View Full Version : Would you undertake here ?
oldjack
13-03-07, 07:47 PM
2 lanes to a T junction with lights, RH lane is always full, LH lane is always empty, can't filter on the outside 'cos its too narrow and on a LH bend, so I sit like a pillock behind a 100 yard queue in the RH lane, every day for 3 years.:confused:
Why don't I sneak through on the empty inside lane and nip into the front of the RH lane at the lights :smt077 ? I don't know, but something is stopping me, is there some unwritten taboo about this situation ? I've never seen another motorbike sneak through, but pushbikes and scooters always do !:smt102
probably shouldnt but i would 100%.
John 675
13-03-07, 08:06 PM
without a doubt, but with my wits about me and if the lights were red
Go for it, just be causious though and watch out for pesky peds. I can't see much wrong with it!
CoolGirl
13-03-07, 08:09 PM
If it's a stationary line of traffic, it's not technically undertaking, is it? Nowt wrong with positioning yourself advantageously.
I'd do it, and probably did it on a daily basis on my commute.
Just watch out for the twonk who decides they wanted to go left after all....
the white rabbit
13-03-07, 08:09 PM
Definitely :lol:
(keeping an eye for laney-changey types of course)
Sid Squid
13-03-07, 08:14 PM
Yes.
Absolutely no reason not to, the usual checks and cautions apply of course, no more and certainly no less than when one makes any other manoeuvre or overtake.
Alpinestarhero
13-03-07, 08:18 PM
Here's what I would do:
Mirror check, shoulder check, down a gear or two, bimble past the traffic to the front of the queue and stop infront of the car at the head of the queue and make a bit of noise to make the dirver know I am there.
Then be the first away :cool:
Matt
Yeah, I would.
You could always not go right to the front, if that would put you too far out into the road you are joining. Stop a car or two or three back wherever the best looking gap / softest looking driver is.
And assume that someone is definitely going to pull out from the queue at the last second. You just have to guess who it will be :D
I would but slowly and carefully
arenalife
13-03-07, 08:39 PM
Absolutely, I often use the spare bit of road in front of the white line to place my bike, as long as it's not on a pedestrain crossing obviously haha. I've learnt all the traffic light phases on my commute so I know how long I've got till green so I never actually stop.
Biker Biggles
13-03-07, 08:40 PM
Don't see why not.After all it's just a line of stationary traffic asking to be ridden round.You don't have to do it at 90mph of course.:D
Me too. In fact I do almost the identical thing at a junction here. I make sure that I'm just enough infront of the vehicle to my right so that he/she can see me...and I make sure that I'm first away when the lights change. Once you've done it once, you'll never queue again...probably!!:)
Of course, caution to be observed at all times but I'm sure your aware of that (this line is the 'get out clause' bit). :colors:
Samnooshka
13-03-07, 08:55 PM
Yep i do this everyday :D but carefully of course:p
skidmarx
13-03-07, 09:15 PM
If I was familiar with the junction, which you are, then what you waiting for? Your far more likely to get caught up in low speed 'nudge off' queueing for the RHS lane than you are likely to get caught out jumping the queue! There's very little that is going to beat you away when the light change, so get ahead and stay ahead :cool: .The One caution for me would be meeting a chavracer or execgti who wants to race....:smt065 Let em' have their victory, but watch your mirrors in case you get shuffled out of the deck....:(
As far as I'm concerned, we have very little primary safety in terms of protection, so use your power to stay OUT THE WAY :smt105
I do similar every day. If I get to the front while its still red then I swing across the first car, I don't think I'll ever get in bother for being a tad over the line (and most cars don't go up to line) but that way the car knows I'm there and I don't have to race them. If lights go green on my way up then I start signalling and find a gap to move in to.
There's only one junction on my commute where I usually just queue, I'm going left, the right hand lane is for right hand turn only, most folks in left lane go straight on so its a but tricky if the lights go green and you can't find a nice big gap. I've been known to ride up the inside in the gutter, but thats not much fun.
fizzwheel
13-03-07, 10:02 PM
Yep, I didnt buy a bike to sit in a queue of traffic. As others of said as long as you exercise caution and be aware of muppet lane changers I dont see a problem, especially if you are familiar with the road layout.
If I'm on the bike on the commute home I do this every time. Ride up on the left hand (traffic free) lane, but as you get to the solid stop line swing the bike so it's pointing right, that gives you a head start to 'pop' out in front of the car on the right.
kwak zzr
13-03-07, 10:29 PM
do it cautiously, and you've just added afew more years to your life because you aint sitting in traffic every day.
Without doubt, yes. Simple as.
If I read it right... Always. And its not undertaking, it's filtering.
northwind
14-03-07, 01:20 AM
Without even the slightest thought tbh, it's just sense.
But then I'll filter till the cows come home... Naughty me has filtered at 110.
stuartyboy
14-03-07, 01:47 AM
Didn't I here or read somewhere that cycle lanes will be opened up to bikes?
In answer - yes I do but slowly and carefully.
Throttle pinned fully open, wheeling and pullin stoppies.
northwind
14-03-07, 01:54 AM
Throttle pinned fully open, wheeling and pullin stoppies.
Poofter. I'd jump it.
Poofter. I'd jump it.
Lol, that never occured to me! Next time... just call me Eddie.
But then I'll filter till the cows come home... Naughty me has filtered at 110.
There aint nothing wrong with filtering in the early hours of the morning!
Oh, wait, THAT 110. :oops: :lol:
I'll happily do that too (and do daily, I've also been up the inside of an unmarked cop car at about those speeds :oops:). It's all relative. If traffic is moving at a similar speed, then I'll pass where & when I can (30-40mph difference tops for me).
Sounds like standard operating procedure for london?
Dan
Id go up the outside, but then im mad!! ;)
Id go up the outside, but then im mad!! ;)
He has aready said its narrow so there's going to be no room for you fat lad!
joeheaven
14-03-07, 10:34 AM
I have the same dilemma in reverse every morning, and I'm afraid I do pull a cheeky manouvre. Drivers don't seem to fussed, not sure about plod though. For me it's a choice between bus lane with camera on it (and risk of a fine), or maybe put out the odd impatient car/lorry driver. Simple choice really!
scorpion
14-03-07, 10:53 AM
Do it every day. What's the point of having a bike if you don't?;)
He has aready said its narrow so there's going to be no room for you fat lad!Id be behind you, so youd make the gap
I have the same dilemma in reverse every morning, and I'm afraid I do pull a cheeky manouvre. Drivers don't seem to fussed, not sure about plod though. For me it's a choice between bus lane with camera on it (and risk of a fine), or maybe put out the odd impatient car/lorry driver. Simple choice really!
I wouldn't worry about them tbh. Unless you are doing something dangerous they tend not to bother commuters too much. Obviously, don’t pull wheelies/stoppies, etc when filtering past them. That will get you nicked (isn't that right Johnboy!)
Example – this morning Me, bike with a loud pipe, dark visor, I went past a cop car on the inside going down a bus lane this morning, at about 25-30mph No problems what so ever. It was in my view the safest place to be on that road at that time because:
a) traffic queuing - rear ending risk
b) No room on the outside, there are railings.
c) Huge clear bus lane with only two exits in about 3/4 of a mile.
Dan
joeheaven
14-03-07, 11:49 AM
Thats good to know. Got small indicators, cracked number plate held on with cable ties (new 5x7 ordered, and new tail tidy), and a LOUD EVO.
Dan you Hooligan, you give us sensible quiet, law abiding riders a bad name *shakes fist in anger*
Where's my Art can?... Now that's LOUD!
Captain Nemo
14-03-07, 12:38 PM
i do it everyday, just keep an eye out for cars trying to do them same,
they do get these odd ideas...........
SVeeedy Gonzales
14-03-07, 12:49 PM
Depends on the lights - if there are any/and if there's a filter on them. If there's no filter, there's nothing legally stopping you from using the other lane. If there's a filter on the left hand lane to go in a different direction to the right hand lane then legally you need to cut into the right hand lane traffic as it gets moving (easy on a bike) so you cross the line in the correct lane.
This is dependant on how legal you want to be. This morning it was too much hassle/risk to cut into the lane that had got moving from the lights at the t-junction at the end of my road, so I went onto the other side of the road (no oncoming traffic at these lights), cut the right hand bend and got into the traffic that way. Illegal but a lot safer than the legal option.
Going round the outside of cars needs care - you're at a disadvantage having to cover more ground and if it goes wrong you end up on the plavement. You'll be best positioned to work out what's safest - if it's an old man in a triumph herald you'll probably beat him; if it's johnny chav in his nova it may be better to let him go and move into the space behind him. The second car out usually has a big gap between it and the first car out.
Absolutely, I often use the spare bit of road in front of the white line to place my bike, as long as it's not on a pedestrain crossing obviously haha. I've learnt all the traffic light phases on my commute so I know how long I've got till green so I never actually stop.
I've learnt all the phases too
I'd use the left lane if it's not dedicated.
thedonal
14-03-07, 02:02 PM
I ONLY filter on the left/undertake if the traffic is stationary or if I know that no-one will pull across in front of me. For instance, on the sliproad to the A3 every day, there's normally a gap on the left of the 2 queue's of traffic- they all queue to get onto the dual carriageway at the first possible instant from the sliproad.
However, if I pass this on the left, I can get onto the A3 closer to the end of the slip road and far earlier than just sitting in the queue sandwiched between the waiting traffic and the fast traffic we hope will give us a space. Therefore, as there are no exits/lanes to the left, it's very unlikely that a car will cut across my path (though a car did pull out and undertake this morning! It was well ahead of me though, and I was on the lookout as the gap was so large!)
Therefore, I reckon it's appropriate to filter on the left only when you think it's safe and won't affect any other road user's path/speed etc. You know generally what you feel safe doing!
Dan you Hooligan, you give us sensible quiet, law abiding riders a bad name *shakes fist in anger*
Catford - by the speed camera before the south circular!
I even caught up with a bike copper at the lights ;)
Dan
oldjack
14-03-07, 05:29 PM
Well it looks like 100% yes, so I'd better start doing it then !
Makes me feel a bit of a numpty for being so cautious, like on Millionaire when the ask the audience response is 99% for answer B !
Thanks for the advice orgsters, but if the ground opens up and swallows me or I get smitten by a bolt of lightning I shall hold you all collectively responsible.
northwind
14-03-07, 06:37 PM
Well it looks like 100% yes, so I'd better start doing it then !
Weeeeeeel... There you have it. I never filter into a gap that looks, feels or smells wrong, even if there's nothing obvious wrong. You do have to trust your instincts, IMO, to make safe fast progress... and I reckon it's better to have "false positives" than to start overriding your gut reactions except with the greatest care...
Thanks for the advice orgsters, but if the ground opens up and swallows me or I get smitten by a bolt of lightning I shall hold you all collectively responsible.
May I politely point you to the part of the highway code that says that if you are going to make any manoever, it is you who must make sure it is safe to do so.
We can all say that yes, without question, we would, but in reality, no-one would if it wasn't safe to do so.
When I first started out, I refused to filter period. Compared to that, I'm a positive loony.
Just remember, if you filter fast you will crash fast at some point. Better to arrive late than not to arrive.
thedonal
14-03-07, 07:07 PM
Makes me feel a bit of a numpty for being so cautious
Nar- shouldn't feel like that. Better to be too cautious and still in one piece, than too careless and in bother- light or serious.
Just take it real slow - lest some car driver has the same idea as you!
And every now and then be prepared to go the wrong way cause you're in the wrong lane and cutting in to the right one doesn't feel safe (at least thats what happens to me every now and again!)
Also try to add in some forward planning. If your going for a gap, do you have an escape plan/route if a car decides to pull into that lane? Preferably something slightly more than ****! ****! ****! ****! I’m going to die, grab the front end and wash out on the deck anyway...
Dan
Just out of curiosity... I'm hoping I've read the initial road layout description right...
These are two lanes heading straight ahead, then splitting left and right? Not either lane for oncoming traffic? i.e. dual carriageway?
What happens if you're intending to follow the lane round to the left? You'd treat it like any other lane, keeping an eye out for potential salmon-leapers. I wouldn't be filtering... I'd be using the left hand lane to get to the front and nipping in... :lol:
I agree with Ping :smt040
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