just do an oil+filter change ASAP and forget it.
Apart from the ring/bore business, the little end bearings are usually bronze based and do run at the high temperatures likely to promote the corrosion, so don't leave it too long.
Ah thats interesting, thought there had to be a good reason why the big companies didnt use it or produce it.
valleyboy
17-01-07, 11:00 AM
Exactly.. which is why I decided to investigate further... google is your friend... :lol:
Even came across quite a few people who said to use Magnatec car oil... looking at whats written, its had simular effect, except its propper oil...
some of the 'better' effects of the anti friction stuff in those additives may explain my bike as well... it use to have very little engine braking, and revv very freely, but a treatment only lasts 20K miles or so.... and after my mechanics have said my bikes as it should be... I think one of its previous owners may have put that stuff in, and its simply worn off...
Im tempted to try magnatec in my bike now for some reason... :lol: used car oil in the SV, and it never hurt that...
Well Oiled
17-01-07, 12:30 PM
Chlorinated paraffin additives have been touted for ages and are a very effective EP agent, but at the expense of horrendous side effects. They're cheap commodity chemicals being sold with HUGE profit margins by these people.
These chemicals are freely available to lubricant formulators and are dead cheap, so why aren't they in the oil in the first place? Because they'd never get any approvals as they would be disastrous failures in corrosion and deposit tests needed to get the approvals.
Cheers Keith
Chabbychang
17-01-07, 09:29 PM
We've always used custard mix. None of that cheap own brand from Asda, but that posh 'Birds' make.
Doesn't make bike any faster/efficient......but goes with anything :D :D :D
Sorry.......its been a long day....................... :?
Here - here embee !
Use a decent semi synthetic 10-40w and change it with a new filter on a reasonably regular basis and you will not have any wear issues. Modern oils / lubricants are so good these days. :wink:
Typical naysayers the lot of you. Oil is ther as a lubricant but even with that lubricant your engine does get worn (just look at the pistons of a working 120'000 mile bike to that of a 2'000 mile bike and you will know what I am talking about.) If this product extends the life of your motorcycle it can only be good.
Yep, but. If under high pressure and heat you get corrosion of aluminium parts over time, that can only be not good. The demo doesn't replicate the actual working conditions of the product. I'm interested to see what happens, put it that way.
Do any aluminium parts bear against other metals? Aren't cylinders still sleeved and pistons still ringed - no rude comments please :lol:
John
arenalife
18-01-07, 10:19 AM
Cams run directly in the heads don't they?
Cams run directly in the heads don't they?
If it's anything like a normal (car) OHC engine then the cams lift the rockers which depress the valves - all in the head. At no time is there any friction with aluminium parts. I seem to remember something about desmodromic(?) valvegear working differently though.
John
northwind
18-01-07, 12:53 PM
In the SV the cams run on the buckets, which depress the valves, no rockers. But the principle's the same, I think both parts are steel.
In the SV the cams run on the buckets, which depress the valves, no rockers. But the principle's the same, I think both parts are steel.
Damn me! Shows how dated I really am... :oops:
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