SV 650 Big Bore kits?

[liam_j_harris]

Anyone know who makes the 800cc big bore kits for the SV650 and where you can get them?
What sort of Power/Torque they give it?
Cheers
Liam

[gettin2dizzy]

try jhs racing. They seem to be the experts. 80-85hp seems possible, but at the prices SV1000 go for- i'd do that instead.

[Stig]

try jhs racing. They seem to be the experts. 80-85hp seems possible, but at the prices SV1000 go for- i'd do that instead.

Me too.

[sinbad]

Me three. Just seems a bit pointless to invest not inconsiderable amounts of money in making the SV650 a little quicker when there's a version of the bike with "the perfect mod" straight out of the factory.

[petevtwin650]

But the SV 1000 is not perfect, especially if you like the curvy look. Plus Liam may have spent a fortune getting his 650 "just so". However having said that I guess someone will be along in a mo saying the bottom end will not take the mod and therefore it's only suitable for racing

[sinbad]

But the SV 1000 is not perfect, especially if you like the curvy look. Plus Liam may have spent a fortune getting his 650 "just so". However having said that I guess someone will be along in a mo saying the bottom end will not take the mod and therefore it's only suitable for racing
I agree, and I didn't mean to suggest that the SVthou is perfect, but if you could do a perfect engine mod to an SV650, it would be to give it the performance and power of the SV1000.

I fully understand why people invest in their SV650s, but serious engine modifications can not be a good place to put the money, the gains are so small for the cost, and risk. Plus if the curvy looks are important, surely a TL would be worth considering (if you are serious enough to be considering a big-bore 650 mod).

[northwind]

However having said that I guess someone will be along in a mo saying the bottom end will not take the mod and therefore it's only suitable for racing

800cc is too big, really... 700cc is quite doable, slight risk of terminal failure but it's not bad at all.

The only reason to do any of it on a road bike is that you like modded bikes or modding bikes IMO ;)

[kcowgergmm]

i would like to bore mine out but i realize it just isn't practical

[fat_brstd]

if its just so you can go faster get a tl, looks just as nice as curvy and has cracking power to boot.

[petevtwin650]

Yeah but a TL has about 130 bhp. Too much for some people. Me for one.

A BB 650 with around 80-85 bhp would be excellent and give the supersports riders even more of a whipping whilst looking standardish. Plus insurance would still be cheap, if you "forgot" to mention this mod. How would they know?

[ejohnh]

Did they ever make a curvey in 1000cc?

[liam_j_harris]

if i wanted the thou i'd of bought one. i like the way the 650 handles, the thou's heavier so it wont be the same, im looking for a bit more top end but keeping the caristeristics of the 650, and its always nice to see the guy on the GIXER thou's face when he realizes what he couldnt shake off, just imagine his face when you hammeder past him!!!!!

[John 675]

you wouldnt beat a Gixer Thou matey not on a SV1000 and certainly not on a 650 even with Mods unfortunatly our bikes are not good enough or remotely close enough spec wise to take on the gixer thou, its been voted best super bike again. .. . . . i want one
i was looking in to this too tho,
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=85074 and to be honest everyone on here was right, you way as well get the thou or a completely different bike.
i dont plan on ever selling the SV as ive smashed it up 3 times now so i dont think i actually could.
But saying that, i called JHS Racaing and i got a quote to make my SV a 750cc with all parts and labour and new tyres and pretty much souping it up to the eyeballs with complete race parts and suspension would cost £4898.97
so that might be usefull to you.
my mind changed when i saw last years Daytona 675 in my dealer for £5799.00 :love:

[fizzwheel]

if i wanted the thou i'd of bought one. i like the way the 650 handles, the thou's heavier so it wont be the same, im looking for a bit more top end but keeping the caristeristics of the 650, and its always nice to see the guy on the GIXER thou's face when he realizes what he couldnt shake off, just imagine his face when you hammeder past him!!!!!

I'm assuming your bikes standard still ? If so IMHO it'd be better to sort out the SV's suspension so that you make the most of what you've got rather than going nuts on an overbore.

Set of Springs and new front oil will sort the front end out. You can sort the rear shock out for reasonable money as well. If you really wanna go for it, look at doing the GSXR front end swap as then you'll get better suspension and better brakes to go with it.

Then if you want a bit more go, race system, K & N or the such like, if you've got a curvey do the cam swap from a pointy that should liberate some extra BHP and again for reasonable money.

Theres more knowledgable people on here than me, have a chat with Northwind, billy, 21quest et all.

Or just do what I did, save your money and buy a bigger bike :D

Seriously even with an 800CC overbore and a lot of work and cash, you're never going to waste a GSXR1000 or the such like in a staightline, but with the suspension and braking mods, and if you're a competant rider and he / she is not you'll have a lot of fun on twisty B roads.

I dont know your riding or bike history so apologies if this is teaching to suck eggs, or you've been down the bigger bike route already.

[northwind]

Incidentally, an 80bhp SV doesn't actually feel much different to a 67bhp SV (DJ numbers here), you just acclimatise to it. If I ride a standard one back to back with mine it's very obvious, but the rest of the time it just takes days before you get used to it. With mine, where it really feels different is the length of the power peak, the lack of high-rev falloff, and the low-end drivability, rather than the numbers. I stall standard SVs at every set of lights, because I forget you can't drive away at 2500rpm without a load of clutch :) But day to day I never think "Oh, you can really feel the extra power there" unless I'm chasing another SV.

So, don't tune one in an attempt to get it to rip your arms off, or to make it a different bike, you can't without huge work. But, if you want it to be a better SV, that's when it makes more sense. For me the SV motor's a great piece of work, if I wanted 100bhp I'd get another bike but I don't. If I wanted 90 I'd maybe do a big rebuild on the SV, but I don't see much point. If I could buy a high-spec SV with good suspension and just a little more overall usable power, I'd have just done that, but instead I built one. If you scratch me, underneath you'll find a sneaking suspicion that I should've got an RVF400 ;)

If you're racing it all bets are off, but most of us aren't, and don't confuse trackdays with racing... Oneof the biggest mistakes people tuning road bikes do is to look to the track and do what they do, it's not all transferrable or beneficial.

But, like Fizzwheel says, suspension first. I sort of assumed that anyone looking at a bigbore will already have done this, but I think when I was asking JHS for bigbore prices I probably hadn't ;)

[kcowgergmm]

i want to get a gixxer 1000 but still keep my sv

[$tevo]

Save your money and get one of these;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/graphics/2007/04/21/mfbike2.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/04/21/nosplit/mfbike21.xml

[northwind]

Yup, if there'd been one of those in 2005 I'd have one :) I suppose there's a fair chance that I still will. That pic of the white one's really unflattering, mind, looks kind of bitty and unfocussed. I'd have the headlight off it, raise the tail (or drop the front, in looks if not in geometry) R1 tail section maybe. CRG Lanesplitter bar-end mirrors to get rid of the ears. I reckon that's going to be huge in europe, that bike. And half of the ones in the UK will get flat Renthals, even if that makes it handle like ****.

Oh yes. Want one.

[kcowgergmm]

that would be a lot of fun ill get one of them as my fourth bike

[Stig]

Oh yes. Want one.

Me too. I think they look very very cool.

[Spider]

If you want top end and straight line speed just get more cc`s. For me it`s all about the handling and feel, i`m not saying i`m a fantastic rider however i can keep up with Kwakadan on his Z1000 and he`s not slow, my K6 650 is standard (aftermarket can, no power gain, excluded) so like many have said spend your money wisely in other places rather than a big bore job. Improve riding/handling, enjoy yourself more and you`ll realise any chimp can go fast in a straight line, it`s the bendy bits that people show their real skills :riding:

[liam_j_harris]

im just after the extra grunt, they must be loadsa potential in there. im just trying to find it, i like the 650, got no reason to buy another bike, the only problem with the handling is the forks being way to soft(internals kit on its way soon) im not about straight line speed, im a lot happier scraping things of the floor on little backroads, everyone i ride with rides fireblades and millie's and the like, your struggling to keep distance from them round the twisties but when the road gets straight your flat out and there still pulling away. i dont want stupid power coz the bike gets riden in all weathers(including snow/ice).
as for the "u'll never beat a Gixer thou'" try riding one of them things fast on little tight roads, you cant get the power down, just lights the back end up, perfect on the track, not good on the road!!!

[John 675]

"u'll never beat a Gixer thou'" try riding one of them things fast on little tight roads, you cant get the power down, just lights the back end up, perfect on the track, not good on the road!!!

im sorry mate but you are wrong, an inexperienced rider would not be able to handle a gixer thou but get some one who knows what they are doing they will eat you alive, im sorry but it always comes down to the rider. they dominate both track and the road, strongly followed by the fireblade.
how long have you been riding for if you dont mind me asking?
i was the same as you though, more speed more agility etc etc. . . .
but your on a budget machine with a cracking engine, but bore it out and you reduce the life of the engine, you will pay higher service prices and besides your insurance will go through the roof, dont tell them and something happens and all your money has drained away.
i know its not what you probably want to hear but you will prolly understand as you go along . . . i was the same,

loud can
tinted screen
nice after market stuffand it will make you much happier about your sv if you ask me.

:D

[kcowgergmm]

how big can you bore the sv 1000 out to?

[$tevo]

http://www.terry-shep.f2s.com/tl1000s.html

I'm supposing that they'll do something similar for the SV1000?

[sv650nutter149]

ive heard from a mate that the thou engine fits in with a bit of squezing lol and wiring loom clips right in as well there we go problem sorted.....o and found out thers a supercharger for the thou!!!! hehehehe lil horns are out

[liam_j_harris]

ive spent the last few years as a bike mechanic and have riden everything from little 50's to the fastest of the fast, i havnt riden this years gixer thou yet but if its anything like last years(more power less weight this year methinks) you can't keep the front wheel down, you need a big road with a perfect surface before you can use any of what its got, im saying this from experience, not what iv'e read in magazines. the sv is so much easier to ride fast on the road, get them on the track and it would be a totaly different story.

on a different note......
putting the 1000cc motor in mite be an idea:p .....
anyone done it?
if so.....
are the mounts the same? does the chain sit right with the 160 wheel and swingarm?

[haggis]

Depends how you feel about hacking great lumps out of your nice frame.

The thou engine has the opposite layout to the 650, so the shock needs moving because the rear downpipe is in the way.

And that's just the start of your troubles. I think you're dreaming with this one mate. Don't worry - you're not the first!

[northwind]

There's someone on the forum here that's done it, or rather is endlessly in the process of doing it. And I remember one in Streetfighters' readers pages too, though IIRC they actually broke and rewelded the frame rather than simply cutting out the straps in the middle.

[SV650Racer]

ive spent the last few years as a bike mechanic and have riden everything from little 50's to the fastest of the fast, i havnt riden this years gixer thou yet but if its anything like last years(more power less weight this year methinks) you can't keep the front wheel down, you need a big road with a perfect surface before you can use any of what its got, im saying this from experience, not what iv'e read in magazines. the sv is so much easier to ride fast on the road, get them on the track and it would be a totaly different story.

on a different note......
putting the 1000cc motor in mite be an idea:p .....
anyone done it?
if so.....
are the mounts the same? does the chain sit right with the 160 wheel and swingarm?

Not quite right;) . The GSXR1000K5-K7 are actually very good and relativly easy to ride. They go as fast as you open the throttle!. Very stable too and at a ton plus down bumpy roads they are virtually perfect. Obviously if you have a lead right wrist then it will wheelie but thats down to poor throttle control IMHO.

My SV has been bored to 700cc and out at Jerez last year i put it on pole for a race which had GSXR750K6's and RSV milles in it. If you know what your doing and the SV is well setup then its more than a match for bigger bikes.

[petevtwin650]

besides your insurance will go through the roof, dont tell them and something happens and all your money has drained away.

:D


How would the insurance company know? Unless it was binned at an improbable speed.

Apart from possibly shortening the life of the engine, but they last to over 100,000 miles anyway, why should the servicing costs be any more than a 650?

Ducati get reliably 90/100 bhp out of the 750. Cambelts and electrics not withstanding. So 80/85 should be possible from a BB. Maybe!

[northwind]

If you know what your doing and the SV is well setup then its more than a match for bigger bikes.

Aye, but there's the rub... If you know what you're doing. Plus, there's a bit more to your bike than a big bore kit ;)

Question for you... If you were on a properly race prepped GSXR750 at broadly the same level of tune and spec as your race SV, would you not expect to be faster than you are on the SV?

[liam_j_harris]

maybe that will be summat to look at doing when me chops finnished then, mite even go all out and start from scratch with it and just use the existing geometry as a benchmark.
cheers peeps...:D

[northwind]

Apart from possibly shortening the life of the engine, but they last to over 100,000 miles anyway, why should the servicing costs be any more than a 650?


Lifespan's a bit tricky, an SV engine it seems will last 100-200 thousand miles before wear and tear gets it, or at least calls for heroic measures that aren't worth the cost. But, there's also a risk of what you could call premature failure- cranks or rods snapping, valvetrain dropping, rings disintegrating, loss of gears etc. More unpredictable, those, that's why one bike that last for quarter of a million miles or one that spits a valve at 10000 don't really tell you anything about lifespan or durability- and even if you got a rash of failures at low life after a big-bore, say, you never know the actual cause- it could have been a defect that would have led to a failure anyway.

Basically, cut a long story short, it's not as easy as taking 50% off a 100000 mile engine life, that'd be ace since most of us won't do that many miles ;) In fact, a 700cc motor could easily outlast many standard ones, because of the random factor.

[SV650Racer]

Aye, but there's the rub... If you know what you're doing. Plus, there's a bit more to your bike than a big bore kit ;)

Question for you... If you were on a properly race prepped GSXR750 at broadly the same level of tune and spec as your race SV, would you not expect to be faster than you are on the SV?


Maybe i would...maybe i wouldnt. I have seen a few people take the plunge and go slower on a bigger bike!. In fact my thing was to do Superstocks next year on a 750...as it can be ridden easier and quicker than the 1000. Proving that it isnt always horsepower..handling..flickability and the the ability to get on with and make the best of the bike you have. In fact i have doubts about changing..the sv is so awesome to ride..but anyways. The point was that the SV if you want to spec it up..instead of buying something else can be a real mean tool.

[northwind]

Maybe i would...maybe i wouldnt. I have seen a few people take the plunge and go slower on a bigger bike!. In fact my thing was to do Superstocks next year on a 750...as it can be ridden easier and quicker than the 1000. Proving that it isnt always horsepower.. handling..flickability and the the ability to get on with and make the best of the bike you have. In fact i have doubts about changing..the sv is so awesome to ride..but anyways. The point was that the SV if you want to spec it up..instead of buying something else can be a real mean tool.

Fair play, I suppose I hadn't looked at it quite that way, ability isn't an absolute is it? Some people find a bike that suits them and get better results out of less. Suppose that's me in fact! I just think of it as a preference for small bikes but I reckon I'd be quicker round knockhill on my own bike than on a new CBR or whatever, even with acclimatisation. Good point...

I get a bit narked at the people who're obsessed with making the SV more than it is, is all ;) Yes, you can build a 100bhp SV that weighs 150 kilos, and it'll beat any production 600. But then, you can overtune and underweight a 600 as well and we're just back to square one, but with lighter pockets.

[SV650Racer]

True..but making one of your favorite bikes...and tinkering late at night is all part of the fun!!!!!! :@>..plus i love it when you declare to someone it isnt a SV1000....and the look on their faces...makes it all worthwhile

[northwind]

True..but making one of your favorite bikes...and tinkering late at night is all part of the fun!!!!!! :@>..

Preaching to the choir ;) Ah, well, worse things happen to choirboys I suppose. I used to get asked if mine was a TL, back when it had the twin cans, that was good too. But more fun is asking someone on a trackday who's on a thou where they got the twins for their 650, then looking all surprised when they say it's a thou. "But... I overtook you twice!" :smt019

[John 675]

How would the insurance company know? Unless it was binned at an improbable speed.

Apart from possibly shortening the life of the engine, but they last to over 100,000 miles anyway, why should the servicing costs be any more than a 650?

Ducati get reliably 90/100 bhp out of the 750. Cambelts and electrics not withstanding. So 80/85 should be possible from a BB. Maybe!

It comes down to wether you tell them or not really, say for example your in an accident where the police need to be involved and your machine taken . . if you havent told them your not covered, not sure if thats driving without insurance too??

As for servicing, if you need some parts that have changed in the engine and the like your usuall service price shurely would go up, because it would not be the same amount of work to perform if all wasnt fine and dandy in the engine itself.

i got the info about the engine life being cut short by Northwind, but it makes sense that this work would put more stress on to the engine itself causing improper wear.

:) well thats my 50P on it anyway

[Viney]

im just after the extra grunt, they must be loadsa potential in there. im just trying to find it, After 8 years dont you think that whatever can be done has been done, tried, tested, blown up, wealded, broken, tywrapped etc etc?

A thou engine in a650 frame has i believe 3 examples. Check out those crazy yanks on SVRider.com

[northwind]

As for servicing, if you need some parts that have changed in the engine and the like your usuall service price shurely would go up, because it would not be the same amount of work to perform if all wasnt fine and dandy in the engine itself.


I reckon it's more a case of business as usual or it breaks :) The actual servicing is much the same, though there's some stuff that can happen like piston slap (the Wiseco pistons most folks use have very narrow rings, so they're very sensitive to the quality of machining, and also to wear, frinstance) but an awful lot of the things that do go wrong are pretty terminal and abrupt. Or at least, beyond economic repair for most, I know Sarah had a shell go bad and repaired it on the race bike but for most people it'd make more sense to replace the engine in that situation!

[Knaapie]

Sorry to dig up this old topic again. If you would like to mount a 700cc kit on the SV, does it matter how many mileage the bike/engine has done already? Not much of a mechanic myself, so I would reason it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. :) The cilinders are enlarged, so engine wear is eliminated... Or am I missing other important engine parts here?

[r4ce_e3nd]

Go for it ;)

I know someone who sells a 700cc Wiseco kit for a curvy, but that will propably not matter. He wanted to install it but he changed his mind.
Let me know...

[SV650Racer]

Go for it ;)

I know someone who sells a 700cc Wiseco kit for a curvy, but that will propably not matter. He wanted to install it but he changed his mind.
Let me know...

Knaapie worth a shot seeing how much this guy wants for it!!. It will fit yours:cool:

Mileage doesnt matter as long as the shells arent shot and the motors been run out of oil..!

[John Burt]

wot - you mean youve got to run the motor out of oil before you fit a big bore kit, me I'd just drin it out through the sump before taking it all apart - les chance of it wiping a shell.

[SV650Racer]

LOL!. No i meant hasnt been run out!.

[SoulKiss]

more fun is asking someone on a trackday who's on a thou where they got the twins for their 650, then looking all surprised when they say it's a thou. "But... I overtook you twice!" :smt019

You are a bad bad man Northy - Knew I liked you for a reason :P

[r4ce_e3nd]

He is asking €300 for the kit:

SV650 (S or N) 1999-04 - 694cc KIT
CK114
- 3mm oversize
- 3.268" or 84.00mm
- Stroke - 62.6mm
- Comp. Ratio 12.5:1
- Piston: 4696M08400
- Rings: 3307XC
- Piston Pins: S520 Retainer Clips: CW20
- Spring Steel Head Gasket: W5861

[Knaapie]

Knaapie worth a shot seeing how much this guy wants for it!!. It will fit yours:cool:

Mileage doesnt matter as long as the shells arent shot and the motors been run out of oil..!
Mmmm, this creates perspectives. I thought it was only advisable to do with an "out of the crate" engine, like was done with yours. As r4ce_e3nd wrote, the 700cc kit price is 300 euros. Good or bad? But uhm, what are shells?? And running out of oil hasn't happened as far as I know. Although I did have a low level on 2 or 3 occasions, but filled it up as soon as I noticed.

But as I told you, if I want to have an engine improvement I'd rather come over to you and Steve. And bringing my own stuff in that case is not that polite... ;) Besides, I would like to have other stuff done (f.e. lightening the crank, like you told me) to get a good, and more important for me a reliable result, which isn't going to be for free. :eek:

[Knaapie]

He is asking €300 for the kit:

SV650 (S or N) 1999-04 - 694cc KIT
CK114
- 3mm oversize
- 3.268" or 84.00mm
- Stroke - 62.6mm
- Comp. Ratio 12.5:1
- Piston: 4696M08400
- Rings: 3307XC
- Piston Pins: S520 Retainer Clips: CW20
- Spring Steel Head Gasket: W5861
Thanks for the info! Already spotted it on MF though. Also the reason for bringing this topic back alive, to get some info. ;)

[northwind]

Mmmm, this creates perspectives. I thought it was only advisable to do with an "out of the crate" engine, like was done with yours.

Nah... Obviously if the engine's tired it's not going to help, mind. And if it's suffered any loss of power or efficiency such as worn cam chains or damaged valve seats, then tuning it for power doesn't make an awful lot of sense unless you give it a full refresh at the same time (which a reputable tuner would, presumably). The SV engine's good for pretty huge mileages, assuming something nasty doesn't happen to it first, they don't really wear out in general use.

But really, the heavier pistons and higher power and heat stresses don't do much to everyday wear and tear, and the crank and rods don't get weaker in real terms over their lifespan, so a well used engine won't be significantly more vulnerable to the potential problems of a big bore than a brand new engine is.

[Knaapie]

Thanks Northwind. Decent and understandable story. :thumbsup:

[ejohnh]

Trying to get my head around this.. What does the basic extra 50cc give you?(assuming that the rest of the engine remains the same).

[northwind]

(huge post warning!)

More power all over... From that point of view it's ace, no replacement for displacement as they say. It's also fairly cheap to do, for what it is- compare the gains with £1000 worth of exhaust, induction and remapping and it's a no-brainer. A 700cc SV's a very nice thing indeed, lovely to ride slow or fast. You can get as much power with high comp, but not the midrange grunt. SO in terms of benefits, it's huge.

But there's no such thing as a free lunch- the pistons are heavier, and the explosions are bigger, which all creates more stress on the bottom end. Also the liners are thinner, which increases the risk of thermal stress failures. It's a matter of opinion how bad this is- SV650Racer's opinion is that it's safe, or near as, based on her experience. The opinion of people who've snapped a rod or crank after doing it tends to be that it's suicidal, and that you have to be an idiot to do it. When you get conflicting informed opinions, it's sensible to look in the middle ;)

But the trouble is, there's just not good facts out there to say exactly how great that risk is- some people will get tens of thousands of trouble free miles, others have the engine destroy itself beyond realistic repair within a few thousand. And the real downer is, that can happen to a totally standard engine, so even when you get a case like that you never know whether's it's because of the bigbore, or whether it's a manufacturing or mechanical defect, or poor maintenance, or just plain bad luck- engines break. SV650Racer had a shell fail, if memory serves, which they put down to a defect but which another person might have blamed on overstress, so even there there's room for interpretation.

Certainly, absolutely nobody's benchtested an SV engine with the Wiseco or JE bigbores to the extent that you need to, in order to really know the long term implications. Even the few people out there who've done this modification a large number times can't really say for sure- everyone develops their own impression which usually varies. Bike tuning's a maddeningly inexact science if you want solid answers ;)

Personally, I think it's nonsense to imply there's no risk, or that every failure's caused by some unconnected fault or flaw- there's just too many cases of bigbored SVs spitting their guts, and too many experienced tuners have seen it happen- sometimes to their own bikes. But then, it's equally nonsense to write it off as building a time bomb, since you do get some that'll run and run. It's all just about offsetting risk against reward, using educated guesses.

I decided against it- if I was racing I'd do it, and I might well do it for my spare engine if I ever rebuild it, but when you need reliability under road conditions, for tens of thousands of miles, I don't personally think it's a good option. I'm probably going to go with higher comp and lighter pistons, bit of give and take there.

Racers tend to have the conceit that race use is hardest on an engine, and that if a particular tune can survive extended race use then it can survive anything... That's where the highest short-term stresses are but a road bike can spend more time at peak power on a single long motorway trip than most race bikes will in their lifetime- the individual stresses are lower, but they go on for hours. (as anyone who's ridden up the M6 can testify!) It's like the difference between a knife would and a papercut, one knife wound's worse than one papercut but 1000 papercuts is generally worse than one knife wound ;) The stresses aren't really more or less for either, they're just different. Honda learned the error of high-stress testing engines with the VF750, it'd withstand anything for short durations but road use killed it.

You can build an SV bottom end to be extremely strong- Something like a Falicon crank and rods to suit. It'll cost you more than another SV though. There comes a point when, for most people, tuning becomes a mental illness.

I should just cut-n-paste my Big Bore Ramble to save time ;)

[chunkytfg]

Northwind really has hit the nail squarely on the head.

I personally have only experience of 700cc kits being raced and not used on the road(abeilt for short tripes) so cant comment on long term stresses I have seen sarahs bike be, in terms of things breaking, 100% reliable(and yes i'm aware the definition of breaking can be subjective) all the way to another bik ethat managed to be run in on the dyno and then spat in's guts on the first time it hit the trakc and then my bike in the middle which spat it's guts around the time it was due a refresh anyway.

One thing worth mentioning though is thats there are as many cases of minitwin engines spitting there guts as tuned SV engines going pop so it's hard to conclusively say yes the 700cc is bad.

There is no denying though that i have never heard of any 700 kits snapping cranks only rods(mine did this) and one holed a piston due to cheap nasty fuel and because of this mine has now been built with carrillo rods just to try and stop it happenieng again. Yes I nklow you could argue that what i'm now doing it transfering the weakness somewhere else in the engine but fingers crossed it survives and it will manage half of next year aswell before it needs a refresh.

I guess though there is no denying that anytuning will stess an engine more than an untuned one but thats true for any aspecxt and not just big bores. Even just fitting an exhaust will in theory add more stress to the eingine as it produces more HP than before. The only thing to stop you is how mcuh you are prepared to pay and wheather you consider it worth it. At the end of the day to get the best out of a 700cc kit you need the whole hog done and by the time you assume machine work and a decent 'zorst system such as the M4 or arrow you are probably looking at £2000 minimum. would it not be cheaper to just get an SV1000 and be done with it even assuming the £2000 helps with extra running costs and insurance.

Anyway. If you want the 700cc kit then go for it but remember. you will spend about £2000 getting done and your bike will probably be worth about £100 more because of it. If your okay with that then fine. if not dont bother and just get a bigger bike.

[ejohnh]

Thanks for the good reply Northwind.

I rode my standard naked SV K1 from Porthcawl to 440 miles into France in p*ssing rain on Aug 23 and back again on 28th. Coming back in the sun I was in the 80's/90's/100's all the way. The bike was rock sold except for one hissyfit on the way down when the front pot was misfiring with the wet and no Fen ext. I wouldn't feel at all happy about doing that if I had just increased the bore without ensuring that the rest of the engine could cope with the extra power.

ps I'll be posting about the the trip and where we stayed etc again.

[northwind]

There is no denying though that i have never heard of any 700 kits snapping cranks only rods(mine did this)

Best SV photo ever:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/Northwindlowlander/cranks.jpg

Not one of mine obviously, I only have 2 toasted cranks in my collection ;) This is a selection that Twin Works Factory pulled out of their scrap bin. The one that halved itself was bigbored, so was one of the ones with the break by the flywheel, though that's more a power stress than a weight stress. The rest are boring, spun bearings. One of 'ems not SV, no idea what it is, TL maybe.

[markmoto]

Save your money and get one of these;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/graphics/2007/04/21/mfbike2.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/04/21/nosplit/mfbike21.xml

nice :cool: 95 bhp sounds usefull

[chunkytfg]

Best SV photo ever:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/Northwindlowlander/cranks.jpg

Not one of mine obviously, I only have 2 toasted cranks in my collection ;) This is a selection that Twin Works Factory pulled out of their scrap bin. The one that halved itself was bigbored, so was one of the ones with the break by the flywheel, though that's more a power stress than a weight stress. The rest are boring, spun bearings. One of 'ems not SV, no idea what it is, TL maybe.

Fair enough. Now i have heard of a snapped crank in a big bore;). Be interesting to know if it is from a K3 though as wasnt it those that had the weak cranks?

[northwind]

Not sure... Couldn't tell you how to tell the different to be honest, I've never handled an injected engine below the pistons.

[BigBaddad]

Don't have a clue on this one, but personally I wouldn't risk it......if you're flat out (130mph) on a puplic road, then your asking for trouble. If I were you I'd spend £200 on the following

1. Rebuilding the forks,spring and oil to suit you.
2. Smaller front sproket (1 tooth less as on the naked)
3. R6 Throtle tube and matching grip of course.
4. Upgraded brake pads and fluid.
5. Do the retard removal thing.
6. Longer Dog Bones.
7. Ride, Ride and Ride some more...no substitute for experience.

I'm working on item 7 before trying any of the others.

[Alpinestarhero]

Don't have a clue on this one, but personally I wouldn't risk it......if you're flat out (130mph) on a puplic road, then your asking for trouble. If I were you I'd spend £200 on the following

1. Rebuilding the forks,spring and oil to suit you.
2. Smaller front sproket (1 tooth less as on the naked)
3. R6 Throtle tube and matching grip of course.
4. Upgraded brake pads and fluid.
5. Do the retard removal thing.
6. Longer Dog Bones.
7. Ride, Ride and Ride some more...no substitute for experience.

I'm working on item 7 before trying any of the others.

Seconded. You can go alot faster by sorting the budget suspension, and riding alot. Even just doing the forks with an ohlins spring kit will work wonders

And fitting good tyres

And riding lots

Matt

[SV650Racer]

Mmmm, this creates perspectives. I thought it was only advisable to do with an "out of the crate" engine, like was done with yours. As r4ce_e3nd wrote, the 700cc kit price is 300 euros. Good or bad? But uhm, what are shells?? And running out of oil hasn't happened as far as I know. Although I did have a low level on 2 or 3 occasions, but filled it up as soon as I noticed.

But as I told you, if I want to have an engine improvement I'd rather come over to you and Steve. And bringing my own stuff in that case is not that polite... ;) Besides, I would like to have other stuff done (f.e. lightening the crank, like you told me) to get a good, and more important for me a reliable result, which isn't going to be for free. :eek:

The kits over here are about £220. It doesnt matter if the engine is new or not to be honest. Shells are the liners that sit between the rod and the crank and will wear if the bike has been run low on oil. Just a low level wont cause any problems. TBH with the bore kit its worth looking at carillo rods as some stock rods can be weak. You put new shells in with these anyway.

Lightening and balancing the crank is well worth while for what your doing. They take about a kilo off which is massive!!.

BTW my failed shell was actually a twisted crankcase which was caused when the bearing was pressed into the case. Nothing to do with the engine being tuned..just pure bad luck!!! Also had an overheat but that was due to the head bolts stretching as they had been torqued a few times. Worth changing these for new ones everytime. In fact so far compared to a SS600 tuned motor mines been bloody good especially considering it has 18bhp more than stock in some places on the curve - a nice hooooge big fat mid range!!. Gawd i will miss this bike...the Superstock 600 feels flacid in comparison!!!

[northwind]

Lightening and balancing the crank is well worth while for what your doing. They take about a kilo off which is massive!!.

BTW my failed shell was actually a twisted crankcase which was caused when the bearing was pressed into the case. Nothing to do with the engine being tuned..just pure bad luck!!!

Ah, I'd wondered about that one, the original explanation didn't make an awful lot of sense tbh (though you guys would know better than someone who'd never seen the engine!) but the injected engines have a bit of a history of issues with the revised bearing setup, warps and cracks. Not much happens to SVs that hasn't happened before :p

With the crank lightening, I meant to ask you about that previously but I always forget. That's a lot to shed, are you taking it exclusively out of the crank and counterweights, or also the flywheel and maybe generator? Yours was total loss i think, are you counting that with it?

My big question is, was there any loss of usability from the lowered engine momentum... SHould spin up faster but also slow down faster, but that's just theory, doesn't mean anything in the real world.

Reason I ask is engine number 2's definately going to get its crank balanced when I get my act together and rebuild it (and maybe some other trickery) but I'm not sure of the pros and cons of going past that. With my main engine, I've always set the limits of tuning at pistons and upwards, so I've not always paid that much attention to what you can do with the bottom end (apart from blowing it up)

[SV650Racer]

The kilo is just off the crank. Its taken off the large flat surfaces and then holes are also drilled to aid the balance. IMHO it picks up alot quicker as the SV can be lazy uner load, especially with the big bore. We also took most of the windings off the genny making it lighter but it still charges at full rate as i didnt like the hassle with total loss. When the SV with high comp is hot it wont turn over unless the battery has full charge. Making a re start a nightmare should the race get stopped and then restarted.

I didnt notice any difference in engine braking though, but then again using the slipper clutch and prefering not to use the engine to brake the bike i probaly wouldnt notice anyway.

It reduces the load the crank has so is better for it in the long run. Very worthwhile if you have the motor apart. Worth looking at the ports too..things you can do there make alot of difference as stock they are very restricted.

[r4ce_e3nd]

I was wondering, because you talk about low oil level, what has happend to your engine if you start losing (burning) engine oil. Because mine does... It has already 70000 km's on it so maybee a revision of the engine should be a good thing, but what has to be replaced/checked to prevent it losing oil? Do I look at a great cost or not? Can I do it myself? (I have experience in replacing cam's)

And sorry for going off-topic, but with the knowledge we have here running in this topic my problem should be explained in 5 minutes. Not? ;)

[SV650Racer]

Generally at that mileage pistons and rings would benefit the engine. Its normally the rings loose in the bore that cause oil useage. My father in laws FZR1000 used alot of oil (they tend to anyway!)..but with new pistons and rings it halved the amount it consumed.

[r4ce_e3nd]

Thanks for the repley.
Am I right to say that I also loose a bit of compression with the bad pistonrings? Or will it only the oilrings be damaged?

[northwind]

I didnt notice any difference in engine braking though, but then again using the slipper clutch

Best sentence ever :)

Yeah, a bit of head work's a no brainer if you've got them off, not as much as with some older engines I think- every SV head I've seen is pretty tidy, not too much in terms of casting and edging, but the exhaust ports look like there's plenty of space for improvement.

Thanks for the info on the crank lightening, I shall file it in the back of my brain. Have you guys done the work on standard bore engines at all? Lightened flywheels and cranks quite often lead to complaints about poor idle, difficulties pulling away from a stop without using a ton of clutch (since the crank and flywheel weight all acts as an energy store... Likewise on/off engine characteristics because of the faster spin-down times. Not all an issue at all on track of course, but I've not found a road perspective for this in the SV, so I wonder if you've any thoughts specific to this stuff (other than engine braking of course!)

[northwind]

I was wondering, because you talk about low oil level, what has happend to your engine if you start losing (burning) engine oil. Because mine does... It has already 70000 km's on it so maybee a revision of the engine should be a good thing, but what has to be replaced/checked to prevent it losing oil? Do I look at a great cost or not? Can I do it myself? (I have experience in replacing cam's)


I'd also maybe be pointing a finger at the valve seals... 70000km isn't really big miles for the SV though, depends on use of course. How much oil are you actually burning? Any sign of smoke in the exhaust?

What might make economic sense for you, would be to find yourself a working top end- SV engines with wobbly big end bearings are dead easy to find, you can buy them very cheaply in otherwise good condition if you shop around and are patient. Then, just swap the heads, barrels and pistons entirely- replaces the 3 main culprits, bores rings and valves. It'd cost you a couple of sets of new gaskets too, and it's DIYable, though not exactly simple. You'd need to be careful of how it was stored though- the bores are cast iron, so if they're not well protected and water gets in it's game over.

[Robw#70]

I took a different route with mine, going on the theory a replacement std motor can be bought for less than the cost of gaskets, shells etc when doing the bottom end.

it had done about 7k i think when i fitted 700cc, flowed heads, inj cams and flatslides, after a full season + it still makes the same as svracers and the flats give it a bit more torque and bottom end drive.

its just the gamble of not lunching the topend if it does let go.

[chunkytfg]

I took a different route with mine, going on the theory a replacement std motor can be bought for less than the cost of gaskets, shells etc when doing the bottom end.

it had done about 7k i think when i fitted 700cc, flowed heads, inj cams and flatslides, after a full season + it still makes the same as svracers and the flats give it a bit more torque and bottom end drive.

its just the gamble of not lunching the topend if it does let go.

Pssst! You forgot to mention it's for sale?

:rolleyes::-):D

[Robw#70]

cheers, just need to remember where i left it, not seen it for a while ;)

[svsdutch]

Sorry to dig up this old topic again. If you would like to mount a 700cc kit on the SV, does it matter how many mileage the bike/engine has done already? Not much of a mechanic myself, so I would reason it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. :) The cilinders are enlarged, so engine wear is eliminated... Or am I missing other important engine parts here?

speaking of digging:cool:
i'm the one who ultimately bought it and had it placed.
also had a powercommander installed and i'm happy with the result.
bhp 82, torque 74 an increase of resp. 5 and 9.:o

just one thing is wondering me, the top-speed has decreased with about 15-20 km.
any of you have an idea why?

[yorkie_chris]

It comes down to wether you tell them or not really, say for example your in an accident where the police need to be involved and your machine taken . . if you havent told them your not covered, not sure if thats driving without insurance too??

As for servicing, if you need some parts that have changed in the engine and the like your usuall service price shurely would go up, because it would not be the same amount of work to perform if all wasnt fine and dandy in the engine itself.

Whats the chances of them measuring the bores? (unless you put a big SVR700 sticker on it...)

Service price is the same, I would be tempted to reduce oil change intervals slightly though.




This is something which I've been mulling over, as I've a spare engine or 2 kicking about...
What about the JE 84mm pistons for the busa? They're cheaper than a set of 84mm wisecos meant for the SV, and you get 4 of them.

[northwind]

IIRC they're heavy, and you still need the gaskets (oh, to answer your question on SVR it was http://www.wiseco.co.uk/. I got that price ages ago though)

[markmoto]

Very interesting reading fellas ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Is that sarcasm or what? :-P

[markmoto]

Is that sarcasm or what? :-P

No way i was being 100% serious :)

[yorkie_chris]

IIRC they're heavy, and you still need the gaskets (oh, to answer your question on SVR it was http://www.wiseco.co.uk/. I got that price ages ago though)

Figured you'd need gaskets anyway.

Does the head gasket protruding into combustion chamber prove a problem when overbored?

Anyone know how heavy they are compared to stock?

p.s my main worry is compression ratio, I don't want to have to run it on methanol! (as much as I like the smell lol)

[northwind]

I haven't a clue about the gaskets tbh, it sounds like a horrible bodge to have 'em sticking out though. Can they be cut down?

[yorkie_chris]

Trimmed I spose, only 1.5mm each way... (famous last words)

[zadar]

Figured you'd need gaskets anyway.

Does the head gasket protruding into combustion chamber prove a problem when overbored?

Anyone know how heavy they are compared to stock?

p.s my main worry is compression ratio, I don't want to have to run it on methanol! (as much as I like the smell lol)
gaskets are bigger for pistons.
they are heavier than stock.
you need to measure to know exact compression ratio.just like stock is not what it say is.
ps.stay away from 3mm over.

[LEXINGTONONE]

ps.stay away from 3mm over.

What do you mean by this Zadar, is 3mm over the 700 bore or not ? I am considering wiseco big bore pistons for my K6 SV, looking for the 700 pistons as I had the 700 wiseco kit on my old curvy SV and found it to be a great improvement, also on issue of reliability I did then change oil and filter every 1500 miles (approx) using the best oil I could buy, went to france on it as a 700 (also with cams, exhaust, airbox/filter mods, ignition advancer, flowed heads, dynojet stage 3) and found it to be a brilliant bike for the trip, did lots of miles after that on it without any reliability issues, sold it at a big loss still as sweet as a nut.

[yorkie_chris]

ps.stay away from 3mm over.

Thin liners become a problem? Or something else?

[LEXINGTONONE]

I have checked and it is the 700 pistons that are 3mm oversize, what is the problem with a 3mm overbore, can remember from my last big bore SV that there seemed to be enough left on liner, on the big bore subject does anyone know of any other pistons (apart from wiseco), maybe some that are cheaper (but dont want to compromise on quality), have heard that hayabusa pistons give more capacity and higher compression, any advice welcome before I take the plunge !

[zadar]

yes,liners are problem,to thin when you bore it to 3 over.
it is ok on street bike at normal pace.but if you riding at normal pace why you need 3mm over?:)
on track liners get hot spot and distort.they get out of round first time you get motor to hot.
you also putting more stress on rods and crank bearings since pistons are heavier.
2mm over is little better option.

[LEXINGTONONE]

I think wiseco do 2mm over that are also higher compression than the 3mm over (12.5 as opposed to 12 to 1) would you recommend that then ? as for reason to do big bore I found my old SV was much stronger through rev range, particularly liked the big helping of torque that it seemed to give it by going the 700 (3mm) route but suppose that could have been due to higher comression etc ?

[zadar]

I like less compression and pump fuel.
there is a lot of ways to get more power,big bore is very low on my list.

[svsdutch]

just one thing is wondering me, the top-speed has decreased with about 15-20 km.
any of you have an idea why?

anybody has an answer to my problem?:smt102

[northwind]

It's either not running right, or it's been downgeared at the same time, I reckon.

[yorkie_chris]

It's either not running right, or it's been downgeared at the same time, I reckon.

+1

[svsdutch]

It's either not running right, or it's been downgeared at the same time, I reckon.


i'm sorry, how do you mean downgeared? the cog from de chain you mean?
that's original 15 front 44 back. the bike is ajusted by dynojet http://www.tovami.com/
and a powercommander is build in as well?

82 bhp and 74 nm as result

[northwind]

Yep, that's one of the 2 things that can explain it- either the bike's downgeared on how it was before, or it's not pulling as had as it should. Is it still revving out in top?

[zadar]

i'm sorry, how do you mean downgeared? the cog from de chain you mean?
that's original 15 front 44 back. the bike is ajusted by dynojet http://www.tovami.com/
and a powercommander is build in as well?

82 bhp and 74 nm as result
do you have R6 throttle tube?

[svsdutch]

do you have R6 throttle tube?

no, throttle is original...why?

[zadar]

because it needs to be modified on s model or throttle is not opened all the way.

[svsdutch]

because it needs to be modified on s model or throttle is not opened all the way.
ok?, you know what, thats just the feeling that i get, its just goes op to about 215 on the clock, and then just stops, as if i'm not going full throttle:smt087

[svsdutch]

Is it still revving out in top?
what do you mean by revving out?
i'm sorry, i know nothing, i'm from Barcelona, Holland:bom:

[yorkie_chris]

Revving out is reaching rev limiter (10,200rpm or something close to that) in top gear.