Humans are Reverse Evolving …

[Blue_SV650S]

Darwin's theories worked on the premise that basically the strongest and most intelligent survive. i.e. the dumb and weak will get eaten or are unable to sustain themselves and die before successfully breeding and therefore removed from the gene pool, thus making the species stronger.

However - Humans are the only species on this planet that are reverse evolving …

For two main reasons:-

Firstly modern medicine meaning that people with conditions meaning that they would not have been able to survive before, are living and able to breed.

Secondly, where more and more women are choosing to take the ‘career’ path or their own life over making as many babies as possible and where the chav fik-o’s are knocking them out left right and center … i.e. generally speaking the more intelligent women are having fewer children, the thicker knock as many out as possible and all their offspring are cared for by ‘the state’ so all survive however non-resourceful the parents.

So our species is getting thicker and thicker and more and more ‘conditions’ allowed to be genetically transferred … the gene pool is being diluted ...

How do we resolve this issue?? Or do we just allow our gene-pool to deteriorate further???

Would society allow us to prevent the dumb and the weak breading?? How would we implement it? Sterilisation, execution?!? Who would decide the cut-off??

Discuss …

[Grinch]

I've told you before... make me your ruler and I will solve all these problems for you.

E.g. like the grey squirrels are given nuts (Stella) that make them sterile, as I am the head of state it will all be done in secret and to late for anyone to do anything about it! Or I am I just saying whats already being done? Dumbde, dumb, dumb...

[gettin2dizzy]

yeah its scary! get on the bus and there's girls no older than 16 with 2 kids....weird! I do find it odd there's more restrictions on getting married than their is to have a child. What do you make of chinas 1-child policy? Because we don't suffer from their population crowding maybe it could be a 2-child policy here?

[andyaikido]

Sterilisation. Didn't the Swedes do something like this a few decades ago?

Always narks me that couples wanting to adopt have to jump through hoops and prove they can provide for their children before being aproved. But if you have no money, no job, and no intention of working you can have as many kids as you like and the state will provide.

Who to decide all this? Well, there's the problem...

[gettin2dizzy]

the swedes were terminating ill or disabled births until the 70s! its terrible, but they barely have any 'problems' anymore. Maybe in 100 years it'll be seen as a great achievement.

[Blue_SV650S]

...
Who to decide all this? Well, there's the problem...

I would be your dictator :notworthy: 8) ... my regime would be quite brutal ... the way I see it a global 'cull' is probably in order and a benefit to not only the human race, but the planet!! 8) (i.e. If I end up wiping out say 50% of the population - I instantly do away with an immense amount of pollution and resource usage).

Oh and by the way, just to make it clear, my criteria would be based purely on benefit to civilization/the species ... s3x, race, colour or creed would not enter into it ... you is either w-orvy or you izn't :)

For a start, all yellow curvy SV650 owners would automatically be culled!! :D

...

...

I shouldn't turn this very interesting topic into a joke, as I really think the concept of humans reverse evolving is really thought provoking ... :oops:

[Vfr400]

...
Who to decide all this? Well, there's the problem...

I would be your dictator :notworthy: 8) ... my regime would be quite brutal ... the way I see it a global 'cull' is probably in order and a benefit to not only the human race, but the planet!! 8) (i.e. If I end up wiping out say 50% of the population - I instantly do away with an immense amount of pollution and resource usage).

Oh and by the way, just to make it clear, my criteria would be based purely on benefit to civilization/the species ... s3x, race, colour or creed would not enter into it ... you is either w-orvy or you izn't :)

For a start, all yellow curvy SV650 owners would automatically be culled!! :D

Blimey, you'll wipe out most of Essex :D :D

[Samnooshka]

Always narks me that couples wanting to adopt have to jump through hoops and prove they can provide for their children before being approved. But if you have no money, no job, and no intention of working you can have as many kids as you like and the state will provide.



It annoys me too.... and it also annoys me that i have one of these in my family... my sister got preggers at 20, has no job, no qualifications and is living off the state. She couldn't be more different from me if she tried. Also there are only 4 girls including me out of my year at school that has not had kids yet.... one of the girls that did get preggers has just had her 5th baby, her first one she had when she was 14 she is now 22!! But then i am from Chatham innit!!!

[the_runt69]

For a start, all yellow curvy SV650 owners would automatically be culled!! :D

...

...

I shouldn't turn this very interesting topic into a joke, as I really think the concept of humans reverse evolving is really thought provoking ... :oops:

I'll be safe then, mines undercoat silver at the moment

but on the subject of the dissucussion, too many bleeding heart liberals frightened of losing there place in power (Tony and Cherie et al) are trying to nanny us in not taking risks and furthering the evolution of the human race.

H

[weazelz]

Would society allow us to prevent the dumb and the weak breading?? How would we implement it? Sterilisation, execution?!? Who would decide the cut-off??

a simple spelling test should do the job nicely

[Blue_SV650S]

It annoys me too.... and it also annoys me that i have one of these in my family... my sister got preggers at 20, has no job, no qualifications and is living off the state. She couldn't be more different from me if she tried. Also there are only 4 girls including me out of my year at school that has not had kids yet.... one of the girls that did get preggers has just had her 5th baby, her first one she had when she was 14 she is now 22!! But then i am from Chatham innit!!!

Worse example still ... a mate at work married into a 'ready made' family (i.e his wife had 3 kids) ... one of his 'ready made' daughters ended up having her first kid at 15 ... she got it taken off her by the social services soon after ... she then had her second kid, that got taken away by social services ... she has just dropped kid 5 and all have been taken off her by social services where she isn't fit to be a mother. Why has she not been sterilised?

Oh and she has never worked a day in her life and has a little cooshdy council flat all paid for by you and me ...

The only advantage I can see from this is that hopefully those family's that are desperate to adopt have a ready supply ... but I am not sure about the genetics of the kid they are getting ;)

[Blue_SV650S]

Would society allow us to prevent the dumb and the weak breading?? How would we implement it? Sterilisation, execution?!? Who would decide the cut-off??

a simple spelling test should do the job nicely

:D :D :D 'played' ... If only my fingers would listen to my brain!! :D

Ohhhh ... just thought, all the OLD people would be culled too ... or at least not allowed down the post office an hour after opening ... at lunchtime ... or an hour before closing ... :D

[PsychoCannon]

This Documentary (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2007/01/why-idiots-prevail.html) Sums it up for me.

[Stu]

yeah its scary! get on the bus and there's girls no older than 16 with 2 kids....weird! I do find it odd there's more restrictions on getting married than their is to have a child. What do you make of chinas 1-child policy? Because we don't suffer from their population crowding maybe it could be a 2-child policy here?
Would not like to be restricted by it personally.
Also don't see large families as adding greatly to overcrowding so much as too many families having children.
Would prefer to see childless couples to be more acceptable.

But agree, have a big family and you have to support them.

[hovis]

...
Who to decide all this? Well, there's the problem...

I would be your dictator :notworthy: 8) ... my regime would be quite brutal

For a start, all yellow curvy SV650 owners would automatically be culled!

:shock:
http://upload5.postimage.org/350470/2927544e0d53731622.jpg (http://upload5.postimage.org/350470/photo_hosting.html)

[the_runt69]

...
Who to decide all this? Well, there's the problem...

I would be your dictator :notworthy: 8) ... my regime would be quite brutal

For a start, all yellow curvy SV650 owners would automatically be culled!

:shock:
http://upload5.postimage.org/350470/2927544e0d53731622.jpg (http://upload5.postimage.org/350470/photo_hosting.html)

CULL HIM AT ONCE

[TT Dee]

Darwin's theories worked on the premise that basically the strongest and most intelligent survive.


Hmmmm..... This all boils down to how one defines "strongest". In Darwinian terms I think it is a fluid concept; related to the amount of effort - physical or mental, employed in extracting resources from the environment that enable the individual/society to survive.

The ancients had to employ maximum effort and cunning to provide food, hearth and safety for the family unit/societal group because that is what the environment demanded. Thus the physically and mentally strong and agile survived.

However, in these modern times it can be argued that the "strong" are those who can manipulate the systems to enable them to survive and flourish with the minimum amount of effort.

This is not "reverse evolving" rather a case of perfect adaptation to the modern environment.

[Blue_SV650S]

...

An interesting and logical argument ...

However I believe it's our society looking after the weaker that is part of the whole problem though??

It is not these people that are 'thinking' or physically managing their way into it ... it is the nanny state looking after them ... there is a certain amount of cunning in that some successfully abuse the system, but take away the nanny state/the worker bees and they would more than likely perish ... not only that but the rest would flourish as they are not throttled by supporting the weaker ...

As for my Yella bike ... er ... come on lads I did know I had a yella bike :roll: ... oh never mind ... :D

Stu - its the proportions that are the problem, if the more intelligent and 'stronger' couples had large families that isn't a problem, its the lesser ones having the large families (and the state providing for them so they survive) that is the problem ... think of the Lion world only the biggest and baddest gets to spread his seed!! 8)

[Sudoxe]

A good point, perhaps. We all know there are people that abuse the system, get something for nothing etc. And if you don't further your self (by working, or actively pursuing something), then yes that person will perhaps be less intelligent than someone who has interests and does something to apply themselves. However, I don't believe it is purely down to genetics, as you would seem to imply.

http://www.elmspuzzles.com/gallery/Moon/gonefishingl.jpg


Dan

[Blue_SV650S]

...

To be fair I doubt many people would be able to 'survive' in the true sense of the word these days ... (I know a lot of clever people that are useless 'practically' .. but they might have the brains to adapt?! ... if not then they deserve to die :) ... There are also lots of physically capable people that have the body, but not the brains to apply it usefully).

Hey, perhaps that will be my selection method ... I have an island (that is capable of supporting life, but resources are not abundant) ... you get dumped there with noting at all ... you are picked up 2 months later ... dead or alive ... if you can walk to the boat/helicopter you have earned the right to survive and breed 8) That way it is not down to me, its then down to a combination of brain and brawn ...

[Ed]

Perhaps somebody can say if it's me. Am I losing touch?

I find a lot of the views on here disturbing, to put it mildly - and I take profound exception to them too. I've edited what I originally typed so as to avoid being inflammatory and so as to comply with forum rule 3.

[Baph]

Perhaps somebody can say if it's me. Am I losing touch?

I find a lot of the views on here disturbing, to put it mildly - and I take profound exception to them too. I've edited what I originally typed so as to avoid being inflammatory and so as to comply with forum rule 3.
You aint alone mate, I've purposefully not posted here before now.

Far as I can see, people are welcome to their opinions, and I'll leave it there :)

[Blue_SV650S]

The concept must stir some thought?? That is the initial idea ... ok so I have kinda tongue in cheek taken it to the n-th degree, but even still .. you are allowed to simply say "Na we are fine" ... that is your opinion ...

[DanDare]

It has been mentioned several times over not just in this thread about the benefits some 'chav's ' receive by sponging off the state. IE: Council flat, weekly Giro, CSA, etc etc.

As much I don't like to see it go on and it does annoy me that there are many people to lazy to lift a finger and work or support their own child or family, I in some way pity these people for having no
self respect or will to better themselves. Or put it another way, they don't aspire to achieve anything.

Now the likes of you me work, pay our bills, pay our tax and we always seeking to get that extra bit in life, like go see another country and take in its culture. Or save to get that new model Gixxer or save up to go on holiday etc. Whereas the chav element will never experience any of that.

I don't know if what I've written makes sense but does someone see what I'm saying?

[Baph]

The concept must stir some thought?? That is the initial idea ... ok so I have kinda tongue in cheek taken it to the n-th degree, but even still .. you are allowed to simply say "Na we are fine" ... that is your opinion ...
A discussion about the evolution of humans is very different to a discussion about culling elements of society (based on any criteria), in my opinion.

Afterall, wars have been fought because of someone wanting to cull elements of society in the past.

[Blue_SV650S]

DanDare - You might not care (or only pity), but I actually deeply begrudge supporting these people you mention!! It is throttling my achievements having to support them. I don’t get a say in the matter either!! I think thems that want to support these people should be able to, but thems that don’t shouldn’t be forced …

Anyway, ok DanDare&Baph, lets not take the culling any further, as you are right, that is a minefield and not really where I originally intended this thread to go … but I do feel there’s a reverse evolution issue here …

So I am really saying should we as a species bring back some form of ‘natural selection’ before we crawl back into the oceans?? ;)

[Tomcat]

Far from suggesting it is right, but it would be interesting to see if certain elements of the community would nurture and tolerate children better if we were restricted to the amount we could have.

I hate to say it but it seems at times that some people see children as a free meal instead of the gift that they are. (I know mine drive me mad a lot of the time, but I always remember how lucky I am! )

But then this leads to the issue of how do you control it, and at the end of the day it is (in my opinion) inhumane for us to restrict life, that is not what life is about .......... if that makes sense ?

[DanDare]

DanDare - You might not care (or only pity), but I actually deeply begrudge supporting these people you mention!! It is throttling my achievements having to support them. I don’t get a say in the matter either!! I think thems that want to support these people should be able to, but thems that don’t shouldn’t be forced …

Anyway, ok DanDare&Baph, lets not take the culling any further, as you are right, that is a minefield and not really where I originally intended this thread to go … but I do feel there’s a reverse evolution issue here …

So I am really saying should we as a species bring back some form of ‘natural selection’ before we crawl back into the oceans?? ;)

Whoa! Hang on a minute, at no point did I say that I didn't mind supporting them I merely pointed out that I pitied their small dull uninteresting lives.

And secondly, I never mentioned anything to do with culling...........

........Get you facts straight! :x

[Baph]

So I am really saying should we as a species bring back some form of ‘natural selection’ before we crawl back into the oceans?? ;)
In order to do that, we'd have to scrap most (if not all) of the Human Rights laws, and to do that, we'd have to split from the EU.

IMO, that might not be a bad thing either, but perhaps that's getting a little too political.

Culling definitely isn't the answer. But also, forgetting the fact that you don't like having to support elements of society (neither do I really, but it's not for me to decide where tax money gets spent), when things like global warming are taken into account, an answer is definitely needed. Maybe the global warming thing is just mother nature's way of enforcing 'natural selection' upon us all, in a non discriminatory way. Those that have the resources (physical/mental/financial etc) will survive, those that don't (and that could be all of us), won't.

Perhaps living on the moon (or eventually Mars) might help, but chances are that's so far away from happening that it may be too late.

[Ping]

Perhaps living on the moon (or eventually Mars) might help, **yadda yadda**

And I will be queen... :smt029








Reverse evolving.... Woohoo! We're revolving! :compress: \:D/

[Tomcat]

[quote=Baph]





Reverse evolving.... Woohoo! We're revolving! :compress: \:D/

:smt068

(thats me revolving not actually shooting you) :?

[Baph]

I think something messed up with your quotes there Tomcat :P

[Tomcat]

I think something messed up with your quotes there Tomcat :P

:?

[Ceri JC]

I think it's a worthy subject for discussion and it hasn't been covered as much as it should because population control is a bit taboo. I do remember reading about 18 months back that the government had finally twigged on the fact that part of our social problems stem from the fact that the system has a definite bias towards the uneducated and unemployed having children. Improved maternity pay/leave is only part of the solution in making children appealing to "the right sort of parents".

Equally taboo (and a linked subject) is should we treat genetically inherited diseases (particularly with v. expensive gene therapy)? It might seem humane in the short term, but are we shooting ourselves in the foot as a species? If all diseases are treated so we can survive, within a few generations we'd all have something potentially lethal. Aside from the massive cost of treatment, it'd mean that in the event of disruption of the supply of medicine (eg following a cataclysm) it wouldn't just be a percentage that die, but everyone. In short, we'd become a race even more so dependent on our technology than we already are.

I think it's inevitable that in time, the government in some country or other will have a means of mass contraception (for example, a chemical in the water supply) and prospective parents will have to pass a series of tests/checks before being given a dose of the antidote so they can try for the child. If we ever got into a Soylent Green sort of situation, I'm sure its use would become widespread.

[UlsterSV]

Abortion plays a part too. By killing perfectly healthy babies we could well be depriving ourselves of the best elements of our race. I would support terminating fetuses that have mental or physical disabilities if it was beneficial to Man, but the struggle to overcome these disabilities results in new knowledge and technology which we may need in the future to overcome other obstacles. Struggle is the father of all things!

[KrZ]

I am quite interested to know what the US welfare system are like. anyone?

[PsychoCannon]

http://www2.rgu.ac.uk/publicpolicy/introduction/wstate.htm

[Dave The Rave]

I think it's a worthy subject for discussion and it hasn't been covered as much as it should because population control is a bit taboo. I do remember reading about 18 months back that the government had finally twigged on the fact that part of our social problems stem from the fact that the system has a definite bias towards the uneducated and unemployed having children. Improved maternity pay/leave is only part of the solution in making children appealing to "the right sort of parents".

Equally taboo (and a linked subject) is should we treat genetically inherited diseases (particularly with v. expensive gene therapy)? It might seem humane in the short term, but are we shooting ourselves in the foot as a species? If all diseases are treated so we can survive, within a few generations we'd all have something potentially lethal. Aside from the massive cost of treatment, it'd mean that in the event of disruption of the supply of medicine (eg following a cataclysm) it wouldn't just be a percentage that die, but everyone. In short, we'd become a race even more so dependent on our technology than we already are.

I think it's inevitable that in time, the government in some country or other will have a means of mass contraception (for example, a chemical in the water supply) and prospective parents will have to pass a series of tests/checks before being given a dose of the antidote so they can try for the child. If we ever got into a Soylent Green sort of situation, I'm sure its use would become widespread.


Indeed it is very interesting topic. Some Hitler's like ideas too! Trouble is where do you draw the line? I am an diabetic on insulin - no family history it just popped up and I have to live with it. Would you cull me too? Strictly speaking you should as I am a genetic "garbage" What about people with glasses? Or eczema? With low IQ? With learning difficulties etc?

I see the point and yes we probably will wipe ourselves from this planet within few thousands of years if not much earlier than that? But it was inevitable since we started to cure diseases. But since humans have this urge to help the weak there is not much we can do about it.

As far as scum's right to live on social support and milk the system, well that's entirely different issue! Some people will need help and I have no problems with it. Some have been milking the system for generations and I have a problem with that. Perhaps there should be a real punishment for crime (chopping hands off, capital punishment for murders, etc.?) I find it pretty sad when I read about 25 years old burglar with 20 or so convictions. Brake the law 3x and get life in penalty colony seems like a reasonable request.

[Grinch]

think of the Lion world only the biggest and baddest gets to spread his seed!! 8)

Or the one that nips in when he's not looking...

[Grinch]

We need to encourage smoking more... as it makes you sterile, along with drinking more beer and doing more drugs. All these make the possibility of conception lower, or is this already happening?

[Ceri JC]

Indeed it is very interesting topic. Some Hitler's like ideas too! Trouble is where do you draw the line? I am an diabetic on insulin - no family history it just popped up and I have to live with it. Would you cull me too? Strictly speaking you should as I am a genetic "garbage" What about people with glasses? Or eczema? With low IQ? With learning difficulties etc?


I forgot to mention that; part of the reason they're taboo is that the Nazis' fondness for it makes it a very unpopular subject to bring up (because people fear being associated with them).

You mentioned culling you, I think that's the big difference between any modern implementation of this against the nazi's idea. Mass killings are no longer acceptable (thankfully), so I imagine it'd be more a case of no medicine, so you'd (possibly) die as a result of your "weakness", rather than be killed for it.

Incidentally, I merely said that it was subject worthy of discussion: not that I was in favour of it.

Grinch: We're getting, on average, more sterile all the time anyway. Our sperm counts are measurably lower than our fathers'.

[Grinch]

Grinch: We're getting, on average, more sterile all the time anyway. Our sperm counts are measurably lower than our fathers'.

I would just like to point out that's you... mines just fine... in-fact exceptionally fine, 3 times the average.

Don't worry people, I'll repopulate to world when your all sterile.

[Dave The Rave]

Grinch: We're getting, on average, more sterile all the time anyway. Our sperm counts are measurably lower than our fathers'.

I would just like to point out that's you... mines just fine... in-fact exceptionally fine, 3 times the average.

Don't worry people, I'll repopulate to world when your all sterile.

Grinch ... no offense but you need a different face to stand a chance of mating .... :D ... sperm count on its own will not help whilst pulling .... although it could be an interesting chat up line!

[Baph]

Grinch: We're getting, on average, more sterile all the time anyway. Our sperm counts are measurably lower than our fathers'.

I would just like to point out that's you... mines just fine... in-fact exceptionally fine, 3 times the average.

Don't worry people, I'll repopulate to world when your all sterile.

Grinch ... no offense but you need a different face to stand a chance of mating .... :D ... sperm count on its own will not help whilst pulling .... although it could be an interesting chat up line!
If all the male population were sterile, I'm sure he'd have no problems at all...

[Tomcat]

Grinch: We're getting, on average, more sterile all the time anyway. Our sperm counts are measurably lower than our fathers'.

I would just like to point out that's you... mines just fine... in-fact exceptionally fine, 3 times the average.

Don't worry people, I'll repopulate to world when your all sterile.

Grinch ... no offense but you need a different face to stand a chance of mating .... :D ... sperm count on its own will not help whilst pulling .... although it could be an interesting chat up line!

I think its a characterful face ..... I've had worse



ooops I mean seen worse :wink:

[Dave The Rave]

Grinch: We're getting, on average, more sterile all the time anyway. Our sperm counts are measurably lower than our fathers'.

I would just like to point out that's you... mines just fine... in-fact exceptionally fine, 3 times the average.

Don't worry people, I'll repopulate to world when your all sterile.

Grinch ... no offense but you need a different face to stand a chance of mating .... :D ... sperm count on its own will not help whilst pulling .... although it could be an interesting chat up line!

I think its a characterful face ..... I've had worse



ooops I mean seen worse :wink:


Characterful ... I see .... I think he's on a borderline of culling! :?

[Blue_SV650S]

{see below}

Whoa! Hang on a minute, at no point did I say that I didn't mind supporting them I merely pointed out that I pitied their small dull uninteresting lives. --- I meant financially support .. i.e. presuming you are a tax payer. You said in the very same statement you don't condone it.

And secondly, I never mentioned anything to do with culling ........... "lets not take the culling any further" is what that was in response to?? ... what I meant by that was that I was agreeing it was time for the collective thread to shut the door on that avenue I opened, not that you were treading that path ....

........Get you facts straight! :x ... I think it was actually a combination of you misinterpreting what I meant and/or me not being explicit enough in what I said. ;)

[Grinch]

OK where's this going now... apparently I'm a minger.

[Blue_SV650S]

OK where's this going now... apparently I'm a minger.

I am sorry dude, but gotta admit, for the ladies it'd be a close call between you and I in the 'Not if you were the last man alive' contest!! :D

[Tomcat]

OK where's this going now... apparently I'm a minger.

oh god, we already got dandare and Blue sv falling out, don't you start as well!

By the way, its funny that you are the one that noted the sneaky one that 'nip's in' when the biggest and strongest isn't looking ...... minger ?!


only kidding
:lol:

[Grinch]

Time for a avatar change I think...

[KrZ]

begin rant:
I believe if you contribute to the society more you deserve more in return. if someone can not make any contribution towards a society, then the state need to guarantee minimal survival needs, such as food and accommodation & health care, NOT food + accommodation + healthcare + drug + fag + alcohol needs. The family will have to pick up the rest of the bills.

look at the up coming superpowers (including one which is communist/socialist country) and their welfare systems, "next to none" but yet it drives the market and the country gets respect. The message is "work hard study hard and you go somewhere in future" rather than "do nothing, don't study and you can get more from doing nothing than working".
end rant...

[DanDare]

{see below}

Whoa! Hang on a minute, at no point did I say that I didn't mind supporting them I merely pointed out that I pitied their small dull uninteresting lives. --- I meant financially support .. i.e. presuming you are a tax payer. You said in the very same statement you don't condone it.

And secondly, I never mentioned anything to do with culling ........... "lets not take the culling any further" is what that was in response to?? ... what I meant by that was that I was agreeing it was time for the collective thread to shut the door on that avenue I opened, not that you were treading that path ....

........Get you facts straight! :x ... I think it was actually a combination of you misinterpreting what I meant and/or me not being explicit enough in what I said. ;)

I am a tax payer and get taxed quite a bit for having 2 jobs ( greedy I know )
I resent the fact of having to pay for these little scrotes to sit on their **** and watch daytime telly.
However when you sit down and work out how much of your tax goes to on each month, its only pence anyway. The way in which its spent is as much a debate. I was merely sympathetic towards the mental capacity of chav's.

Re: culling, I'm not gonna even touch that sore subject, however in your Post you specifically named me as a culprit which I wasn't happy with.

:grouphug:

[Tomcat]

Time for a avatar change I think...


whhhhhoooooow ........ scrubbed up ........ nice tash

[Dave The Rave]

Time for a avatar change I think...


whhhhhoooooow ........ scrubbed up ........ nice tash

Noah .... Grinch, nice tie, suit and all but your chat up line should include the sperm count ... for sure ... in fact I like it so much I may start using it myself ... :twisted:

[philipMac]

Ok, this thread is fairly brain dead. Has someone been at the Eugenicists handbook again? Hmm?

It also appears that everyone who has attempted to define evolution (except maybe Trampie) doesnt understand evolution.
I have been told over and over that most people dont, but I suppose I dont believe them. Or didn't.

1) All life evolves. All the time. Every generation. There is no evolving backwards.

2) Evolution (and I am talking about Natural selection here, not sexual selection, drift, or the various other mechanisms of evolution) is not survival of the strongest. It means that the organisms best "fitted", best suited to their environment get to pass on their genetic heritage.
I am not even going to start into how other mechanisms of evolution occur, if people dont understand the basis of Natural Selection.

*Shakes head*. Unreal.

[Baph]

Ok, this thread is fairly brain dead. Has someone been at the Eugenicists handbook again? Hmm?

It also appears that everyone who has attempted to define evolution (except maybe Trampie) doesnt understand evolution.
I have been told over and over that most people dont, but I suppose I dont believe them. Or didn't.

1) All life evolves. All the time. Every generation. There is no evolving backwards.

2) Evolution (and I am talking about Natural selection here, not sexual selection, drift, or the various other mechanisms of evolution) is not survival of the strongest. It means that the organisms best "fitted", best suited to their environment get to pass on their genetic heritage.
I am not even going to start into how other mechanisms of evolution occur, if people dont understand the basis of Natural Selection.

*Shakes head*. Unreal.
Kind of what I was getting to by steering the debate more to global warming etc. Those that survive, will be the ones best suited to survival, and this might not be humans.

But you said it in better words philipMac :oops:

[Grinch]

cheese anyone?

[philipMac]

cheese anyone?
Bloody hell Grinch. You are looking very stylish altogether there.
Proper full Windsor knot and everything :shock:. Frightening almost.

[Tomcat]

Ok, this thread is fairly brain dead. Has someone been at the Eugenicists handbook again? Hmm?

It also appears that everyone who has attempted to define evolution (except maybe Trampie) doesnt understand evolution.
I have been told over and over that most people dont, but I suppose I dont believe them. Or didn't.

1) All life evolves. All the time. Every generation. There is no evolving backwards.

2) Evolution (and I am talking about Natural selection here, not sexual selection, drift, or the various other mechanisms of evolution) is not survival of the strongest. It means that the organisms best "fitted", best suited to their environment get to pass on their genetic heritage.
I am not even going to start into how other mechanisms of evolution occur, if people dont understand the basis of Natural Selection.

*Shakes head*. Unreal.

get over yourself, people are passing their comments, and their understanding, if it is incorrect, please explain and correct people politely ....to use words such as brain dead is arrogant and above yourself

[Blue_SV650S]

....

get over yourself, people are passing their comments, and their understanding, if it is incorrect, please explain and correct people politely ....to use words such as brain dead is arrogant and above yourself

Also you can't encompass all the theories in just a few sentences ... the drift of things is that the strongest and fittest survive ... i.e. indeed thems that can run (or hide) from trouble and can be resourceful enough to feed and breed successfully. If your genetic/physical build is such that you can't survive, you are not fit enough and you are out ... brain can overide some of this too ... e.g. humans can live in the arctic, not coz they have evolved to do so, but because they can adapt their surroundings to make it possible ...

His comment about never reverse evolving is accurate, but I tend to think it is just being too literal about the terms and it is obvious what is meant/implied by this ...

[philipMac]

get over yourself, people are passing their comments, and their understanding, if it is incorrect, please explain and correct people politely ....to use words such as brain dead is arrogant and above yourself

No. I wont get over myself. If people just want to talk sh!te, and post up spurious, wrong, offensive and inflammatory muck on SV650.org, I will call them on it.
There are plenty of resources on the Web to learn about Evolution. I have posted up long and polite explanations of it before.
But, seeing the sort of fascist rubbish being spouted here in the guise of science irritates me. If people dont understand it, and they obviously dont, then dont write threads about their position on it.

I am not going to go wading into a trackday thread stating that Conti super sports at 40psi is the only way to go, because I dont know jack about setting up track bikes.

[Tomcat]

get over yourself, people are passing their comments, and their understanding, if it is incorrect, please explain and correct people politely ....to use words such as brain dead is arrogant and above yourself

No. I wont get over myself. If people just want to talk sh!te, and post up spurious, wrong, offensive and inflammatory muck on SV650.org, I will call them on it.
There are plenty of resources on the Web to learn about Evolution. I have posted up long and polite explanations of it before.
But, seeing the sort of fascist rubbish being spouted here in the guise of science irritates me. If people dont understand it, and they obviously dont, then dont give write threads about their position on it.

I am not going to go wading into a trackday thread stating that Conti super sports at 40psi is the only way to go, because I dont know jack about setting up track bikes.

Its called Idle banter

[SoulKiss]

Time for a avatar change I think...


whhhhhoooooow ........ scrubbed up ........ nice tash

Noah .... Grinch, nice tie, suit and all but your chat up line should include the sperm count ... for sure ... in fact I like it so much I may start using it myself ... :twisted:

Best chat-up line I heard for ages (got it from someone on here who will remain anonymous)

"The names Bond, Uni-Bond - I'm here to fill your crack"

TAXI !!!!!!

[Blue_SV650S]

Its called Idle banter

You light the touch paper you gotta expect fireworks ;)

The whole idea of the thread was to encourage debate and see peoples views on the concept that natural selection (in its most literal sense) has all been all but outmoded by/in humans. Anyone that has ever been to school (and listened ;)) has a basic understanding of Darwins theories, certainly enough to make comment on this discussion.

Unfortunately philipMac hasn't really been able to add anything to the debate so far.

[DanDare]

Darwin obviously never read the story about the Hare and the Tortoise.

[SoulKiss]

Darwinism - PAH!

All bow down and behold His Noodly Appendage !!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

Hehe

[Grinch]

Darwin obviously never read the story about the Hare and the Tortoise.

No he was to busy looking at worms and sparrows.

[Grinch]

cheese anyone?
Bloody hell Grinch. You are looking very stylish altogether there.
Proper full Windsor knot and everything :shock:. Frightening almost.

Me surviving meant looking nice on my wedding day... plus I rather liked the way it all looked. I'm a big fan of the 20's to 40's look... suit, tie, nice hat.

[Filipe M.]

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5552/popcorn8tm.gif

[philipMac]

Unfortunately philipMac hasn't really been able to add anything to the debate so far.

I dunno. Did you ehhhh, try reading my post?

I can post it again if you like.

1) All life evolves. All the time. Every generation. There is no evolving backwards.

2) Evolution (and I am talking about Natural selection here, not sexual selection, drift, or the various other mechanisms of evolution) is not survival of the strongest. It means that the organisms best "fitted", best suited to their environment get to pass on their genetic heritage.

[Tomcat]

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5552/popcorn8tm.gif

:kiss: you make me laugh

[Warthog]

I also think its annoying that people can sit around not working and get loads of benefit. Its NOT eugenics we are talking about here, it is laziness being rewarded. And in terms of evolution, I think its about time I evolve to get rid of these parasites.

[Baph]

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5552/popcorn8tm.gif
Mind if I join you there fella? :D

[Grinch]

Unfortunately philipMac hasn't really been able to add anything to the debate so far.

I dunno. Did you ehhhh, try reading my post?

I can post it again if you like.

1) All life evolves. All the time. Every generation. There is no evolving backwards.

2) Evolution (and I am talking about Natural selection here, not sexual selection, drift, or the various other mechanisms of evolution) is not survival of the strongest. It means that the organisms best "fitted", best suited to their environment get to pass on their genetic heritage.

Oh god you mean I have to read this stuff other then just skip over it...

[philipMac]

I also think its annoying that people can sit around not working and get loads of benefit. Its NOT eugenics we are talking about here, it is laziness being rewarded. And in terms of evolution, I think its about time I evolve to get rid of these parasites.

http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

?

[Grinch]

http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

?

Who's he? Did he get a darwin award?

[Ping]

Who's he? Did he get a darwin award?
Dunno, but he's wearing a suit alarmingly similar to yours...


:lol:

[Filipe M.]

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5552/popcorn8tm.gif

:kiss: you make me laugh

Glad to be of service :takeabow:

Mind if I join you there fella? :D

Be my guest! :lol:

[hovis]

http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

http://upload5.postimage.org/357857/weddingdanf.gif (http://upload5.postimage.org/357857/photo_hosting.html)


?

Who's he? Did he get a darwin award?

GRINCH

is that you & you dad on your wedding day

[DanDare]

Who's he? Did he get a darwin award?

Yep, first on the list in fact!


http://upload5.postimage.org/357852/George_Bush_6.jpg (http://upload5.postimage.org/357852/photo_hosting.html)

[Biker Biggles]

Give the man a drink,not a Darwin award.He looks like he needs one.

[Dave The Rave]

http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

?

Who's he? Did he get a darwin award?

Nope he's the top of the evolution chain! Shows you ... no brain, no look ... to be on the top you just need .... a powerful daddy!

I am sure I will get a mouthful from philipMac for steering this serious conversation elsewhere but I will risk it! 8)

[philipMac]

http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

http://upload5.postimage.org/357857/weddingdanf.gif (http://upload5.postimage.org/357857/photo_hosting.html)


?

Who's he? Did he get a darwin award?

GRINCH

is that you & you dad on your wedding day

Yeah, but Bushy baby has only a half Windsor on.
Half Windsors are for chavs and spivs.
Like I was saying, Gentlemen wear Full Windsors.

[Blue_SV650S]

I dunno. Did you ehhhh, try reading my post?

....

Yes, yes I did ... I actually think your second point is a bit of a contradiction depending on how you read/interpret it. ;)

Unfortunately you seem unable to grasp the premise of this debate.

To reiterate - Please give comment on if you think that as a species we have actually prevented natural selection (in its rawest form) from controlling the gene pool and if we should (as a species) address this before we potentially evolve into something less than what we are now ...

[Filipe M.]

To reiterate - Please give comment on if you think that as a species we have actually prevented natural selection (in its rawest form) from controlling the gene pool and if we should (as a species) address this before we potentially evolve into something less than what we are now ...

That's what the "Ban user" on the Admin's control panel is for, right? :-k Hmm...

[philipMac]

Unfortunately you seem unable to grasp the premise of this debate.

To reiterate - Please give comment on if you think that as a species we have actually prevented natural selection (in its rawest form) from controlling the gene pool and if we should (as a species) address this before we potentially evolve into something less than what we are now ...

I already answered that mate.
We cannot, as in, it is completely impossible to avoid natural selection.
From the choice of your mate up to the moment of fertilization of the egg, it is all subject to Natural selection.

Take for instance *just* the last step? Which sperm fertilizes the egg? That choice is made by Natural selection, the sperm that is most adapted to living inside the female and getting into eggs does.
There is no getting away from it. None.
I mean, I am honestly sorry if I am not explaining NS properly, maybe I am not at all.
EVERY life form on the planet is under pressure by natural selection. You just have to understand where the selective pressures are coming from. Humans have different pressures on them than clown loaches,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/A_clown_loach.jpg
but they are there.

We are always evolving into something we are not now.

Now, if you metric intelligence somehow (and I havnt seen any reasonable way to do this) and you ask, are we as a species getting less intelligent, and somehow correlate increasing intellect to "moving forward evolutionarily" then this is a completely different question.
Completely.
(I dont think we are getting less intelligent as a species though. That's just my personal opinion, as opposed to the above, which is summarizing other people's experimental data.)

[Tomcat]

Unfortunately you seem unable to grasp the premise of this debate.

To reiterate - Please give comment on if you think that as a species we have actually prevented natural selection (in its rawest form) from controlling the gene pool and if we should (as a species) address this before we potentially evolve into something less than what we are now ...

I already answered that mate.
We cannot, as in, it is completely impossible to avoid natural selection.
From the choice of your mate up to the moment of fertilization of the egg, it is all subject to Natural selection.

Take for instance *just* the last step? Which sperm fertilizes the egg? That choice is made by Natural selection, the sperm that is most adapted to living inside the female and getting into eggs does.
There is no getting away from it. None.
I mean, I am honestly sorry if I am not explaining NS properly, maybe I am not at all.
EVERY life form on the planet is under pressure by natural selection. You just have to understand where the selective pressures are coming from. Humans have different pressures on them than clown loaches,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/A_clown_loach.jpg
but they are there.

We are always evolving into something we are not now.

Now, if you metric intelligence somehow (and I havnt seen any reasonable way to do this) and you ask, are we as a species getting less intelligent, and somehow correlate increasing intellect to "moving forward evolutionarily" then this is a completely different question.
Completely.
(I dont think we are getting less intelligent as a species though. That's just my personal opinion, as opposed to the above, which is summarizing other people's experimental data.)

Ok ... so we have pressures by natural selection, I take it by this you mean such as health issues and environmental issues. But our own intelligence is trying to argue with this, as in medicine, war and pollution, none of these things are natural, other than our own brains. We are possibly going to destroy ourselves before natural selection gets a chance to make the choices, or is THAT the natural course intended ? or am I not getting this?

[Blue_SV650S]

Ok ... so we have pressures by natural selection, I take it by this you mean such as health issues and environmental issues. But our own intelligence is trying to argue with this, as in medicine, war and pollution, none of these things are natural, other than our own brains. We are possibly going to destroy ourselves before natural selection gets a chance to make the choices, or is THAT the natural course intended ? or am I not getting this?

I think philipMac is trying to say that even that is a means of natural selection as it works on many levels (which it does). But you are grasping more what I gave birth to this thread to discuss ;)

...

A much more constructive comment and I agree with everything you are saying :)

However dude ](*,) :D that's not really the angle I am getting at here.

[Tomcat]

Evolution can't reverse, that's the point. But I guess you (blue SV ... starter of the thread!) are just playing on words and suggesting the irony of it all ?

[Ping]

Evolution can't reverse, that's the point. But I guess you (blue SV ... starter of the thread!) are just playing on words and suggesting the irony of it all ?
Ding!! That's what I got from the original post... :lol:

[Tomcat]

Evolution can't reverse, that's the point. But I guess you (blue SV ... starter of the thread!) are just playing on words and suggesting the irony of it all ?
Ding!! That's what I got from the original post... :lol:

sorry am slow on the up take! Seems to me others were just complicating it ! :wink:

[Blue_SV650S]

Evolution can't reverse, that's the point. But I guess you (blue SV ... starter of the thread!) are just playing on words and suggesting the irony of it all ?

Indeed, I was just using the term in a 'headline' type fashion ... it is a 1-liner and descriptive of the concept (doesn't have to be 100% correct ;)). 8)

And yes, what the human species is doing to itself is quite ironic … our own brilliance is sending us essentially backwards ;)

The basic premise is that we are the only species on the planet that understand the evolutionary process and therefore can KNOWINGLY have a direct impact of our evolutional path … our own brilliance and community means that despite this (or maybe as a side effect of this) we are actually allowing our species gene pool to move in a direction that could be considered ‘backwards’. Again as we are aware this, as a species, should we direct ourselves to improve with every generation (like every other species does naturally), not worsen??? Because as a community we are so good at everyone surviving, to do this in modern humans you would need to remove the ‘weakest’ elements from the gene pool and encourage the ‘strongest’ to propagate … do we want to and how would we do that?!?!

As a side note, where we have become the most dominant species on the planet, with the ability to adapt our environment around us (to a massive degree), we are getting everywhere and stripping the planet of its resources faster than it can sustain itself … so not only does our dominance effect us, but every other living organism on this planet … hell the planet itself!! :shock:

Personally I think it is a fascinating concept … but then I am a bit of a geek 8) :D

[Grinch]

Yeah, but Bushy baby has only a half Windsor on.
Half Windsors are for chavs and spivs.
Like I was saying, Gentlemen wear Full Windsors.

Back to the real issue, are you a full or half Windsor sort of person? Not sure I can remember how to tie it now.

Might have to get the fedora out though.

I really do own one.

[Warthog]

I also think its annoying that people can sit around not working and get loads of benefit. Its NOT eugenics we are talking about here, it is laziness being rewarded. And in terms of evolution, I think its about time I evolve to get rid of these parasites.

http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

?

What do you mean? Bush is a parasite? I am Bush? Explain yourself! :D

[philipMac]

Yeah, but Bushy baby has only a half Windsor on.
Half Windsors are for chavs and spivs.
Like I was saying, Gentlemen wear Full Windsors.

Back to the real issue, are you a full or half Windsor sort of person? Not sure I can remember how to tie it now.

Might have to get the fedora out though.

I really do own one.

Full Windsors all the way man.
My Granddad owned a tie company. I was told when I was about 6 how to tie a tie [EDIT: about 30 times]. I was, very seriously, told to accept no imitations. I think he also showed me how to tie a bow tie, which appeared to be unfeasibly complex. And unnecessary.

I also own some class of a Fedora hat thing. Someone gave it to me I think :lol:

[Grinch]

Full Windsors all the way man.
My Granddad owned a tie company. I was told when I was about 6 how to tie a tie [EDIT: about 30 times]. I was, very seriously, told to accept no imitations. I think he also showed me how to tie a bow tie, which appeared to be unfeasibly complex. And unnecessary.

I also own some class of a Fedora hat thing. Someone gave it to me I think :lol:

I bought my Fedora...

http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/graphics/00000001/Borsalino%20Classic%20Fedora%20Aug%2002%20225X.gif

Mines more brown.

[Razor]

I also own some class of a Fedora hat thing. Someone gave it to me I think :lol:

I bought my Fedora...

http://delmonicohatter.com/plugins/MivaMerchants/graphics/00000001/Borsalino%20Classic%20Fedora%20Aug%2002%20225X.gif

Mines more brown.

Like this??

http://spyhunter007.com/Images/indiana_jones_wearing_his_hat.jpg

[Grinch]

I look more hunky...

[philipMac]

Mine is tweed.
http://www.headchange.com/ebay/1229side.jpg

Jaysus. I think I wore it once too.
For shame.