14 stone 8 year old

[Viney]

http://itn.co.uk/news/b905b9530ba87ae237065d23f28aa7b0.html

They want to take him in to care for his own health. Is it child cruelty? Are the parents to blame? Should he be taken into care?

[Cloggsy]

http://itn.co.uk/news/b905b9530ba87ae237065d23f28aa7b0.html

They want to take him in to care for his own health. Is it child cruelty? Are the parents to blame? Should he be taken into care?

Yes the parent (single parent manic-depressive mother,) is to blame, she is feeding him after all...

Yes, it is child cruelty...

No, he shouldn't get taken into care...

[Nutkins]

Yes, the parents are to blame because they are responsible for his up-bringing. The child is just that, a child and needs guidance. I don't think it's cruelty, I think it's spoiling him that's wrong. All this summounts to is weak parents giving into a whinging kid and not saying "No".

And don't anyone give me the "He may be fat because it's glandular" crap, he's fat because he's a greedy little sod.

He needs guidance and so do his parents, at their expense.

[Law]

Yeah, I flicked over channels last night and saw that kid in his pants. :puker:

Seriously, Yeah, his mum is to blame for allowing him to get to that size but so long as he's losing weight and his mum is actually helping with the weoght loss there's no reason why he should be taken into care.

[SoulKiss]

I saw another new article on TV about this - had a bunch of kids being taught about "nutrition".

WTF????

Here you have 8-10 year olds having the kind of conversations anorexic secretaries have, with encyclopedic knowlege of the amount of salt in this and fat in that.

Educate them about good food - definately, but its up to the parent to control what they eat and to cook good quality food for them.

The BIG problem in my view is that the current generation of parent, which would be people about my age, are useless at being parents, being educated in parenting by TV, books and the like, instead of by their OWN parents, which can be seen by the number of people around my age who are grandparents.

David

[ArtyLady]

I saw the program and felt really sorry for the family. The mother has a disability, and has found it very difficult to be strong and often gives in to his constant demands.

Having brought up a demanding difficult disabled child myself, I know exactly how hard this is. It is often impossible to have much control over these kids. I had very little support despite often pleading for it - just endless meetings.

The way I see it the boy obviously has some sort of eating disorder as he has been constantly hungry since he was born apparently (some may call it greedy but that is just insulting IMO). The mother was not excessively overweight and her daughter was slim.

As I understand it a disabled person is entitled to an assessment of their needs by Social services to help them live independently and the right support to bring up her child in whatever form it is needed. (It shouldnt be down to the Grandmother to take the strain).

If that boy gets taken in to care then his life and the family's will torn apart, even more than it is now, and IMO social services will have failed yet again in their duty to do the right thing.

[Rocket]

Loved the bit where his sponger of a mother claimed it was not her fault. Granny was dressing the fat kid ready for school whilst her lazy daughter was skiving in bed smoking. Get the lad put into care. It's the only way to help him as his mother will not admit it is her fault.

[Nutkins]

When did this boy become "disabled"? Demanding, yes, but he isn't disabled.

[hovis]

i did not see the program, but have seen the news, all kids would be that size if they had there own way

its totaly the mothers fault for giving in to him & letting him get that big.

it would be sad to take him into care .......but he needs to start to lose the weight b4 its too late & thats not going to happen where he is

[ArtyLady]

Not disabled in the stereotypical sense, but he obviously has an eating disorder, and the mother suffers depression. Surely both of these are disabilities?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/HealthAndSupport/Disabledparents/DG_10037905

[Nutkins]

Not disabled in the stereotypical sense, but he obviously has an eating disorder, and the mother suffers depression. Surely both of these are disabilities?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/HealthAndSupport/Disabledparents/DG_10037905

Totally agree with your link, especially:

Article 8: the right to respect for private and family life - the state can only interfere in family life if it is necessary for the protection of others, for example, children

Plus, no insult was intended when I called him greedy because that is what he is. He has a strong desire for food, ie. greedy.

[hovis]

Not disabled in the stereotypical sense, but he obviously has an eating disorder, and the mother suffers depression. Surely both of these are disabilities?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/HealthAndSupport/Disabledparents/DG_10037905

but..... is it not his mothers fault he has a eating disorder?

[Filipe M.]

but..... is it not his mothers fault he has a eating disorder?

It might be, it might not be. And then again, it may be her indirect fault. There is no 100% correct answer.

And remember this, it's always easier to sort out other people's lives.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Given the government almost always destroys the life of any kid it looks after, I'd never say care is the way to go.

[Kate]

Given the government almost always destroys the life of any kid it looks after, I'd never say care is the way to go.
Not necessarily. I know a few people who have been in care and it helped them. Tbh, we only really hear about the bad cases in the press. Good cases just aren't news.

Whether or not the kid is disabled (I personally don't think so), the mother obviously can't cope with the boy who refuses to eat anything but crap and the mother isn't prepared to stand up to him. Can going into care be any worse than the present?

[ArtyLady]

Not necessarily. I know a few people who have been in care and it helped them. Tbh, we only really hear about the bad cases in the press. Good cases just aren't news.

Whether or not the kid is disabled (I personally don't think so), the mother obviously can't cope with the boy who refuses to eat anything but crap and the mother isn't prepared to stand up to him. Can going into care be any worse than the present?

Of course those who are deliberately abused/neglected are definately better off in care.

But regarding this boy, I think he is disabled -
a) by the eating disorder/voracious appetite for junk food, and
b) by the amount of weight he is now carrying.

I disagree that the mum isnt prepared to stand up to him, she cant stand up to him because she has depression. Depression is a disability, but its a hidden disability and people cant see it, dont understand it, wont tolerate people not "pulling themselves together", and IMO she should have been assessed for her disability and supported in bringing up her children so this situation could have been avoided.

Its not easy, as I have said before, I have experienced a difficult child myself, and there were many many times I gave in due to unbearable pressure.

[hovis]

he is not disabled.....he is just fat/overweight. if his mother did not feed him so much, he would not be in this state.

[Filipe M.]

he is not disabled.....he is just fat/overweight. if his mother did not feed him so much, he would not be in this state.

Don't try to understand this, Hovi5. Really.

[ArtyLady]

Don't try to understand this, Hovi5. Really.

Thanks Filipe :rolleyes:

I give up now ;)

[hovis]

Don't try to understand this, Hovi5. Really.

the trouble is i do understand................ its just people dont like the truth

quote "Connor weighed 15 stone 8lb - four times the weight of a healthy child of his age - before Christmas but has lost 1 stone 7lb since beginning an intensive exercise regime and swapping junk food for healthy alternatives two months ago."

so there we have it ....since he has stoped eating the crap & getting exercise , he is losing weight.

this should have happened a long time ago.

[Filipe M.]

the trouble is i do understand................ its just people dont like the truth

quote "Connor weighed 15 stone 8lb - four times the weight of a healthy child of his age - before Christmas but has lost 1 stone 7lb since beginning an intensive exercise regime and swapping junk food for healthy alternatives two months ago."

so there we have it ....since he has stoped eating the crap & getting exercise , he is losing weight.

this should have happened a long time ago.

Yup, then why don't they put the child under your care? If you know exactly what should be done...

[hovis]

good idea

if his mother cant cope........... he should be looked after else where

but as it says in the article ....he is now losing weight........ but this should have been done years ago

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Of course those who are deliberately abused/neglected are definately better off in care.

You sure?

If i remember correctly, 2 years after kids leave care, on average:

50% are unemployed
30% are homless
25% are single mothers/pregnant.

Not to mention those who are abused in care, and those who go onto/carry on criminal activity. Sure there are some rotten parents out there, but compared to what the kids can be subjected to in care alot are still better off at home.

There's a reason why Britain got rated worst country in the western world for kids.

[kitkat]

being a lone parent is very hard. being a lone parent with difficult child is harder. lone parent suffering from depression with difficult child must be horrendous. lone parent suffering from depression with difficult child having had their life plastered all over papers, tv and everyone thinking they know better must be a nightmare. has prader willi syndrom (unsure of spelling) been thought about? taking child into care is not the right answer in this case. imo

[Baph]

You sure?

If i remember correctly, 2 years after kids leave care, on average:

50% are unemployed
30% are homless
25% are single mothers/pregnant.

Not to mention those who are abused in care, and those who go onto/carry on criminal activity. Sure there are some rotten parents out there, but compared to what the kids can be subjected to in care alot are still better off at home.

There's a reason why Britain got rated worst country in the western world for kids.

Good arguement, but what are the figures for kids, at the same age, who aren't ever in care in the first place? The subject is obviously the care aspect. How many kids of the same age are unemployed? How many still live with parents? How many are parents? How many are single (surely grouping relationship status with pregnancy status is a little presumptious)?

Back to the issue at hand, apparently his mother has difficulties being strict about his wants etc. THIS is where the support system failed. It's already been done, now they want to make up for that mistake.

Is it right that he looses weight? Without doubt, for health reasons.

Is it right that he is taken away from his immediate family? Well, the child may benefit more by being removed from the situation, but also surely his sister, and mother would suffer. There has to be a balance as to what is best for everyone.

My personal thoughts are that the mother should be given support in helping her child loose weight, not punished for the failings of a support system that should of really noticed before it got anywhere near this stage.

Children have regular health checkups for a number of reasons. Why was nothing flagged up before?

EDIT: Kitkat, IMO, this situation doesn't fully support a diagnosis of PWS, most of the symptoms are absent. Well, more specifically, nothing has been published in the media that would point to PWS. PWS is also usually caught early on, whilst the child is still getting nutrition from breast/bottle milk.

[Nutkins]

Children have regular health checkups for a number of reasons. Why was nothing flagged up before?

Most children would have health check-ups through their years, but this would rely on a parent or guardian actually taking this child in the first place.

This is not to say this mother hasn't, but more along the lines that there are some ignorant people out there who just don't know any better. If social services don't get involved now and something horrible happened to this kid in the future then they'd still be at fault. In this case they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Baph]

Most children would have health check-ups through their years, but this would rely on a parent or guardian actually taking this child in the first place.
Our health visitors have always turned up on the doorstep (after sending a letter to say they'd be there & when).

Nothing in the news indicates that health checkups haven't happened. Everything however, points at the mother being wrong. I disagree with that.

Social services can get involved without removing the child into care.

[SoulKiss]

Has always made me wonder that you need a license for a dog, but anyone can drop a sprog if they want...........

Maybe there should be a course you need to go on in order to get a licence, and that it should be means tested too......

[weazelz]

Has always made me wonder that you need a license for a dog, but anyone can drop a sprog if they want...........

Maybe there should be a course you need to go on in order to get a licence, and that it should be means tested too......

should teenagers have to wear L-plates until the pass their Breeding License ?

[Born again]

Why should the mother be given support for her child to loose weight, after all being that over weight is a lack of disipline and self control. Is the tax payer to pick up the tab to get him thin, we have already payed to get him fat. Eat less loose weight, there are not many fat people in a famine.

[Sudoxe]

should teenagers have to wear L-plates until the pass their Breeding License ?

No that would be silly. We should just have them neutered.

[Jools'SV Now]

You sure?

If i remember correctly, 2 years after kids leave care, on average:

50% are unemployed
30% are homless
25% are single mothers/pregnant.



Less than the national average for kids from sink estates then.

"kid refuses to eat anything but crap food"
there's your solution then, serve him good food, he doesn't eat it, he loses weight.:smt041
His mum isn't ill, she's stupid and weak.

Prob went to the doc feeling a bit down and was told she had 'depression'

Let's face it, you birds are depressed for 2 weeks of the month anyway, so it's a 50:50 chance for half the population at any one time, let alone a single parent on a crappy council estate. Doctor played the percentages and 'diagnosed' depression.
Gives the mum a handy excuse for anything she doesn't want to take responsibility for.

Classic american trisha style show called Jenny Jones had a bunch of dump truck sized kids, some as yound as 3.
All the mums kept saying, he likes pizza, he likes fries, he likes fried chicken, he likes burgers etc
Someone in the audience asked "how does he know?"

Penny finally dropped: because you fed him it:rant:

It's another classic case of natural selection, the stupid die young, hopefully before they get a chance to have any kids themselves. Only most of them can't work out the instructions to use a :safe: so the rest of society pays for their stupidity.

take him into care? no, that is not the solution
Take away the deep fat fryer - and take the mum round the supermarket and show her what to buy and cook....that's the solution
She's no doubt at home all day, so she's got plenty of time to sort a simple meal for an 8 yr old.....or does trisha and deal or no deal take priority? probably, afterall, she's depressed you know:-({|=

[Filipe M.]

His mum isn't ill, she's stupid and weak.

Prob went to the doc feeling a bit down and was told she had 'depression'

Let's face it, you birds are depressed for 2 weeks of the month anyway, so it's a 50:50 chance for half the population at any one time, let alone a single parent on a crappy council estate. Doctor played the percentages and 'diagnosed' depression.
Gives the mum a handy excuse for anything she doesn't want to take responsibility for.

Great way to put it, really. Keep it up.

[sarah]

Great way to put it, really. Keep it up.

you took the words right out of my mouth!

[Stu]

i did not see the program, but have seen the news, all kids would be that size if they had there own way

its totaly the mothers fault for giving in to him & letting him get that big.

it would be sad to take him into care .......but he needs to start to lose the weight b4 its too late & thats not going to happen where he is
Sorry but that is a right bit of bollox :lol: I know a lot of kids that have to be forced to eat.

Other than that, carry on :D

[ArtyLady]

His mum isn't ill, she's stupid and weak.

Prob went to the doc feeling a bit down and was told she had 'depression'

Let's face it, you birds are depressed for 2 weeks of the month anyway, so it's a 50:50 chance for half the population at any one time, let alone a single parent on a crappy council estate. Doctor played the percentages and 'diagnosed' depression.
Gives the mum a handy excuse for anything she doesn't want to take responsibility for.It's another classic case of natural selection, the stupid die young, hopefully before they get a chance to have any kids themselves. Only most of them can't work out the instructions to use a :safe: so the rest of society pays for their stupidity.

take him into care? no, that is not the solution
Take away the deep fat fryer - and take the mum round the supermarket and show her what to buy and cook....that's the solution
She's no doubt at home all day, so she's got plenty of time to sort a simple meal for an 8 yr old.....or does trisha and deal or no deal take priority? probably, afterall, she's depressed you know:-({|=

MY GOD, I hope you and yours never suffer from a Mental Health problem, or a problem child, you obviously dont know the first thing about it do you.

I find your post extremely offensive btw

[Baph]

Another thread that cuts close to the bone I see, please all (and I'm mainly speaking to myself here!) keep it clean & on topic before the mods are forced to close another thread I see as healthy debate :)

That out of the way... Jool's, your opinion is rather extreme. There has been nothing published in the media to that extent. Some would even consider those views as slanderous. However, it's your opinion & IMO you're entitled to it.

IMO, 'depression' is a tricky subject. There can be so so many causes for it. Most of which aren't tangable. Does this mean that the condition doesn't exist? Does it mean it's only a direct result of certain environmental factors (eg, a period - applies to women only, I know, but that was the example given, or the location you bring your children up)?

Personally, I believe depression is a result of the combination of nature vs nurture. Some people are born with the inability to form certain pathways (and therefore certain chemicals) in the brain, and this affects feelings, and ultimately behaviour. Other people, don't show the same physical signs.

Can anyone prove that this woman is not subject to those issues (both biological & environmental)? I don't think so. Not unless you have access to brain scanning equipment anyway.

As for the GP 'playing the odds,' I feel that's a very unfair judgement on the entire profession, but that's going away from the topic at hand.

Back to the topic:
take him into care? no, that is not the solution
Take away the deep fat fryer - and take the mum round the supermarket and show her what to buy and cook....that's the solution
A very good proposition. Yes the tax payers would have to pay a little (as someone else has voiced concerns about). However, this cost would be minimised.

That's probably the best solution I can think of for the situation, but then, I don't have to think of a solution, and have my hands tied by all the red tape that comes with that responsability.

Do we really have the right, as tax payers, to decide where & how that money is spent? Who's to say this child won't become the next Einstein, if given the chance? Who are we to play god with the life of a child?

So yes, the mother should have support. I also feel that the child shouldn't be taken away from his family. That act alone could do more mental damage than the child being overwieght.

[hovis]

i did not see the program, but have seen the news, all kids would be that size if they had there own way

its totaly the mothers fault for giving in to him & letting him get that big.

it would be sad to take him into care .......but he needs to start to lose the weight b4 its too late & thats not going to happen where he is

Sorry but that is a right bit of bollox :lol: I know a lot of kids that have to be forced to eat.

Other than that, carry on :D

what i meant was, that they would just eat sweets,crisps,ice cream,chololate,fizzy pop etc etc

[Jools'SV Now]

Great way to put it, really. Keep it up.

Play the superiority card all you like. It often just takes one voice of light in the darkness in order for people to see sense
Like all those well educated folk who pondered for years about how flat the earth was and where the edge might be.

The truth is often not what you're led to believe and can often offend.

Is she stupid? Doubt we're looking a nasa scientist levels of IQ
Is she weak? Can't say no to her own 8 yr old son
Are far too many people, including children, in this country popping anti depressants because they're seen as a cure-all fix, when it can't be called a virus? I think you'll find the answer is yes.

Apologies to those that find real life truths offensive, but truths they are.

What do you mean, the earth goes round the sun?!

[Filipe M.]

Play the superiority card all you like and some more blah blah blah.

Well, I'm not the one playing the superiority card here. You seem to be, since you seem to know all the truth. I merely told you to keep it up like that. One day that truth of yours might slap you where you least expect it.

Eppur si muove...

[hovis]

=D>

"kid refuses to eat anything but crap food"
there's your solution then, serve him good food, he doesn't eat it, he loses weight.:smt041
His mum isn't ill, she's stupid and weak.

It's another classic case of natural selection, the stupid die young, hopefully before they get a chance to have any kids themselves. Only most of them can't work out the instructions to use a :safe: so the rest of society pays for their stupidity.

take him into care? no, that is not the solution
Take away the deep fat fryer - and take the mum round the supermarket and show her what to buy and cook....that's the solution
She's no doubt at home all day, so she's got plenty of time to sort a simple meal for an 8 yr old.....or does trisha and deal or no deal take priority? probably, afterall, she's depressed you know:-({|=


:smt045 :winner:

[Baph]

The truth is often not what you're led to believe and can often offend.

Is she stupid? Doubt we're looking a nasa scientist levels of IQ
Is she weak? Can't say no to her own 8 yr old son
Are far too many people, including children, in this country popping anti depressants because they're seen as a cure-all fix, when it can't be called a virus? I think you'll find the answer is yes.

Apologies to those that find real life truths offensive, but truths they are.
If your opinion of the situation was in fact the truth, then perhaps you might have a point. Your opinion on the situation is obviously formed from your belief of what is happening behind the situation. I'd love for you to post links to anything published by any media company, the police, the family, or any government body that backs up your explaination of the situation.

If someone doesn't have the IQ level of a NASA scientist, does this make them "stupid"? I know my IQ isn't that level, therefore obviously I'm stupid too. I assume your IQ is higher than mine (I dont know anyone who geniunely considers themselves to be stupid).

Saying "no" to a child isn't always cut & dry. I assume you don't have kids, otherwise you'd know this all too well. This situation is far more complex than simply saying "no" anyway.

The anti-depressants... Well. A subject that is very VERY close to my heart. I'm not going to go into too much detail on the org, but my 7yr old neice is on anti-depressants, and I know the reasons why. That doesn't make me agree with it. That's where the conversation on that stops.

Does anything in the media say this child is on anti-depressants? I haven't seen anything. The mother, yes, but the child? So where did that comment come from?

As for your opinions of the events being truths, I suppose you know the people involved personally? If not, how the **** can you possibly say it's a truth? Surely it's an assumption.

If they were truths, what does it matter? The situation still needs resolving for the reasons I posted before.

Hovi5, seriously, it's more complex than all that. It's not a simple "eat less weigh less" situation.

[Blue_SV650S]

Who cares? How does this sort of carp make the news anyway? :roll:

At least the mother admitted she was in over her head and sought the authorities. Why does this sort of thing have to 'go public'?? Its no one else's business! :smt110

[Jools'SV Now]

The 'truth' bit is regarding it not being what people want to hear.....

People want there to be a magic cure for everything, be it an explaination, someone/thing to blame, some govt department to sort it or a pill.

Well life isn't like that and is often far more simple - not more complicated.

Baph, I assume you're not saying she's intellegent, strong and more people should be on anti-depressants?????:smt101

I base my opinion on life experience, I don't need to have met this woman to form the opinion that she's not the sharpest tool in the box: What shall I feed my clinically obese child?, I know, pizza and chips. Genius obviously, my mistake:rolleyes:

Did I say I was any more clever than any of you? Nope, it just suited you to assume it in order to pick an argument.
Did I say this kid was on anti-depressants? nope. It's a general comment that too many people, including kids are on them.
The stats are horrific, something daft like 10% of school age kids are on 'em. Will research and get a more accurate figure for you if you like, but the figure is astounding.

Not commenting further, opinion duly expressed. please don't take things so personally. M'kay
:smt008

[Baph]

The 'truth' bit is regarding it not being what people want to hear.....

Agreed. However, the truth of this situation, I can cope with ;)


Baph, I assume you're not saying she's intellegent, strong and more people should be on anti-depressants?????:smt101

Nope, I'm not. But then, I'm not saying that she's stupid, weak & has no reason to be on anti-depressants either.

I base my opinion on life experience, I don't need to have met this woman to form the opinion that she's not the sharpest tool in the box: What shall I feed my clinically obese child?, I know, pizza and chips. Genius obviously, my mistake:rolleyes:

So all your assumptions are based on your own experience, as I said, and don't actually reflect this situation in any real way. Or rather, we don't know they do.

Did I say I was any more clever than any of you? Nope, it just suited you to assume it in order to pick an argument.

I wasn't picking an argument, I was responding with my thoughts on your post, but I'll get to that in more detail in a minute.

Did I say this kid was on anti-depressants? nope. It's a general comment that too many people, including kids are on them.
The stats are horrific, something daft like 10% of school age kids are on 'em. Will research and get a more accurate figure for you if you like, but the figure is astounding.

If people need them, they need them, there really isn't an option in the majority of cases of depression. Anti-depressants carry enough side effects to discourage doctors from issuing them without just cause. The medical profession doesn't need to influence this, but does so, negatively!

Personally, I feel that depression is a sign of the times. Call it genetic mutations across generations, call it social factors of modern life if you like, but more people are depressed now than were in the past. Only stands to rights that more kids will be affected than before too. Add the pressure of constant exams etc that weren't present years ago, and I'm shocked by the stats too. I'm shocked it's not a higher percentage!

Not commenting further, opinion duly expressed. please don't take things so personally. M'kay
:smt008
That's just the problem. The issues raised by this one news story are close to the bone for a lot of people, most of whom have simply refused to comment on them because it literally makes their blood boil. I haven't spoken about this thread to many org'ers outside of the forum, but the ones that I have, I'm comfortable making that generalisation.

Back to the topic, like I previously said, the solution you mentionned is about the best one I can think of too. However, some of your views, as I previously posted, are a little extreme. IMO, that's fair game for debate, and I can only debate properly when I dont take things personally, so don't worry on that score :)

EDIT: Years back I used to get into lexical arguements, just for the hell of it. That kind of ensured that my wording was strict when debating, which is why it can come across that my mood is different to what it actually is.

[ArtyLady]

His mum isn't ill, she's stupid and weak.



Know her personally do you?

You might learn something here http://depression.about.com/cs/brainchem101/f/whatcausesdep.htm

[Viney]

No that would be silly. We should just have them neutered.
:lol: