View Full Version : Hmph
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 02:33 PM
So I enquired about getting some work experiance in an analytical laboratory today. What I got back was an evaluation of my spelling for the email I sent.
"Thank you for your enquiry and interest in Public Analyst work. Unfortunately I can't help with your request. I would however recommend that if you want to be considered seriously as a person who is accurate and precise you should check your spelling, I counted 7 mistakes in 20 seconds. Most employers would consider this an important aspect of laboratory reporting.
regards
Alan Richards
To: <alan.richards@durham.gov.uk>
cc:
Subject: Work Experiance
Hi there,
My name is Matt Tucknott, I am a 3rd year student at Kingston University studying for a degree in chemistry (integrated masters). I am interested in gaining some work experiance in an analytical laboratory during the summer vacation, and one of my lecturers, Dr Eileen Buckley-Dhoot, suggested that I contact someone from the public analyst's laboratory.
The reason I want to work in an analytical laboratory is one of fundamentals; the analytical process is key to all of practical chemistry, and doing it right means that results are more accurate, more precise and less erraneous. I am learning all this stuff at university but not nearly enough on a regular basis! In my mind, a good chemist has a good analytical mind in addition to actualy knowing something about chemistry! I beleive that working in an analytical laboratory will teach me about using equipment properly (through regular use) and, since there is a strong discipline element, what I learn will stick with me for life.
I live in Brighton (when I'm not living in kingston for university!) so some work experiance in the south east would be the most convinient for me. Can you help me out at all?
Regards,
Matt Tucknott"
Ok, I hold my hands up - some bad errors there. But does the guy know me? No. I'm just asking for a little help getting some experiance in a real laboratory. This has really upset me.
Matt
I'd write back mate.
"stuff" isn't a spelling error, it's grammar. Same goes for "kingston"... all it needs is capitalisation, that's not spelling either.
Go on, you know you want to. You have nothing to loose now ;)
EDIT: Since you've included his email address in the post, do you want me to spam him from president@whitehouse.gov?? Just 'cos I can :D
Filipe M.
09-03-07, 02:38 PM
Sorry Matt, I don't know how to put this any easier but he's right. He might have come out like an @rsehole but he's actually doing you a favour, believe it or not. Working in a fairly small company I can see exactly what he means, bosses do care about spelling mistakes. After all, you'll be in contact with the "outside world" at some point in time, and bad spelling comes right after bad info in the list of big no-nos...
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 02:41 PM
Yea, your right - I know it was bad, but it was pretty patronising the way it was said. He could have just said "Oh, your spelling was poor in that email - just as a helpful hint, make sure its tidy"
Matt
Not being funny here but if you are applying for anything, you have to have correct english and grammar. If I had received your email I'm afraid I wouldn't employ you either, though I probably wouldn't bother replying. My take on it is that if you can't be bothered to run a spell check then I can't be bothered replying.
At least you know why you have been turned down.
Guys, Matt's said he messed up. To me, the guy that replied deserves a good something, and it aint a medal. :crutches:
IMO, arrogant f******. Yes, fine, don't reply, reply with a nice message, but to sit down & time how long he's taken to read it, then give a stern criticism of someone he doesn't know. Does he not have anything better to be doing?
Filipe M.
09-03-07, 02:47 PM
Does he not have anything better to be doing?
HR, probably! :D
Tiger 55
09-03-07, 02:50 PM
This has really upset me.
Matt
You're upset? My taxes paid for your education, imagine how upset I am!
You have nothing to loose now
Shouldn't that be 'nothing to lose'? ;)
HR, probably! :D
I said better...
You're upset? My taxes paid for your education, imagine how upset I am!
Shouldn't that be 'nothing to lose'? ;)
You're right it should. But then, I never said I was a student wanting work experience ;)
EDIT: I wasn't going to comment on the taxes either. But what the heck ;) So I suppose you'd rather withdraw your taxes so you had more money in your pocket, and students had to pay their own way even more than currently. That's a nice plan. Nothing selfish about that at all.
Your taxes also go to pay for mr Plod, and council services, such as collecting your refuse. I suppose if you didn't have to pay tax, you'd happily take your own rubbish to the tip?
(BTW, I've worked as a "binman" - when I was a student funnily enough... and trust me, it's not a job you'd want to do!)
DanDare
09-03-07, 02:54 PM
Can I point out that Hmph is spelt with 2 'H's!:scratch:
If its on any help, I believe there are some Laboratory Technicians jobs going at either DSTL or HSA Porton Down.:smt115
Just a thought HTH.:)
Filipe M.
09-03-07, 02:56 PM
Can I point out that Hmph is spelt with 2 'H's!:scratch:
If its on any help, I believe there are some Laboratory Technicians jobs going at either DSTL or HSA Porton Down.:smt115
Just a thought HTH.:)
You missed a comma after "thought", as in:
"Just a thought, HTH."
You spelt believe wrong
;o)
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 02:58 PM
Not being funny here but if you are applying for anything, you have to have correct english and grammar. If I had received your email I'm afraid I wouldn't employ you either, though I probably wouldn't bother replying. My take on it is that if you can't be bothered to run a spell check then I can't be bothered replying.
At least you know why you have been turned down.
True, but then the email was obviously an informal enquiry. Still, next time I'll spell-check etc. Its not the fact he said, its the way it was said. When people make mistakes that I pick up, I say so nicely.
Oh, and where is Porton Down?
Matt
DanDare
09-03-07, 03:03 PM
You spelt believe wrong
;o)
Erm ......... No! :scratch:
Porton Down is in Wiltshire, few miles north of Salisbury. The train from London goes right passed it.
Filipe I left that comma out on purpose to check your on the ball. Well Done!
Filipe M.
09-03-07, 03:05 PM
Erm ......... No! :scratch:
Porton Down is in Wiltshire, few miles north of Salisbury. The train from London goes right passed it.
Filipe I left that comma out on purpose to check your on the ball. Well Done!
:takeabow:
Erm ......... No! :scratch:
Porton Down is in Wiltshire, few miles north of Salisbury. The train from London goes right passed it.
Filipe I left that comma out on purpose to check your on the ball. Well Done!
I think he meant that Matt spelled "believe" wrong (3rd line of 2nd paragraph of his email).
Oh and shouldn't that say "goes right past it". ;)
Tiger 55
09-03-07, 03:06 PM
I suppose you'd rather withdraw your taxes so you had more money in your pocket, and students had to pay their own way even more than currently.
No no no, I am making myself misunderstood. Delighted to pay taxes, delighted. My upset comes from the fact that somewhere down the line marked "Teach kidz how to read and that" they have been siphoned off, probably for some horse**** initiative, leaving poor old Matt (and millions of others) in his current predicament.
Your taxes also go to pay for mr Plod, and council services, such as collecting your refuse. I suppose if you didn't have to pay tax, you'd happily take your own rubbish to the tip?
Hmm. Pay no tax, take your own rubbish to the tip? Yup, I am in.
Has to be no tax at all mind, not just no binman bit.
Pedrosa
09-03-07, 03:07 PM
Mr.Dainese star not be too very worried. I am have sertain problems at sometimes with spellying.:cool:
Tiger 55
09-03-07, 03:08 PM
your on the ball.
Should of course be "you're on the ball".
Should of course be "you're on the ball".
oh yeah, missed that one, oops.
Miss Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 03:11 PM
Not being funny here but if you are applying for anything, you have to have correct english and grammar. If I had received your email I'm afraid I wouldn't employ you either, though I probably wouldn't bother replying. My take on it is that if you can't be bothered to run a spell check then I can't be bothered replying.
At least you know why you have been turned down.
Im afraid i have to disagree with what you have said. Matt was clearly making an informal enquiry, not applying for a job. Yes, spelling and grammar is important, but not that important when making a small enquiry! Im sure alot of people dont check their spelling and grammar with a beady eye when asking a simple question.
If you recieved that email, would you seriously not bother replying? its not as if it was written in text-format (e.g "hiya i wana get sum wrk exprience, can u help me") or in slang. It was clear, to the point, well thought out and above all, made sense.
Maria
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 03:11 PM
You're upset? My taxes paid for your education, imagine how upset I am!
Not Matts fault, they dont teach kids anything useful in school anymore.
DanDare
09-03-07, 03:13 PM
Should of course be "you're on the ball".
Tiger 55, you were a little slow on picking that one up, however well done anyway. I feel liberated in my subliminal teachings!:scratch:
My work hear is dun!
(e.g "hiya i wana get sum wrk exprience, can u help me")
sup m8, no probs, gis a shout w ur xperience & Ill holla back asap.
No? :lol:
Tiger 55, you were a little slow on picking that one up, however well done anyway. I feel liberated in my subliminal teachings!:scratch:
My work hear is dun!
Surely not.
'here'... someone else have a pop as well ;)
Miss Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 03:16 PM
sup m8, no probs, gis a shout w ur xperience & Ill holla back asap.
No? :lol:
lol! :p
Maria
Tiger 55
09-03-07, 03:17 PM
It was clear, to the point, well thought out and above all, made sense.
No, sorry but above all it was so littered with mistakes that it got filed in the circular cabinet.
Not Matts fault, they dont teach kids anything useful in school anymore.
No, not Matt's fault (notice the apostrophe there), I blame the government!
Filipe M.
09-03-07, 03:17 PM
Not Matts fault, they dont teach kids anything useful in school anymore.
Not even engineers? :shock:
This is so petty and frankly Matt you should count your lucky stars that you don't work there.
You applied for a job as an chemist - not as an English teacher or proof reader.
I sometimes don't like what members of my team wear to work, but I pay them for use of their grey matter not their taste in clothes.
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 03:21 PM
You are right Ed, I am a chemist, and no more! Anyway, he replied with a seemingly apologetic email:
"I'm sorry you feel upset at my comments they were intended to be constructive and helpful. I would never intentionally put down anyone because they are an undergraduate. Many potential employers place a high importance on care and attention to detail when considering applications. I have considered hundreds of applicants for jobs and in my experience most applications get 30 seconds before being rejected or accepted for further assessment. Your application is the window you open to potential employers to see what you can do, don't slip at the first hurdle. If an application contains many errors then it tells me something about the applicant and the care they take with their work.
I wish you luck"
This was a nicer way of putting it, I told him :cool:
The email in no way reflects the work I produce...which is what I should have told him :scratch:
Matt
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 03:22 PM
Not even engineers? :shock:
Nope. Even doing an extra A-level and going to uni I don't consider myself very well educated. As Tiger has just pointed out, I can't even remember where to use an apostrophy half the time.
The three 'R's are being seriously negelcted.
Nope. Even doing an extra A-level and going to uni I don't consider myself very well educated. As Tiger has just pointed out, I can't even remember where to use an apostrophy half the time.
The three 'R's are being seriously negelcted.
You just proved your own point.
Everyone knows that the 3 R's are actually 2 R's & an A.
Get with the program :p
Nope. Even doing an extra A-level and going to uni I don't consider myself very well educated. As Tiger has just pointed out, I can't even remember where to use an apostrophe half the time.
The three 'R's are being seriously negelcted.
sorry
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 03:27 PM
You just proved your own point.
Everyone knows that the 3 R's are actually 2 R's & an A.
Get with the program :p
LOL
Yes I'm not THAT bad, it's just a saying!
Leave me alone:smt089
LOL
Yes I'm not THAT bad, it's just a saying!
Leave me alone:smt089
It's OK fella, you're not doing too badly, for an Engineer :p
johnnyrod
09-03-07, 03:32 PM
Good luck but seriously, spell things correctly at least, analysis is all about detail and consistency. As the guys says, he gets millions of these and needs a reason not to consign you to the bin with most of the others. Speak to the RSC who should be able to help you organise some work experience and give you careers advice. If you're not a member then you should strongly consider it.
Mr.Dainese star not be too very worried. I am have sertain problems at sometimes with spellying.:cool:
Mr Pedrosa........ you remind me of someone....can't think of his name at the moment, but he used to post on here :confused:
Don't worry, Matt - all Public Analysts have anal tendancies. I say all, but the one in Cardiff is a good bloke. Want me to ask?
Warthog
09-03-07, 03:33 PM
That guy was very harsh, but very right. When I had to go through loads of applications for our lab technician post, we had some really poor cover letters, and they just go in the bin. It's like grabbing a load of front brake and falling off; a painful but valuable lesson.
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-07, 03:33 PM
It's OK fella, you're not doing too badly, for an Engineer :p
Yep, I'm a technical bod, an excuse I've used many times :D
Guys, Matt's said he messed up. To me, the guy that replied deserves a good something, and it aint a medal. :crutches:
IMO, arrogant f******. Yes, fine, don't reply, reply with a nice message, but to sit down & time how long he's taken to read it, then give a stern criticism of someone he doesn't know. Does he not have anything better to be doing?
I agree. This is just some jumped up big wig spouting off, stuff him :D ok you learnt your lesson, but he could have been pleasant and constructive. Manners cost nothing as my mum used to tell me ;)
That guy was very harsh, but very right. When I had to go through loads of applications for our lab technician post, we had some really poor cover letters, and they just go in the bin. It's like grabbing a load of front brake and falling off; a painful but valuable lesson.
I'd agree with this, except that I don't think he was being particularly harsh or patronising . The bloke received an unsolicited email, containing spelling and grammar errors. He could have just binned it, but instead he wrote back and told you what you needed to do to fix it.
I don't want to sound like I'm being too harsh on Matt here, so I would say that the general form and content of your initial letter was pretty good.
Fizzy Fish
09-03-07, 04:02 PM
I'd agree with this, except that I don't think he was being particularly harsh or patronising . The bloke received an unsolicited email, containing spelling and grammar errors. He could have just binned it, but instead he wrote back and told you what you needed to do to fix it.
I don't want to sound like I'm being too harsh on Matt here, so I would say that the general form and content of your initial letter was pretty good.
I'd agree, at least you now know what went wrong and will therefore stand a better chance of getting something else.
I employ people to work on analytical work, and attention to detail is absolutely critical - the number of late nights I've had to work to cover for suppliers/staff who can't get these things right has taught me this the hard way. Now I'm not saying that I never make a mistake, but that many errors just doesn't give a good impression re your attention to detail or the amount of effort that you've put into the 'application'. Sorry, I know it sounds harsh but if that's how a lot of employers feel, you being right in your own mind isn't going to get you a job!
PS. Before anyone calls me up on any mistakes i make on this forum i'll just point out that this ain't a job application! ;)
PS. Before anyone calls me up on any mistakes i make on this forum i'll just point out that this ain't a job application! ;)
int :D
fizzwheel
09-03-07, 04:11 PM
I used to take the line with this kind of enquiry, if you can't be bothered to use a spellchecker then I can't be bothered to give you the time of day.
Yes I know its harsh, but if you miss the little things that are easy to fix, then what else are you going to miss. Also using words like "Stuff" doesnt really put you in the best light possible.
I'm sure you know all this already, but if you really wanted a job there maybe you should have put a little more effort into your enquiry formal or informal.
Personally I think your lucky you even got a reply. It was harsh, but a lesson learnt for next time perhaps ?
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 04:13 PM
Yea, I guess. I've emailed another company now, with help from Baph and the spell checker. Lesson learnt!
:)
Matt
Yea, I guess. I've emailed another company now, with help from baph and the spell checker. Lesson learnt!
:)
Matt
Hey, no blaming me now!
(capital B btw ;))
Fizzy Fish
09-03-07, 04:16 PM
Yea, I guess. I've emailed another company now, with help from baph and the spell checker. Lesson learnt!
:)
Matt
Good luck!
Biker Biggles
09-03-07, 04:27 PM
I dare not post on here now in case I make a smelling mistake.[-(
I dare not post on here now in case I make a smelling mistake.[-(
haha I no wot u meen . c*nt you evun du that rite ? . :silent: :D
Filipe M.
09-03-07, 04:39 PM
I dare not post on here now in case I make a smelling pistake.[-(
I know what you mean, mate. 8-[
As an aside to this, has anyone seen the latest ad campaign from 'The Independent'?
Free books and little glossy cards that are directed at improving your grammar, spelling and general use of 'Plain English'...
... coming from the newspaper that used to be notorious for its spelling errors. ;)
EDIT: Or was that the Guardian? I don't know - they are like boxes of cereal to me; I only ever buy them for the free gifts!
Biker Biggles
09-03-07, 05:51 PM
It was The Grauniad IIRC.
Ceri JC
09-03-07, 05:55 PM
Not being funny here but if you are applying for anything, you have to have correct english and grammar. If I had received your email I'm afraid I wouldn't employ you either, though I probably wouldn't bother replying. My take on it is that if you can't be bothered to run a spell check then I can't be bothered replying.
At least you know why you have been turned down.
I agree with Kate. IMO, you were lucky to get the email- I'd of deleted your application and not replied.
Tiger 55
09-03-07, 05:59 PM
I've emailed another company now
Good luck mate.
(Isn't it Enfield by the way?)
Christ, I can't help myself!
I can't believe all the judgemental people on here. It was a few typos, that's all. Matt was looking for work as a chemist, not as an English teacher. Attention to detail - oh yes, no doubt, but does the fact that he misspelt 'believe' mean that he's no good in his chosen field?
Alpinestarhero
09-03-07, 09:07 PM
Good luck mate.
(Isn't it Enfield by the way?)
Christ, I can't help myself!
Oh, probably. I have problems with my ei's / ie's, aswell as where/were :shock:
And thanks Ed; my dad isnt so great at spelling, yet i wouldnt trust anyone else to fix my SV - he's the best mechanic in the world!
Anyway, looking for other people to ask for work experiance, if anyone knows of any companies that have chemistry departments in the south east, then let me know!
Matt
fizzwheel
09-03-07, 09:16 PM
I can't believe all the judgemental people on here. It was a few typos, that's all. Matt was looking for work as a chemist, not as an English teacher. Attention to detail - oh yes, no doubt, but does the fact that he misspelt 'believe' mean that he's no good in his chosen field?
First impressions count, sad isnt it, but they do and theres no getting away from it. Especially in the job market, work experience or not.
I can't believe all the judgemental people on here. It was a few typos, that's all. Matt was looking for work as a chemist, not as an English teacher. Attention to detail - oh yes, no doubt, but does the fact that he misspelt 'believe' mean that he's no good in his chosen field?
I'd call them helpful rather than judgemental.
Everyone that has actual experience from the other perspective of receiving CVs has basically said 'Look he's right these things do matter, especially in your introductory letter'
Some employers may not care about this, but most do. Certainly the best employers with the best careers to offer do. The ones who can pick and choose between dozens of candidates for any given position. So we could have said 'There there Matt, ignore the nasty man' :grouphug: . Or we could say 'Get someone to review any important correspondence ' . Which response would be best for Matt's long term career prospects? I don't think anybody was having a go, just offering good advice.
Actually, I realise that you are an employer yourself, so that messes up my 'Everyone' on line 2. Make that 'Almost everyone' :D
I'm a bit late in but as an employer my take on this is...
That is the big problem with emails - they do not show expression and accordingly are often misinterpretated; just like many of these posts, there is ton(nes) of evidence on this site alone when the meaning has been mistaken.
We do not put the same effort into them as we would a letter. Why not?
Ok he should have not been so patronising perhaps, but then you should have been more careful, then he should... you should... and so on and so on.
I think your reaction is over sensitive. In the big bad working world you'll get much tougher knocks than that and still live. Just learn from it, your day will come and when it does use it wisely - never over react! Good luck:D
Wow, I am actually, genuinely, amazed that after after six pages nobody has yet come round bleating about being Dyslexic.;)
:smt047
Filipe M.
10-03-07, 10:47 AM
Wow, I am actually, genuinely, amazed that after after six pages nobody has yet come round bleating about being Dyslexic.;)
:smt047
So true... :roll: Has anyone seen Einstein around?! :lol:
Biker Biggles
10-03-07, 10:51 PM
Einstein?He's away working on some theory about his relatives.;)
Filipe M.
10-03-07, 11:11 PM
I hope he has updated his spell checker! :lol:
weazelz
10-03-07, 11:13 PM
What I got back was an evaluation of my spelling for the email I sent.
"Thank you for your enquiry and interest in Public Analyst work. Unfortunately I can't help with your request. I would however recommend that if you want to be considered seriously as a person who is accurate and precise you should check your spelling, I counted 7 mistakes in 20 seconds. Most employers would consider this an important aspect of laboratory reporting.
regards
Alan Richards
that seems like perfectly polite, constructive advice. consider yourself fortunate that you got any feedback
sup m8, no probs, gis a shout w ur xperience & Ill holla back asap.
No? :lol:
But surely "it's holla back at you"?
No?
Edit: just read posts to the end and realised how slow I was coming to this., sorry for dragging up old history :lol:
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