New Windows

[Law]

Windows Vista, anyone got an opinion on it, just curious.

[Sudoxe]

Mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac did i mention that Macs are good?


I've not tried Vista yet, but will try and get an msdn/eval off the desktop team to give it a try.

Dan

[Ping]

Mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac did i mention that Macs are good?


I've not tried Vista yet, but will try and get an msdn/eval off the desktop team to give it a try.

Dan
Macs are the devil's poo shaped and baked into fancy schmancy computers. :P

:lol:

Vista... Well, I'll probably get it when I can't run anything without it (chose the bug option tho). :lol:

[Tara]

Macs everytime

[SoulKiss]

Avoid Vista until at least SP1

This work laptop I am using has it on it, one of my laptops has it on it (experiment) and my main PC at home had it on it (other non-mains run Debian Linux)

I removed Vista from my main PC (actually my gaming rig) because it

a) Didnt have SLi (using 2 GFX cards at once) support

b) The changes Microsoft made will make drivers VERY hard to write for manufacturers - accelerated audio (a major feature of Creative sound cards) is impossible now.

c) Wierd anomalies in the file level security system - installing an update for World of Warcraft failed because it didnt have permission to put a shortcut on the Start menu - knowing what I was doing I just went to the relevent folder and gave permission for anyone (or thing) to make changes to that folder - "fixing" the problem, but breaking the system security (tho not a very high risk breach :P)

Stick with XP for the moment unless you are testing/evaluating and have another XP machine to fall back to.

David

[skint]

Mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac did i mention that Macs are good?


I've not tried Vista yet, but will try and get an msdn/eval off the desktop team to give it a try.

Dan

Macs are very good for protection against inclement conditions but so are windows which are also good for display - macs have to be opened for this purpose, but that can often offend :shock:

[northwind]

Windows 3.11 for the win!

[600+]

a bit confused with what each version contains.

prices though don't look that bad! I checked on www.microdirect.co.uk

[Grinch]

I'll do the same as did with xp...

Avoid using it till I really have to, as I don't see the point while I have a Linux PC and Linux Laptop. Hopefully there will update my work laptop with it, but that won't be for ages due to the way companies work.

Also If I did want to put it on anything I'll probably need a new pc, stuff that.

[Sudoxe]

a bit confused with what each version contains.

prices though don't look that bad! I checked on www.microdirect.co.uk

That would be the OEM price.

The retail price is 328.99 inc VAT


You could buy a PC for that and put linux/bsd, etc on it.

Dan

[Sudoxe]

Windows 3.11 for the win!

Practically modern! I had/have a copy of Windows/286 on disk somewhere....

Dan

[Grinch]

a bit confused with what each version contains.

prices though don't look that bad! I checked on www.microdirect.co.uk

That would be the OEM price.

The retail price is 328.99 inc VAT


You could buy a PC for that and put linux/bsd, etc on it.

Dan

Or even better... do 4 hours work fixing 1 pc and 3 laptops, get a old PIII 500 with 128 ram laptop as payment, install Xubuntu. Runs like a dream, even the wireless card worked first time.

Even got it running a wireless cracker to penetrate test my wireless.

[northwind]

Practically modern! I had/have a copy of Windows/286 on disk somewhere....


I don't think that'd run on my 48K spectrum though.

[wyntrblue]

i have been using vista at home for over a year, i think its great, at work i use vista and solaris.

like all m$ products it does have its down sides but tbh it is better than xp for what i use my machines for

[Baph]

I'll think about Vista once all the bugs are out of it.

So that means I'll be using Linux forever then...

[Sid Squid]

I just fitted a new window in my kitchen, and a new door too.

HTH

[Iansv]

Will think about it once it hits service pack one....

no real need to update...

oh and mac's are sheiiittte :P

[furrybean]

I just fitted a new window in my kitchen, and a new door too.

HTH

Did you use the Home Edition then?! :roll:

[skint]

I just fitted a new window in my kitchen, and a new door too.

HTH

Hope it was FENSA registered! :)

[kwak zzr]

i'll wait :wink: XP works for me.

[TSM]

Im too busy learning linux

[jonboy99]

a bit confused with what each version contains.

prices though don't look that bad! I checked on www.microdirect.co.uk

I'm surprised how cheap it is - you could buy a motherboard for £30, ebay it, and just pay the vista oem prices.
Have heard the copy protection it's got in it in cripples it. Can't see any benefit as to what it's got over XP to be honest. Would be interested in hearing how users of the beta find it better, rather than the MS hype though.

[philipMac]

Im too busy learning linux

$> man linux
:shock:
8)

[TSM]

Im too busy learning linux

$> man linux
:shock:
8)

Well i had to one day, the company i work for does not have one MS server, nearly all are RHEL or CentOS, it makes things more intresting, saying that all the company apart from the finance office are not even using MSOffice, all openoffice and TB & FF. Nnow i have a good reason to learn it properly and makes me intrested.

[philipMac]

Im too busy learning linux

$> man linux
:shock:
8)

Well i had to one day, the company i work for does not have one MS server, nearly all are RHEL or CentOS, it makes things more intresting, saying that all the company apart from the finance office are not even using MSOffice, all openoffice and TB & FF. Nnow i have a good reason to learn it properly and makes me intrested.

Clever company. I am not a massive fan of Red Hat though. (Or its derivs.)
I am like that too. I will learn... when I have to.

[TSM]

Im too busy learning linux

$> man linux
:shock:
8)

Well i had to one day, the company i work for does not have one MS server, nearly all are RHEL or CentOS, it makes things more intresting, saying that all the company apart from the finance office are not even using MSOffice, all openoffice and TB & FF. Nnow i have a good reason to learn it properly and makes me intrested.

Clever company. I am not a massive fan of Red Hat though. (Or its derivs.)
I am like that too. I will learn... when I have to.

Well distos come down to personal choice, RHEL was the last managers original stuff that was installed a while back an the current manager is CentOS, which i know is a deriv of RHEL, hees been pursuaded to go Slax by his freind, i think we will stay with CentOS as it works fine and is stable and the standard install has nearly every thing we need to work with.

[philipMac]

Well distos come down to personal choice, RHEL was the last managers original stuff that was installed a while back an the current manager is CentOS, which i know is a deriv of RHEL, hees been pursuaded to go Slax by his freind, i think we will stay with CentOS as it works fine and is stable and the standard install has nearly every thing we need to work with.

Their is quite a lot to be said for, if its not broke, dont fix it.
At the same time, no harm in playing with a couple of other distribs. Just to see if your life can be made easier. And lets not kid ourselves. We. Is. Lazy. Bastids.

[SV225]

Whats the difference between XP and vista anyway? As long as XP works I wont be getting vista unless I buy a new computer and it already has it. And, we've got linux at school a which is useless.

[philipMac]

Whats the difference between XP and vista anyway? As long as XP works I wont be getting vista unless I buy a new computer and it already has it. And, we've got linux at school a which is useless.

Vista is up to 45% more translucent than XP. Some are talking 50%, but, I dont believe it can be true.

Nothing can be that translucent.

[Warren]

Whats the difference between XP and vista anyway? As long as XP works I wont be getting vista unless I buy a new computer and it already has it. And, we've got linux at school a which is useless.

Vista is up to 45% more translucent than XP. Some are talking 50%, but, I dont believe it can be true.

Nothing can be that translucent.

what does translucent mean ?

xp works for me at the moment, so ill stick with it unless i really have to change.

[tricky]

I thought the choices where going to be UPVC or hardwood.

[northwind]

Whats the difference between XP and vista anyway? As long as XP works I wont be getting vista unless I buy a new computer and it already has it. And, we've got linux at school a which is useless.

The enthusiasts are getting all excited about Direct X 10 for games... Supposedly more naturally secure too, because more stuff's run in the somethingorother that used to be run in the doodad. Kernel? Something like that.

[philipMac]

Exactly. Its all about the Kernels. And how translucent they are.
Huge amount of translucency involved with Vista.
Almost no krill either. Thus, like northy was saying, the increased natural security.
As opposed to social security.

A lot of XP systems out there are covered in krill, with or without ActiveX controls. And, therein, lay much of the difficulties.

[Baph]

Whats the difference between XP and vista anyway? As long as XP works I wont be getting vista unless I buy a new computer and it already has it. And, we've got linux at school a which is useless.

The enthusiasts are getting all excited about Direct X 10 for games... Supposedly more naturally secure too, because more stuff's run in the somethingorother that used to be run in the doodad. Kernel? Something like that.

What Northy is getting at, is that the ACL's traditionally were handled at user level, these have now been re-factored to the hardware level, and tighter bounds placed on them, meaning security all over the OS is generally tighter.

Also the frameworks have been seriously re-vamped & written how they would of been originally had everyone known about OOP (object dependencies mainly).

I wouldn't say it was translucency, quite the opposite, but that's a term that's probably developed via some media engine somewhere.

The translucent element IMO comes from the fact that Vista shouts at you a lot more when it thinks something dodgy is going on.

I still doubt I'll ever use it, unless the company fork our for it, and we're campaigning for them not to bother using Windows at all. We've already moved our software dependency away from Windows Servers, just need the hangers on in Projects to realise they can do their work without Windows, and we're laughing. Commercial won't mind not paying a licence fee!

[Cloggsy]

I won't be touching Vista for at least 12 month...

Have you seen the amount of 'HotFixes' already :?:

http://www.vistasp1.net/

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[northwind]

What Northy is getting at, is that the ACL's traditionally were handled at user level, these have now been re-factored to the hardware level, and tighter bounds placed on them, meaning security all over the OS is generally tighter.

Also the frameworks have been seriously re-vamped & written how they would of been originally had everyone known about OOP (object dependencies mainly).


That's what I said. Just without the book larnin' and fancifyin'

[philipMac]

That's what I said. Just without the book larnin' and fancifyin'

I was impressed with the way he incorporated in the stuff I made up.

I should work in PR.

How about "Krill's Not Crabs!"

******* crabs.

[Baph]

That's what I said. Just without the book larnin' and fancifyin'

I was impressed with the way he incorporated in the stuff I made up.

I should work in PR.

How about "Krill's Not Crabs!"

b*stard crabs.
I was thinking I hadn't heard the word translucency applied to vista :lol: But then, I don't hear everything, and haven't really paid too much attention to vista. About the only area of vista I'm aware of that could be defined as "translucent" is the damn annoying full screen messages it throws up when the built in firewall complains about various events.

Translucent in that they allow the user more control over what's happening & are more descriptive, certainly. But it'll only serve to get in the way of business users.

That, and those very same error screens already have a vulnerability :?

[Grinch]

Let me see... what have I learn't over the years now?

First there was the commodore 16.
Spectrum plus 2.
BBC Micro.
Archimedes.
DOS.
Machine codes.
GW Basic.
C.
Windows 3.11
Dynix/PTX (UNIX)
bsh
ksh
SQL
Windows 95
NT 3.51
Windows 98
AIX (UNIX)
Windows ME
Windows 2000
html
Pearl
Windows XP
Linux
HP-UX (UNIX)
Solaris (UNIX)
So I think I'll leave Vista... for now.

[philipMac]

Pearl


:oops:

[Grinch]

Pearl


:oops:

What?

[Tomcat]

what are you lot talking about? :lol:

(and no I don't really want you to explain! ) .... it is tooooooooo much! I just want to go on my compoooter and listen to my music, talk nonsense and look on ebay.
:wink:

[Sudoxe]

Pearl


:oops:

What?

That would be perl then?

Dan

[Grinch]

Pearl


:oops:

What?

That would be perl then?

Dan

Oh well... ain't used it in years... crappy anyway, only learned a bit as the PSSP commands (IBM System Parallel) where written in perl.

[Marshall]

I'm going to wait till at least when SP1 comes out and more DX10 games come out. Then ill get an ATI R600 gfx card and a copy of Vista.

[Terence]

Whats the difference between XP and vista anyway?
Try this linky (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/windowsvista/torres_duel.mspx)

[Terence]

I'll think about Vista once all the bugs are out of it...
What bugs?

[timwilky]

You have to laugh at the like of MS releasing new software. It won't impact upon their biggest customers the corporates as they will not be the ones running out to buy it.

My own company has over 10,000 PCs. We need to ensure that whenever new software comes out, it is compatable with what everyone else runs. There is no point running latest office software etc if the rest of the organisation cannot use the files you create etc.

The same with any new o/s the cost of upgrading everyone would be horrendous. We have a rolling upgrade programme where we replace 33% of the inventory annually. But we always install O/S that we can support. That has been fully tested. All known defects rectified etc. We only started using XP last year once SP2 was out. Prior to that it was not considered a supportable O/S.

I assume Vista will be the same. We will set up a small test lab to evaluate it. Then watch what happens with guinea pigs (AKA other companies) for about 2 years and then decide if we can afford to adopt it. How much hardware we would need to replace and most importantly what are the commercial advantages of migration. No commercial advantage why spend the time and money.

[600+]

a bit confused with what each version contains.

prices though don't look that bad! I checked on www.microdirect.co.uk

That would be the OEM price.

The retail price is 328.99 inc VAT


You could buy a PC for that and put linux/bsd, etc on it.

Dan

indeed but according to M$ licencing you can buy a mouse for £2 and that would justify buying OEM

[wyrdness]

a bit confused with what each version contains.

This explains it all:

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/915.gif

[gettin2dizzy]

whats new in vista? just look at mac osx 10.4.8. They seem to have raided the mac bin. Its over 15gb too! i wouldn't want to have to run it on a laptop :?

[Baph]

i wouldn't want to have to run it :?
Well said :D

[gettin2dizzy]

isn't translucent the ability for it to run in the background? the more translucent, the more the OS 'isn't there'. I've recently switched to macs (after being a skeptic) and i'm so pleased not to have to deal with the 'system idle process' that used to cripple windows every time

[Filipe M.]

You were saying? Linky. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6320865.stm) :lol:

[philipMac]

Exactly. Its all about the Kernels. And how translucent they are.
Huge amount of translucency involved with Vista.
Almost no krill either. Thus, like northy was saying, the increased natural security.
As opposed to social security.

A lot of XP systems out there are covered in krill, with or without ActiveX controls. And, therein, lay much of the difficulties.

Ok. I am starting to feel bad now. Translucent... I just made that up. And krill. I made all of the above up, completely. I just wanted to make up the most nonsensical Microsoft double market speak that I could imagine.
None of it has any basis in fact, it's not even grammatically correct.


Oh man. See what happens when you try to be funny Phil??? SEE???

[Law]

Exactly. Its all about the Kernels. And how translucent they are.
Huge amount of translucency involved with Vista.
Almost no krill either. Thus, like northy was saying, the increased natural security.
As opposed to social security.

A lot of XP systems out there are covered in krill, with or without ActiveX controls. And, therein, lay much of the difficulties.

Ok. I am starting to feel bad now. Translucent... I just made that up. And krill. I made all of the above up, completely. I just wanted to make up the most nonsensical Microsoft double market speak that I could imagine.
None of it has any basis in fact, it's not even grammatically correct.


Oh man. See what happens when you try to be funny Phil??? SEE???

I don't know that much tech speak so I thought it was true, up to the point it mentioned krill. :lol:

[Grinch]

You were saying? Linky. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6320865.stm) :lol:

Thats funny...

"The exploit scenario would involve the speech recognition feature picking up commands through the microphone such as 'copy', 'delete', 'shutdown', etc. and acting on them," a Microsoft security researcher wrote on the team's official blog.

Some Vista users have already tested the exploit and were able to delete files and empty the trash can so that the documents were not retrievable.

[Terence]

isn't translucent the ability for it to run in the background? the more translucent, the more the OS 'isn't there'. I've recently switched to macs (after being a skeptic) and i'm so pleased not to have to deal with the 'system idle process' that used to cripple windows every time
"Translucency" in Vista is a feature that makes some screen elements slightly see through... see here (http://blogs.netindonesia.net/images/blogs_netindonesia_net/agusrachman/821/o_Aero%20Glass.jpg). Everyting (icons, start menu, etc) is supposed to look polished or glass-like.

As for the system idle process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_idle_process), it doesn't cripple your machine. In fact it's not even a program. It is a permenantly active monitoring tool that measures how much spare CPU time your system has... look in Task Manager and you'll see it uses less than 30k of RAM.

HTH
Terence

[Baph]

"Translucency" in Vista is a feature that makes some screen elements slightly see through... see here (http://blogs.netindonesia.net/images/blogs_netindonesia_net/agusrachman/821/o_Aero%20Glass.jpg). Everyting (icons, start menu, etc) is supposed to look polished or glass-like.
Surely you mean Transparency? Or even Alpha-blending as it was previously known.

Wait, no, take a brown & gone off apple, put a ribbon round it & sell it as a tomato! :?

[Davies]

Avoid Vista until at least SP1

Good point well made :thumbsup:

[Baph]

Avoid Vista

Good point well made :thumbsup:
Agreed :D ;)

[Terence]

Surely you mean Transparency? Or even Alpha-blending as it was previously known.

Wait, no, take a brown & gone off apple, put a ribbon round it & sell it as a tomato! :?
I used the word "translucency" (in quotes mind) because earlier posters had used it. The official "feature" name is Aero Glass. I think it looks nice but it doesn't really add value to the OS