For those more technically minded than me...

[andyaikido]

Why is neutral between 1st and 2nd gear?

I can't think of any reason why it can't be below 1st, then it wouldn't interfer when changing from 1st to 2nd.

And while I'm here, why isn't race shift pattern standard on bikes yet?

I know it's a traditional thing with road bikes but the gear change used to be on the right foot or even done by hand and no one's doing that anymore (Enfields aside).

[muffles]

one thing i was told by my instructor when i was learning was that you only ever know for definite what gear you are in when you are in 1st or top (since you just click all the way to the top or bottom).

might be that it's more useful to know about 1st & top than neutral & top?

[northwind]

Because when you're shifting down the box you don't want to go into neutral when you think you're still going to be in gear- suddenly, no engine braking and no drive.

As for GP shift, I've tried it but I found it annoying- there's not really any time on track when you need to shift down urgently, but on the road you often want to drop a gear in a hurry. There's cases for both but the hassle of having 2 different systems out there for, what, the next 10 years until the new bikes became the majority would be a pain in the bum I<P

[Ed]

one thing i was told by my instructor when i was learning was that you only ever know for definite what gear you are in when you are in 1st or top (since you just click all the way to the top or bottom).


Really? I can tell by the revs and the engine noise, and besides I count through the box. I rarely use 5th and 6th anyway, all the fun's in 3rd and 4th.

[muffles]

Really? I can tell by the revs and the engine noise, and besides I count through the box. I rarely use 5th and 6th anyway, all the fun's in 3rd and 4th.

that's not quite what i meant, i can tell that too. it's more a guarantee, if you were suddenly transported onto a moving bike with which you were unfamiliar with the number of gears, revs at each gear, etc....the only guarantees you can make re: gears are for either 1st, or top.

i guess northy's suggestion makes the most sense to me though - having neutral as a "half gear" between all the real gears means that when going up/down you can basically ignore it and are always in a gear. having it below 1st would mean it would have to be "selectable" during riding, unlike the current setup.

[Sid Squid]

The controls thing came up in conversation in Soho just recently, the way the controls are arranged nowadays is no more than a matter of convention, with few exceptions even most of the switches are in similar locations. In reality there is no 'right' place for any control to be located, early Japanese bikes had right foot changes too. Even the gear arrangement we* all think 'right', being 1st down and the rest up, is a comparatively recently adoption, not that long ago some Kawasaki two strokes had neutral at the top and all gears down. Most Brit bikes were 'down for up', the reason being that when gearboxes weren't as finely engineered and as light and positive as they are now, a more 'purposeful' change was necessary, and as you were likely to want to change up more quickly and positively than you were to change down, and you can press down harder more easily than you can lift the lever, the gears were arranged the other way up in order to make that easier, the 'race' pattern change being reversed is for the same reason, plus as you exit a corner the next gear you're likely to want is up, having your foot ready to change above the lever doesn't limit your lean angle as your foot under the lever might. While we're on the subject the twist grip wasn't the first way to control the throttle, lever throttles were common, and when the twist grip was invented some Indians had two, one for the throttle and one for the ignition advance & retard. The throttle was the twist grip on the left. Theory has it that Indian and Harley attempted to force brand loyalty on their customers by making their bikes controls so different that no-one would want to change :?.

*When I say 'we' I mean most of you, as I learnt to ride on a bike that had the gearchange on the right, and the other way up.

[northwind]

*When I say 'we' I mean most of you, as I learnt to ride on a bike that had the gearchange on the right, and the other way up.

Are you sure you didn't just have the bike the wrong way up? Easy mistake to make, that...

[Quiff Wichard]

interesting sid... thanks.. again.

[Sid Squid]

Are you sure you didn't just have the bike the wrong way up? Easy mistake to make, that...

I can't say it's never happened, and yes, it could be considered a mistake. But, to be fair, I couldn't really be considered to be riding it by the time it was upside down - I was rather more of a interested spectator by that point in the whole sorry business.

[darylB]

[quote=Ed;1154749]Really? I can tell by the revs and the engine noise, and besides I count through the box. I rarely use 5th and 6th anyway, all the fun's in 3rd and 4th.[/quote

Ed, you forgot that in 5th and 6th the bike is going very quickly as well.:D

Daryl.

[Pedrosa]

Mr.Sidney...When you be learning to ride was not still use hand gear shift? Also with advance/retard mechanism on handle bars?:rolleyes: