Smooth Riding

[gettin2dizzy]

I went for a beautiful drive today, from
manchester >congleton > cat and fiddle and back > leek > long hill road > buxton > cat and fiddle > through macclesfield > congleton > manchester (about a tank of fuels worth)

it was pretty cold at the top! but worth it. I was trying to make my riding as smooth as possible, but find myself on/off the throttle and flicking through the gears the whole time. I was also finding it difficult to find the right line as i couldn't see the whole corner when entering it. (maybe i just need to get really familiar)

Has anyone got any advice on how to make my riding smoother and generally better?

cheers
http://web.mac.com/robinmckeith/iWeb/manchesterbikers/hosting_files/18-02-07_1427.jpg

[Apophes]

hi m8e

i sometimes ride with a couple of ex-traffic bikers and boy do they make it look so easy

is all down to using your side of the road to its max and carrying speed through the corners

be as relaxed as possible

watch the point where the two curbs meet as a guide to where the corners going

that what they keep telling me :)

[Razor]

Hard to tell from your description if you're smooth or not. Riding with a pillion generally makes you ride smoother.

[gettin2dizzy]

yeah, i ride with a pillion a lot. And the bike feels so much more planted!
i find i end up back on the thottle mid corner. I don't know if 3500 miles on the oe tyres through winter may have squared them off.
It amazes me watching some of these guys on 1000cc il4s driving like lunatics, they look like they've been born to ride. However i did see a ducati overtake right in to the path of a car - i was behind him and even i noticed it!

[Jelster]

Take a ride with the IAM. I think you can have an "assesment" ride FOC and they will give you good feedback. Ask if you can follow one of them for about 15 minutes, follow his lines etc, let the engine do the work not your brakes and you'll get smoother.

Smoothness isn't as easy on a vee twin as it is on an IL4.... My Blade's silky smooth, it's just my riding that f&@#'s it up :)

.

[Alpinestarhero]

I was out the other day, up the A24. On the really twisty bit i just stuck to 3rd or 4th gear, whatever left me at about 5000rpm. This is where I have the most usefull part of the engine (mine restricted, lets not forget) and that made my ridin alot smoother..

Still a slow rider though :(

Matt

[Biker Biggles]

Firstly,never allow yourself to be influenced by riding Gods on Dukes who may just have a premature wish to meet the real God.There's plenty of them about and they look really good until it all goes horribly wrong.
As for being smooth,how about doing a Bikesafe day,and,or some tuition from IAM or similar?There's a vast amount of knowledge to aquire,and the truth is we all learn something new every time we ride.Here's a starter for you.----Ride a familiar bit of road for several miles and try to do it without touching the brakes.This makes you practice forward vision,and anticipate bends and how to plan for them.That will make you smoother without thinking about it.

[gettin2dizzy]

thanks for the repsonses. i think i'll be booking myself on a IAM course as soon as. One thing i struggle with is i feel i can either hang off or countersteer. But by countersteering it puts the bike down whilst leaving me still upright on the bike. I'll check out the bikesafe courses too, although there appear to be none in manchester itself

[fizzwheel]

As others have said, IAM or Bikesafe will help you loads.

What I found made a big difference in my riding, was to get better at reading the road, that way I had more notice of what was coming towards me which meant I had more time to prepare for corners etc. Also by slowing down a little I found I was actually faster as again I had more time.

Pick up that head and look forward down the road. Use things like roadsigns, fence posts, hedges, telegraph poles. Stuff you find at the side of the road like that marks out the path the road is taking so you can quickly workout if your approaching a sequence of bends, how sharp they might be, or if the road is opening out onto a straight etc etc.

[ejohnh]

Just did a no luck search - what's an IAM?
John

[fizzwheel]

IAM = Institue of Adanced Motorcyclist's ( I think )

Do a google you'll find loads about them on the internet

[mattSV]

I did a Bikesafe course about 4 years ago.

Before then, I used to be hard on the brakes, and then hard on the throttle, and often found myself rolling in to a corner thinking 'Oh ****'

The Bikesafe course taught me loads about forward observation, road positioning and better use of brakes/gears/throttle.

There was one section (A272 Petersfield to Meon) that I followed the copper for (about 15-20 miles I think). Along this section, he did not use his brakes once - because he was always in the correct position, in the correct gear and at an appropriate speed (appropriate for the conditions and his/my riding skills, totally inappropriate for the speed limit ;)).

I am tempted to do another one this year just to refresh my skills.

[rich_r]

I'm a new rider also, (done 2500 miles since passing my test Oct and never ridden a bike before) i've found reading Bike magazine for the least few months handy for good (and safe) riding tips. (road position, vanishing point etc etc)

I now hardly use my brakes on the twisty stuff, but use the engine braking instead, since i've started doing this my riding is far smoother and i'm more confident leaning and getting on the power smoothly.

I'm still on the OE 220's rubber and having read a few posts they aint the most confidence inspiring either! Roll on when I can get some Z6's fitted!

[thedonal]

Yeah- I try to drop a gear into corners, so I'm running at about 7-8k revs. Makes it much easier to control the bike on the bend on sharper corners and am slowly getting the lean angle down too. Have yet to really emply counter steer- I understand the principle, but need to work that one in slowly- only a new rider myself....

I think the main thing about it is relaxing- something I still have trouble with sometimes. But relaxing and small adjustments on everything help- whether it's throttle, brakes or steering.

Some of the roadsurfaces are shocking too- makes me really tentative on the roundabouts when the tarmac is desperately pitted.

Reckon I'll be doing BikeSafe this summer- everything helps. Also takes 10% off insurance. Maybe IAM next year.

[chazzyb]

Maybe IAM next year.

Why not this year?:) Best £86 quid I ever spent!

[weazelz]

Just did a no luck search - what's an IAM?
John

http://www.iam.org.uk/

[Jelster]

The "basics" of what's taught are position in the road, hazard perception, gear selection (being in the right one, not how to) and reading the road.

Of all of these, reading the road was probably the most difficult to get to grips with. Vanishing point, where the road goes etc.. They can teach it, but you only really learn it by being out there on your bike.

[thedonal]

Why not this year?:) Best £86 quid I ever spent!

Furry muff! Might do it this year then. I just want to build up a bit of mileage before I start doing more training stuff...

[gettin2dizzy]

thats what i was thinking, but after reading a few write ups - it seems its never too early. If anything better to get in to good habits early than break old bad ones. But regarding the counter steer - do you use this as well as hang off the bike?

[thedonal]

Sheesh- counter steer and hang off the bike? After 1.5 months- no chance! No - I understand how countersteer works- steer outwards (ie straighten the bars a little) and it get's the bike even lower, but not nearly experienced enough to get round corners fast enough to try this!! Plus, it seems like there's probably a bit more involved..

I do already mix it between going down with the bike, and keeping myself upright when leaning the bike down, though hanging off the bike isn't quite the description! I assume this all comes with confidence and a track day lesson or two!

Yeah- I agree about bad habits, but my instructor and examiner also advised about the BikeSafe course that I hang on for 6 months or so before doing it- presumably to get some real experience and used to my bike...

[Baph]

But regarding the counter steer - do you use this as well as hang off the bike?
I wasn't until a few weeks back. I was the same as you said above, hanging off like a monkey, or countersteering like a policeman.

Then I went for a play on twisties that I know very well (A470/A5), and it all came together nicely.

I have mirror extenders on my pointy, and it got to the stage at times where I was hanging off so much I could see my sunglasses in the mirror, screaming at 7k ish, and positively counter-steering. I could probably push the bike harder too, but I'm getting to the point where I need new rubber on it.

It takes time, and patience. Just one variable at a time.

[andyaikido]

thanks for the repsonses. i think i'll be booking myself on a IAM course as soon as. One thing i struggle with is i feel i can either hang off or countersteer. But by countersteering it puts the bike down whilst leaving me still upright on the bike. I'll check out the bikesafe courses too, although there appear to be none in manchester itself

Try dropping your shoulder to the inside of the turn, goes with hanging off really. Probably not entirely neccessary on the road but feels better to me than sitting bolt upright or pushing the bike down supermoto stylee.

[Tomcat]

for my 2p ....

smoothness comes with riding slow and then increasing speed gradually. As in, ride as though you have no brakes! ....... This will initially make you start riding slower probably, but you will learn to listen to and feel your bike, and then you add the brakes. The sv has a cracking shut off, if you ride steady enough, and controlled enough, and if you are not going too fast you should find that in many cases this is enough for most corners.

.... then it starts to fall into place, pick up the speed, and pick up the use of brakes, gently all the way.

I learnt this the hard way in that I nearly ran into the back of a van (the numty turned right without indicating), I hit the brakes, skidded and scared myself silly. It made me afraid of braking, which therefore slowed me right down, but I then realised that I was controlling the bike much better. As my confidence grow, I got back on the brakes, with caution! My riding has improved no end, I hadn't noticed until I had a ride out with a group I rode with early last year, This time I was up with them, but smooth ;) and not trying as hard.

The amount of people I see hanging off, when they are travelling no faster then me, they look exagerated and daft (they are not rossi!), the countersteer is classy and effective .

BTW I was up the cat and fiddle yesterday, parked up in the car like a sado, watching the bikes. It was really interesting to see how differently people approached the corner! PS, every time I heard an sv I would say to other half that sounds nice, then realise its another sv! ;) There was a nasty off down near the Buxton end at about 2.30, hope they were ok :(

[monkey]

Bikesafe is well worth it. You'll learn loads and have a good day out. The boys in blue will give you an honest opinion on your riding.

Countersteering is something you already do! Above 5-10 mph a bike will not turn a corner unless the front wheel is pointed slightly in the OPPOSITE direction to where you want to go. Trust me. By leaning the bike alone this is what happens, that's probably why people tell you to relax and not grip the bars too much as it would cauce them to stay straight.

Try gently pushing with your left hand and pulling with your right when you go round a left hander ar the other way round. Obviously find a nice quiet corner etc. and be safe. You can even try it on a straight road. I think the old bill teach you this for getting round objects in the road fast. If you've never tried it you'll be amazed. The bike turns instantly.

P.S. When I done bikesafe it cost me £30 and I saved £60 on my insurance!

:D

[thedonal]

Yeeps Teriyaki- you're absolutely right! Never thought of it that way! Relaxaing is something that I'm still learning to do (in every walk of life!) but does clearly help on roads. Long rideouts clearly seem to help the new biker too (see my post http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=84144)

With Bikesafe and IAM, do they cumulatively affect your insurance- ie 10% plus 20% (so I've head) for IAM=30% off insurance, or do you just peak at 20% off?

[monkey]

Don't know but my current insurers don't actually offer discount for bikesafe. They all do seem to ask about IAM however. I'm planning to join IAM and get it!

Something I find that really improves my ride (If it's gonna be a fast one) is earplugs. I might have a noisy lid but the wind and exhaust noise (Blue flame) really seem to get to me and put me off. Strange.

Just in from my first ride this year! Bit scary. Came home after 20 miles cos I went for petrol and checked the chain and it was dry as a bone. :shock:

Have fun and be smooth.

:)

[thedonal]

You too, dud!

I know I'll be smooth as hell come Friday Night in town!! :smt045

It's funny- the wind noise bothers me sometimes, but not others, and if I can get my lid fully shut without the mist rising, it'll be even better!!!

[monkey]

You too, dud!

It's funny- the wind noise bothers me sometimes, but not others, and if I can get my lid fully shut without the mist rising, it'll be even better!!!

Try fog city inserts, they're excellent. Although I have the one that changes colour in the sun and at night it seems to blur lights. Don't know if the clear one would do that.

;)

[ejohnh]

Sheesh- counter steer and hang off the bike? After 1.5 months- no chance! No - I understand how countersteer works- steer outwards (ie straighten the bars a little) and it get's the bike even lower, but not nearly experienced enough to get round corners fast enough to try this!! Plus, it seems like there's probably a bit more involved..

I do already mix it between going down with the bike, and keeping myself upright when leaning the bike down, though hanging off the bike isn't quite the description! I assume this all comes with confidence and a track day lesson or two!

Yeah- I agree about bad habits, but my instructor and examiner also advised about the BikeSafe course that I hang on for 6 months or so before doing it- presumably to get some real experience and used to my bike...

I went on my first long rideout with WRC on sunday. I did about 250 miles. I found that to get round some bends I had to counter steer. Seems like it is the quickest way for me to get into a corner. I certainly learnt a lot from that ride.
John

[Jelster]

smoothness comes with riding slow and then increasing speed gradually. As in, ride as though you have no brakes! ....... This will initially make you start riding slower probably, but you will learn to listen to and feel your bike, and then you add the brakes.

I have to say that this is good advice. The IAM really do go on about being in the "right" gear. That means one that will give you good acceleration AND and provide a good dose of engine braking.

I was out with a mate on Sunday and we took turns of leading, it was quite clear that both of us were hardly touching our brakes, it was all about getting yourself settled before the bend (right gear, good road position etc), going into the bend with lots of confidence and winding the power on as you come out.

You don't need to be hanging off a bike on the road; have you ever seen a copper with his knee down ? :)

Shifting bodyweight helps, but the whole idea of hanging off the bike is so that you can keep it as upright as possible so you get maximum grip. Unless you're on some pretty decent road tyres this is fairly irrelevant.

Good (fast) road riders do shift weight but don't really hang off. I sometimes do it in the summer when trying to get my knee down when in the Alps or somewhere, but over here, on our roads, at this time of year, is an accident waiting to happen... (IMPO of course).

.

[Tomcat]

You don't need to be hanging off a bike on the road; have you ever seen a copper with his knee down ? :)

Shifting bodyweight helps, but the whole idea of hanging off the bike is so that you can keep it as upright as possible so you get maximum grip. Unless you're on some pretty decent road tyres this is fairly irrelevant.

Good (fast) road riders do shift weight but don't really hang off. I sometimes do it in the summer when trying to get my knee down when in the Alps or somewhere, but over here, on our roads, at this time of year, is an accident waiting to happen... (IMPO of course).

.

Yes, I don't really get this knee down stuff on roads. OK, Its showy, but if you riding slow you look a numbty with your knee OUT, and if you going THAT quick you need to be on a track. I like to see (and try and do!) classy, controlled riding, with effortless speed (if required!) not flashy 'look at me' nonsense
:)

[Grinch]

Take out a pillion... it will teach you how to use the power you have better, and everytime they heatbutt you know your not smooth enough on the throttle. I used to go on rides with GSXR6's, ZX6's, Thundercats, and ZX7's and still keep-up even though me and Jax where both on the SV. Its all about planning ahead. Don't go in front, watch the other riders lines and learn from it to improve yours.

[mac608]

Dizzy , here's your nearest group.

http://www.mcr500.org.uk/

Did my test with them years ago. Good bunch, and I did a bikesafe with them as well, staring from Macc and into wildest Cheshire. It was quite a laugh having a fully liveried police bike feet behind you, cars would suddenly decide that perhaps the white line wasn't the best place to be.

I'm sad to see that the IL4s who treat the Cat as there own racetrack haven't changed. Its the fact that lots of these riders don't give a stuff for other road users, two wheels or four that I do not use the Cat. Much prefer Long Hill anyway, much less police presence.

[Jelster]

I'm sad to see that the IL4s who treat the Cat as there own racetrack haven't changed. Its the fact that lots of these riders don't give a stuff for other road users,

Well I see guys on twins doing it too, Ducati's, Aprilias etc. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride that makes you a ****....

[mac608]

Perhaps I should put my remark about IL4s into context.

I have ridden the Cat once in the past 8 years - (was it) the AR04 ride? Prior to that I did ride the Cat on a regular basis, and I was riding an inline four in those days. V twins weren't very common then.

And I'll agree its the rider not the bike.