View Full Version : What is your GP like?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6276793.stm
What is your GP like? average of £100,000 for doing referral work mostly, does that justify all the tax money we pay going towards them?
Discuss.
Added later ***
Here are some figures which may be of interests to you guys.
UK population: 60 million
NHS: £92 billion cost (£7.5 billion prescribing costs)
Primary care (GP): 261 million consultation
Secondary care: 13 million outpatients and 8.5 million admissions
As we can see, a lot of cost goes towards GP (jack of all trade doctor)/primary care
More alarming figure:
11% of hospital admissions are due to treatment error (why would your GP tell ya that when they eventually refer you to the right people, and in some cases too late)
35,040 people die each year in UK as a result of misprescribing, that's 4 death/hour (official figure from medical journal)
so perceived responsibility from public is one thing, actual incompetence leading to serious illness and death are mostly gone unquestioned.
Don't feel I can say how much they are worth but I do think our local gp's are all fantastic. We have a practice with about 5 or 6 gp's and I don't have a preference which one I or my children see, they are all caring and patient and everything you would hope for in a gp.
I also have to say that the practise seems to work well, dealing with the normal appointments and urgent appointments. I hear many people complain about their gp so I feel very lucky.
And no I don't work for them or have any relatives there ! :)
Every GP at the local surgery is damned good. Very extensive knowledge of pretty much everything, and what they don't know, they have books on the shelf in their office explaining perfectly.
The few times me or the family have been referred, it's always been to a specialist, and always a damned good one.
The surgery itself is great. Phone the receptionist & try to get an appointment, not a problem. I can phone at 9am & walk out of the doctors after the appointment by 10:30am the same day.
I was at this surgery before taking out private medical cover, and I'll still use them as my first port of call, that way, they claim from my policy with a minimum of paperwork, and they get their money without it affecting the rest of their budgeting apparently.
IMO rubberduckofdeath, you're wrong. All of mine are, as I'm sure Tomcat's are as well.
Just another reason the NHS is falling apart.
No doctor I've ever seen has deserved £100k a year!
Do you want to compare what they do to what our wonderful footballers do........ ? :wink:
Just another reason the NHS is falling apart.
No doctor I've ever seen has deserved £100k a year!
Do you want to compare what they do to what our wonderful footballers do........ ? :wink:
No, because I think football's a girls game and I think they're an overpaid bunch of t055ers.... :lol:
well at least we can agree on something here then :wink:
I think GPs mostly do a wonderful job, its just the pay level seem to be a bit excessive for the things they do. you have a cold, you make appointment, and by the time you get seen, you've probably already near recovery. And a lot of people went to see GP to get sick notes etc which takes about 7 mins/patient according to guidelines. GPs prescribe "safer drugs". At some countries, similar roles are only for junior doctors and gets paid very little. After all, life and death situation usually occurs at A&Es
I think GPs mostly do a wonderful job, its just the pay level seem to be a bit excessive for the things they do. you have a cold, you make appointment, and by the time you get seen, you've probably already near recovery. And a lot of people went to see GP to get sick notes etc which takes about 7 mins/patient according to guidelines. GPs prescribe "safer drugs". At some countries, similar roles are only for junior doctors and gets paid very little. After all, life and death situation usually occurs at A&Es
If I have a cold, I go to the chemist.
If it's more serious, I call the GP's and I'm seen that day, I can't remember when it took longer than 2-3 hours from phoning them.
More serious than that, NHS Direct & request a non-emergency ambulance. More serious than that, 999.
Life & death can happen in your own home, and my GP's still do home visits.
But then, I'm out in the sticks, and certainly the older folks in the community NEED home visits.
kwak zzr
19-01-07, 04:08 PM
ours is rubbish, we have two they are husband and wife thats £200k pa :shock:
and the health centre is rubbish too, book an appointment 2 days before you want to get ill. :?
Just to throw a spanner in the works.
Many people slate their GP but the fact is that it's the practise which is to blame a lot of the time.
I have a nightmare trying to get an appointment, but when I do, I am seen by the GP and go away happy.
Don't forget that these GP's don't get paid for what they do, they get paid for what they know and could do. If I took my son or daughter to see the GP with a mysterious illnes and he spotted that it could be quite serious, I would say that he /she is worth the 100k salary.
If a lorry driver delivers a load to the wrong address it is easily sorted in a couple of days by re delivering to the right address. If a GP prescribes the wrong medicines then the results could be fatal. I for one, do not think that I would like that responsibility, even for 100k.
If people only went to the doctors for "proper" illnesses then getting an appointment would be easy and we would all be happy with the service. Possibly...................
Just to throw a spanner in the works.
Many people slate their GP but the fact is that it's the practise which is to blame a lot of the time.
I have a nightmare trying to get an appointment, but when I do, I am seen by the GP and go away happy.
Don't forget that these GP's don't get paid for what they do, they get paid for what they know and could do. If I took my son or daughter to see the GP with a mysterious illnes and he spotted that it could be quite serious, I would say that he /she is worth the 100k salary.
If a lorry driver delivers a load to the wrong address it is easily sorted in a couple of days by re delivering to the right address. If a GP prescribes the wrong medicines then the results could be fatal. I for one, do not think that I would like that responsibility, even for 100k.
If people only went to the doctors for "proper" illnesses then getting an appointment would be easy and we would all be happy with the service. Possibly...................
=D>
Here are some figures which may be of interests to you guys.
UK population: 60 million
NHS: £92 billion cost (£7.5 billion prescribing costs)
Primary care (GP): 261 million consultation
Secondary care: 13 million outpatients and 8.5 million admissions
As we can see, a lot of cost goes towards GP (jack of all trade doctor)/primary care
More alarming figure:
11% of hospital admissions are due to treatment error (why would your GP tell ya that when they eventually refer you to the right people, and in some cases too late)
average 4 person die through prescribing mistakes in UK per HOUR. That's death number of 35,040 per year in UK. (official figure from medical journal)
so perceived responsibility from public is one thing, actual incompetence leading to serious illness and death are mostly gone unquestioned.
100k, i would take that responsibility any time.
Samnooshka
19-01-07, 05:13 PM
My GP wasn't too bad, but he made me question him several times... i used to get bad headaches and black outs, not had them for years since, but he kept phobing me off saying to take paracetamol every time i had a headache (didn't work), so i nagged him long enough to send me for tests as i would be knocked off my feet for days. they eventually said i had clustered headaches... which is just another way of saying i get a lot of headaches :?
I also went over there a few years ago as i had shortness of breath and pain in my side, (i had not long before that broken a rib and it felt similar), so trotted over there, and he poked me about a bit as they do, sent me home again saying to be careful and take some asprin or paracetamol as he couldn't hear anything in my chest... eventually went to hospital from the pain and it turned out i had broken my rib again after playing hockey (broken the same rib 7 times in total now).
I just felt like the care they gave at the surgery made me feel like i was on a conveyor belt of patients getting as many in and out of the door as possible. but then my surgery recieved a lot of complaints about their patient care and diagnosis.
I thought this was going to be a thread about racing!
I just felt like the care they gave at the surgery made me feel like i was on a conveyor belt of patients getting as many in and out of the door as possible. but then my surgery recieved a lot of complaints about their patient care and diagnosis.
I hear that a lot actually. An old surgery of ours was the same, which is why we don't go there.
I must just be lucky :)
our USA friends ain't doing much better, but then again, their GP equivalent don't get paid that much.
http://www.worstpills.org/public/page.cfm?op_id=4
770,000 adverse drug events due to misprescribing per year in USA, out of which 100,000 death as a result, that is 11/hour death as a result of prescribing.
Our GPs just wanna make more money than the actors in Casualty.
northwind
19-01-07, 05:23 PM
you have a cold, you make appointment, and by the time you get seen, you've probably already near recovery.
You make a doctor's appointment for a cold? :) My GP's very good and usually available. I see him more than most people and wouldn't hear a word against the service.
What you're overlooking is that that's average profits. That's average, and profits. A lot of GPs are partners or owners of a practice. You don't complain if the owner of a business takes home significant profits. They don't get paid on average £100,000 just for being a GP. Also, that average is skewed upwards by some that earn huuuuuge amounts.
No, i don't. but as company policy doctor's note is needed everytime someone takes sick leave for more than 3 days. so that got to be pretty high on the list of things GP have to do?
northwind
19-01-07, 06:08 PM
3 days? That's unusual... Not to mention pretty impractical, for the resaons you said up the page... But that's not the GP's fault.
Samnooshka
19-01-07, 06:14 PM
my doctor wouldn't sign a doctors note until you had been sick for a week... that doesn't work too well with work policy. even then wouldn't you need to see the doctor to be classed as sick, and even then some appointments at my gp can take up to 2 weeks to get :evil: glad i changed now, and the surgery near where i am now living isn't too bad.
tinpants
19-01-07, 08:02 PM
As an NHS employee I am always amazed when people moan about the system then make statements such as " I've got a cold, therefore I NEED an appointment." No you don't. You need to go home and rest, spend the day watching old films on the telly whilst sipping Lemsip or suchlike.
Thats NOT directed at you, KrZ, but sadly there are people that call us out at all hours of the day and night just because they have a cold. Great. What do you expect me to do? Give you antibiotics? They won't work 'cos its a virus. You have to let it run its course.
In regard to the point that RDOD makes about GP's being paid too much I would argue that they DIRECTLY do more towards the general wellbeing of people in this country than most other people. They do make life or death decisions almost every day, unlike computer programmers (not picking on them but its all I could think of!) If there is anything they aren't happy with (in a clinical sense) they call for an ambulance and we do the rest.
BTW, if you think your GP is crap then change your GP; not necessarily for another practice, but for another GP in the same practice.
but sadly there are people that call us out at all hours of the day and night just because they have a cold. Great. What do you expect me to do? Give you antibiotics? They won't work 'cos its a virus. You have to let it run its course.
Wrong, flu can kill depends on the virus itself. the great influenza pandemic between 1918-1919 killed 50 million people world wide.
northwind
19-01-07, 08:42 PM
Yes, but influenza isn't a cold. Most of the time, when someone says they've got the flu, they just mean a bad cold too. And truly virulent epidemics like the spanish flu are incredibly rare, and were even then- the death rate from even uncommonly dangerous strains is tiny, I think the spanish flu was about 3%. TB was also a contributor. It was also made much deadlier by the war- lots of movement of people, for instance. The disease got places where resistance was low. Also, remember that it was a mutated bird flu, not one of the regular populations of human flus, and is effectively extinct.
I'm an "at risk", as a diabetic with low immune response- but the risk of me dying of flu or secondary infections is statistically close to irrelevant.
Can a cold kill you?
Yes! Babies and the very elderly can develop chest infections such as bronchiolitis caused by the RSV virus that can be fatal. You are also at risk take any medication that depresses your immune system.
Biker Biggles
19-01-07, 09:18 PM
The NHS as set up a few donkey's years ago relied on a bit of common sense and restraint among the patients.If everyone who got a cold or other minor illness consulted their GP or called an ambulance the whole thing would fold by this time tomorrow.Increasing expectations and cultural change are leading to things heading in that sort of direction(not quite there yet :lol: )and that is why there is so much head scratching in the political classes as to what the future holds for the NHS.
As for GPs being hugely overpaid at £100,000,I would ask who does deserve that sort of money then?
Senior execs of public bodies?Hmmm
Middle ranking execs of private firms?Hmmm
Advertising and sales people?Hmmm
IT specialists?
We all agree it should not be the footballers. :)
Quiff Wichard
19-01-07, 09:55 PM
my uncle is a GP-
he is worth every penny- he works very very hard... 7 days.. always on call.
sometimes he cant even get to ride his horses at the end of his garden or sit in his jacuzzi and recently on a christmas and new year cruise to the maldives he had to look after holiday makers twice !! and only got one botle of champagne for it .! ..
northwind
19-01-07, 10:00 PM
Yes! Babies and the very elderly can develop chest infections such as bronchiolitis caused by the RSV virus that can be fatal. You are also at risk take any medication that depresses your immune system.
You took that straight from a website, you cheeky scamp!
And in fact, that's secondary infections killing you. They reckon most kids will suffer from RSV by the time they're 5. It's very uncommon for it to be a life threat in a healthy baby.
hehe, yeah.. got that off cardiff uni website
I am a little worried here that everyone seem to just pick on the bit about getting a cold, how about 35000 people die each year in UK as a result of doctor's prescription.
weazelz
20-01-07, 12:05 AM
funnily enough I got an NHS "GP Patient Survey" form through the post today. I think I shall be making some mention of the time my GP told me to "f^ck off out of of my surgery" when i dared query what he had prescribed me
Dysparunia
20-01-07, 04:07 PM
Hmmm, I think a lot of press misreporting puts things into a wrong light.
The "salary" quoted that GPs get is how much they might get from the local PCT (Primary Care Trust-like a local sub-division of the NHS). This money is ALL they get to run the practice. So that has to pay for themselves, and cleaners, receptionists, supplies, nurses, IT eqpt, any specialist equipment etc etc etc.
The "report" from a medical paper regarding prescription errors & death rates, could you tell us which one? I would be highly doubtful of the figures quoted, or of the conclusions made.
Finally, bear in mind the training and experience a GP will have, 6 years in medical school and an absolute minimum of 4 years as a junior doctor before they could become a GP (provided they pass the multitude of exams required throughout this training).
What do they do? Well, yes, an awful lot is reassuring and simple treatments. The skill is being able to differentiate the cold in a baby from the life threatening pneumonia at an early stage. Being able to tell when someone's tired because they work too hard, from being an early sign of a cancer which if missed, may mean the difference between early treatment and saving a life and dying of cancer...this is where they earn much of their pay.
Andy
PS: No doctor should be issuing a sick certificate on the NHS for the 1st 5 days-this is covered by self-certifying, any workplace which demands a sick note before this can only do so if they are willing to pay for it to be done off the NHS (ie privately), and with the employee's permission.
Oh & Samnooshka, did your diagnosis of cluster headaches or broken rib in anyway change what actual treatment was required??
The "report" from a medical paper regarding prescription errors & death rates, could you tell us which one? I would be highly doubtful of the figures quoted, or of the conclusions made.
My first reaction to the figure was also disbelief, i will try to find the actual document which states that figure. My boss pointed that journal to me when i was putting together a presentation for Health ministers in Shanghai the importance of Health informatics in reducing misprescribing. (China official figure for misprescription death is at 1,000,000/year, but some believe that figure was derived from UK and USA data, the actual figure can be a lot higher. The head of one of the hospitals we visited whilest we were there did a presentation to us stating 0 death from prescription errors from his hospital, then i asked what about patient die after leaving the hospital... i think he hates me now..). I haven't managed to get the UK figure on the internet, but the USA data are easily obtainable from google which is pretty close to UK rates.
instigator
21-01-07, 01:55 AM
Gp's are fantastic, I get it. I don't like mine very much but that aside, I'm willing to accept they are fantastic.
However, you get fantastic, caring people in all walks of life and they certainly don't get paid £100k a year. Sure it takes a long time to get the qualification...but £100k....£100,000....one hundred thousand pounds...crazy money. I should go back to Uni. :roll:
Certainly do not deserve that much at all. If they get it, I don't believe much that is portrayed in the media and haven't read a thing in this thread bar the first few replies. :oops:
northwind
21-01-07, 02:18 AM
If they get it
Most of them don't- that's the average. Some make huge amounts, some just make a good professional wage.
Samnooshka
21-01-07, 09:11 AM
Oh & Samnooshka, did your diagnosis of cluster headaches or broken rib in anyway change what actual treatment was required??
Yes :) i was given some tablets to reduce blood pressure for when i got the headaches (some stuff better than aspirin anyway), i had to be careful with these as i naturally have low blood pressure and the tablets sometimes made me feel worse, i was in and out of the doctors for about 2 years trying to get the right treatment for it and having tests as the pain was unbearable at times, we tried everything even drugs to help raise my blood pressure a little as i was passing out with my headaches and they thought that my blood pressure may have dropped each time. I still get them from time to time, but nowhere near as bad as i haven't passed out for over 4 years. the trouble is with the test though is that they will only pick up a problem if it occurring at that time, say i had a headache during the test... but every test i had was done when i was feeling fine, so i kept getting sent home and then passing out again a day or so later. I was also tested for epilepsy as that comes in many varying stages, luckily i was tested to be clear. even so i had to wait longer to get my provisional license and it took ages to get a doctors certificate to say i was clear and send that to the dvla.
To get them to take me seriously and not just send me home with paracetamol i had to keep going back saying that there is something wrong and it needs to be sorted as i wanted to learn how to drive. he eventually sent me to see the neurologist and it was her who told me what was wrong.
oh and the ribs i was given pain killers.
I understand the complexities of a gp's job, and i would never take on the responsibility they carry on their shoulders. I think i just had a bad surgery as they did have a lot of complaints about their customer service. It may have changed now i know they employed a new GP, i haven't been there since i moved out of my parents.
As for the sick notes i know my last GP wouldn't issue one before 5 days. but i didn't know that if work wanted one then they would have to pay for it, i always thought we had to pay for it, but then i haven't taken more than one day off sick at a time (apart from when i broke my rib last year and even then i went into work before i got told to go home as i couldn't lift or be useful).
Dysparunia
21-01-07, 10:55 AM
If they get it
Most of them don't- that's the average. Some make huge amounts, some just make a good professional wage.
GPS DO NOT GET PAID THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY.
Sorry to shout, but it really annoys me, the figures being quoted in the press are how much they are given to pay for the practice. Their pay is how much they have left after they have paid for everyone and everything else.
Samnooshka, who provided your "clear" certificate for the driving license , your GP, or the neurologist (or your neurologist via the GP)?
northwind
21-01-07, 12:53 PM
GPS DO NOT GET PAID THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY.
The figure quoted here is average PROFIT, not the surgery grant.
Ablazze
21-01-07, 01:36 PM
GPS DO NOT GET PAID THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY.
I work with GPs in an out of hours service & i can say for a fact that YES they do get paid this & more on average ( i work with a pool of about 60 GPs )
Couple points GPs are self employed so have costs even after the day to day running of there surgery, medical insurance for one is close to a grand a month also the GPs that earn this are the partners most new GPs are salaried allowing the existing partners to pay them less & divy up the remaining monies.
Are GPs worth this amount i would say Yes they are, they do a superb job saving the NHS from wastefull admissions & saving lives on a daily basis, how many other professionals work as long including out of hrs , dentists hah its hard enough to get an emergency plumber never mind a dentist.
& for the love of god dont start me off on NHS INDIRECT What a total total waste of NHS cash i advise all of you to bypass this useless Tony blair pet & contact your local out of hrs provider direct.
Blazey...
Samnooshka
21-01-07, 04:25 PM
If they get it
Most of them don't- that's the average. Some make huge amounts, some just make a good professional wage.
GPS DO NOT GET PAID THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY.
Sorry to shout, but it really annoys me, the figures being quoted in the press are how much they are given to pay for the practice. Their pay is how much they have left after they have paid for everyone and everything else.
Samnooshka, who provided your "clear" certificate for the driving license , your GP, or the neurologist (or your neurologist via the GP)?
neurologist through the GP, i was waiting ages and phoned the neurologist to see if she had given it to my GP and she had. But the GP took ages to send it in to the DVLA. The DVLA then sent a form to my GP for him to fill in from their doctors, and he took ages then too. He doesn't work there now as far as i know. He received so many complaints. I was never in there for silly little things like colds and will stay away from a doctor if i can help it, anyone who knows me can confirm that, so when i do go, it is because i really need to see one. I don't even take a sick day until i am told to go home.
A lot of GPs i work with earn 150k and over salary wise.
trickywoos
21-01-07, 10:44 PM
I had to wait 3 days to see my GP last week, and then they were running 45 mins late, mutter mutter..... The last 3 times I've been there, they're referred me onto someone else, so don't really know what their treatment is like! LOL
I'm not going to start on the NHS....had to wait 3 months for an x-ray which finally happened in sept, and since then have been waiting for my next appointment, which finally is on Tuesday!
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.