Brunstrum strikes again!

[Baph]

SoulKiss forwarded this link (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/27/cats_eyes_cameras/) to me.

Seems the North Wales policy are looking into putting speed cameras in cats eyes! Brunstrum has said that they'll probably (if they even do any of this) put up a warning sign "There are hidden safety cameras ahead."

Hang on a minute, isn't there legislation governing the deployment of safety cameras? Doesn't this legislation state that they have to be visible?

Also, I agree with Paul Smith. The man needs to resign. I don't care what form of transport someone is injured in, but the use of photo's of dead people without the families permission is completely out of order.

Apparently 70% of the public support him. I'd love to know where he plucked that number from. Answers on a postcard...

[keithd]

same brunstrum that used a headless biker to promote his anti-speed campaign? didnt ask the relatives permission...?

is there a thread about that btw? cos its outrageous!! i've done a search but had no luck

[Baph]

same brunstrum that used a headless biker to promote his anti-speed campaign? didnt ask the relatives permission...?

is there a thread about that btw? cos its outrageous!! i've done a search but had no luck
That's mentionned in the Register link ;)

[Baph]

Now THAT I'd slow down for.

I'd also hurry up & fit a video camera to my bike...

[SoulKiss]

I believe that it was also me tho discovered the Bikini Bandits :)

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=86351&highlight=bikini+bandits

BTW folks, you do all know its the money you pay to the European Union that pays my wages, so I see bringing these stories to you as a way of giving you value back from your taxes :)

David

[Baph]

BTW folks, you do all know its the money you pay to the European Union that pays my wages :P

Yet another reason to vote UKIP & leave the EU then ;)

[Luckypants]

Why am I not suprised? The man is an arrogant, rude and insensitive oaf - as anyone who has met him will attest. Try to argue (constructively) and you are dismissed out of hand - because he knows best.

No doubt the use of graphic images was done to get his name in the papers again, he loves being controversial. He will not care a bit for the families of those in the photos.

[mac608]

Article in todays Times - pretty much what was in The Register

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1711901.ece

And he does admit to using the photographs without the dead mans family being informed.

[SoulKiss]

Should be enough to get him sacked?

No?

David

[Jelster]

He cannot use any camera that doesn't have type approval. He'll need to wait some time before that happens, and even if that did happen, how will he pay to have it installed.

He will need to get permission from Government, with an election in the next 12 months, I don't think so.....

.

[Filipe M.]

He cannot use any camera that doesn't have type approval. He'll need to wait some time before that happens, and even if that did happen, how will he pay to have it installed.

He will need to get permission from Government, with an election in the next 12 months, I don't think so.....

.

For someone who didn't mind using the aforementioned pictures, I don't see how he'll let those minor technicalities stop him from doing whatever he wants to... :roll:

[gettin2dizzy]

i just logged on to post that link - but beaten to it! i think its disgusting behaviour, this guy is obviously on some crazy power trip and can't seem to see any sense in road safety. I really think he should step down immediately after that performance - where i'm from with that kind of behaviour you'd wake up at the bottom of a river with your feet in concrete! 53 lives my ****.

oh - and the 'visible' cameras only applies to road safety camera partnerships, not the police - big loophole!

[Flamin_Squirrel]

He should have been sacked along time ago. He's a senior police officer, he should be focusing on ways to tackle all crime. Instead he's a single minded idiot, concerntraiting on a matter than isnt even a criminal offence :evil:

He shouldn't be permitted to use his position to peddle his own stupid personal agenda.

[Luckypants]

He should have been sacked along time ago. He's a senior police officer, he should be focusing on ways to tackle all crime. Instead he's a single minded idiot, concerntraiting on a matter than isnt even a criminal offence :evil:

He shouldn't be permitted to use his position to peddle his own stupid personal agenda.

If you think he's bad, you want to hear his deputy, Clive Wolfendale on the subject of bikers.

[Alpinestarhero]

I say we egg their houses

:cool:

Matt

[Filipe M.]

I say we egg their houses

:cool:

Matt

Hey everyone, Matt is offering to carry the ammo in his pizza box!

[Red ones]

oh - and the 'visible' cameras only applies to road safety camera partnerships, not the police - big loophole!


Quite right. It's a good job hardly anyone has spotted the covert safety cameras in the Blackwall Tunnel yet, otherwise the London based bikers would be up in arms

[Alpinestarhero]

Hey everyone, Matt is offering to carry the ammo in his pizza box!

No, now an egg-box. Yes, all queue up, take an egg and throw. Then I can swiftly lock the box and we can be gone before they know its another bunch of those hell-raising, child-killing, old-lady-stabbing, ozone-depleting, satan-worshiping, environmentally-damaging bikers.

But they do deserve it.

Matt

[Moffatt666]

So who wants to take a ride to north wales and ride in convoy down the motorway at 40 mph?

[Baph]

So who wants to take a ride to north wales and ride in convoy down the motorway at 40 mph?
I'm game, but only if I'm allowed to do 110 to meet you. I mean, I live here, I'll have to ride to ride back!

EDIT: Wait a minute. North Wales doesn't have any motorways! The M56 stops at Chester. We'll have to do it on the A55 instead.

[the_lone_wolf]

if you really want to make an impact, you should do a go slow through the town/city centre where NW police hq are based. 10mph for a couple of hours designed to cause maximum disruption should do it

make sure you call all the local/national media before you do it though, if they turned up to get coverage you'd have an excellent oppertunity to put accross why you're not happy with the way brunstrom is acting and why you think he should resign

i'm considering whether to lodge a complaint with the IPCC about this incident, after all his daughter was caught speeding, if she'd had a fatal crash i don't think he would be quite so eager to show her headless body to "make a point"

:toss:

[Alpinestarhero]

I'm up for a demonstration ride. No, seriously, I am.

Lets be french about this - lets make a stand, and not be all polite and british.

Matt

[the_lone_wolf]

for a fairly comprehensive review of his general stupidity see this page:

http://www.abd.org.uk/brunstrom.htm

[gettin2dizzy]

i'm up for that too, there's not much that gets me riled up, but that article was shocking! i'm sure most of north wales would be up for a ride out/protest of sorts

[Alpinestarhero]

Good! Then is sorted! I'll bring the eggs. Yea, eggs, innit Dave? We never discussed the use of some sort of combustable objects. No, thats stupid. Eggs far better.

Um...

Matt

[Baph]

I'm sure a little get together can be arranged :)

Oh, and I wouldn't just expect bikers to turn up too, cars can exceed the limit too.

If only there was more time, I know the perfect weekend. May 5-7th. Llandudno's Extravoganza weekend. The police are already over stretched that weekend :)

[Filipe M.]

I wonder what he'd have to say about this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6600897.stm).

[Alpinestarhero]

He'd genralise it to all bikes, and have them banned, obviously backed up by his 70% population that support him.

This is quite an old story I think, but its one where honda refuses to accept there is a problem with the bikes I think.

Matt

[Baph]

I see a livered ST1300 pretty much every day at the moment. The rider never nods, obviously too scared that he'll cause the shakes.

Btw guys & girls, I've sent an email off to the local paper, asking what they think of the idea of a protest ride. Naturally such a ride would have to go through most towns (I'm thinking Colwyn Bay, Llandudno, Bangor & Caernarfon), and possibly involve a 30mph crawl along the A55 (traffic has to maintain a minimum speed on motorways, and no-one wants to fall foul of the law).

[cuffy]

I was going to suggest logging a complaint to the police ombudsman or even scotland yard but when i went to do it all the complaint sites are "unavailable" could they have pulled the plug waiting for the onslaught this ass clown is going to get...lol :toss:

[Luckypants]

i'm considering whether to lodge a complaint with the IPCC about this incident, after all his daughter was caught speeding, if she'd had a fatal crash i don't think he would be quite so eager to show her headless body to "make a point":toss:

Before you go chucking allegations around, you should be aware it was a Sun journo that 'caught' his daughter 'speeding'. So his daughter was not officially caught speeding. The police checked the Sun's evidence but nothing was done.

You need to be very careful dealing with this man, he will have you under some technicality if you aren't careful of your language - such as 'using language and actions likely to cause alarm' if you speak out of turn. Make sure of the facts and stay calm when speaking with him and his alleged cronies.

[the_lone_wolf]

Before you go chucking allegations around, you should be aware it was a Sun journo that 'caught' his daughter 'speeding'. So his daughter was not officially caught speeding. The police checked the Sun's evidence but nothing was done.
i wasn't chucking allegations around, and certainly wouldn't bring that situation up in any complaint - that was more to show the hypocrisy of his actions. at the end of the day you have to ask yourself if he's behaving in an appropriate way for a high ranking police officer, if you don't think he is then you have grounds to make a complaint...

as with most things it may be prudent to allow a nights sleep before taking action, i'll see how i feel tomorrow;)

[the_lone_wolf]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6602149.stm

now he's saying the media are distorting the whole event...

does it make it ok if the pictures were only meant to be shown to journalists?

:toss:

[Luckypants]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6602149.stm

now he's saying the media are distorting the whole event...

does it make it ok if the pictures were only meant to be shown to journalists?

:toss:

No of course not. The guy is a bit paranoid about the press being out to get him, so why does he keep pulling stunts like this? Show us photos of rapists and burglars that run over by trains while trying to escape, perhaps you would get a bit more sympathy Richard!

[MiniMatt]

When is an apology not an apology?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6606005.stm

Absolutely amazing, "North Wales Police have written to the family of Mark Gibney to apologise for the distress caused by the publicity that followed the Arrive Alive closed seminar on Thursday 26th April 2007.". Ie. "we're sorry for what those nasty journalists did, not us."

Followed by, "North Wales Police accepts and regrets that it made a mistake in believing that description of pictures shown to this invited audience would remain confidential." Ie. "we thought we'd get away with it and this would never be leaked".

A proper apology would have been "we're sorry for what we did, it was a mistake, we won't do it again and we'll be reprimanding those that made the decision.". Their 'apology' is nothing of the sort. I'm amazed that he's still in office, MPs would have resigned or been sacked long ago.

[the_lone_wolf]

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/en/blogs/viewblog.asp?UID=1&CID=204

and i thought denial was just a river in egypt:rolleyes:

[Luckypants]

This has been referred to the IPCC See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6608917.stm Hope he gets a severe reprimand at least, but IMO he should be dismissed for misconduct.

Note that the letter of apology from the N. Wales polise was from an underling and not Brunstrum himself. See my earlier post about his arrogance.................

[Baph]

I've just seen his out on this.

"I didn't choose the pictures, yes, I asked for pictures that would be used in the presentation, but Mr X chose the pictures to use, so they will be reprimanded for it."

Classic case of the fall guy, unfortunately. But I hope he is told to "take early retirement."

[Jelster]

my response to that section of Brunstrum's "Blog"

I am appalled that somebody in such a position even considered using images of accident victims without the permission of the family.

In any other walk of life the person at the top of the management structure would have been brought to task and made an empathic appology.

But once again we see that Mt Brunstrum feels that it's his place to pass the buck down the line and offer what is no more than a "it’s not our fault“ statement.

When will Mr Brunstrum start taking responsibility for the actions of his force ? The force he manages and in which he sets the strategy. It is evident that this is another case of Mr Brunstrum using his position to leverage his own opinions to bolster an ever growing ego.

Mr Brunstrum, concentrate on your real job and let your force take the credit for the strategies you put in place. Good Managers are like good schoolboys, they are seen and not heard.

[Luckypants]

Nice one. Did you read the 'Statement by Clive wolfendale' that states Brunstrum is 'out of the country'? How convenient.

[Alpinestarhero]

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/en/blogs/viewblog.asp?UID=1&CID=204

and i thought denial was just a river in egypt:rolleyes:

The only river connected to brunstrum is the river Styx

Matt

[Ceri JC]

If anyone is in any doubt as to quite how bad Brumstrom's actions on the matter are, this should clear things up.


From one of the articles...

Mr Gibney's father William, 64, said he had managed to conceal from other members of the family the horrific nature of his son's death. "I've kept it quiet for four years. I've kept it inside me. The whole family did not know about it. All of a sudden they get to know about it this way.

[Baph]

Ceri, the flip side of that argument is the question why it was hidden from the family & to what extent.

Personally, if I was to have an accident resulting in the same injuries sustained as Mr Gibney, I wouldn't want my kids to know specifics, granted. However, anyone over the age of 18 who asked about it, I'd expect them to be told as much detail as they wanted to know.

Of course, non of that justifies the actions of North Wales Police in using those images (regardless of the injuries sustained or the persons in question) without consent.

[gettin2dizzy]

Ceri, the flip side of that argument is the question why it was hidden from the family & to what extent.

Personally, if I was to have an accident resulting in the same injuries sustained as Mr Gibney, I wouldn't want my kids to know specifics, granted. However, anyone over the age of 18 who asked about it, I'd expect them to be told as much detail as they wanted to know.

Of course, non of that justifies the actions of North Wales Police in using those images (regardless of the injuries sustained or the persons in question) without consent.

well its a decision that circumstances obviously created. I don't blame them. Did you hear from the press?

Gibney explained how he formed a pact of silence with his father never to reveal the extent of his brother’s injuries after they identified the body. He said: “We promised never to let my mother or Eileen (Mark’s wife) know what had happened because it would upset them so much. My mother is very old and frail and since the news of Mark has been in the press I’ve never seen her like this before, I hope she’ll be ok.”
Since the news broke on Friday Gibney said his: “head has been everywhere”. He has been forced to come to terms with his brother’s accident afresh. To help him deal with the latest trauma he spent all day on Saturday riding the roads in North Wales on his Kawasaki ZX-6R that his brother used to love.

[Luckypants]

Getting2dizzy - don't understand your last post?? :confused:

[Baph]

Getting2dizzy - don't understand your last post?? :confused:
It's OK, I did :)

Didn't see the reasoning in what I've read of it, but as I said, that's really besides the point. Regardless of the reason for not informing people about how the man died, the fact remains that images were used without consent.

Getting2dizzy, nope, haven't heard a sausage. I'm also going to send a couple more mails to gauge interest though. Anything significant & I'll post on the org about it.

[gettin2dizzy]

Getting2dizzy - don't understand your last post?? :confused:

hehe. i meant that the reason they didn't tell the family how their son/husband had died was obviously a result of how the family thought they would react to the news. That it isn't always correct to shield the details from them, but in this situation they deemed it the right thing to do. - It was a bit of a ramble.
Good to see brunstrom has blamed the press *and* the guy working for him who gave him the pictures. Now i understand - he had nothing to do with it... doh! ;)

[Jelster]

Good to see brunstrom has blamed the press *and* the guy working for him who gave him the pictures. Now i understand - he had nothing to do with it... doh! ;)

Ultimately the buck stops at the top, and Brunstrum should take the responsibility of what happened. He could quite easily of said:

"I am very sorry for this incident, if I had been aware of the situation I would not of proceeded in this way. However, it is my responsibility and I would like to make a personal apology to Mr Gibney's family".

Now that would have set the record straight. It wasn't his fault directly but he's taken it on the chin. Good leaders stand out like this. He could discipline his junior in private (again the right way to do it).

But no, he has to be seen leading a charge on his white horse. The guy's an irrisponsible ******** who needs relieving of his duties, in my opinion.

[Bluewolf]

.

[Paws]

hmm now see my sympathy has cooled slightly after reading today that the biker had NO licence, NO insurance and was doing 95mph in a 60mph zone on a busa...
Yes its still awful that his pics were shown WITHOUT permission BUT he shouldnt have been on that bike!
Thats just my 2p input.

[Luckypants]

hmm now see my sympathy has cooled slightly after reading today that the biker had NO licence, NO insurance and was doing 95mph in a 60mph zone on a busa...
Yes its still awful that his pics were shown WITHOUT permission BUT he shouldnt have been on that bike!
Thats just my 2p input.
Well agree with you that he should not have been on the bike, BUT all this furore won't be bothering him now will it?

It is the family he has left behind that have to deal with the trauma. His mum did not know his head was torn from his body (from what I have read) until Brunstrum held up the photos to the media. Now she has to deal with the full horror of the way he died.

Just because the biker was riding illegally does not give the Police carte blanche to trample on his families sensitivities.

[Paws]

All im gonna say is bring back traffic police!,accident prob wouldnt have happened then! hardly see one round here(traffic police that is)! (then again Northants is home to the speed camera!)

[the_runt69]

To the point that Paws put, even if it was speed that killed him perhaps someone should point out to Brunstrum that unliecenced and uninsured riders and drivers dont get caught by camera's, you need traffic police for that not more camera's.
If he targeted these instead of speeding motorists/riders perhaps the death toll's would go down.

H

[Paws]

To the point that Paws put, even if it was speed that killed him perhaps someone should point out to Brunstrum that unliecenced and uninsured riders and drivers dont get caught by camera's, you need traffic police for that not more camera's.
If he targeted these instead of speeding motorists/riders perhaps the death toll's would go down.

H


cheers H, tahst what i was trying to say, just couldnt think of how to write it! (i was having a dizzy mo lol)

[Luckypants]

All im gonna say is bring back traffic police!,accident prob wouldnt have happened then! hardly see one round here(traffic police that is)! (then again Northants is home to the speed camera!)

To the point that Paws put, even if it was speed that killed him perhaps someone should point out to Brunstrum that unliecenced and uninsured riders and drivers dont get caught by camera's, you need traffic police for that not more camera's.
If he targeted these instead of speeding motorists/riders perhaps the death toll's would go down.

H
Totally agree. I like traffic cops as a rule. I don't think we have any left (proper traffic) here in N. Wales.

I was pointing out that Brunstrums actions have no relation to the faults of the killed rider.

[yorkie_chris]

Its fairly obvious what Brunstroms ideas are, in a few years we'll be able to ride our bikes all over Wales pumped full of heroin with no problems, but 31mph.... ooooh the cats eyes will get 'ya!

Never mind eggs I think we're quite entitled to interfere with his daughter, kick his cat and sh#t on his lawn!

[Baph]

I think we're quite entitled to interfere with his daughter, kick his cat and sh#t on his lawn!

Now now. The cat & the lawn, yes, fine.

Let's not drag his family into this. I mean, it's not like his daughter was allowed to choose her father.

I was actually thinking this morning on my way to the office (sparked by a clown on his mobile - he didn't seem to appreciate my reaction). Once I do get the video system fitted to the bike, any one I see on their phone will have their image printed, and hand delivered to Colwyn Bay Police HQ. They'll be accompanied by a letter basically stating that "speed cameras cannot catch people commiting this offence, we need more traffic police on the roads, not more cameras. I will continue to provide these images until such time as the police's fixation with speed cameras disappears & real policing begins."

Should those images happen to capture number plates too, all the better. Though I doubt that the police will do anything about it, because I don't have a radar gun :(

[Alpinestarhero]

Now now. The cat & the lawn, yes, fine.

Let's not drag his family into this. I mean, it's not like his daughter was allowed to choose her father.

No, but now his genes may make it into the next generation through his daughter...

Matt

[Bluewolf]

Nah, they'd never fit her...

[Alpinestarhero]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2007/May/may-1-to-may-6/may0207mpcallsforbrunstromsresignationinquestionti me/

From MCN.

Matt

[Baph]

I would get excited, but it's MCN.

[the_lone_wolf]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6615501.stm

a better class of news for you?;)

[Alpinestarhero]

I would get excited, but it's MCN.

Yes, I admit - its a poor referance, even wikipedia is more trustworthy.

Matt

[Luckypants]

Hmmm... Well if the Welsh Secretary is sying unacceptable but falling short of calling for his resignation, then his job is safe. All this furore and conveniently he is 'out of the country' - probably sent by the powers that be to stop him putting his foot further in his mouth!

I hope the IPCC recommends disciplinary action, if only a formal reprimand, to show this arrogant git he is not above the rest of us.

[wheelnut]

Im not sure whether this link has already been posted.

But another link to the petition will not hurt.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/RichardBrunstrom/?showall=1

The day after this story was all over the press I happened to be in the valley of men and scared sheep and spoke to a local copper about it.

The Conversation.
"Your boss has made a bit of a bugger of things hasnt he?"

Well he is outspoken, but if you have to scrape a biker off the road every weekend it might help. Bikers ride through North Wales like they are on a racetrack.

"The mans nuts"

Actually he is a very clever man and we all support him.

"But he is a policeman and not a politician. He should at least have got permission from the family

At the moment, Yes, but he will make a good politician.

[Baph]

Well he is outspoken, but if you have to scrape a biker off the road every weekend it might help. Bikers ride through North Wales like they are on a racetrack.

That very comment is targetted only at weekend warriors (no offence to anyone intended) and tourists.

The vast majority of locals (and even weekend warriors) definately don't treat the roads as a race track. Why? Because we know the Taliban are about!

[the_runt69]

Signed the petion anyway, just hope if he gets th boot his deputy doesnt take over. He's more extreme than his boss

[peterco]

This man is at it again ,to make North Wales a nicer place.

Brunstrom considering blanket 40mph limit throughout Snowdonia

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2007/July/jul2-jul9/jul0507brunstromconsideringblanket40mphlimitthroug houtsnowdonia/?&R=EPI-92505

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/en/blogs/viewblog.asp?UID=1&CID=227
</H3>pete

[Luckypants]

Well in this case, it's a good job speed limits are no longer set by Police forces, but in the majority of cases I would prefer traffic officers to set speed limits, since they have a better idea of what is appropriate than local councils who set them for political reasons as well as safety.

I see he tried to apologise to the biker's family again, who told him to get stuffed again. Perhaps the IPCC is sending signals that he may get a telling off this time....?

[Baph]

Ha! The man wants a 40mph limit through SNP because of noise does he?

Fine.

My bike will happily do 50mph in first gear. I wonder how many bikers adhereing to the speedlimit but making a hell of a lot of noise will make him realise that speed isn't the issue. A clamp down on cans would give him a peaceful walk.

A blanket 40mph speedlimit will all but kill off the tourist industry, purely because of the caravans that you'd no longer be able to overtake!!

[Ping]

I would get excited, but it's MCN.
That comment tickled me. :lol:

Yeah, I read about the 40mph limit... Totally daft imo.

What about this Rosie person that's replaced Ladyman as transport yadda yadda yadda? Anyone know anything about her?

[peterco]

What about this Rosie person that's replaced Ladyman as transport yadda yadda yadda? Anyone know anything about her?

Rt Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Minister of State

Print (javascript:window.print())

http://www.dft.gov.uk/144130/181640/Rosie-Winterton.jpg
Biography


From 1980-86 she was Constituency Personal Assistant to John Prescott MP; she was Parliamentary Officer for Southwark Council from 1986-88 and for the Royal College of Nursing from 1988-90; Managing Director of Connect Public Affairs from 1990-94 and was Head of Office for John Prescott MP, Deputy Leader of the Labour Party from 1994-97.
Between 2001 and June 2003 Rosie Winterton was Parliamentary Secretary at the Lord Chancellor’s Department. From June 2003 to June 2007 she was Minister of State at the Department of Health.
Rosie Winterton MP has been Minister of State for Transport since June 2007.
She has been Member of Parliament for Doncaster Central since 1997. Rosie was educated at Doncaster Grammar School and Hull University receiving a BA Hons in History.



Responsibilities



Regional Transport Strategy
Local Public Transport
Walking, cycling and sustainable transport
Local roads and traffic
Access and equality
Europe

E-mail: rosie.winterton@dft.gsi.gov.uk (rosie.winterton@dft.gsi.gov.uk)
Speeches and statements (http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/ministers/rosiewintertonminofstate?view=Alt_1)


pete

[Ping]

Yeah, I found out that much myself when I googled her, but it tells us bugger all about what sort of views/plans she has. :p