Disappearing posts? [Archive] - SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum

-Ralph-

16-03-07, 01:15 AM

Is anyone else having their posts deleted without any explanation?

I guess your referring to the one about the 1098 which, yep, it would seem to have disappeared.

Probably the title was a wee bit too adult for some of our younger viewers because it had the "sx" word in it (not sure how many of those we really have, but nothing stopping the kids browsing daddy's favorites unsupervised I suppose).

My mates two year old is better at browsing the web than her mother, especially when on cbeebies!

Re-post the same story under a heading with no "sx" -ual reference and it'll probably hang about no probs.

Don't know if these forums have any kind of content filter that automatically deletes posts with certain words, or mibbee the daddy in question complained after he got asked what a "sx" "p" was over dinner by his six year old.

stuartyboy

16-03-07, 01:38 AM

Complete over reaction IMO. I also got hassled by admin the other day because I had two logins.

If I did something wrong then a quiet word would have been appropriate. However it reeks of pure hypocrisy because there have been far worse things said by other members. Filter - naw - just nannying pure and simple.

This forum has gone overboard on political correctness since the "upgrade". We now have U ratings and claims about "effective ownership" of the SV650 brand! Hmm...think suzuki might question that one.

Last but not least - Scotland now appears to be a region - something I take extreme offence at

Tiger 55

16-03-07, 08:46 AM

Last but not least - Scotland now appears to be a region - something I take extreme offence at
Hey, that's one of my pet hates or it was when I was young enough to muster the necessary enthusiasm to hate something. Nowadays I just sort of sigh...

As for the newspeak, I rely on the settings to asterisk out stuff like golf, **** and ******** and then just type away, but I'd like to think my kids could browse the forum without learning any new words.

Don't suppose you've got any links to some of the "far worse" stuff ;)

Tiger 55

16-03-07, 08:48 AM

Hey, we're allowed to say golf! Take that Big Brother.

Jelster

16-03-07, 09:55 AM

stuartyboy

16-03-07, 10:53 AM

Whether it was or wasn't deleted would be up to your regional mod.. Drop one of them a PM and ask (in fact, you can PM more than one person at a time now so I'd do that).

If you think it was close to the mark, why type it ? Sorry, but rules is rules mate..

And "Scotland" isn't a region per se, but unless you are going to have a Highlands group, Edinburgh Group etc then it makes sense to have the whole of your bonny little land covered by a single "Region" for the sake of forum admin...

.

I did drop a pm and got a very poor reply back!

I don't think it was close to the mark at all. It was a humorous post about a test run on a Ducati 1098.

If the filter was setup properly then it would have taken care of any bad words. None were asterisked...end of.

Rules are rules but common sense is common sense and our mod showed none in this instance. All it would have taken was a pm telling to tone it down and no feathers would have been ruffled. Very petty.

Tiger - there's been a couple but I don't want to single them out cos I'd get grief for doing that. Just cannae win.

If there was any consistency then Muzikill's completely innocuous "Dirty dirty leathers ooer" thread would have been deleted too.

Wonder how long before this thread gets deleted?

on yer bike

16-03-07, 11:30 AM

I agree with this going over board, especially with the pointless stuff in brackets appearing all over the place!
I also believe that if a post is being modified or deleted then the member should be notified of what is done, when and why by the mod taking the action... its not asking much really, just a bit of common courtesy really.

16-03-07, 01:04 PM

This forum has gone overboard on political correctness since the "upgrade". We now have U ratings and claims about "effective ownership" of the SV650 brand! Hmm...think suzuki might question that one.

Last but not least - Scotland now appears to be a region - something I take extreme offence at

Um, as far as I'm aware there has always been a U rating applied to the forum's contents.

Likewise SV Ecosse has always been listed under the banner of 'Regional Forums' just like everyone else.
If you're objecting to this is because you would like to see a 'Glasgow Forum' or a 'Highland Forum' for example... then prove there is the need and it may appear (just like the East Anglian section).
If however your objection is down to some kind of 'national pride' then take it somewhere it really matters, rather than a bike forum.

As for the ownership of the 'SV Brand' - bad wording perhaps as it's always been an issue with the 'Org Brand' so to speak. Which does have a distinct history of ownership/guardianship that it pays to show some measure of respect towards.

stuartyboy

16-03-07, 03:17 PM

:rolleyes: Hmm...national pride....it pays to show some measure of respect towards....

That'll be the same respect the particular mod showed to its members then!

sigh

16-03-07, 03:39 PM

:rolleyes: Hmm...national pride....it pays to show some measure of respect towards....

That'll be the same respect the particular mod showed to its members then!

sigh

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand this clipped together post.
I can understand if you feel agrieved that there was a lack of, how shall we say 'equality of respect', shown between a moderator and yourself...

... but please explain the first part?
I'm not being bitchy or anything by the way - I genuinely don't get what you are trying to say and only wish to understand the situation, or rather your point of view, correctly.

fizzwheel

16-03-07, 03:45 PM

That'll be the same respect the particular mod showed to its members then!

sigh

Oh dear...

With respect, If the poster ( I dont know who it was ) had given some thought to the thread title in the first place then it wouldnt have required Mod intervention in the first place. Moaning on that the sweary word filter doesnt work properly is just dodging the problem. If people thought about what they wanted to post before they posted it, we wouldnt need it in the first place. We've had a U rating since I joined the forum at the end of 2003, nothings changed in that respect.

Moaning on about it and heavy handed moderation isnt going to get anybody anywhere and all it does is cause discontent and spread bad feeling.

Just accept it and remember for next time that we have a set of rules and that they are there for a reason even if you might not know what that reason is. I get sick of explaining the rules to be people who can't be bothered to follow them so I tend to just edit / delete stuff as I see fit. Its sometimes difficult to find a balance and sometimes I dont always get it right ( hey I'm human after all )

If whoever had posted that thread had done so in any of the other sections of the forum, the outcome ( it being deleted ) would have been just the same and no they probably wouldnt have been told about it either.

Tiger 55

16-03-07, 04:09 PM

Yeah, I'd go along with that Fizzwheel but, at the risk of thread creep, K's instruction to take our national pride somewhere it really matters is pretty rude to say the least.

They might not go for pride in their country much down Northampton way but we're really quite keen on it up here.

Could be worse of course, the good people of Ulster have to share their 'region' with a foreign country while the poor old Welsh just get ignored!

It'll be the Cornish next, you mark my words...

16-03-07, 04:40 PM

I appologise if you felt I was being rude - but it's not like I said your national pride didn't matter now was it?
Merely that its mention in this context was not entirely appropriate... perhaps that is what I should have typed the first time, again, appologies.

As for Northampton, well, where you live is not always indicative of who your are... or where you're from.

the white rabbit

16-03-07, 04:41 PM

S&WS is for the South and West of the UK, a huge area. Its spans borders and we all get along just fine. Thanks for worrying.

stuartyboy

16-03-07, 05:33 PM

Oh dear...

With respect, If the poster ( I dont know who it was ) had given some thought to the thread title in the first place then it wouldnt have required Mod intervention in the first place. ........

Moaning on about it and heavy handed moderation isnt going to get anybody anywhere and all it does is cause discontent and spread bad feeling.

.....

If whoever had posted that thread had done so in any of the other sections of the forum, the outcome ( it being deleted ) would have been just the same and no they probably wouldnt have been told about it either.

Fizzwheel - it was me that made the original post and it wasn't bad at all. I did give it some thought because I'd seen similar posts before. Infact there's one on this very forum from Muzikill so I have good basis for my thread. Mine's was no different to muzikills - a simple tongue in cheek post about a test ride - or did I miss something?

Cronos deleted it - no explanation. I asked him why and I got a ridiculous excuse back.

If Cronos is going to delete threads like mine then he should at least be consistent and have the courtesy to say why. If he can't show consistency then should he be moderating our forum at all?

You are 100% correct - heavy handed moderation is pointless and breeds resentment. All I said was a bit of common sense would have went a long way.

As for posts on other threads - I've seen similar so where do we draw the line?

stuartyboy

16-03-07, 05:42 PM

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand this clipped together post.
I can understand if you feel agrieved that there was a lack of, how shall we say 'equality of respect', shown between a moderator and yourself...

... but please explain the first part?
I'm not being bitchy or anything by the way - I genuinely don't get what you are trying to say and only wish to understand the situation, or rather your point of view, correctly.

IMO there was no respect shown to me. My last post explains it well enough.

I think tiger summed it up...It's not just offensive to Scots - its offensive to English, Irish & Welsh people living in Scotland too.

16-03-07, 06:10 PM

on yer bike

16-03-07, 06:34 PM

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just being really dumb here, but what has national pride got to do with respect shown between a moderator and a member whose post has been deleted?
The post was deleted (I gather) due to contravention of the U rating... where does national pride come into that?
Am I missing something? Are you accusing an English moderator of picking on a Scottish post/poster?
I'm confused here.

I think you're mixing up the two different issues, there was one with the nanny state this forum has become of recent times... then there was a little "moan" about us scots being classed as a region.

Tiger 55

16-03-07, 06:39 PM

I appologise
Cheerfully accepted, no harm done :smt058

S&WS is for the South and West of the UK, a huge area. Its spans borders and we all get along just fine. Thanks for worrying.
Oh I'm not much of a worrier me, but seriously, watch out for the Kingdom of Kernow. Splitters!

-Ralph-

16-03-07, 06:50 PM

Can't say our "region" doesn't generate some interesting threads eh! ;)

Us scots have always prided ourselves on saying what we think! It's how we all get along so well regardless of where we are in the world - everyone knows where they stand! Can we have an emoticon with a kilt and bagpipes please??

16-03-07, 06:52 PM

Likewise SV Ecosse has always been listed under the banner of 'Regional Forums' just like everyone else.
If you're objecting to this is because you would like to see a 'Glasgow Forum' or a 'Highland Forum' for example... then prove there is the need and it may appear (just like the East Anglian section).
If however your objection is down to some kind of 'national pride' then take it somewhere it really matters, rather than a bike forum.

As for the ownership of the 'SV Brand' - bad wording perhaps as it's always been an issue with the 'Org Brand' so to speak. Which does have a distinct history of ownership/guardianship that it pays to show some measure of respect towards.

:rolleyes: Hmm...national pride....it pays to show some measure of respect towards....

That'll be the same respect the particular mod showed to its members then!

sigh

I think you're mixing up the two different issues, there was one with the nanny state this forum has become of recent times... then there was a little "moan" about us scots being classed as a region.
Onyerbike, as you can see above, I had the two ('respect' and 'national pride') as two separate issues - it was Stuartyboy's reply that put them together... therein lays my confusion.

kitkat

16-03-07, 07:05 PM

wod things are getting heated. I being a jock myself fail to see having scotland as a region is a problem. when i originally joined the forum in 2004 there were not many of us jocks, there are bucket loads now. if that is all there is to moan about then we are doing ok. what about the weather always something to moan about

fizzwheel

16-03-07, 07:07 PM

Umh...

OK seems like some of you are feeling disgruntled still, which for everybody is not a good place to be. I respect the straight forward and open say what you mean approach.

OK I have some sympathy for those of you that feel that certain sections of the forum are over moderated. I dont agree about it being a nanny state though. I've been reading some of your threads, plenty of fun, some innuendo a bit of flirting and plenty of banter from the looks of it, exactly as it should be. Seems like this whole section is being looked after as it should be to me.

I dont want and will not critise another moderator, we're all a team and we all work together for the good of the site. Its a hard job job to do and like I've said its hard to find a balance sometimes. Whenever I've spoken to Cronos about mod stuff, he's always seemed to have a sensible view point on things. He seemed a thorougly decent sort of chap when I spoke to him at the AR last year.

The U rating is there for a simple reason to keep the site work safe. Yes it has the added advantage that its child safe to. But for me its important that the forum is accessable to those of us who have day jobs to ;) A few naughty words is all it can take to trigger a web filter to ban access to a website. I dont want that to happen I'm sure you dont either, we all need a break from the druge of work now and again would you not say ?

I have an issue with explaning my actions, If I explained myself to every forum user who's posts I've modded / deleted etc I'd spend all my day PM'ing people, most people seem to be OK with a mod taking action, yet here we are with a few of you not happy. Its not my section of the forum so theres not a lot I can do. It would seem though theres some trouble in the ranks as it were, and from the looks of it, its the same 2 - 3 people that are being vocal in this. I'm wandering if theres more to the bad feeling than is being let on about ?

Its your section, so I'll throw it over to you, what would you have us as a team of mods do about it.

-Ralph-

16-03-07, 09:04 PM

Umh...

OK seems like some of you are feeling disgruntled still, which for everybody is not a good place to be. I respect the straight forward and open say what you mean approach.

Personally not disgruntled, so don't worry about that. National pride matters full stop, so I have to admit to having a frown when I read that particular post, but, hey! The guy has had the balls to admit he phrased it badly (we've all done that) and apologise, so it's completely forgiven.

I think most folk would also realise that this forum covers the whole of the UK and so you have to categorise the localised groups somehow and call them something, be it regions, sections, clubs or regiments! Having the same number of folk in London alone, as we have in Scotland, you couldn't do it with countries 'cos the England section would be so big it wouldn't be localised, hence defeating the object.

So I really couldn't give a hoot how the joint is carved up or what we decide to call the slices. Never going to please everybody is it!

I'll try to explain one of the reasons why many Scots get sensitive about national pride -

We have a general problem up here with folk thinking we're "just wee region way up north". At work I'm having hell trying to get IBM to run a training course anywhere north of Newcastle. The guys in London who schedule the training just don't think there is a necessity, despite hundreds of folk hammering on the doors at IBM in Greenock crying out for training to sell and implement IBM products. They are so convinced that Scotland not is big enough to make it worthwhile, that they are not even prepared to consider it. If it's worthwhile running weekly courses for 6 million Londoners, why is it not worthwhile running at least quarterly courses for 6 million Scots?

A lot of folk down south just don't realise that it takes 7 -8 hours to drive from John O Groats to Carlisle. Scotland is a big, big, place - nearly as big as England (Get British Isles map out, the borders runs from Berwick upon Tweed to Carlisle, a lot of folk split the UK in their head at the next narrow point, between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Weather maps that folk see every day don't help either, they are not to scale). Whilst not as heavily populated, we have a significant population, London is significant is it not? Lots of Scots will have very similar stories to mine above that they could tell, where they face the same attitudes on a daily basis. Eventually it grinds you down and ordinary sound people get ****ed off.

I'll admit that some Scots can develop or grow up with counter productive attitudes that no self respecting Scot is proud of - England shirt wearers getting beaten up, etc, etc, but you get chip on the shoulder :toss: 'ers in every country. I'm talking about ordinary decent folk getting jacked off with it.

So when folk say things like "take the national pride where it matters", it's really getting shoved in your face, and you can understand the reaction. So K, you have apologised and it's absolutely forgiven mate, but sorry, i had to quote it again to make my point, now it's forgotten too. I'll buy you a pint if your coming to AR07.

fizzwheel

16-03-07, 09:31 PM

Umh again ;) The national pride thing I understand. One of my best friends is a Scot, she comes from Kirkcudbright ( I hope I spelled that right ) I've been up in that area a few times. Its a beautiful place. Been to Edinburgh ( full of students and snobs ) and Glasgow ( much nicer IMHO ) Kept myself to myself and I have to say couldnt have asked for a friendlier reception. Except for one guy using "Pal" in my general direction with alot of tone on it. I think the Scots and the Welsh have much more pride in their country and heritage than us English do.

I particularly remember going to Edinburgh in 2004 when the world cup was on. It was a fine show of p*ss taking that when England were playing Brazil, alot of Scots were wandering around wearing Brazilian football shirts. I'm not sure if I was meant to but I found it hilarious. ( I'm not a footie fan )

If you guys want and can justify it, I can't see a problem with chopping your section up a little more, if thats what you guys want ?

But I think the issue with that particular comment is all resolved now ? Oh and K is a lady so she hasnt got balls but I'mm sure she'll take a drink off you are the AR :D

What I posted was more of a general. "A few of you seem unhappy about that way the sites being run, so what can we do about it" The forum is made or broken by the people that use it. You guys make it what it is. From what I'm reading its the U rating and how its being moderated thats caused this, or am I missing something ?

-Ralph-

16-03-07, 10:03 PM

alot of Scots were wandering around wearing Brazilian football shirts

If you guys want and can justify it, I can't see a problem with chopping your section up a little more, if thats what you guys want ?

Ha ha, what football team to support? Well when Scotland get knocked out we have to support somebody! I'm not even going to try and comment on why in popular opinion it's any team but England, there's only one way that debate can go!

I think Sv Ecosse works just nicely and wouldn't want to change it. It's more being classified a "region" not a country that struck a sore nerve, rather than wanting regions within Scotland. But like I said, I don't care what we call the slices. What classification we have in sv650.org doesn't change who we really are now does it! ;)

Sorry K, make those metaphorical balls!

on yer bike

16-03-07, 10:05 PM

If you guys want and can justify it, I can't see a problem with chopping your section up a little more, if thats what you guys want ?
I dont think its nessesary as we're just as small as the other places mentioned, i think it's because the word 'region', makes us feel like we're just a small part of england up at the top, forgotten about.. and this upsets us being made to feel small. :smt019

stuartyboy

17-03-07, 12:29 AM

Freeeeeeeeeeeeedddoooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!! !!!!

stuartyboy

17-03-07, 12:57 AM

...From what I'm reading its the U rating and how its being moderated thats caused this, or am I missing something ?

Fizz - not so much the U rating - more down to the mod's inconsistency.

The story is as simple as this...two threads started on the same day on SVEccosse. Both had fruity titles but not breaking the rules. One gets pulled (mine) the other doesn't. Mines was a post about a test ride I had on the new ducati the other a post about cleaning leathers.

I've never met the guy or even exchanged emails with him so there's no history.

A simple PM is all it would have took if something offended him and the thread could have been edited. Simple as that.

is gonna delete stuff then fair enough but treat everyone the same and at least tell us why so that we dont make the same mistake twice.

Tiger 55

17-03-07, 08:51 AM

The U rating is there for a simple reason to keep the site work safe. A few naughty words is all it can take to trigger a web filter to ban access to a website.
I never even thought of that :oops: No, that would be a disaster. Whatever it was I used to do at work before I discovered this forum, I don't want to go back to it.

Been to Edinburgh ( full of students and snobs ) and Glasgow ( much nicer IMHO )
Oh now you're just stirring up unrest, trying to divide and conquer. True though :)

If you guys want and can justify it, I can't see a problem with chopping your section up a little more, if thats what you guys want ?
No, I'm with Ralph and OYB on this one, it's not the section gepgraphy it's just the word region:smt064 gets us going from time to time. Changing the sub forum to just "Clubs and Get Togethers" would solve that problem at a stroke but I don't think anybody is agitating for that. And like I say, could be worse, could be Irish, Welsh or Cornish ;)

And K, I sexistly asssumed you were a bloke too for which I unreservedly apologise. Um, I will have to take this :smt058 back though, Mrs Tiger will kill me!

kitkat

17-03-07, 08:57 AM

i would say cronos probably deleted post as it was a wee bit rude. if he waited to send a pm to you and for you to edit it could have taken ages. I presume he sent a pm advising that it was deleted. give the guy a break its a thankless task being a moderator and cronos is a good guy. and when you speak to him you will realise he used more inuendos than most. he is a dirty dirty boy lol

hovis

17-03-07, 08:59 AM

:grouphug: :grouphug: stop your whinging about being called a region.......... its not the end of the world is it? & you probally havent got enough members to go splitting it up into more regions........... we all know scotland is a country ( i was tempted to miss the R out;) )

us welshys dont even get a mention, we have to be labeled south west (not even a mention of wales):smt089 untill we formed a splinter group THE TAFFIA

but its all good...................... play nice

:grouphug: :grouphug:

17-03-07, 09:28 AM

Heh heh - bloke or bird, it rarely matters - when I'm here I'm just a biker.

I s'pose that's part of my point too - I could get all sexist or go overboard defending my gender or even get riled up and feel insulted...

... but why? It doesn't matter here, on the Org. I'm a biker, on a biking forum.

That's my attitude - but perhaps it's one that means I also get genuinely curious as to the motivations of others when their attitude it different. Because I see no reason to bring my sex into an issue I wonder why others feel the need to bring similar 'alligences or prejudices' with them.

I'm not say that either attitude is right or wrong - merely stating the one I have and inquiring about others in an effort to understand better.

Perhaps I'm just too curious me. But then it's a trait that dangerous to cats rather than people yes? ;)

For the record, the historical basis behind most national pride is something that interests me a great deal. I mean, go back far enough and you really ought to keep sctum incase you get sent back to Ireland, and most of England gets given back to the Welsh.;)

-Ralph-

17-03-07, 09:41 AM

I mean, go back far enough and you really ought to keep sctum incase you get sent back to Ireland.;)

Nah, just the Celts and Scots that'd get sent back to Ireland! Us Picts got here first!

Now were really gonna start a fight!! :smt014 ;)

Tiger 55

17-03-07, 11:17 AM

Thank you Cronos.
its a thankless task being a moderator
No it isn't!
stop your whinging.......us welshys dont even get a mention, we have to be labeled south west
Well that's because you don't whinge enough ;)
the South and West of the UK, a huge area. Its spans borders and we all get along just fine.
Of course you do, you're all part of one of the greatest Orgs on the net, dedicated to one of the finest bikes of the last decade :grouphug: , but how often do the peeps from Prestatyn meet the peeps from Penzance? The peeps from Flint and Falmouth? Ryhl and Redruth? Well, about as often as the peeps from Langholm meet the peeps from Lerwick I suppose but that's beside, um, well no it's not beside the point is it? Buggered my own argment there. :(

Actually, I am genuinely surprised The Taffia haven't broken away but I imagine it saves you from having all those "Oh ignore him, what does a South Walian know about music?" type conversations...

Jdubya

17-03-07, 11:27 AM

'Ello ello ello this little argument reminds me of a christmas party I once went to...;)

Tiger 55

17-03-07, 11:35 AM

this little argument reminds me of a christmas party I once went to...
Ho! Joe ****ing London! You spilled my pint pal.

Jdubya

17-03-07, 11:37 AM

Ho! Joe ****ing London! You spilled my pint pal.
Actually the party was in S6...and I'm JO ****ing South African to you PAL!:p

Tiger 55

17-03-07, 11:52 AM

I'm JO ****ing South African to you PAL!:p
Oh, right, sorry big man, no offence mate, hierdie heer sal alles betaal.

the white rabbit

17-03-07, 11:58 AM

The S&Ws arnt a good model really because the main welshy area and one of the larger english bits are very close, about 20 mins from each other over the severn bridge. So the Bristol centric and cardiff centric folks spend a lot of their time together. Its the cornish and people from down Grinch and Scoobs' way who are a bit polarised, but then they have their own meets, Poole Quay etc and sometimes we go there. For us it seems to work, but I appreciate the geographics probably dont elsewhere. But it would sad for us say to split and I dont think/hope we never will.

On the other issue, I can appreciate that sometimes the fine balancing act keeping this place under control goes a little of course.

But down to the most important thing about this post

Heh heh - bloke or bird, it rarely matters -

:shock: Fantastic! :lol:

17-03-07, 01:33 PM

With regard to the balancing act of Moderating, and to perhaps give a measure of explaination to Stuartyboy, I gather there was a difference to the two threads to which he is refering.

Whilst 'Dirty Leathers' did contain a certain amount of innuendo, the title of your [Stuartyboy] thread was a tad more explicit. True, not in a blatently obvious sense, but certainly in a manner that a child's enquiring mind would have little difficulty in spotting.

True, a very minor difference - but in this case it was perhaps enough to be cause for moderation.

Beyond that - how the moderation was carried out is an issue for the moderator in question. A grienvance that should perhaps have been better conducted via PM - after all, if you have a problem with the site, Pm the section's Mod...

... but beyond that if you have a problem with a Mod, PM Admin. There is a 'level higher' that could have been utilised. Just food for thought.

As for the Picts - if I recall correctly even they were originally of Irish extraction. The final stronghold of the ancient Britons was mid/North wales. South Wales and Cornwall being subjected to more of a Saxon mix later on.

But let's face it - at the end of the day...

... we all hate the French! ;) (So sock it to em in the Rugby eh!)

on yer bike

17-03-07, 01:41 PM

But let's face it - at the end of the day...

... we all hate the French! ;)

Yeah, I'l drink to that!
:rave:

Law

17-03-07, 01:47 PM

But let's face it - at the end of the day...

... we all hate the French! ;) (So sock it to em in the Rugby eh!)

*cough* William the Conqueror. *cough*

17-03-07, 02:02 PM

*cough* William the Conqueror. *cough*

He got lucky. ;) But also brought with him an air of superiority that carried through to even his soldiers, meaning that the Normans had little impact on the greater population in a genetic sense. Nobility, yes to an extent, but the vast majority of the population is still far closer to their Nordic ancestors than to the French.

It was a similar story when the Romans invaded - they set themselves apart so whilst aspects of their lifestyle were adopted, they had little impact regarding a genetic legacy.

This is one of the reason I find this subject interesting - as more often than not, within the British Isles, national identity stems more from rule of propoganda than from genetic heritage. Whereas if you look to other areas of Europe, the Middle and Far East and the Slavic states it is often the other way round.

Tiger 55

17-03-07, 02:33 PM

Is anyone else having their posts deleted without any explanation?

within the British Isles, national identity stems more from rule of propoganda than from genetic heritage.

Now that's what I call thread creep!

stuartyboy

17-03-07, 06:15 PM

the title of your [Stuartyboy] thread was a tad more explicit. True, not in a blatently obvious sense, but certainly in a manner that a child's enquiring mind would have little difficulty in spotting.

Er...no it wasn't...It wasn't explicit at all so can we please stop blowing it out of proportion.

As for kids spotting stuff - there are hundreds of posts on here (and I'm guilty too) about "riding", "getting a good ride", riding positions that any kid could have little difficulty spotting. These should all be deleted if the same rules were being applied.

Mark my words they'll be banning feck next!

I thought we were bikers - not some branch of the WI or Sunday School group. If I wanted to subscribe to cbeebies then I would have.

Kitkat - I said right from the start I never got any warning, reply or explanation.

K - in answer to the region thing - it was added because it was the first thing I noticed when it was upgraded. I was sure that it just said clubs/get togethers before but if I'm wrong then sorry.

Ever since the upgrade the forum seems to have went PC mad. I always write the same drivel and the nature of my posts has never changed - double entendre or otherwise. I am a gregarious person but I'm not a trouble maker. I make my point and I'm happy to back it up or back down. I was very surprised when my post was deleted hence my reaction.

As for removing my post - I maintain it was extremely petty. The post itself was developing into a good conversation about a ducati. I just used my used own way of expressing how fantastic the bike was. A little common sense by tyhe mod and this could have been avoided.

As for the U rating helping people read the forum at work....I'm puzzled. I work in IT and I write stuff for some big companies. I've developed software projects in conjuction with the police force so I know a bit about how the work based screening works. Case in point being the BBC - there's sections on dogging, porn and even advice on how to perform anal sex properly. I just don't get why the site would be banned from big organisations. I've been onsite at some very uppity companies and it gets through no problems..

As for children - I have big issues with this. Kids aren't old enough to ride bikes and they certainly shouldn't be reading stuff about riders tanking on at 140mph on public roads, wheelying, stoppying etc. Imagine someone's kid at school their mates "my dad was on this website and he does 140mph on the road then went "riding" phnarr phnarr with a girl on the site". mate tells his mum, his mum tells her mates, mates dob in wee boy to teacher...social work calls round etc etc. Trust me things like this have happened before!

If the mods are worried about kids getting on here then stick a big sign on the front saying "Advisory content - parental consent" or more simply - turn off public viewing.

I seem to have sparked a debate - rightly or wrongly. I've been extremely stressed and touchy recently because of my Dad's illness but at the end of the day I'm here for bike chat and banter with the good mates i've met.

Hopefully we can put this to rest and move on in good spirits.

on yer bike

17-03-07, 06:27 PM

I'm here for bike chat and banter with the good mates i've met.

Hopefully we can put this to rest and move on in good spirits.

hear hear!

-Ralph-

17-03-07, 06:35 PM

As for the Picts - if I recall correctly even they were originally of Irish extraction.

But let's face it - at the end of the day...

... we all hate the French! ;)

There are those historians who claim the Picts were of Irish decent, but this is generally regarded now as a more of a heresy orginating from the Roman invasion. Others claim Gaullish or Iberian decendancy, but most historians simply say the origin is "unknown" because its too far back in time to prove anything conclusively. European in orgin is that most argued however. What is not really doubted is that they were the earliest known inhabitants of Scotland, although being tribal in nature they weren't really and wouldn't have classified themselves as one and the same race.

The history channels brief description..
http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/search/search_new.php?word=Picts

And quite interesting for anyone who wants a cronological history in one page....
http://www.gwp.enta.net/scothist.htm

We don't all hate the French, Auld Alliance and all that, in fact I married one!

Tiger 55

17-03-07, 06:35 PM

I always write the same drivel
Hear hear!

Just kidding Stuart :smt058

-Ralph-

17-03-07, 06:45 PM

hear hear!

Hear hear - on the explict, mod related stuff.

Can we keep arguing about everything else though please? Thread creep's the reason I love this site.

Grinch

17-03-07, 09:54 PM

God! and I thought it was us English that the Ozzy's called whinging poms.

On and the other reason its U rated is so that people can read it during there lunch break at work. Anyway, just cus in one place you seem 'rindin' and else where you don't its all down to that mod. Some of us miss things and some of us don't. The last one I modded heavy was about a well know late night activity, and the bloke still talks about it.

Oh darn, now I'm moaning... oh and yes I know I'm not from Scotland, but I do visit there and I have family up that way too.

So why do we hate the French again?

kitkat

17-03-07, 09:55 PM

Kitkat - I said right from the start I never got any warning, reply or explanation.

sorreeeeee :( thats me put firmly back in my box - note to self dont reply to posts when you have not completely read all the crap contained therein

Blue Flame

18-03-07, 02:47 AM

OK i've been holdin my breath but im sick of this.:(

I've never met the guy or even exchanged emails with him so there's no history

This is where it all falls down for me.

You originally did the right thing. You complained about the post that you felt was unjustly deleted..........but then you get a response back that you don't like....... And because of that decide to publicly flay the moderator???

Why did you feel that you had to react in that manner ????

I have met you once Stuart and you seemed an OK guy, I have also met Cronos a number of times and he is an absolutley stand up guy. He is good company, backs you up if you are in bother and i for one do not appreciate the comments you have made on this site about him.

Please do not go about publicly putting somebody down who you have made a snap judgement about simply because one of your posts has been deleted. I am sure that I speak for a number of the "longer in the tooth" members of this site when I make these comments.

Hopefully we can put this to rest and move on in good spirits.

And i hope you can.... but i see nothin in the posts that shows any sort of regret for the way you have treated the original target of this post who given the position he is in has not got the luxury of being able to respond to this apparant vitriolic attack.

I am not a person that posts particularily often on this site. I tend to lurk more than i post ;) but I have seen a disturbing series of posts recently on 'SV Ecosse' (My idea that name by the way.... ha) and i hope its just the 'silly season' There is too much anger.

And, by the way, all this Nationalistic crap that has been spouted in this post just makes us Scots look like a bunch of whingers. Get a life this is a biking site and not an SNP forum.

Goodnight and godbless x x x

18-03-07, 09:09 AM

Can we keep arguing about everything else though please? Thread creep's the reason I love this site.

OK then - Leaving origins aside and drawing a line for the moment (very loosely) within the 'Medieval' period, it's interesting to find that much of the Scottish driven aggrivation was not purely based on self-rule and independance... but on also rule of the English too.
Whereas during a similar period the Welsh had no further aspirations that maintainence and recognition for their own line of succession.

Lets face it - if Llewellyn had bitten the bullet and gone on bended knee to the crown there is a distinct possibility that Wales would have not only retained a 'Native Prince' - but also be in a far stronger position to have built on its status as a Principality that could, in all likelyhood, have meant self-rule (or a far greater level of it) by now.

So coming back to the motivation behind such 'National Pride' - some could say that for the Welsh there is a purer basis for motive than for the Scottish - who were far more subjected to the political games of others, with aspirations beyond Scottish independance.:smt064

Did such stoking of the fire lead to the seemingly greater vocality of the Scots... given that, predominently, the Welsh answer was to quietly change the road signs and retain a different language in their schools. ;)

-Ralph-

18-03-07, 11:02 AM

And, by the way, all this Nationalistic crap that has been spouted in this post just makes us Scots look like a bunch of whingers. Get a life this is a biking site and not an SNP forum.

Not having a go at you in particular Blue Flame, so please don't take it that way, I've just used your post to quote something, because you just happen to be the last person to have repeated it.

And I'm not referring to rest of your thread at all either, whatever my opinion over whether Stuartyboy has has acted badly or not, I'm not going to post it on a public forum. If Stuartyboy chooses to ask my opinion one day in the pub I'll tell him face to face. Personally I hope the whole Cronos thing is not mentioned again, people posting opinions about it only serves to keep an ugly argument (which Cronos has to read and moderate!) alive.

A couple of have now mentioned in this post that the nationalism is crap. One mans crap is another mans pride. We have to be a bit tolerant of other peoples opinions, don't shoot those opinions down, especially on emotive issues, and understand that different people feel differently about things. For me the nationalism is not crap, a lot of people feel that it's an important part of thier identity.

:( :( :( :( :(

A couple of folk have also said that this is a biking site. Does that mean that we're only allowed to discuss bikes and biking? :confused: Can't we discuss the SNP, or Scottish history, or the latest film at the cinema, if thats what takes our fancy? If those folk are not interested, move on to the next thread and let those that want ot chat get on with it. I've quite a few biking mates, because bikes is what brings us together, but life would be pretty boring if thats all we ever talked about. Does anybody else feel that we should only be discussing bikes on here? If so please say so, the forum belongs to it's members and if the majority prefer to keep it to biking I'll oblige.

fizzwheel

18-03-07, 11:35 AM

I seem to have sparked a debate - rightly or wrongly. I've been extremely stressed and touchy recently because of my Dad's illness but at the end of the day I'm here for bike chat and banter with the good mates i've met.

Hopefully we can put this to rest and move on in good spirits.

Debate is all good if you ask me. I've found before when threads like this have happened in Idle Banter, its better to get everything out in the open rather than try and stifle this kind of conversation otherwise resentment / trouble just builds up even more and more.

I agree, time to put it to rest and move on. I don't think this particular issue is ever going to resolve itself properly. Especially with Cronos not being here to defend himself. I think theres some lessons here for everybody on both sides of the fence to learn perhaps ?

As I've said before, think before you post, what you might think is OK, other people might find offensive. Thats all we're asking for some thought and a little common sense to be exercised.

-Ralph-

18-03-07, 11:39 AM

OK then - Leaving origins aside and drawing a line for the moment (very loosely) within the 'Medieval' period, it's interesting to find that much of the Scottish driven aggrivation was not purely based on self-rule and independance... but on also rule of the English too.
Whereas during a similar period the Welsh had no further aspirations that maintainence and recognition for their own line of succession.

Lets face it - if Llewellyn had bitten the bullet and gone on bended knee to the crown there is a distinct possibility that Wales would have not only retained a 'Native Prince' - but also be in a far stronger position to have built on its status as a Principality that could, in all likelyhood, have meant self-rule (or a far greater level of it) by now.

So coming back to the motivation behind such 'National Pride' - some could say that for the Welsh there is a purer basis for motive than for the Scottish - who were far more subjected to the political games of others, with aspirations beyond Scottish independance.:smt064

Did such stoking of the fire lead to the seemingly greater vocality of the Scots... given that, predominently, the Welsh answer was to quietly change the road signs and retain a different language in their schools. ;)

Your loosing me a bit now with the Medieval stuff and Llewellyn. Good points well made though. The Welsh were closer to London and easier to cause trouble for logistically. The Welsh have done well to maintain thier identity quietly through the back door, and perhaps we should have done the same, but its just not in the Scots character to do things quietly.

It's a character I am proud of, if there's one thing I hate it's two faced'ness and unspoken resentment, which doesn't tend to happen so much in Scotland thanks to the strong, unreserved, character of the people. It does lead more reserved nations to think we are brash troublemakers, but I think it means internally we all get on together better. Having moved 31 times in my 31 years, and spent 8 months of the year in England and 4 months in Scotland all my life (hence this screwed up half English RAF kid style accent of mine that the rest of my family love taking the **** out of!), I see clear difference in the culture and the people (comparing neighbors, friends, etc). Of couse this is generalistic and doesn't apply to everyone, but I think it is in the main true and not simply a stereotyping exercise.

I think you are absolutely right that the rule of the English had a lot to do with the development of that character.

Tiger 55

18-03-07, 01:08 PM

I thought it was us English that the Ozzy's called whinging poms.
You're right, it is.;)
So why do we hate the French again?
They let Hitler walk into Paris without firing a shot and tried to blame us?
I am not a person that posts particularily often on this site. I tend to lurk more than i post ;) but
but every now and again I'll jump in at 3 o'clock in the morning, insult some people and go to bed...
'SV Ecosse' (My idea that name by the way.... ha)
Cracking idea! I like it, reminds me of the stickers people put on their cars for trips to Europe, you know, so foreign peeps know they're not English :)
And, by the way, all this Nationalistic crap that has been spouted in this post just makes us Scots look like a bunch of whingers. Get a life
Get a life? Seriously? That's your way of taking the anger out of the thread? Put that down to the bevvy I think and no offence taken.

And for the record I have also lived in England - Newcastle, Yorkshire, Southampton, Sussex, Cornwall - all over the shop and they are lovely, lovely people (when they're not winning at rugby) and I adore them as a nation, but they are different from us. That's cool by the way, be a dull old forum if everybody was the same :D :D

Blue Flame

18-03-07, 05:18 PM

3AM or 5PM it makes no odds to me. ;)

This is I think another example of where written words do not necessarily convey the message in the spirit in which it was intended.

I think and I hope that the main point of my post about a desire for me not to read negative posts about other members of this site has been understood. I don't have any axes to grind with anybody. Harmony is all I wanna see.

The "Get a life" reference was not meant to be insulting. I have no issues with anybody talking about other subject matters than biking I simply was trying to imply (not probably very well i admit) that the way some of the points have been raised looks (to me) like it is 'whinging'.

Prob why I don't post that often so i'll scurry back down that hole i came from. :)

Tiger 55

18-03-07, 08:00 PM

3AM or 5PM it makes no odds to me. ;)
Good man, stout fellow! That's the spirit! Partial to a little snifter in the afternoon myself, sun over the yardarm and all that. Part of what makes Britain great.

Don't go down your hole Blue, it literally wouldn't be SV Ecosse without you :D

Blue Flame

18-03-07, 09:51 PM

Don't go down your hole Blue, it literally wouldn't be SV Ecosse without you :D

:D

Viney

19-03-07, 02:56 PM

God! and I thought it was us English that the Ozzy's called whinging poms.Its Aussies..yah Whinging pom!

stuartyboy

20-03-07, 02:00 AM

OK i've been holdin my breath but im sick of this.:(

This is where it all falls down for me.

You originally did the right thing. You complained about the post that you felt was unjustly deleted..........but then you get a response back that you don't like....... And because of that decide to publicly flay the moderator???

Why did you feel that you had to react in that manner ????

I reacted in the manner I did because I'm human (and apparently very touchy because of my dad)

How many more times - I never got a reply. I posted it BECAUSE I never got a reply. WHEN I got a reply the thread had already started. I've apologised for it.

As for the the history quote -- someone who pm'd thought there was history. I only said there wasn't.

And i hope you can.... but i see nothin in the posts that shows any sort of regret for the way you have treated the original target of this post who given the position he is in has not got the luxury of being able to respond to this apparant vitriolic attack.

I've already asked for this thread to move on so why start things all over again?

How do you know I don't regret it? I've apologised. The mod still hasn't replied to the last PM I sent - not much regret there then.

There was nothing stopping the mod having his say or explaining things - it might have diffused things and helped everybody.

I made one tongue in cheek post about a test ride in a ducati. To me it was extremely important because for the first time in weeks I had something to be positive about. When it was deleted for no reason it was like a kick in the ******** - especially when a similar post was kept in.

My dad passed away, I'm drained, I'm gutted, I'm done with explaining this thread.