View Full Version : K1 GSXR 600 Handling issue - Anyone help?
Hi Guys.
Ok - I have just bought a K1 GSXR 600, lovely bike and insanely fast compared to my SV :cool: .
However I am having a problem with the handling and was hoping someone might be able to help, I know a lot of people on here have now 'graduated' to gixers :).
Bit of history - The bike has only done 3000 miles, though it is a 2001 model so is 6 years old. Tyres and chain all look to be ok. Tyre pressures checked - 36 and 42 psi. All suspension settings are stock and I weigh around 11 stone.
When riding in a straight line bike feels good, however as soon as try to turn the front end 'flops' into the corner. So, as an example, going round a roundabout, it feels as if the front wheel is flopping towards the roundabout, so I have to literally turn the handlebars to the left in order to hold the wheel in line with the back wheel!
One thing I thought might be causing it - I suspect as the bike has only done 3000 miles it has never had new tyres so those tyres could potentially be 6 years old!? Could that be the cause? They are Dragon Evos.
Thanks for any advice guys, much appreciated :cool:
Blue_SV650S
19-04-07, 08:16 AM
Look on the side of the tyre, is it a 70 profile? (i.e. 120/70 - 17) or a 60 profile?
Which one should it be? I am at work but I can check it in lunch break, would that cause this kind of handling issue then?
Jelster
19-04-07, 08:19 AM
It's hard to grasp what the symptom actually is, but if it's "falling" into bends it may be because the tyres are "squared off", it's hard to tell unless you're a tyre fitter/mechanic or you compare against a new set.
Get a pair of decent sports tyres on it and see how it runs from there.
Don't forget, the Gixxer will turn in quicker than your old SV, and with the K1-3's that I've ridden, there is a lot of weight sitting over the front and it felt very strange after the SV.
.
fizzwheel
19-04-07, 08:20 AM
IIRC it should be a 70 profile front tyre. What are the tyres like are they "Squared off" My bike does the same with square tyres.
You might be better off asking your question www.gixerjunkies.net (http://www.gixerjunkies.net) theres loads of info on there and its more specific to your bike than the org is.
21QUEST
19-04-07, 08:24 AM
If tyres are not squared off then check the steering head bearings. That's probably where I'll put my money.
I know it's only got 3000 odd miles..... but that is assumming from new it was adjusted correct in the first place ;) .
Ben
I did think steering head bearings too - but I also thought surely not on such a low mileage bike! I take it loose head bearings would allow the front end to flop from side to side too easily?
Jelster u r right - bike feels VERY odd after SV, felt like my **** is in the clouds and my wrists are on the ground! I dont think it is this though as I have got used to the new riding position now and the issue is still there.
Bike needs an MOT anyway so I'll get the garage to take it for a spin this evening and see what the 'official' verdict is, hopefully just needs new tyres, fingers crossed!
Still - dodgy handling hasnt stopped me enjoying the absolute crazy speed and noise of my gixer :cool: . I dont think I could ever go back to an SV now i have experienced what a proper bike can do! I actually used to genuinely believe nothing could be faster than my trusty SV :). Oh well - just have to show the girlfriend what it can do now - so far I have only shown her 8000rpm of speed and that was too much for her!
Fizzwheel - when u say urs does the same thing with squared off tyres - do u mean the bike just turns in too quick or do u mean that the front end actually 'flops' into the corner and feels like it is almost pointing into the corner more than the rear? Hopefully u r right and it just needs new tyres :smt045
Blue_SV650S
19-04-07, 09:24 AM
IIRC it should be a 70 profile front tyre. What are the tyres like are they "Squared off" My bike does the same with square tyres.
You might be better off asking your question www.gixerjunkies.net (http://www.gixerjunkies.net) theres loads of info on there and its more specific to your bike than the org is.
I am prety sure the K1 had a 60 section as stock ...
and yes a 70 rofile tyre on a bike that is supposed ot have a 60 will cause the problems you mention mattyL
Aaaah - I have just checked the tyres. They are Pirelli Drago Evo Corsas, dont look squared off but the rear tyre wont have much more life in it. And - the front tyre is a 70 section, so this could be the problem then?
Captain Nemo
19-04-07, 09:36 AM
sounds to me like a square front, if its the original tyre and 6000 miles then it will prob be square, or head bearings not tight and moving when the tension alters in the headstock, get the front of the floor and check for any flex or movement that shouldnt be there.
timwilky
19-04-07, 09:56 AM
The Pirelli Supercorsas on the front of my K3 is a 70 section, feels very planted. Doesn't flop but then again mine is well rounded
21QUEST
19-04-07, 10:07 AM
Aaaah - I have just checked the tyres. They are Pirelli Drago Evo Corsas, dont look squared off but the rear tyre wont have much more life in it. And - the front tyre is a 70 section, so this could be the problem then?
Before assumming that is the problem , double check with a dealer that really"knows". Some won't have a clue ;) but will possibly say 120/70. :rolleyes: anyways.
I can't say Bluey is wrong but Ipersonally I would have thought/assummed it would be a 120/70.
A notchy steering head bearings can give similar IMO. Usually you'll find it notchy just off centre.
Ben
fizzwheel
19-04-07, 10:16 AM
When my K5 had squared of tyres it felt like it didnt want to steer so you'd give it some more steering input and then all of sudden it would go past the square edge of the tyre and then it would tip over really quickly.
It was like, steer, nothing, nothing, nothing, use some body weight, whooahhh I'm lent right over. It also was really sensitive to the road surfaces and would track / wiggle / squirm over white lines etc etc
Jelster
19-04-07, 10:49 AM
Soo much so that sometimes I had to counter-counter steer :-k to pick it back up again. S*** the life out of me first time it happened.
It was like, steer, nothing, nothing, nothing, use some body weight, whooahhh I'm lent right over.
northwind
19-04-07, 11:46 AM
Never seen a recent GSXR with a 120/60 tbh... 120/70 is more or less standard for sportsbikes these days.
I'm gonna take it to the garage tonight - I will give you all an update on what the outcome is, hopefully it is an easy fix! If it just needs new tyres I am gonna look like an idiot :rolleyes: , oh well!
Thanks for all the advice everyone :thumbsup:
Blue_SV650S
19-04-07, 02:41 PM
Never seen a recent GSXR with a 120/60 tbh... 120/70 is more or less standard for sportsbikes these days.
Indeed, but 01 is not recent ;) ... back then 60s were the norm ...
mattyL - look up in your owners handbook to see what SHOULD be fitted to a K1, if it is a 60, then this is your problem ... if it is indeed a 70, then at 3k, its prolly a squared rear causing it ... ;)
Ok mate - I'll check handbook and let you know, thanks for the help :thumbsup:
Still - dodgy handling hasnt stopped me enjoying the absolute crazy speed and noise of my gixer :cool: . I dont think I could ever go back to an SV now i have experienced what a proper bike can do!
Comments like that might lose you some friends on an SV site;)
Balky001
19-04-07, 05:47 PM
K1 has a 70 section front (Blue - the R6 had 60 section and got mightly slated for it). Squared tyre is likely cause but recommended rear pressure is 36psi although 42 is OK for road use and should not have a loppy effect. You sure the steering isn't just settling after the initial tip in on counter-steer - you're front will track the radius of the curve rather than continue to counter-steer. Then again it may be a floppy end!
Well - I took it to garage and he inspected it. Apparently head races and wheel bearings all in good condition so thats not the problem. He had alook at the tyres and said its still on the OE tyres, so they are 6 years old but he thinks this wouldnt be much of a problem. The rear is starting to square off but the front tyre has barely been used, the edges are like new!
The steering damper is leaking a bit, which he reckoned would probably be the cause of the steering weirdness, but I'm not convinced, would a knackered steering damper really give me the dodgy steering symptoms i'm getting?
I did check owners manual - yep 120/70 is standard.
Bike is getting MOT tomorrow now, so I'm gonna get a second opinion, and ask him to actually give it a test ride cos the other mechanic wouldn ttake it out as he was off home and was just fobbing me off saying 'well it's a gsxr and they are very track focused so they do steer sharply', grrrrrr :mad:.
The age of the tyres should not IMHO make the bike tip into corners, the grip may be a tad less but that should be it. The profile of the tyres is what makes a big difference as has already been mentioned here.
I don't know if you've checked if the rear tyre is the correct size as an oversize boot as it will certainly make a difference to the handling. I tried it on my first CBR a long time ago although it arguabely made the back look better I just could not get on with it. When I went back to the right size all was well.
The steering damper might not be leaking, it may just be trace dirt on the damper shaft, that also should not make the bike tip, its function helps higher speed stability.
I don't want to sound off here but has anyone else ridden the bike who has or had a similar model? It may just be a characteristic of the bike that is different to the SV. It might just be that you need to get used to the diferent characteristics. Just one thougt thought, it mght be worth checking if the forks have been dropped a little through the yoke (lower the front) to accomodate a shorter rider as that will sharpenn the steering a little also.
Good luck and have fun riding the bike. Sorry I can't think of anything else that might help at the moment.
northwind
19-04-07, 11:35 PM
Indeed, but 01 is not recent ;) ... back then 60s were the norm ...
Aye it is... SRADs came with 70s and that's stone age, as old as our SVs in fact ;)
timwilky
20-04-07, 12:14 AM
Interesting point that Beenz raises. The handling issue is your opinion based on your knowledge to date. Certainly when I moved from the SV to GSXR I experienced handling issues. In my case it was down to learning how to set the suspension up for my self and the anticipated road average. But in terms of steering I am still struggling to get the bike as far over/down as I could with the SV.
Get an opinion of an experienced GSXR rider
The age of the tyres should not IMHO make the bike tip into corners, the grip may be a tad less but that should be it. The profile of the tyres is what makes a big difference as has already been mentioned here.
I don't know if you've checked if the rear tyre is the correct size as an oversize boot as it will certainly make a difference to the handling. I tried it on my first CBR a long time ago although it arguabely made the back look better I just could not get on with it. When I went back to the right size all was well.
The steering damper might not be leaking, it may just be trace dirt on the damper shaft, that also should not make the bike tip, its function helps higher speed stability.
I don't want to sound off here but has anyone else ridden the bike who has or had a similar model? It may just be a characteristic of the bike that is different to the SV. It might just be that you need to get used to the diferent characteristics. Just one thougt thought, it mght be worth checking if the forks have been dropped a little through the yoke (lower the front) to accomodate a shorter rider as that will sharpenn the steering a little also.
Good luck and have fun riding the bike. Sorry I can't think of anything else that might help at the moment.
i agree with Beenz here. It is a sports bike and steering is sharp although the SV is pretty responsive, maybe just a case of getting used to it.
Again - consider the back tyre. My FZR600 of many years ago arrived with oversized rear tyre. When I came to replace with standard fitment the handling improved ten fold. Can't recall the specific handling details now but may be worth considering.
It doesn't sound mechanical to me otherwise you would be able to detect it with the usual front end checks.
Ok - I have checked the rear tyre and it is stock size so no oversize rear tyre issue, though it is getting squared off now as its done almost 4000 miles so it will need replacing soon.
I really dont think its me - I used to have a ZX6-R and that turned pretty sharply but never felt 'weird' like this does!
I do agree that if there was a mechanical issue they probably would have found it last night when they inspected the bike - so all that leaves really is to fit new tyres, which I am planning on doing anyway. I really hope that does the trick!
Jelster
20-04-07, 07:58 AM
My mate had a K1 when I had my SV, handling was fantastic compared to my curvy. However, it did feel that all the weight was over the front and after riding the SV it felt "strange". It did tip in and turn faster too.
However, from what has been described it does sound like "square" tyres to me.
Matt, if you can afford it, change both tyres and then you'll be sure that if the problem hasn't gone away it must be something else. I'd suggest Diablo Corsa's again, but I am a little biased, although Bridgestone 014's aren't bad, although Fizz doesn't like 'em in the wet.
Thanks mate - I will get new tyres fitted this weekend, but I really want some tyres that will last well as my daily commute from London out to sunny Essex ia a 60-mile round trip so they need to do some good mileage before wearing out, what tyres would people recommend that will last a good distance, but still cope with some weekend roundabout surfing :cool: ?
Jelster
20-04-07, 08:11 AM
Thanks mate - I will get new tyres fitted this weekend, but I really want some tyres that will last well as my daily commute from London out to sunny Essex ia a 60-mile round trip so they need to do some good mileage before wearing out, what tyres would people recommend that will last a good distance, but still cope with some weekend roundabout surfing :cool: ?
Can't help you on that one, I always run sports tyres on my sports bike. Maybe the Conti "Sport Attack" would be better but have a look for a decent "sport - touring" tyre.
.
fizzwheel
20-04-07, 08:15 AM
Thanks mate - I will get new tyres fitted this weekend, but I really want some tyres that will last well as my daily commute from London out to sunny Essex ia a 60-mile round trip so they need to do some good mileage before wearing out, what tyres would people recommend that will last a good distance, but still cope with some weekend roundabout surfing :cool: ?
Michellin Pilot Power 2CT's are dual compound and I was getting 3000 - 3500 out of a rear last summer. I've just switched to Pirelli Diablo Corsa III which are also dual compound I've done about 700 - 800 miles on them so far and they are not showing any signs of wear. best tyres I've tired yet on my K5 - 750.
Cant speak for anything else as I've not tried them. TBH most modern sports touring tyres are more than enough for most weekend fun rides but will also give you the extra milleage you are after for your week day commute.
I know a few people that have been runing Bridgestone BT-020's on their GSXR with no problem, but personally I think you can do better than these for Sport Touring tyre now.
Like I said above have a look on the gixerjunkies forum, www.gixerjunkies.net (http://www.gixerjunkies.net) theres loads of threads on this subject on there.
Oh and Jelster is right I f*cking hate BT-014's urgh... also the wear rate is terrible not good for commuting on.
HTH
Jelster
20-04-07, 09:13 AM
Oh and Jelster is right I f*cking hate BT-014's urgh... also the wear rate is terrible not good for commuting on.
Now I had a K4 600 and they were great for me, even in the wet. However I am now on my 2nd set of Corsa's and can't fault them (other than cost).
.
I would not go near BT014s again after I got them OEM with the bike, not a lot of confidence in them wet or dry, they took an age to warm up and where toast after only 1500 miles and I do mean nigh on treadless.
I have Diablos (not the corser version) and love them, the rear is past its best after 2.5K but should last till a tad over 3K. They warm up quick and stick like ..err.. U rated .. really well and they work well in the wet.
Just my two penny worth.
kwak zzr
20-04-07, 06:08 PM
friend of mine has got the k1 gixer 6 and he was complaining of a weird front end feeling, after a close inspection his front tyre was shot, it had plenty of tread left but the profile wasnt the same across the tyre, no flat spot but it was like a deformed egg?
Balky001
20-04-07, 06:37 PM
Go Diablo!:) They were the best tyres I had on my gixer600K2 but everytime I buy a new set I try a different tyre. I'm on Contisports and they are really good but not tried them on track. Get warm and stocky pretty quickly and good in wet. But you can't go wrong with Diablos IMO:thumbsup:
Ah thanks Kwak ZZR, good to know I'm not the only one :) - I am increasingly thinking it must be the tyres, taking it for MOT tomorrow, will get them to take it for a ride and see what the 'experts' make of it - if its just a tyre issue I will be very happy :D.
Those tyres have been on the bike for 6 years and 3500 miles, they have gotta be slightly knackered by now havent they!?
fizzwheel
20-04-07, 08:12 PM
Those tyres have been on the bike for 6 years and 3500 miles, they have gotta be slightly knackered by now havent they!?
IMHO yes they probably are. If it were me I'd be changing them. I wouldnt wanna be trusting 6 year old tyres that I didnt know the history of.
I have Diablos (not the corser version) and love them, the rear is past its best after 2.5K but should last till a tad over 3K. They warm up quick and stick like ..err.. U rated .. really well and they work well in the wet.
Another vote for the Diablos, I have them on my Daytona - they're ace tyres, very very good in the wet. Shocked though to read the estimated life span Beenz - mine are from new with the bike, now done 4700 miles. They're looking a bit sorry now so I asked John and Daryl last week if they thought I needed new uns, they thought another little bit of wear still. But then, I don't cane it - well not that often anyway.
jonboy99
21-04-07, 12:58 PM
I had a k1 gsxr 6 from new- quick handling but incredibly stable. If your rear tyre doesn't appear to have much life in it, it will almost certainly be squared off, and the symptoms fit exactly. Fit a new rear before doing anything else apart from the simple checks you've already done.
Quick steering but far more stable than the SV, especially on bumpy ground - you'll love it on the new tyre.
Ok thanks so much for all the advice guys.
So - I took it to the garage for some new tyres, I ended up going with Avon Storm STs, mainly cos I had them on my SV and they were really good, and I commute a long way on my bike so need to have tyres that are good in bends but will also last a while. And it would appear problem solved as far as handling goes! Bike feels a hundred times better - I cant believe that knackered tyres can make a bike feel as dangerous as they did, it felt as if the front tyre was gonna slide out from under me even on really slow corners! Anyway - it seems new tyres have solved the problem, so I'm a happy man now :smt003 .
I thrashed some dude on a new bandit down some nice country roads near Harlow on the way to work today, he had no chance now my bike actually goes round corners :smt067 . Hopefully now I can thrash someone in a slightly fairer fight :cool: .
One thing I still cant get over though - the GSXR feels a lot physically bigger than my old SV, but is massively lighter, quite a few times I have given it a big heave when trying to move the bike out of my yard as I used to have to with teh SV, only to then realise I dont need to and the bike comes flying towards me! Oh well, cant complain :).
Time to start enjoying the bike now - I'm finding most car drivers want to race me now, guy in a porsche asked me to do a wheelie off the lights in Woodford Green last week, I have never ben able to do wheelies, but I gave it a load of revs , pulled away with a load of noise and somehow did a feeble wheelie that scared the crap out of me, Mr Porsche driver loved it though :cool:
northwind
23-04-07, 06:52 PM
One thing I still cant get over though - the GSXR feels a lot physically bigger than my old SV, but is massively lighter, quite a few times I have given it a big heave when trying to move the bike out of my yard as I used to have to with teh SV, only to then realise I dont need to and the bike comes flying towards me! Oh well, cant complain :).
They're actually pretty similiar, it's the weight distribution as much as anything else... It's also quite psychological, it takes way less effort to take a GSXR off its sidestand than an SV, especially once the stand gets a bit slack and the SV takes on its cruiser lean. I was convinced the Daytona 650 I rode weighed practically nothing, largely because of that :rolleyes:
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