View Full Version : Calling all engineers
gettin2dizzy
08-03-07, 07:14 PM
I noticed the other day that there are loads of engineers on here (engineers are the most likely profession to crash a bike apparently). I'm studying at Manchester Uni at the mo and looking for a placement for summer in either aerospace/mechanical engineering. Would anyone be able to help me out with an address or anything else? Lunchtime rideouts would be ace!
Thanks
Robin :)
(i've got no preference of location whatsoever)
on yer bike
08-03-07, 07:26 PM
Hey m8, I'm in the same boat so to speak, studying mechanical engineering at heriot watt uni, but also looking for a summer placement somewhere in the engineering field. so if anyone knows of anything suitable, let us know.
furrybean
08-03-07, 08:10 PM
If your looking for heavy plant I could give you my work address in a Quarry? I'm not in the mechanical side, I'm electrical. Far cleaner!!!
socommk23
09-03-07, 01:17 AM
bloody sparkies! never get their hands dirty! lol
bloody sparkies! never get their hands dirty! lol
While us PC Engineers have to navigate through pc cases and cut our hands on everything, thats a real mans profession :D
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 07:00 AM
Shame most 'engineers' are just technicians. Speaking of which....
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Engineer-Status/ (http://forums.sv650.org/Engineer-Status/)
rictus01
09-03-07, 07:05 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but what's an Engineer? I've got a bit of paper somewhere (or did have) saying I'm one, but in truth I'd just call myself a mechanic, it's just these days it seems if people aren't Engineers they're technicians and the two terms seem to be interchangable
Vehicle technician/engineer
PC technician/engineer
or even and I heard this from a mate
Installation technician/engineer (flat-pak kitchen fitter)
See what I mean :scratch:
Cheers Mark.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 07:13 AM
Engineers are professionals - they have an engineering degree.
rictus01
09-03-07, 07:15 AM
Engineers are professionals - they have an engineering degree.
Ahh, you mean an ex-polly, got you.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 07:23 AM
Ahh, you mean an ex-polly, got you.
Umm, no. Pretend universities are lowering the bar somewhat by handing degrees over to people who'd otherwise never get one, but certainly flat pack kitchen fitters/mechanics etc aren't engineers.
rictus01
09-03-07, 07:37 AM
Oh I don't know, I sat on several interview panels a couple of years back and even some of the better universities* didn't seem to turn out any better muppets than the rest.
So if you're Only an Engineer if you have degree, then what's an Engineering apprentaship for ?
(Oh and someone had better let the REME know they got it wrong).
*so Iwas told
Cheers Mark.
ivantate
09-03-07, 07:41 AM
I am definately an Engineer;
I have an Engineering degree
I have CEng after my name (sometimes)
I cant sing
I have crashed my bike
I work in a factory that is about to be closed down
I dont pay anyone to do anything I can do myself even if i have no time to do it,
and best of all I finish work at 1 on a friday.
Reckless Rat
09-03-07, 08:22 AM
I work in a factory that is about to be closed down.
Along with the p.poor money we get outstanding job security to compensate!
(closing Summer '07)
Just been filling in an application for a job that asks for references from last two employers... none of my previous employers are still in business/in the UK #-o
RR
Carsick
09-03-07, 08:26 AM
I think one of the main definitions of Engineer is that you design stuff as part of your job.
Umm, no. Pretend universities are lowering the bar somewhat by handing degrees over to people who'd otherwise never get one, but certainly flat pack kitchen fitters/mechanics etc aren't engineers.
In my experience, people (some not all) who graduated from "proper" Universities do seem to have somewhat of an superiority complex over those who graduated from the ex Polytechnics.
And yes I went to a Polytechnic, by choice, having turned down a place at a "proper" University.
I don't really have an Engineering degree (Engineering Software). Although I do have qualifications in electrical and motor vehicle engineering. I have made parts for bikes and cars when originals where not available. I have been complemented on the standard of my engineering drawings when I have had to get parts machined by engineering firms.
I have known people with mech eng degrees from "proper" Universities who I wouldn't trust to start my lawnmower.
I can understand why people get upset though when people start calling bin men "refuse disposal engineers" etc.
I am definately an Engineer;
I have an Engineering degree
I have CEng after my name (sometimes)
I cant sing
I have crashed my bike
I work in a factory that is about to be closed down
I dont pay anyone to do anything I can do myself even if i have no time to do it,
and best of all I finish work at 1 on a friday.
Do you have a sense of fashion?
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 09:23 AM
Oh I don't know, I sat on several interview panels a couple of years back and even some of the better universities* didn't seem to turn out any better muppets than the rest.
So if you're Only an Engineer if you have degree, then what's an Engineering apprentaship for ?
(Oh and someone had better let the REME know they got it wrong).
*so Iwas told
Cheers Mark.
Fancy seeing if we can get a woefully underqualified school matron to operate on your knee? Thought not.
You don't call nurses doctors when they're not, you dont call spanner monkeys engineers when they're not. Just because you've met a few qualified engineers that still happened to be muppets doesn't change anything because lets face it, some doctors are idiots too.
Fancy seeing if we can get a woefully underqualified school matron to operate on your knee? Thought not.
You don't call nurses doctors when they're not, you dont call spanner monkeys engineers when they're not. Just because you've met a few qualified engineers that still happened to be muppets doesn't change anything because lets face it, some doctors are idiots too.
well said!!! the whole engineer/technician thing really bugs me too.
You don't call nurses doctors when they're not, you dont call spanner monkeys engineers when they're not. Just because you've met a few qualified engineers that still happened to be muppets doesn't change anything because lets face it, some doctors are idiots too.
No doubt that some qualified engineering graduates are hopeless, but I'd be very happy working with an engineer that had not got a qualification from a university, but had got one from an apprenticeship instead. Some types of engineering are probably best learned by being more practical than others.
Just a thought.
Jambo
Edit: P.S, On the flip side I do get annoyed at the sheer number of people that describe themselves as technicians and engineers. I once totally lost a sales call by patronising a woman who described herself to me as a "domestic engineer" I felt that I should enquire as to what part of the domestic environment she designed and fabricated and eventually pointed out that she was a house keeper / house wife. She got very annoyed and hung up on me. I also spoke to plenty of blokes that would cheerily describe themselves as "house husbands" or "home makers" and found them to be very easy to get on with!
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 09:46 AM
No doubt that some qualified engineering graduates are hopeless, but I'd be very happy working with an engineer that had not got a qualification from a university, but had got one from an apprenticeship instead. Some types of engineering are probably best learned by being more practical than others.
See this is the problem. People are so used to anyone who's involved with anything the least bit technical, (especially if they're practical, hands on people) being called engineers. Engineers aren't practical! Half the time I never even see the site I'm doing work on, for example.
Fancy seeing if we can get a woefully underqualified school matron to operate on your knee? Thought not.
You don't call nurses doctors when they're not, you dont call spanner monkeys engineers when they're not. Just because you've met a few qualified engineers that still happened to be muppets doesn't change anything because lets face it, some doctors are idiots too.
Having recently sat on the other side of the interviewing table for the first time recently, I can attest to university Muppets. With no grounding in reality, not knowing what the job really entails and more importantly no experience.
I would rather take on someone with 3-6+ years experience with no degree, and a good grounding in whatever it is were doing (i.e. what I do, IP Networks/Unix). Rather than someone who has had 3 years experience pushing paper and getting stoned, proving they can learn enough to pass an exam.
Again, not just digging at degrees here, there are people who obtain high end computing qualifications by basically cheating, learning the exam material/answers rather than getting an idea of what it is all about.
I believe if someone has the aptitude for something, and gains some experience then why shouldn’t they be called by the professional name, just because they gained there knowledge by doing rather than reading a book about it.
I also have to agree with the Engineering role entailing design. I.e. In my profession people who get called "Network Engineers" generally design the networks, and make things work. Where as people who do the donkey work are called Network Administrators. Ok, it’s not mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, or a traditional engineering position. But the term can still be applied.
Dan
See this is the problem. People are so used to anyone who's involved with anything the least bit technical, (especially if they're practical, hands on people) being called engineers. Engineers aren't practical! Half the time I never even see the site I'm doing work on, for example.
Yes, but to claim that you don't have types of engineering that would be better dealt with by a hands on approach seems strange. There are compainies that hand fabricate whole steam engines. That, to me is a form of engineering, and one that I would expect to spend more time gaining experiance than studying the subject theoretically, if I wanted someone good at it.
When I was interviewing for Engineers to work for me in automotive powertrain (design/development/calibration etc), after covering the usual niceties of academic/work history, I would always hand them a component, con-rod, piston etc, and ask them to talk to me about it (anything about it, whatever they wanted to tell me). That usually sorted the Engineers from the also-rans. "It's a piston" didn't cut it.
It was often said that the parent company of the place I worked for wasn't in the business of manufacturing vehicles, it was in the business of manufacturing careers. More true than you might imagine.
The other thing which concentrated the mind was to get the designer to go down to the track and show the track-workers how to assemble the items. :scratch:
See this is the problem. People are so used to anyone who's involved with anything the least bit technical, (especially if they're practical, hands on people) being called engineers. Engineers aren't practical! Half the time I never even see the site I'm doing work on, for example.
exactly. a mech eng degree comprises about 90% maths (well, that's what it felt like at the time).
Ok, it’s not mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, or a traditional engineering position. But the term can still be applied.
So are you saying you've never made an RJ45 cable? :p
Over simplification I know, but I'd argue that a Network Engineer must have a fundamental knowledge of electrical engineering principals at least. (magnetic induction of cables defining routing being a prime example).
As for the earlier argument that seemed to me to be Universities vs Poly's... My old boss described degrees as "Well, it shows they can learn quick enough."
I went to University BTW (Stafford FWIW), and stayed a whole 4 months, doing BSc Software Engineering (teaching software programming, network architecture etc etc). Then I dropped out. Judge me if you like :D
So are you saying you've never made an RJ45 cable? :p
Over simplification I know, but I'd argue that a Network Engineer must have a fundamental knowledge of electrical engineering principals at least. (magnetic induction of cables defining routing being a prime example).
Yes, i've mad RJ45's, i've punched down patch pannels, i've run BNC. I've...been left under the raised floor in the data center. So yes, I have done that in the past, that is somewhat required to have a "Good Grounding" in the field.
Dan
rictus01
09-03-07, 10:14 AM
See this is the problem. People are so used to anyone who's involved with anything the least bit technical, (especially if they're practical, hands on people) being called engineers. Engineers aren't practical! Half the time I never even see the site I'm doing work on, for example.
Says you, not the dictionary.
Fancy seeing if we can get a woefully underqualified school matron to operate on your knee? Thought not.
As indeed I'd not let you machine conponents or work on my bike.
You don't call nurses doctors when they're not, you dont call spanner monkeys engineers when they're not. Just because you've met a few qualified engineers that still happened to be muppets doesn't change anything because lets face it, some doctors are idiots too.
both nurse and doctor are clearly defined, and just about everyone know what they do, and to be honest if I didn't trust my surgeon, he wouldn't be touching my knee(but I fail to see what any of this has to do with it, I fairly sure he's never claimed to be an Engineer).
And niether do any of the online dictionaries refer to a degree anywhere, merely training, or you could of course just drive a train ;) .
Taken from OED
.
• noun 1 a person qualified in engineering.
2 a person who maintains or controls an engine or machine.
3 a person who skilfully originates something. .
Or is it just another group trying to highjack termanology.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 10:21 AM
Dan I think IT is a special case - the need for an academic grounding is far less important than experience.
However for alot of engineering jobs it's important to have both. Therefore, even though someone who has a degree might be a muppet and unable to do their job, if someone doesn't have a degree you know they won't be able to do the job.
chazzyb
09-03-07, 10:23 AM
I thought an engineer was up there at the front, with the driver, tapping his steam gauges, riding on the footplate, etc.
I noticed the other day that there are loads of engineers on here (engineers are the most likely profession to crash a bike apparently). I'm studying at Manchester Uni at the mo and looking for a placement for summer in either aerospace/mechanical engineering. Would anyone be able to help me out with an address or anything else? Lunchtime rideouts would be ace!
Thanks
Robin :)
(i've got no preference of location whatsoever)
:offtopic: so now all you highly qualified engineers have finished protecting your status, is anyone gonna offer the poor geezer a job!:D :lol:
I would love to help bud but I'm not an engineer;)
if someone doesn't have a degree you know they won't be able to do the job.
I don't have a degree in Software Engineering (the course I started but never finished - course name, not my choice to call it that). That degree teaches, amongst other things, software programming.
I'm employed as a Java Developer. Perhaps I should be sacked, by your logic :D
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 10:31 AM
As indeed I'd not let you machine conponents or work on my bike.
Why not, because I'm not a qualified mechanic? I hope you are then.
And niether do any of the online dictionaries refer to a degree anywhere, merely training, or you could of course just drive a train ;) .
The dictionary also defines doctor as an eminent scholar and teacher, but as we both know that we're talking about people in a professional role, how about you don't trawl though the dictionary to regurgitate utterly irrelivent text?
I don't have a degree in Software Engineering (the course I started but never finished - course name, not my choice to call it that). That degree teaches, amongst other things, software programming.
I'm employed as a Java Developer. Perhaps I should be sacked, by your logic :D
Baph its worse, im an "Operataions Lead Engineer" according to my job title (I dont care what it is in reality). So should I be leading operations....Mark bring your knee here...i'll sort it!
Dan
I think the problem it that engineers (by engineers I mean FS's definition) feel/are v undervalued in the UK and this problem is exacerbated by the fact that practically anyone can call themselves an engineer (unlike in other professions and countries), other languages have clearly separate words for engineers and technicians.
Baph its worse, im an "Operataions Lead Engineer" according to my job title (I dont care what it is in reality). So should I be leading operations....Mark bring your knee here...i'll sort it!
Dan
I've also been employed (by the same firm) under the title of "Data Architect." My thinking was great, I'll just be designing DBs all day long. Erm, nope. My job was pretty much the same as it is now, and I'm working under a different title, but getting paid more (as of the end of this month at least :D)
So much for F_S's theory that if you don't have a degree in your field you can't do your job.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 10:48 AM
So much for F_S's theory that if you don't have a degree in your field you can't do your job.
Please point out where I said that.
:offtopic: so now all you highly qualified engineers have finished protecting your status, is anyone gonna offer the poor geezer a job!:D :lol:
I would love to help bud but I'm not an engineer;)
oh yeah, sorry i can't help either. good luck though getting a decent summer placement. it will help you loads when applying for jobs when you graduate (as i'm sure you know). wish i had got some work experience before i graduated.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 10:51 AM
I think the problem it that engineers (by engineers I mean FS's definition) feel/are v undervalued in the UK and this problem is exacerbated by the fact that practically anyone can call themselves an engineer (unlike in other professions and countries), other languages have clearly separate words for engineers and technicians.
Yep!
rictus01
09-03-07, 10:51 AM
Why not, because I'm not a qualified mechanic? I hope you are then. actually more because I know you, and I'll refer you back to post 7 of this thread.
The dictionary also defines doctor as an eminent scholar and teacher, but as we both know that we're talking about people in a professional role, how about you don't trawl though the dictionary to regurgitate utterly irrelivent text?
Hey you brought up Doctors, nothing to do with the queston asked.
I don't have a degree in Software Engineering (the course I started but never finished - course name, not my choice to call it that). That degree teaches, amongst other things, software programming.
I'm employed as a Java Developer. Perhaps I should be sacked, by your logic ?
No great worries there, I've been an implementor,administrator, designer, technician and now consultant (hey I wonder if I could do my surgery).
Cheers Mark
So much for F_S's theory that if you don't have a degree in your field you can't do your job.
Please point out where I said that.
OK, no editing this post whatsoever. Read the last sentence in this one...
Dan I think IT is a special case - the need for an academic grounding is far less important than experience.
However for alot of engineering jobs it's important to have both. Therefore, even though someone who has a degree might be a muppet and unable to do their job, if someone doesn't have a degree you know they won't be able to do the job.
Yep!
phew, i'm glad someone agreed with me at last.
it is very frustrating spending 3 or 4 years at uni doing a bloody difficult and full-on degree and then when people hear you are an engineer they think that you spent 3 years learning how to fix boilers!!
rictus01
09-03-07, 11:00 AM
phew, i'm glad someone agreed with me at last.
it is very frustrating spending 3 or 4 years at uni doing a bloody difficult and full-on degree and then when people hear you are an engineer they think that you spent 3 years learning how to fix boilers!!
The whole point of the question, I don't think it is defined clearly ((broad brush), I think it's one of those things that over time has expanded to the point it covers a multitude of jobs and some have just pushed it to far.
Cheers Mark.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 11:01 AM
actually more because I know you
No you don't.
And since you feel the need to get personal you've obviously nothing worthwhile to contribute to the coversation.
No you don't.
And since you feel the need to get personal you've obviously nothing worthwhile to contribute to the coversation.
Nice dodge of my post F_S, scroll back a little.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 11:04 AM
OK, no editing this post whatsoever. Read the last sentence in this one...
What's the point in reading just the last sentance when it's completely out of context without the rest of the paragraph? I said in alot of engineering fields a degree was necessary, what's wrong with that?
What's the point in reading just the last sentance when it's completely out of context without the rest of the paragraph? I said in alot of engineering fields a degree was necessary, what's wrong with that?
Nothing.
It's the fact that you said that if someone doesn't have a degree, you know they can't do the job. That wasn't indicative of any fields whatsoever. It was a blanket statement & you know it.
EDIT: If there was no point in reading it, was there any point in posting it? I certainly don't feel its out of context, thats why I didn't edit the quote on purpose.
rictus01
09-03-07, 11:05 AM
No you don't.
And since you feel the need to get personal you've obviously nothing worthwhile to contribute to the coversation.
Once again your opinion,and no more valid than anyone elses.
if you choose to leave comic opening don't be surprised when they're used.
Cheers Mark.
The whole point of the question, I don't think it is defined clearly ((broad brush), I think it's one of those things that over time has expanded to the point it covers a multitude of jobs and some have just pushed it to far.
Cheers Mark.
I don't disagree with you. It's just a shame that there isn't a separate term for professional engineers like there are for other professions.
omg, why is everyone arguing???
surely everyone agrees that the term engineer is rubbish and misleading!
rictus01
09-03-07, 11:11 AM
I don't disagree with you. It's just a shame that there isn't a separate term for professional engineers like there are for other professions.
Just to throw in another spanner;)
• noun 1 a professional person. 2 a person having impressive competence in a particular activity.
omg, why is everyone arguing???
surely everyone agrees that the term engineer is rubbish and misleading!
I have no opinion of the term, especially as I'm not formally qualified in anything beyond A-Levels. I just disagree strongly that I simply can't do my job, because I haven't been to get a degree.
Just to throw in another spanner;)
• noun 1 a professional person. 2 a person having impressive competence in a particular activity.
The English language is great isn't it :) An electric fence can be live, but you live.
timwilky
09-03-07, 11:14 AM
As somebody who has always classed themselves as an engineer, I have been watching this thread with interest.
To my mind, the difference between an engineer and technician can become very blurd. However, my definition of an engineer is somebody with a high level of knowledge in a subject. Who is accountable for function and form.
I know of several chief engineers of PLCs who do not have degrees, they sit on Britsh and european standards boards. Qualification is more important these days than it used to be. but more important is the post qualification training.
Accountability is important. Whilst a technician may well be an important member of a development team, ie testing design or structure etc. The engineer is the person responsible for the function and form to meet a purpose. It is he who may well end up in court as a result of a failure.
rictus01
09-03-07, 11:15 AM
The English language is great isn't it :) An electric fence can be live, but you live.
Always gets them going;)
Cheers Mark.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 11:17 AM
I just disagree strongly that I simply can't do my job, because I haven't been to get a degree.
If you think that's what I was implying you've not read what I've writen properly.
rictus01
09-03-07, 11:17 AM
As somebody who has always classed themselves as an engineer, I have been watching this thread with interest.
To my mind, the difference between an engineer and technician can become very blurd. However, my definition of an engineer is somebody with a high level of knowledge in a subject. Who is accountable for function and form.
I know of several chief engineers of PLCs who do not have degrees, they sit on Britsh and european standards boards. Qualification is more important these days than it used to be. but more important is the post qualification training.
Accountability is important. Whilst a technician may well be an important member of a development team, ie testing design or structure etc. The engineer is the person responsible for the function and form to meet a purpose. It is he who may well end up in court as a result of a failure.
I like that :D
Cheers Mark.
Always gets them going;)
Cheers Mark.
Alas, I think I've found my .org soulmate, someone that understands a good lexical argument ;) Keep up the good work Mark :thumbsup:
If you think that's what I was implying you've not read what I've writen properly.
Good come back, keep it up ;)
gettin2dizzy
09-03-07, 11:20 AM
Its a pity that these companies expect so much nowadays, the people getting placements on my course are the ones who have the best academic record- but thats such a bad indication of how well they can work. Most of these guys getting high 1sts can't hold a conversation never mind work with someone, however the pressure to fill your CV just keeps increasing. Enthusiasm for both your work and life should be far more important. I've been told theres an average of one placement handed out per 90 companies written to.
As for engineering status, its a professional qualification like a (medical) Doctor so easy to define. To 'engineer' something means to design it for its purpose, not to operate it or to repair it. In Europe an engineer is called 'Engineer Homer Simpson' like a doctor would be called 'Dr Homer Simpson'. Its much more recognised and respected than over here. I often get asked if i'm corgi registered! The degree is a crucial part of it, as it teaches you all the fundamentals. I can fix a computer but wouldn't call myself qualified to do so.
The optimist - the glass is half full
The pessimist - the glass is half empty
The engineer - the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
Alas, I think I've found my .org soulmate, someone that understands a good lexical argument ;) Keep up the good work Mark :thumbsup:
Good come back, keep it up ;)
don't get me started with semantics (please).
Well, g2d looks like you will have to settle for distance learning, the bods are still debating their identity!:D
Its a pity that these companies expect so much nowadays, the people getting placements on my course are the ones who have the best academic record- but thats such a bad indication of how well they can work. Most of these guys getting high 1sts can't hold a conversation never mind work with someone, however the pressure to fill your CV just keeps increasing. Enthusiasm for both your work and life should be far more important. I've been told theres an average of one placement handed out per 90 companies written to.
As for engineering status, its a professional qualification like a (medical) Doctor so easy to define. To 'engineer' something means to design it for its purpose, not to operate it or to repair it. In Europe an engineer is called 'Engineer Homer Simpson' like a doctor would be called 'Dr Homer Simpson'. Its much more recognised and respected than over here. I often get asked if i'm corgi registered! The degree is a crucial part of it, as it teaches you all the fundamentals. I can fix a computer but wouldn't call myself qualified to do so.
The optimist - the glass is half full
The pessimist - the glass is half empty
The engineer - the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
:winner:
As for engineering status, its a professional qualification like a (medical) Doctor so easy to define. To 'engineer' something means to design it for its purpose, not to operate it or to repair it.
So let me get this right.
Lets say I design something, to do a specific job. Example in point here, a piece of Java code. By definition, I engineer'd that code, right? So technically (note: technically) I'm an engineer.
So now, someone in the QA dept comes along & finds a bug. My work order gets bounced back to me, to fix it. So I have to drop "engineer" status, to be able to do my job. Then I become "code monkey" status.
Hmm. Interesting.
(Sorry, I had to... there has to be at least the potential for repair work, since the best person for that job is the person that designed it. Other than that, I agree completely ;))
gettin2dizzy
09-03-07, 11:38 AM
thats just refining the product. I'd never send out anything faulty ;)
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 11:45 AM
Good come back, keep it up ;)
Certainly the value of a degree varies depending on the engineering field. You field, IT, is probably one where it matters the least.
For mine however, it's very valuble and not having one will compramise your ability to do your job no matter your experience.
For example, I've seen a highly experienced engineer teaching a junoir (degree qualified) engineer how to size ductwork before. They got onto working out (in a complex fassion) air velocity, when the junoir engineer stopped him and said "can't you do it like this?" and proceeded to teach the senior engineer how to calculate it in a far easier fassion :cool:
timwilky
09-03-07, 11:51 AM
So let me get this right.
Lets say I design something, to do a specific job. Example in point here, a piece of Java code. By definition, I engineer'd that code, right? So technically (note: technically) I'm an engineer.
So now, someone in the QA dept comes along & finds a bug. My work order gets bounced back to me, to fix it. So I have to drop "engineer" status, to be able to do my job. Then I become "code monkey" status.
Hmm. Interesting.
(Sorry, I had to... there has to be at least the potential for repair work, since the best person for that job is the person that designed it. Other than that, I agree completely ;))
Sorry Baph
The software engineer would say we need an object class that provides these methods etc. The code monkey would take that object design and put it together. So are you a part time engineer and part time code monkey, an engineer who can also do the work, or a code monkey with delusions of grandeur?.;)
Sorry Baph
The software engineer would say we need an object class that provides these methods etc. The code monkey would take that object design and put it together. So are you a part time engineer and part time code monkey, an engineer who can also do the work, or a code monkey with delusions of grandeur?.;)
I happily class myself as a delusional code monkey, grandeur doesn't come anywhere near it ;)
gettin2dizzy
09-03-07, 01:29 PM
So no luck then? :smt089 Any suggestions?
ivantate
09-03-07, 01:41 PM
[quote= In Europe an engineer is called 'Engineer Homer Simpson' like a doctor would be called 'Dr Homer Simpson'. Its much more recognised and respected than over here. [/quote]
Well I am about to find out. I june I am going to work in Italy as an Engineer for atleast 12months. One thing I do know is that regardless of how well respected they are the pay situation is a whole lot less than in the UK.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 01:55 PM
Well I am about to find out. I june I am going to work in Italy as an Engineer for atleast 12months. One thing I do know is that regardless of how well respected they are the pay situation is a whole lot less than in the UK.
Really? :eek:
Probably costs half the price to live there though?
So no luck then? :smt089 Any suggestions?
have you tried the careers service people at uni? how about asking employers at a careers fair?
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 02:21 PM
Getting2dizzy; i've had problems trying to get some work experiance related to my chem degree. Michelin where helpfull but said their labs where in france (no ta), dunlop never got back, BP didnt get the point and a whole host of other companies refused to reply aswell. I contacted the Public Analysts Laboratory group earlier, i havnt checked to see if they'll take me. My lecturer for analytical chem recommended i try them - and also said I should give her name ;) talk to your lecturers, they might be able to put some weight behind your requests for work experiance.
Matt
The poor bloke only wanted to ask if anyone knew of a job going, not a debate on what the term engineer means. This threads gone crazy, its making me dizzy!!:smt101
ivantate
09-03-07, 06:43 PM
I guess the best way is to target the large companies who have budget for training and graduates.
Most small/medium size places have to be very efficient with the budgets they have and will only recruit experienced people.
One of the best ways is to target all friends, family, contacts etc... (obviously not us as we cant stay on topic and working in firms that are shutting in the UK).
As grim as it sounds for engineers there still seems to be jobs out there, I guess fewer people are training and looking for them.
.. If you are currently having no luck then perhaps the following may be able to help:-
Rolls Royce (Bristol) - their aerospace division regularly take on summer placements and are very nice
Airbus - they have a few places but get taken very quickly.. (and before you go into the interview have an idea of what an aeiloron is this will improve your chances no end ;) )
If you get no response from the bigger companies also try people like the MOD etc they have aerospace dept. and normally offer summer placements.
Your best bet is going with a bigger company that might offer you a graduate training program when you finish uni.
I would have to say though that aerospace is a dying profession in the country and unfortunately there are a lot of qualified people out there with experiance who have been laid off in recent times that will get the better paid jobs as contractors.. however, this means that graduates who are coming into the industry are expected to do a hell of a lot more work then previously expected of them at a much lower salary because companies can get away with it!! (rant over!)
If you have personal contacts within the industry then use them - after all what are they there for ;) .. but seriously it is always worth having a few names to be able to address your CV to with a covering letter, as it stands half a chance that way of not getting thrown in the bin with others.
Lots of companies now do an online application form for summer placements and you will be able to get a list of these from your uni (if they are half decent in your careers dept!) .. if you get stuck I should be able to find a few more names of companies but you need to give a bit more information as to which area you want to go into to know which company might offer you a bit more then "tea making" skills at the end of your placement.
To me an engineer is the guy who designs stuff and the technician is the guy who fixes them. If you've got a creative mind and studied as a 'technician' nothing will stop your mind wandering and trying out stuff for yourself. I've been an airport technician for the past 19 years and have known plenty of tech friends who are always inventing things at the amazement of the engineer superiors. So there. You can't pigeon hole people with names, but then again the name is the determining factor for the numbers on the check at the end of the month.
I noticed the other day that there are loads of engineers on here (engineers are the most likely profession to crash a bike apparently). I'm studying at Manchester Uni at the mo and looking for a placement for summer in either aerospace/mechanical engineering. Would anyone be able to help me out with an address or anything else? Lunchtime rideouts would be ace!
Thanks
Robin :)
(i've got no preference of location whatsoever)
What aspect of the job are you looking for? Production engineering, mechanical design, industrial design, grease monkey? I work for an aircraft interiors company in Bournemouth, so I could ask around.
If it's hands on work you're after though, it's mostly composite fitters on the shop floor at our place, so you wouldn't get to do much in the way of fabrication, systems, mechanisms or the like, just flat pack furniture assembly really!
One thing to bear in mind though: The aerospace industry is going through a bit of a sticky patch right now, since Airbus ****ed up the A380 schedule, so you might find opportunities harder to come by.
timwilky
10-03-07, 05:56 PM
If you want to do aerospace, you obviously need to talk to BAE Systems at Warton. They seem to be picking up quite a few orders for typhoon so might just feel like spending a bit on students.
If you want to do aerospace, you obviously need to talk to BAE Systems at Warton. They seem to be picking up quite a few orders for typhoon so might just feel like spending a bit on students.
I'll ask around about this. Since our company just took over production on the Typhoon contract :)
oldjack
11-03-07, 05:15 PM
Robin, I work in a testing lab at a company heat treating all sorts of parts and components, lots of aerospace stuff, undercarriage legs for example, its metallurgy not mech. eng.
We always have a summer placement person, sometimes pre uni, sometimes mid course, mainly to cover holiday absence, not necessarily metallurgists. If you're interested PM me and I'll ask at head office.
I'm in Macclesfield so you could go for a blast on your way home !
Jack
gettin2dizzy
12-03-07, 04:43 PM
This is all really good thanks. I'm studying Aerospace Engineering, but really want to go in to the automotive design side of things. Just driven for 3 hours without earplugs (oops) so when i get my sense of balance back i'll re read some of those last posts :P
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